Transcript of AE 1176 - The Goss: Australia's Newest 50c Coin Has 4 Encrypted Messages on It

G'day, you mob! Pete here! And this is another episode of Aussie English, the number one place for anyone and everyone wanting to learn Australian English. So today I have a Goss episode for you where I sit down with my old man, my father, Ian Smissen, and we talk about the week's news. Whether locally down under here in Australia or non locally overseas in other parts of the world.

And we sometimes also talk about whatever comes to mind, right? If we can think of something interesting to share with you guys related to us or Australia, we also talk about that in the Goss.

So these episodes are specifically designed to try and give you content about many different topics where we're obviously speaking in English and there are multiple people having a natural and spontaneous conversation in English.

So it is particularly good to improve your listening skills. In order to complement that, though, I really recommend that you join the Podcast Membership or the Academy Membership at www.aussieenglish.com.au where you will get access to the full transcripts of these episodes, the PDFs, the downloads, and you can also use the online PDF reader to read and listen at the same time.

Okay, so if you really, really want to improve your listening skills fast, get the transcript, listen and read at the same time. Keep practising. And that is the quickest way to level up your English. Anyway, I've been rabbiting on a bit. I've been talking a bit. Let's just get into this episode, guys. Smack the bird. And let's get into it.

"Australian Signals Directorate releases coin with secret code to mark cyber-spy agency's 75th anniversary" Did you see this?

I did, yeah. The 50 cent piece. That is not a 50 cent piece.

Why is it- why is it not a 50 cent-

Well, it's not being-.

.. looks like it's a 75-

It's a 50 cent piece, but it's not being released into general circulation. So it's automatically a collector's item.

And it's got a big 75 on-.

It does. Yeah. So it's a weird looking- a 50 cent piece that says 75.

How many sides is it? Is it 12 or 10?

Count.

One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, 11, 12. Yeah, so how many- what do you call that?

Do- it's a dodecahedron.

Dodecahedron.

Yeah. 20 is a duodecahedron.

Yeah, I k-.

So.

I give up after octagon.

Yeah.

Okay, so let's read a little bit of the article here. "Your spy skills could soon be put to the test by a new 50 cent coin covered in secret coded messages. The limited-edition commemorative coin will be released on Thursday." So that was yesterday. "To mark the 75th anniversary of the nation's foreign intelligence cyber security agency, the Australian Signals Directorate, ASD."

Yeah.

"While the coin is not intended for circulation, 50,000 specialty coins will be available for purchase from the Royal Australian Mint, each featuring four levels of coded messages to crack." Crack that code. And I need a look at why we say 'crack'.

To crack. Well, it's like 'break'. It started off with breaking the code and then cracking, I think just became more exotic word for it.

Let's see. I wonder how much it is. You reckon it's more than $0.50?

Already? You reckon there's some for sale already?

Well, they said they were releasing it yesterday, right? So..

Somebody would have bought it and stuck it on eBay.

50,000 of them, you reckon?

Yeah.

I wonder if there's- there, $12.

There you go.

There you go. From the, um.

Yeah.

The Royal Australian-.

From the mint..

..shop.

Yes. So to purchase them, it's $12 as a starting price.

There's a few of them at different places. Yeah. They're $12.50. There's a quite a few of them here.

Yeah.

Jesus Christ. So what's that? Like. Yeah. 30 times.

25 times its value. It's 12.50.

That sucks.

Aye.

But- oh, so are you going to rush out and grab on, Dad? And then put it into circulation?

Try and break the code.

I've already got it broken in front of me. So I can read it after you guys if you want the..

Have you- is it- is it actually talking about it broken already?

Oh, man, there are- so there are Reddit- subreddits, that have people who decode messages.

Yes.

And they decoded this within a day of the images of the coin being released. Not the coin itself, I'm pretty sure. So, I mean, it's not like they were the most difficult to..

No, of course not,

.. to decipher..

Apparently, they're- well, according to the article, they were, the first one is the easiest. And then it gets more and more difficult.

And I guess to describe it to people. So the coin looks like obviously a normal 50 cent coin in terms of its shape. It has like two rings of letters around the outside on the face.

Yeah.

So like, you know, A B C D E F G alphabetical letters.

Except they're in random order. What appears to be random to the..

