Transcript of AE 1083 - Interview: The Ups and Downs of Raising Two Bilingual Children with Kel Smissen

Guys, how's it going? Hi, Kelly.

Hello.

We just recorded a Christmas academy module for members of the academy. So, this is, you know, content in there for learning Australian English and we were talking about Christmas. But Kel's, just like- As soon as we finish that Kel's like, oh, I've got another 30 minutes before I want to go to sleep. Do you want to talk about something else? So, here we are. What do you want to chat about, Kel?

It's just because I- We don't have time to do this anymore. I remember we had, you know, we would record videos quite often together...

Well, back by popular demand, Kel. People want to hear about you, they don't want...

I just don't have time anymore. So, you know, 30 minutes before I go to bed...

I'll have to look up when the last episode was.

I have no- I don't even remember. Maybe when Joey was born, I remember talking about her birth.

Well, maybe that's what we talk about. What's the...

...9 months ago, sorry.

What's the update? How's stuff with the kids? Maybe that can be the theme of this episode where we talk about, I don't know, what it's like having two kids, raising them, bilingualism, how that's going, dealing with the terrible twos with Noah.

...Having a full-on high needs, baby.

Yeah. So, I guess if the last one was the birth of Joanna, and you were talking about the difficulties...

(inaudible)

Yeah, I know because she was under-weight, under size. So, do you want to give an update on her health and everything?

So, just, yeah, briefly, she at 28- 28 weeks we found out she was a small baby...

And she wasn't growing anymore.

...And because of that, we had to keep an, you know, close- Like just watch the pregnancy from there on until the end...

So, almost every single week you were getting scans.

I was in hospital every week, twice a week for monitoring just to make sure she was, you know, her heartbeat was okay, she was getting enough oxygen and everything. So, that was quite stressful. And then she was born, which was an adventure itself. You couldn't be there, you got sick.

I had gastro from Day-Care, Day-Care that Noah was at had had an outbreak. I think it was an outbreak all around this area, and I ended up puking...

It was ridiculous.

...Puking my guts out.

Because you had been sick for like much earlier in the day, like from like, I don't know, mid-morning...

I don't- Yeah.

But, you know, I wasn't expecting to give birth...

No.

...Any time soon. I mean...

Well, that day.

...Yeah.

It was probably within the next week or two that you were going to have Joanna.

So, yeah, my waters broke...

We were just like...

...And then I just went to the bath. I felt something that felt like a kick, the baby had kicked, but it was really- It was quite, I wouldn't say, painful, but a bit uncomfortable...

Well, because it would have been a rupture of the...

...Even did, I was like, whoa, she's going crazy. We were both in bed and you were just like shivering and feeling sick.

It was good fun.

...I was like, all right. I just went to the bathroom to brush my teeth. And I was like, oh, oh no. I remember that my water's broke, because with Noah my waters broke as well early in the morning. Anyway, so I went to the hospital with my grandmother.

No. With your mother-in-law.

Sorry. Yes...

With Noah's grandmother.

...Grandmother is in Brazil.

Yeah. Noah's grandmother.

Too much wine. With my mother-in-law, went to the hospital, anyway...

I was like, mum, you've got to go with Kel because I can't make it. She needs to be with someone.

...Love you to, you know, see your daughter being born and like, I really wanted you to be there. It was really special having your mum there because it was like this, it was our little thing. It was something that she will remember forever.

Well, that's what I thought. I thought, you know, as much as I would have loved to have been there, it was obviously impossible. Even if I felt up to going the hospital wouldn't have allowed me in. But I was glad that my mum had the ability to go.

It was really nice that she was there, and she was amazing. She was- Poor thing, at some point I was just holding her from her, like, what do you call this?

Shirt?

No. This part here, that on the neck like this.

I don't know.

Anyway, I was just holding her clothes, like, really, really intensely, poor thing. And she was amazing, she was great support. Anyway, so Joey's born and it's been hard. Not going to lie.

Uh huh. And so, you give the update, yeah, so she was born, everything was fine. She was pretty quiet for the first few weeks, maybe the first month.

