Transcript of AE 1053 - The Goss: Pandas Need to Be Uncomfortable to Have Sex

G'day, you mob. Pete here, and this is another episode of Aussie English. The number one place for anyone and everyone wanting to learn Australian English. So, today I have a Goss' episode for you where I sit down with my old man, my father, Ian Smissen, and we talk about the week's news whether locally down under here in Australia or non-locally overseas in other parts of the world.

Okay, and we sometimes also talk about whatever comes to mind, right. If we can think of something interesting to share with you guys related to us or Australia, we also talk about that in The Goss'. So, these episodes are specifically designed to try and give you content about many different topics where we're obviously speaking in English and there are multiple people having a natural and spontaneous conversation in English.

So, it is particularly good to improve your listening skills. In order to complement that, though, I really recommend that you join the podcast membership or the academy membership at AussieEnglish.com.au, where you will get access to the full transcripts of these episodes, the PDFs, the downloads, and you can also use the online PDF reader to read and listen at the same time.

Okay, so if you really, really want to improve your listening skills fast, get the transcript, listen and read at the same time, keep practising, and that is the quickest way to level up your English. Anyway, I've been rabbiting on a bit, I've been talking a bit. Let's just get into this episode, guys. Smack the bird and let's get into it.

Alrighty, guys. G'day, and welcome to this episode of The Goss'.

Hey, everyone.

Dad and I were just having a rant about stubbies.

You're going to have to do it now.

I have to show the stu- I've got a stubby holder here, which is from when I did turtle research in Queensland. And then if I pull a beer out of it...

...Queensland turtle research...

I know, surprise.

No information added there.

There's a beer here that is actually called stubby, and it's in a stubby. Yeah. So, a stubby is a short stout, glass bottle of beer as opposed to a long neck, which would be a really large, probably the size of, what, a 1.25 litre...

750ml.

But it'll be about that size.

But it's tall. Yeah.

Yeah.

But they have that slender neck. Sorry. Not much point in me doing hand actions down here where you can't see it on the camera, is it? A slender sort of neck. Yeah.

So, we are going to be covering the article, "The Bear Truth". This one is from...

Pandas.

...The Guardian. Actually, it's not "The Bear Truth", I opened up the actual scientist's review on The Guardian here. So, too much of a good thing- Too much of a good home is bad for panda mating, says scientists. Success...

And they are full of shit.

I don't know. I found it really interesting...

Oh, it's interesting. I am sce- I'm having a sceptical day...

Just constantly shitting on everyone's scientific... (both talking)

...Dad's just like, nah, it's garbage.

No, it's- Well, I'll give you my explanation afterwards, but I actually like The Guardian's story.

...Cover the story first, you can't Just let me introduce it and dad's just like, it's all shit.

...I'll let you introduce it. But I'm going to- I'm going to put my- I like the- Because you've jumped straight over The Guardian story, but I actually like it because it's done in the form of an interview.

Yeah. Okay.

So, it's not just a journalist telling the story. The journalist is interviewing this 18-year-old male panda and saying, well, why the..., you know.

Well, do you want to read a bit of it? You've got it in front of you. I've got the other one open here.

Name: Panda Sex. That's an interesting name, anyway. Sorry for looking away from the screen here, I'm reading on another screen. Age: eighteen-year-old male. Frequency: famously rare. Yes. Why is that? If I were a panda, I'd be at it all the time. Here is we have the first problem. The first problem is that if the population is low, there is an assumption that individuals are going to want to reproduce to save the species.

That is totally unscientific, and it is one of those myths that keeps getting propagated up, you know, for the good of the species. No individual ever does anything for the good of the species, except maybe humans and mostly we screw that up, so.

Yeah. So, that's a good little expression there, though "to be at it". That means quite a few things, doesn't it?

Yeah, but it usually means one thing.

Well, you could use this for like work. So, I'm going to go back to the shed and I'm going to get back at it. Yeah.

...Lawn. Well, have at it.

Yeah, exactly. To be at something is to be, I guess, like literally at that thing, right.

Doing it.

In front of that thing and then doing it. But it can mean- It can also mean to have sex.

"At" is typically a location-based pronoun.

Yeah. But you could say that I went camping and, you know, these campers had their- The fly of their tent open and they were going at it. They were having at it. They were doing it right there. Yeah. So, what have we got here? Researchers now think that pandas notoriously low libido is because they are too comfortable to make the effort to search for a mate.

A study published in Conservation Biology has suggested that if pandas find the perfect habitat in this instance, a cool, moderately low-lying area rich with bamboo and far from humans. Then they will be happil- Then they will just happily settle down and not go anywhere. The study, based on models combined with genetic analyses of panda poop in Wolong Nature Reserve in China.

So, the study suggests that while functional connectivity or gene flow increases as a proportion of habitat within a landscape rises, it declines when the proportion exceeds 80%. So, I guess in normal English, that would be gene flow here is obviously the flow of your DNA across generations or across space.