.. yeah and some are light, and some are dark. And then there's 75 with Reveal and Protect under the five, and 1947 to 2022 on the seven, and Australian Signals Directorate. It's in a peace symbol. And then on the sort of bottom right third of the piece symbol is a whole bunch of letters and numbers like, like, it looks like a page worth of letters and numbers. So there are obviously two rings that are, I would imagine a code each and then the, the, um. Page of text and numbers on the front. And then on the back, there's the Queen's face with Elizabeth II, Australia 2022 and then $0.50. And she's got- that looks like Braille under certain letters.

Yes. Yeah. But it's only for..

It's only a handful of letters.

.. code.

Yeah. Yeah, it almost looks like Braille but yeah. So anyway, a bunch of people on Reddit worked it out. Do you want me to read it out to you?

No, you don't have to. People can find it.

You know, you don't reckon..

Give them the challenge. Yeah, yeah. Yeah no, read it out.

I don't know how many people are going to be bothered to go and actually try and decipher the code. If you don't want to listen, obviously stop here and I won't tell you. You can just skip ahead a minute. But the first one was 'find clarity' in seven width times five depth. So 'find clarity' meaning obviously decipher the next code using, and I think it's a seven by five matrix.

Yeah.

So it's obviously specific ways of cracking codes, arranging letters and everything.

So the first code, the, the first answer gives you a clue to the next code.

Yeah. And the next one was 'we are audacious in concept and meticulous in execution'. And then 'belonging to a great team striving for excellence, we make a difference'. And then it had like XOR hex A5 D75. And apparently that was related to the cipher that you would have to use.

Yeah.

So I think XOR is a type of cipher that you would use hexagonal or something. And then the A5 D75 is a type of code that you would have to use to then decipher the, the next message. And I think that was the page.

Yeah.

And it was 'for 75 years the Australian Signals Directorate has brought together people with the skills, adaptability and imagination to operate in the slim area between the difficult and the impossible'.

There you go.

Yeah. So I thought that was really cool.

Yeah. It is.

Um, I had to. I had to, like, find the crack code and share it with you guys just so that you weren't just left wondering, but yeah.

Yeah. No, it's a cute idea when you, it's, it's actually demonstrating the job of the organisation rather than just naming the organisation and saying, well done, 75 years.

Yeah. I know. And I like that, that interaction with the public because they were saying, chucking it on TV and being like if you guys can decipher this, definitely get in contact with us and you know, you might have a job and you're kind of like, 'Oh, really, really? Would you would you just take a random off the street who was like, 'Yeah, cracked it.'.

But yeah, it's probably, it's probably indicative of the sort of code that they would give someone when you, 'Hey, I'm interested in a job, go and take this away for 24 hours and come back with an answer'..

.. yeah, work it out.

And if you can't, don't bother coming back.

Well, I imagine a lot of a lot of the deciphering of codes these days would surely be using computers. So you're not having to do all this stuff by hand.

Of course, but..

Could it be more .. you need to use..

.. the intellectual process of, yeah, how is this actually going to work? Because it's, it'll again, there'll be computer programmers that need to understand the logic of the codes in order to build the program to decipher them. So.

Yeah, but yeah, I thought it was really cool. Um, how, what do you think of coins being made and, you know, to commemorate certain things. That seems like such a random usage of coins, right? Though I guess I do understand that it would be a way of spreading a message quite a far.

I think it's- it's not free because clearly they have to make new moulds to, to actually mint the coins.

Yeah.

But it's, it's free in a sense that once you've produced them, they're going to go into circulation anyway. Now, in this case, these are not these are special commemorative ones, but we have lots of coins that have come out for commemorating different things over whether they be Australian or whether they be, you know, the Queen's 90th birthday or, you know, it's a bunch of them that have come out for those sort of things. And I think it's a, it's a semi-permanent message that is just infiltrated into the community. Because they, amongst coin collectors and people who care, they'll notice. But then if you just, you know, taking a handful of coins every time you get change from something, as we spoke about in another episode, that's not happening very often these days.

People aren't handing handling cash too often. But for those who are, you go, 'oh, this one's different'. Yeah. 'Oh, what does this mean?' And you have a look at it and go, 'Oh, that's cute'.

Yeah, it's- it's Princess Diana and Charles. Prince Charles on their..

Yeah, exactly.

.. two heads.