Yeah, and she wouldn't breastfeed.

No.

She was- It was a combination of her being so small that she didn't have the strength to suck and to be like, you know, to keep going with the on the breast, and me being so tired that I just found that I can just give her formula. And I'm not ashamed of saying that because...

Well, you still pumped breast milk and gave her the breast milk, but you had to use a bottle.

...Exclusively. And then it got me to a point where I'm like, this is a full-time job. It's like, I just can't keep doing this, this is impossible. Yeah, but it's not hard just because she is- We have two kids, which is like, if you have two kids, you know, it's really, really hard, but because she's a very...

Needy.

...Needy, clingy sort of baby, her personality is like she wants to be on us, especially on me the whole day non-stop. And you had a taste of it today trying to change...

Kel snuck off for half an hour to go to the shops.

I needed to breathe.

And I was trying to change Noah's nappy, he'd done a poo...

And she was...

...She was just on top of me, yeah, wouldn't let me go and I'm like, I just need to do this. Can you just play with the toys Joanna? And she wanted to crawl up on top of me and I'm like, just let me finish wiping Noah's bum.

...It's been really challenging for me. She doesn't- All the things I was afraid when Noah was tiny that, oh my god, I can't let this happen. Those things happen with Joey.

And you haven't had a full night's sleep since she's been born.

No. I have broken sleep.

You probably four hours at a time max.

Yes. And some nights are better than others, when I get four hours in a row, I'm like, great. I feel better.

Well, like the other night she woke up at 2am, didn't she? And you were like, oh my god.

Yeah. But she wakes up like, it's inevitable.

It's normally, 11:00 o'clock, she goes down at about 6:00 and she gets up at about 11:00.

You know, because...

I come out here watching TV shows, because you're sleeping. Yeah, and then I hear her crying and you get up and I just hear the door open and close. And it's so hard I want to do more, but at the same time Kel's sort of in her rhythm and just is used to doing what she's doing. And so, it is hard.

...The thing is, you can help me. You...

I help in other ways.

...In so many other ways that- And when I can't handle it anymore, you take over. It happened a few times that she's loud.

You had hearing loss for a little while because Joanna's scream, her crying scream was so loud and you'd when you were trying to hold her to calm her down, she would obviously be close to your ears. You had hearing loss because of it.

And I still sometimes, although I got used to it, sometimes I feel dizzy. Like I was telling you the other day that I put her down in her cot. She just screamed at me, and I felt really, it was like in the middle of the night, I just felt so dizzy I had to sit down.

Yeah.

Anyway, so yeah. And then dealing with Noah's tantrums hasn't been fun.

Yeah. So, Noah's hit his terrible twos, we call it in English. The terrible twos is where they get to the age of about probably 18 months to 2 and they start throwing tantrums, spitting the dummy, like losing their shit...

Yeah...

...Over nothing. And that's the frustrating thing with Noah, a lot of the time he'll be fine one second and then the next he's trying to play with something, doesn't go the way he wants, and so he throws it down, screams. Yeah. And you're just like, whoa. Just take it easy.

...The main trigger when he wants, let's say, a car to do something specific, and the car, obviously the toy doesn't work this way, or he can't manage to do it by himself and he gets really frustrated. And I- We try and be calm and like, you know, guide him and be like, it's okay, let's try again. But yeah, he just screams the house down. It's just hard.

I know, and it's so brutal. I didn't appreciate that until we had kids because it's not- You can deal with one of those at a time, I think like if you- If anyone just brought a child to you and the child was just losing it, you'd be like, okay, I got it.

But if it's happening multiple times a day, every single day for months at a time, you get to a point of just being like, this is I can see why people, you know, just lose it at their kids at times, you know. Because I remember being young and you walk through Woolworth's, you know, you'd go to Woollies, to the supermarket and you'd see kids lose it.

And the parents would just be like, (scream), you know, the parents would just snap, and you'd be like, whoa, they're psychos. Like, how can they not just control it? It's just a kid, la la la. And then, but you don't know what's happening, everything, yeah, behind the scenes where the kids constantly at them, at them, at them.