And he's- They're saying that if the functional connectivity increases as the proportion of habitat with the landscape rises, so the more habitat there is, the more gene flow there is, meaning that there's more reproduction going on, individuals are moving around. But they said once you get past 80% or I guess comfort in terms of the quality of the landscape, the animals don't move as much anymore.

So, that gene flow takes a hit, and you get less gene flow, right, you get less individuals moving around. So, the crux of the story was effectively that researchers need to-

Well, conservation managers and everything need to make sure that the habitat is at sort of 80% optimal capacity or quality or comfort so that individual pandas are forced to move around in order to find mates and want to interbreed, you know, want to have sex, want to reproduce, everything like that, whereas if they get comfortable, they'll just sit in the same spot and they may still breed.

But if your individuals are staying there and you're having offspring that are also staying in the same location, that's obviously going to become a problem with inbreeding and everything.

So, ideally, most species want to be sort of mixing it up as much as they can across the distribution that they're found in in order to maintain, you know, good genetic diversity. So, you don't end up with a really, really inbred population where everyone's related to everyone else really closely, like cheetahs.

The challenge I have, and this- And I haven't read the actual paper...

Neither have I.

...I've just assumed what I've taken out of the little interview with the panda here, which is...

...Goes down a bottle neck. It goes from the science into a journalist and then it goes out to the rest of the world. And you're taking on what a journalist has decided to write up as clickbait news articles.

Exactly. The challenge I have with the- Potentially that I have with the science because, you know, a huge disclaimer here, I haven't read the actual article. If what we are being represented as is, that article means, though, the challenge I have with it is that there is a chicken and an egg problem here. Because I could come up with an equally valid reason for pandas not wanting to have sex, and that is...

It hurts for them...

I Know, and that this is a biological based one, not just a hypothetical. And this is the chicken and egg problem is that they- Female pandas have extremely low oestrus cycles. They go into oestrus, that is, they are reproductively active...

Yeah.

...Once a year for about two or three days.

Wow. Okay.

Therefore, there is no need to have sex.

Outside of that window...

Outside of that window. There's no urge to, unlike many other animals where things like primates and rodents, and things where you can be having sex constantly because you're constantly likely to get, you know, females, that are likely to get pregnant, whereas there is zero reason when an animal is not in oestrus in this case.

So, for the other 362 or 3 days a year for male pandas to be running around looking for female pandas or the reverse, or male pandas to be fighting other male pandas to get to the female and so on, because it's pointless.

They can't impregnate a female...

They can't impregnate them anyway. Therefore, it is all just negative energy. You are just using up energy for no reproductive output.

And it could be dangerous if you're fighting with other males for nothing.

So, the question I have is, which came first? Did the low oestrus mean, you know, long oestrus cycle and very small window of reproductive activity cause them to be like this? Or is the fact that they are like that mean that they only are going to have that long oestrus cycle? It's chicken or egg, so any other interpretation of it has to be done in that context, so.

I think, though, it's pretty interesting in terms of what you do when trying to rehabilitate environments for species. That's where it's going to have invocations.

...Biology point of view.

Yeah, because...

...Assume the existing reproductive behaviour and reproductive physiology of the animal and what can we do to potentially enhance the environment that will increase the likelihood of success. I agree with that, but...

Yeah.

...But the article is sort of done as well. They don't have sex because they don't want to, is missing the point that they actually don't need to.

Well, or they, yeah, they don't have that biological urge to, but for a certain small window of time. But they are notoriously difficult to get to breed, especially in captivity, right?

Oh yeah, yeah. Well, lots of animals are. It took for more than a century to work out with reproductive- Captive reproductive attempts for elephants, for instance, in zoos to know that a female elephant simply will not come into oestrus unless there are other female elephants around.

Wow, they didn't...

You can have a male and a female sitting around together forever, they can be as friendly as you like, but she's never going to get pregnant because they just don't ovulate, unless there are other females around.

And I'm sure there is a lot of research done now as to why and what the value of that is, but the reality is these are herd animals and for a single female elephant to- A single couple, so a male and female elephant, it's goi- It takes a village to raise a child...

That was going to be my point. I was going to say it's probably very, very dangerous for you to be a lone elephant that's pregnant and then has to raise a child where even...

Two elephants are never going to do it.

Even if you're able to grow the baby, find enough resources on your own and then give birth, the baby is probably not going to survive. So, whatever genes selected for you to be out on your own if there were genes that aren't going to be passed on to the next generation, and that's not going to happen where there's going to be selection for you to be an independent lone animal, right. Like there are plenty of cats like that.

Exactly.

Apparently, with lions, one of the things I was learning about recently is they think that they became social animals, especially the females, in order to protect their cubs from being killed by other males.

Yes.

Although it still is a big part of their biology, where males will come into a, you know, if a male defeats another male, he'll come into the pride and take over. And if there are any babies, he'll effectively go and kill them.