And sometimes you look at that and go- and one of the things we used to do when we were kids, because I was eight years old when decimal currency came in. And so obviously the first mint of our decimal currency was all made in 1966, and then the next year was 1967. And so it used to be the 'hey, who's got a new 1968 $0.01 piece?' Or a, and then you go, 'Well, can we collect all of them?' You know, for ten years or so you'd go, 'Oh, have you got every year in the 20 cent pieces?' And, and so every time you'd pick up a 20 cent or a ten cent piece, you'd look at it and go, 'Oh no, it's the same old year that we've always had'. 'Oh, this is a new one' or a different one, and so on. So I guess the commemorative coins are just a different sort of escalation of that idea that. There's no reason notionally to put a year of minting on a coin.

Yeah.

But it just makes it more collectable and interesting, I think. From a random point of view that the, the item itself has some inherent interest rather than just being there for trading, for goods and services.

When do you think the first commemorative coin was made or minted, and where do you think it was?

Um, probably Rome.

Oh, well, at least according to Google..

Second or third century?

Acoording to Google, it's 1892, "the Columbian Exposition half dollar was the first commemorative coin authorised by Congress in the US".

Ahh. That's in the US.

Yeah. So that was the..

World coins. I'm sure there would have been. Well, they're not so much commemorative, but every time there was a new emperor, there would have been a new run of coins and so on. So..

Yeah, I'm trying to have a look here. Commemorative coins. The two most common are the Constantinopolis (victory on a prow), and VRBS Roma, the 'wolf and twins' types. So I guess there are some from ancient Rome here. The female figure on the obverse is the personification of Constantinople or Rome. The wolf and Twins type..

Romulus and Remus.

.. depict Romulus and Remus, the founders of Rome, being suckled by the she-wolf. Yeah. So I guess it must be some from back then. It must be one of those things where it's like as soon as coins were being used, people were putting different messages on them to celebrate or commemorate different things. Did you ever feel like collecting coins was something you'd get into, like ancient Roman coins?

Ah, no. Well,

.. stuff you see appeal.

See, in Australia, it's really hard because you can't find them.

Yeah, well, you can't really. Well, you'd be amazed. I imagine that you just out there while..

.. the coin at the outback Australia somewhere.

Changing history with this.

Yeah. Um. So, yeah, I can understand why people collected sort of ancient coins and and artefacts and things in, in Europe.

That'd be mindblowing, right? Walking around in Italy, in the countryside with a metal detector and being able to potentially find things that are thousands of..

People still do it in, yeah, in certainly in Britain because we get a lot of those sort of TV shows of..

Yeah,

Yeah, here's Pete out there with his metal detector and he picks up a bunch of Roman coins..

Well, they seem..

.. and stuff and it's- they're not worth anything in a sense, because they're so common. But it would still be cool to go and go, oh, this 2000...

.. you've got to give it to the museum.

Yeah.

Isn't it- isn't that how it works. Like you can get, I don't know if you get paid for it, or you exchange it for something, but I'm pretty sure if you find anything significant, it's 'That's ours. Thanks.'.

Yeah. I don't think they're going to care about Roman coins, but.

Yeah. Didn't we talk about a story on the Goss? I'm not sure if we ever did or not, but about that badger, finding- digging up a treasure trove of coins in Spain?

Yeah.

And someone had obviously hidden a shitload of gold coins or whatever- it was like a fortune, effectively. They'd buried it somewhere and put it under a rock..

.. cave or something.

And this badger..

Badger dug it out.

Excavated it. Yeah. And someone stumbled upon it. But yeah. That kind of-.

Yes, archaeological badgers.

Well, I just. Yeah, I still can't imagine what it's like. I mean, it feels ignorant to say that living in a country that has the oldest living culture.

Yes.

But at the same time, there isn't a great deal of just artefacts that you could just stumble upon.

No, the artefacts in the case of Australian Indigenous people is literally art.

Yeah.

That you can go and.. so you might.. eel traps..

..20,000 years old, and there are the eel traps and things but, but they're sort of built things. They're not objects as such.

But you hear about..

.. random.

People in the US finding arrowheads and all that sort of stuff all the time. And then people in, yeah, Europe is, is one of them, and probably the Middle East too..

Yeah, see the other thing too, in Australia we've, we've never had a war on Australian soil.