It's really hard to help him regulate himself when we are so tired.

That's...

Speaking for myself. Like, I find it really hard when I can't sleep at night and the next day, he's so intense, I find it really hard to deal with him. Although I prefer dealing with him than dealing with Joey.

Really?

Yeah, I'm not- I like to negotiate with him. And like...

Well, you can negotiate with him.

Yes, I can negotiate with him, I can talk to him. And he doesn't fully understand sometimes, but he gets most things. Whereas with her, she just screams and I'm like, I need to pass this baby to... (inaudible) But, you know, yeah, Noah has been difficult, although it's kind of proportional when he's sweet, it's just like, oh.

I think they do that, right. They- There's- They- It's evolved so that they're two limits kind of balance one another, or you would just leave the child, you know, in the forest to be eaten by a tiger. You would just be like, nah, I'm not dealing with this.

He's really sweet when he is in a good mood and he's, you know, willing to cooperate and do the things. He's adorable, and that gives you this like- It's just like some air, some fresh air when just when you need it, and you're about to lose it and he does something really sweet, and you're just like, okay, I can do another day.

It's almost abuse at the same time...

It is abusive.

...He'll be like on you, whingeing, crying, just breaking things, screaming for the entire day. And then all of a sudden, he'll say, dada play outside? And you'd be like, I have all of this anger that has been built up over the day that I just don't want to play with you, mate, you know, but then you will, you know, you go out there and play and you'll be like, all right.

But you're just like, this is insane. It's like being in an abusive relationship where the person is just hitting you constantly. And then at the end of the day he's just like, oh, by the way, I love you. Your just like, Oh, my God.

Yeah. It is hard. I think- Yeah, I wasn't expecting it to be so hard having 2.

It is funny how much you just get used to it, though, because it does build up over time slowly. It's not like you just get thrown into the fray all of a sudden. Now I, although some days, are just chaos. I know we have some sort of rhythm with them, even when I'm with them, by myself, I know how things will go.

Sort of like, yes, there'll be tantrums and crying and screaming, and I'll be like, I just want a break, I just lock myself in the bathroom and like, give me five minutes.

But I know- I sort of know how to handle them now, and, yeah, I think I got used to it very quickly. Just survival mode. But I remember the first time I had them by myself. Just, you know, Noah was having a horrible day, and Joey was as usual, screaming. I had to call my neighbour. I called my neighbour, my friend...

Uh, Bridget. Yeah.

...Was like, can you just please pop in? I just need someone else here. You know when you feel so scared and you need an adult around, it's like, I just need someone. And she came in and yeah, it was just really hard. And from there- From that day, I was like, it just got better and better and better. And some days things just flow nicely and we handled it- I loved the other day we just took- Did you see how we took turns dealing with the crying?

I don't remember.

I got- I handled the first meltdown Noah had. And it was just like early in the day, I was, you know, I had my- My trains were full and I was like, I got this. By three o'clock, I was like...

Tap out.

...Get this child away from my eyesight. I do not want to see his face. And you took over and you handled it like beautifully. And we were just like, go team.

Yeah, I know. Well, I guess that's, you know, you have to just learn that rhythm. And I think I saw that you were, you know, at your limit, at your wits end.

When you see me screaming it's just like, Kel needs help. I'm very patient, but. And I like the fact that I can be this like source of comfort for him. So, when he's screaming, I want to embrace like I want to be with him unless I'm really depleted from my, you know.

Well, some days it is just one thing after another, where you- And also when you try and do something specific for them where you put in effort, you know, and they just throw it in your face or are just not into it at all. And you're just like...

It happens often with you because you are the one taking us out, you're the one driving. And let's go to the beach or something...

The most brutal thing is, yeah, I want to go to the beach. I want to go to the beach. Alright, let's get in the car. I want to go to the beach. And then you get there, I don't want to go to the beach. And you're just like, are you fucking serious?