Yeah.

Or eat them, which, you know, involves killing them. But in order to bring the females back into oestrus as quickly as possible to be able...

So, that he can have his babies. Yeah. He doesn't want to be hanging around looking after some other males' babies...

Yeah.

...From an evolutionary point of view. Well, he probably doesn't even know why, right? He'll just be like; these things don't smell like me.

...This is not a conscious thing of him going, shit, I'm not looking after- I've just beaten-up Fred, I don't want to look after his kids. But it's this evolutionary thing that there is no value to a male lion to come in take over a pride and then only hang around looking after, you know, other people's baby lions.

Well, and the only time they do that is when they're closely related to the other males...

When their brothers.

...They'll be effectively either brothers or maybe even, yeah, three of them that are brothers. They'll usually be very closely related, who end up sharing a pride, if you will, because obviously genetically, they're passing on each other's genes as well as...

You know, you're 50% as successful if you're raising your brother's children as if you're raising your own...

Yeah.

...In terms of, you know, passing your genes on. The irony is from, you know, this is sort of getting off onto another track, but, and a lot of human cultures have this as well, is that the best possible relationship is for a male to be looking after his sister's children. Because it is certain that he is related to them.

Again, though, under the assumption that both he and his sister are definitely from the same mum.

Yeah. Well, yeah, assume that you got the same mother then, which means, you know, sister. and it doesn't even have to be the same father, then you are genetically related, which means you have to be genetically related to her children... (both talking)

...To your own children, so.

Exactly. Sneaky, sneaky.

It is.

It's true that humans have a really interesting reproductive cycle or reproductive biology too, because we I think are one of these only primates where when women come into oestrus, when they're fertile, when they're ovulating, it's hidden, right.

There are a lot of these- That's why women actually have breasts, you know, 24/7, all year round is usually with other animals, other primates, I think they only get breasts, they only develop the breast tissue and the obviously the milk and everything...

Yeah. Lots of animals do.

...When they're pregnant, right. Like with a dog, you won't see female dogs running around with breasts or nipples or teats. But when they're pregnant, you see them.

And that was the interesting thing with human biology when I was learning about that, that women have breasts and big hips and everything constantly in order to hide when they are ovulating so that they have much more control over who ends up being the actual father of their children.

Whereas ironically, our closest relatives, chimpanzees that is completely different for. Female chimpanzees when they are ovulating it is quite obvious that they are because they get big pink swellings around their backsides.

Yeah.

So, it's obvious. And gorillas are like humans, there's no, you know, you can't tell when a female gorilla is, you know, ovulating and ready to reproduce. So, yeah, and you'd look at it and say all three species are large social primates. So, what's the difference between them?

And from an evolutionary point of view, clearly, the chimpanzee thing works, and the gorilla and human thing works, so there's no huge evolutionary advantage to be, you know, to be only one.

But, you know, subtle differences in our social structures and so on mean that, you know, in case- you're right, in the case of humans, females have much more control over who they mate with than in chimpanzees they don't care, you know, it's just any male will do.

Well, yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's crazy. And a lot of the time, I think, isn't it with bonobos and everything where they'll use sex as a way of bonding, too, with one another.

Gibbons are the same.

Yeah.

Gibbons will- Gibbons and bonobos par- Bonobos...

Yes.

...Chimpanzee. They're often called...

Culturally different, right? Well, they're probably biologically different, too, but they're very different in terms of...

They're closest to humans in terms of, you know, that structure. But yeah, bonobos and gibbons, again, another ape, but small apes in this case. Well, when they bond, typically pair bond in the case of gibbons, and they will have sex all the time, you know, it's not- They have sex for enjoyment and for social bonding with a mate as much as they do to reproduce...

It's like dolphins.

...Humans clearly do the same thing.

...Dolphins do the same thing, you know.

I would, too if I was a dolphin and I didn't have any arms.

Yeah. Well, exactly. What else are you going to do?

Anyway, that's probably enough for this episode, guys.

Yeah, that was an interesting start off, wasn't it?

It ended on a happy note.

We did. Dolphin sex.

Thanks for joining us and we'll see you next time, guys.

Don't know if we can top this one.

Alrighty, you mob. Thank you so much for listening to or watching this episode of The Goss'. If you would like to watch the video if you're currently listening to it and not watching it, you can do so on the Aussie English Channel on YouTube. You'll be able to subscribe to that, just search "Aussie English" on YouTube.

And if you are watching this and not listening to it, you can check this episode out also on the Aussie English podcast, which you can find via my free Aussie English podcast application on both Android and iPhone. You can download that for free, or you can find it via any other good podcast app that you've got on your phone. Spotify, podcast from iTunes, Stitcher, whatever it is.

I'm your host, Pete. Thank you so much for joining me. I hope you have a ripper of a day, and I will see you next time. Peace!