Yeah, where you could go and find bullets and stuff.

Yeah. And people still do that in, in Europe and in America there's only, you know, civil war, known battlefields and things. And people are finding, you know,

Well, I guess we would have had a war with the Indigenous people, but it would be- but they weren't specific location.

They weren't sort of large wars as such, battles or massacres, but but not, you know, a battlefield with hundreds of soldiers on two sides fighting each other. And they're for ages so that you end up with a lot of artefacts left on the in the ground. But..

It was interesting- this is sort of a side topic, but I was trying to learn about whether or not ancient soldiers got PTSD. Because you would think, surely these guys are fighting hand-to-hand combat effectively, right? Like, maybe they've got a bow and arrow, maybe. But if you're thinking about like the Roman times and earlier, yeah, but the average person's probably up front literally pushing steel into another human being to kill them on a daily basis, you know, up front, up close and personal and for probably hours at a time. Right. Like I imagine those battles, I mean, maybe not hours, but you would imagine it's a long period of time. Like it would feel like a long period of time of like stab-by, kill-y death. Yeah.

And I was looking it up and a lot of people were saying that they probably wouldn't have had PTSD anywhere near like today because, one, because that culture was, you were raised into that culture of glorified war where you were fighting, you were meant to fight, you are meant to kill for the empire or for your tribe or your religion or whatever.

And it was glorified publicly. Everyone was like anyone who kills is an amazing person. Whereas today it's such a big taboo, right? Now, effectively in whatever culture today it's effectively a huge taboo to kill someone. And so they were saying that was one big reason. But then also the fact that modern PTSD from wars is a lot of the time apparently associated with explosions, more so than- I mean, there's obviously the traumatic events of you killing people and people around you dying. But apparently when I was reading up on it from, from some experts, they were saying that it really started hitting the PTSD thing as a phenomenon, first started hitting the world in like World War One with the advent of like artillery..

Bombs and mines.

And not just, not just it being around, but the fact that you were in a trench being bombed repeatedly for weeks. And they were saying something like, I think it was after 60 days of trench warfare, you would be effectively- I think the majority of people, it was like 99% of people are useless. And you're gone. Like there's no getting the generals worked out pretty quickly, that there was no fighting capability coming out of the people who'd been there for that long. And they yeah, there was a there's a guy on, on YouTube talking about this and he was mentioning a as well.

I think they know that a certain number of fighting days soldiers have that they're useful for, and it's like less than a year, of days, 200 or something, where they can actually be in the field fighting and be useful. And they had some, I think he was talking about a specific regiment in the Second World War being incredibly effective. And as it got moved around, that effectively got less and less effective and it blew the minds of the generals because they were like, these people are some of the most effective..

More experienced.

Yeah, we thought they'd be more experienced, but by the end of it..

.. they end up more stressed.

Yeah. And they just tapped out right. Like they were mentally tapped out, physically tapped out and had seen so many of their friends die that they were just like, What the hell are we doing?

Yeah.

But it was one of those things where I always assumed you would, you would think that close, face to face combat, would drive people insane, you know, a lot of people. But again, I'm no expert, but it seems like there aren't huge numbers of records that we have from like Roman times or the Middle Ages and everything where you just had loads of people in battles losing their minds and freaking out. It seems like it was actually the opposite. And yeah, so it's interesting if the blood and the guts and everything and the fact that the cultural practices didn't make killing people taboo actually shield the people from PTSD.

But then later, once we sort of went through that kind of, what would you say, the enlightenment and everything, and killing people and murdering became a massive taboo. And then with the advent of more technologies that killed randomly, whilst you're in the battlefield at any point in time, you can just be blown up in front of your mates.

Yeah.

And that's what really freaks people out. And then when they come back home, they're not used to people around them because they, they know that everyone around them has no idea what they've been through, so they don't really know how to communicate with them.

Do you remember that being much of an issue when you were growing up? Like was there much of an awareness of. Of what we today call PTSD, post traumatic stress syndrome?

Certainly awareness. Because I mean, I was born 12 years after the Second World War.

It's 1930...

Finished.

1957!

1957. And so, my father served in the Second World War. My two grandfathers served in the First World War. I didn't know one of my grandfathers, but the other one lived with us. So, you know, had at least the two adult males in our family had both been through wars. My grandfather, my mother's father, didn't appear to be particularly affected by it. But..