I'm like, I don't want to go to the beach either, Noah. But I'm here because I want you to enjoy the fucking beach, you know? And then we get here and you're just like, can we go home? And you're just like, I'm going to leave you here, mate.

I want to watch trucks.

I know, that's it. Yeah, it is brutal, it is brutal. How has the- How are their languages going? I guess, Joey we have-

Joey.

Sorry, guys. You can see that we're parents. Yeah, Joey's yet to say anything more than muma, dada. She pulled that out only a few weeks ago, right? But Noah's...

...I don't know, probably 50/50, English and Portuguese. I have to admit I should speak more Portuguese with him...

I have to keep being on Kel all the time.

...But it's improving...

And just mixing the languages.

I know, it's so hard. It feels like we created our own sort of language that is a- That is English, and Portuguese combined, and we speak this language here now.

Well, I think what's happening with the brain is you effectively just pull the easiest thing out at any time. And if you know that he understands the word green instead of verde more, you often just insert the word.

That's what's happening.

And also using the wrong words for things, which really irritated me in the beginning. Because he would confuse things, so Kel would make a hot chocolate. And Noah would call it mingau in Portuguese, which means porridge. And so Kel's, just like whatever it's porridge.

Did you want some porridge? You want some porridge, Noah? And I would always be like, why is he having porridge before he goes to bed? And you'd be like it's not porridge, its hot chocolate. I'm like, Oh, God.

Oh, it's so cute. You know, my favourite one at the moment is batterias.

Yeah. Batteries.

He calls batteries, batterias, which is not...

It's not a word. Batterias.

...Just he made up his own thing. I just love it.

That's the hardest part, too, a lot of the time. You say a word that he hasn't heard before and he tries to say it and mispronounces it. You think it's cute, not you, but like people. And so, you say it again and it becomes a thing, and then he keeps saying it. Like for ages he called birds kakaa.

He still does.

Yeah.

Every now and then he says, oh, kakaa.

But it's like, it doesn't mean- I don't know where that came from...

From quack quack.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

The duck says quack quack, and he said, kakaa.

And he would think every single bird was a duck...

Yeah.

...When he was little-little.

...Duck is a bird. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. So, he was using kakaa. So, that's the hardest part. I have no idea how it's going to go because at the moment he seems to be mixing both languages quite a lot. Sometimes he'll say entire sentences in Portuguese, sometimes in English. Most of the time it'll be a mix. And it's, I think, I feel like because of day-care, he's there three days a week and because everyone else that he interacts with here speaks English.

His stronger language is English that he uses as sort of a default. But then if he hears us speaking in Portuguese, he often interacts in Portuguese with English inserted in. And often if he can't, if he's speaking English, but he can't think of the word in English, he'll just use the Portuguese one. So, you do end up with a mix at times.

And I love the accent. No...

Well, I was saying that. Yeah, so he got- He's already gotten the pronunciation down pretty well. I mean, he still has issues with some of the consonants. So, I don't think he says "th" yet. And he'll confuse, like he's saying cat instead of catch today. So, it is interesting those more complicated consonants take longer and probably the diphthongs and the vowels, too.

Yeah.

I haven't really paid too much attention to the Portuguese. I don't know if he's getting things like the nasal consonants. I think he can do "no" instead of "no", right, or now.

He's doing well. I think it's just- To be honest, I think English will always be stronger because, you know. But for me...

Unless he goes down and stays there for a while.

...If he understands Portuguese and you keep, and I have to remind myself to speak more Portuguese with him. And you keep it Portuguese alive in the house. That's better than most people.

Oh, for sure. For sure. I mean, I've met a lot of people who just tapped out even though they were migrants and they just used English. And they were like, screw it. I can't be bothered. Yeah. The neighbours, yeah, the neighbours, although they're, I think Australian born Serbians.

Oh, okay.

So, they learnt Serbian from their parents. But then I think they've just decided they're not going to teach their kids, they're like- But I don't know...

It would be nice to have a secret language that we can talk about the kids in front of them.

Yeah.

That's why I told you learn French.

I know.

Hurry up. I can get my French back up to speed and we can have a secret language, although they'd probably learn it pretty quickly.