Did he talk about it often, or..

He did, but he was in the Navy and he was in the, in a destroyer.

So this was World War One?

World War One.

Wow.

And- but he was most of their activity was in the Atlantic, in the middle mid-Atlantic Ocean and around the Caribbean.

Mm hmm.

He wasn't right up in the North Sea during a lot of those battles, and.. The First World War was not a naval battle anyway.

Yeah, it's trench warfare.

It was trench warfare. It was land warfare. And so, yes, there were naval battles and, you know, ships sinking, other ships and things, but it wasn't a huge thing. So he didn't undergo and go through a lot of traumatic experiences, I think, in that sense. My father was..

To pause you, your grandfather, from the stories you tell me, was a sort of casual racist, right?

He was a person of his time.

Yeah. Do you think, though, that that racism that you would often talk about, or at least just the phrases that he would use?

Yes.

Is that something that you think he developed during the war? Or is that just a- was that just a cultural thing at the time?

I think it was just a cultural thing. And it's hard to differentiate between them because he joined the Navy. He enlisted in the Navy before the war started.

Yeah.

So he wasn't conscripted. There wasn't First World War conscription. We had volunteering, but he didn't volunteer, didn't- you know, there was no other war started, 'I'm going to go off and join the Navy'. He was already in the Navy.

Okay.

But he was a child. He was a teenager. And so it's hard to differentiate.

Yeah. Okay.

Between was this a part of growing up in, you know, between 1910 and 1920 or was it that he went through five years of war in that time?

I just, I ask, I guess because, one, I know racism was a lot more common and blasé in Australia, but also also the world I imagine, you know, a hundred years ago. But that war quite often seems to increase the amount of racism that any individual has towards another group of people. Right.

Yeah, but he, his, he was an equal opportunity racist. And in that..

.. everyone.

Yeah. Basically, if you're not, you know, British, almost and it really was if you weren't British or yeah you're not a true Aussie if you didn't come from British stock. So yeah he wasn't too keen on..

The Brits would be like, you're not a British person..

Exactly, on Southern Europeans, ah, there was bloody wogs, day goes. Yeah, wops. He hated Germans, but he'd fought in a war against them, so that was probably understandable. Hated the Japanese because in the Second World War Australia was fighting against Japan. But suddenly the Japanese just got extended to every Asian.

Is that more broadly what happened? Or was that just with him?

Oh, it was him. I can't speak for what other people were like. Was not keen on black people. Whether they were Indian, as in from India, or whether they were African or African American. But he had no reason to be. He hadn't been at war with any of them. So I think he's an equal opportunity racist. He just hated everybody.

And was that just a common thing of people..

I think it was just a common thing of his generation. That, he was a little more bigoted and vocal about it than many.

Yeah.

But I think that sort of xenophobic racism was, was just sort of generic. I think, in fact, at that time.

You used to have a funny story as well about Mum, right? And what he used to call her. Because of her surname.

Oh, the little Jewish girls! Yeah. Yeah.

You want to tell that story?

Well, yeah, he used to, but he could never admit when- when I started going out with your mother and, you know, she came and met the family and stayed with us. And so he could never remember a name. And so.

She just walked in one day and was like, 'shalom'.

Yeah, exactly. And yeah, her surname was Mos, which isn't even a particularly Jewish name. It's just there are Jews with that surname.

I didn't even know that, right.

I know.

.. told me that, I've still never met a Jew with the surname Mos.

I know. Exactly, but. But he just decided that, you know, she was that little Jewish girl.

Yeah.

He actually didn't have a problem with Jews. He wasn't, you know..

They got off.

They got off lightly. So..

He used to, yeah. So how long until that wore off? I assume once you got married, he was no longer saying that or...

No. Well, he, he died just after we got married.

Yeah, so didn't have a chance?

No. In fact, before we got married, we were engaged. But he wasn't at our wedding. He died a few months before we got married.

Yeah, far out, but yeah. So your dad?

Yeah. And then- and Dad went through the Second World War in the Royal Air Force in England. He was British. And but he had sort of mental health issues when I knew him. But- and you could say that some of that might have been, you know, post-traumatic stress.

Had he seen much like trauma at war, though, because he was a fighter pilot, wasn't he?