Yeah...

The other thing was that Noah had learnt stress. I made a little video today that I put up an Instagram where Noah wanted me to come outside and he yelled at me, you're going outside. And I was like, holy crap, he's two and a half years old, and he already is starting to understand the use of stress in English. English is a stress time language. I think Portuguese is, too, right, where you have dicionário...

Dicionário.

...Dicionário, right, you'll have- You'll emphasise certain parts- Certain syllables within words. But then you would probably also say, you know, este é o meu dicionário. This is my dictionary. And so, you can emphasise words as well. And so, he did that with, you're going outside. And then afterwards he was like, you're going outside! Outside!

And I was like, wow, he's already picking up how to use stress to change the meaning of sentences. So, he said, you're going outside. As in you, not mum, not Joey, not anyone else. You are, you're going outside. But then, as opposed to inside or somewhere else, he said, you're going outside! Outside!

Yeah, it's funny.

I was like, holy crap, he can already- He'll have no idea consciously, but he's already getting it. And then I tried making this video with him...

Yeah...

...And he wouldn't shut the fuck up. Afterwards, he kept saying it and chasing me around everywhere. You're going outside! You're going outside! You're going- I'm like, all right, Noah, that's enough. Just say. That's enough, Jesus. I'm like shut up. Yeah, I know. Yeah. It is so funny how much they are just constantly wanting to repeat what you say. And today, he said, "I love you" for the first time, and I was just like, I almost cried.

How was it? Like, what happened?

Well, he was watching TV and I just said, you know, I was there playing video games chilling out at the end of the day before he goes to sleep. And I just said, you know, te amo, Noah. te amo. Which is Portuguese for I love you. And he turned around, and was just like, te amo and then kept watching. And I'm like, it was one of those things where he probably didn't know what he was saying.

He probably just repeated what he's heard us say to him all the time.

...It means a lot when you're like, oh, I know.

Yeah, when your kid first says I love you. Jesus.

...One of those moments the other day, it wasn't with a love you. It was- I was leaving his room, I put him to sleep. I put him in his cot, was about to leave the room. I said, night-night honey. And he was like, night-night, mama. Like, he never replies... (both talking) ...Sucking his thumb. He was like, night-night, mama. I was like, oh, that's so sweet. I love that, little things that give you something to hold on to.

Not strangling my vibe. Yeah, that's the icing on the sometimes-terrible cake. Anyway...

Yeah.

...We can probably finish up the episode there and let you sleep, so that you're ready to face another day tomorrow.

She's already making noises.

I know. We've got the monitor hiding behind the camera here, so that Kel can hear, if she goes, (baby waking sound effect).

I didn't know I would have a baby that is so difficult.

Well, you had, didn't you have the sleep consultant just tap out, was like...?

...Several sleep consultants and one of- The last one I contacted, she was like, this kind of baby is really hard to deal with. I can get your money and tell you that she'll be different in two weeks, but it's not going to happen.

I would rather not get your money and be honest with you. It might take six months. It might take, you know, it might take a full year. It's just not...

At least she was honest about it. Some of the other ones were just like, yeah, I'll take your $300 and then just do this. Here's some notes, just do these things. And you're like, that's it?

Some days I'm like- Like, seriously, some days I'm like, what have I done? You know, it's so difficult, it's so hard. But other days I'm like, I'm just- I would just embrace it. And it's Joey, you know...

I know. Don't fight it.

There are the good, you know, other sides of like, Noah would not- Never- He would not sleep unless he was in his room, you know, his house and things. He was very used to having his own thing. Joey sleeps, when she sleeps, she can sleep in the pram, she can sleep in the car, so she's always on the go. Anyway, so we just got...

Pros and cons. Yeah.

I better go to bed.

See ya, guys. Hopefully you've enjoyed this and, yeah, send us a message and let us know if you guys are going through the same struggles. Because I think that's the thing, you always feel like you're alone, but you don't realise there are so many other people out there in the same or similar boat, or worse. Yeah. Anyway, see ya, guys.