He tried to be a- he trained to be a fighter pilot, but he crashed a plane and was then declared unfit to fly after that because he had head injuries. And so they declared him unfit to fly. And he retrained in- two careers in the Air Force, he trained to start off with in the balloon squad, which were trying to put tethered balloons. Like very large balloons, tethered balloons up around the coast of Britain, and around some of the cities to put off German planes flying, they- so that they would run into them and crash.

Mm hmm.

So it was done- these things were on, you know, hundreds of metres of cable going up into the air. And they were I think they were probably hydrogen rather than helium. It's a bit easier and cheaper to produce. And..

Well, the Zeppelin was about that time, wasn't it, when it blew up.

And yeah, that was 1930s, so and then he, he moved out of that and went into air control. So effectively an air traffic controller.

Yeah. I feel like that out of all of those jobs would probably give you PTSD.

Yeah, well, exactly. And that was the thing. When you know your job is to send your mates off flying out and, you know, sorties every day and not all of them come back every day. Some of them don't come back. And so that in itself must have been hugely stressful. So, but it was hard to tell whether his mental illness had something to do with that or not, because according to his sister and sister-in-law, they just said, look, he was you know, he had mental health- what they would now recognise as mental health problems from a teenager.

Yeah.

So it probably got exacerbated by going through the war.

But I guess at that time too, I mean, I don't even, I didn't even know if it was until recently that talking about it was sort of no longer taboo, publicly, right. Because- so you said your grandfather spoke about stuff at the war. Did your dad, or was that a big..

No, Dad didn't say. Dad didn't talk about the war at all. And what he did say were basically just adventures, sort of lies, you know, made up stories that were probably true but may not have involved him directly. But, you know, he'd tell war stories, but not particularly about him.

Was that a common thing for people that you knew in..

They didn't talk about it.

No one did, about Second World War or the First World War?

No. And and then I didn't know anybody who served in Korea in the 1950s. Obviously, the war was before I was born, but I didn't know anybody as I was growing up, anyone had served.

But that had been a gap, right? Where, as you were growing up, they would have been sort of just before they'd had kids.

Yeah.

You wouldn't have grown up with it.

Exactly. And then in the sixties, with the Vietnam War, I knew several people who went to Vietnam. And the, the majority of those people that I knew that had come back didn't want to talk about it at all. For two reasons, I think. One, because it was the, probably the only war in our history where we treated our returned service people really badly, in a sense that there was such opposition to that war that we took it out on the returned servicemen and women as they were treated like pariahs and completely unfairly.

Yeah.

Because most of them had not gone by choice. Most of them were conscripted and sent over by the government. And, you know, but there was a huge opposition to that war. So so people didn't talk about that. And I think that in itself was probably the the first real public awareness of post-traumatic stress as a thing for return service people. Everybody, they used to call, you know, people would have battle scars or, and so on from the..

Shell shock!

..war- shell shock, was a well-known..

Battle fatigue.

All of those things were well known. But but the underlying post-traumatic stress, things that were not overtly psychiatric disorders but people's mental health issues after Vietnam, because of those two reasons. One, you had been through a war, and then two, when you got home, you were treated really badly by the country that you were serving. And so you couldn't talk about it. And a lot of Vietnam vets have really struggled. Australian and American vets have really struggled for the rest of their life with that. So..

Wow. And it was a pretty atrocious war, too, where a lot of atrocities were carried out.

And it was it was all guerrilla warfare.

Yeah.

So..

Well, that must be similar to the kind of trench warfare where that, like you're in the jungle and anyone at any time..

You could be attacked at any time.

Yeah. And there's booby traps..

.. step on booby trap or mines and, uh.

Yeah.

Horrible.

So, so when did it become, do you think, normalised in our society to be able to talk about these sorts of things. Is that something that's like post 2000s?

Yeah. Like, I think more modern wars probably, you know, 1990s when you know, we've gone through wars in the Middle East, you know, Iraq and Afghanistan in particular and having, you know, Australian. And many other countries, but obviously from our point of view, Australian men and women serving there. I think that's been one where it has started to be recognised by the public that there, and there's plenty of medical research and military research around now that says, 'yeah, this is common, in fact everybody suffers from it, it's just a matter of degree'.

How much of it..

How much, and for how long, and what effect it's going to have on people's, you know, getting back into whatever normal life might mean afterwards.

Yeah, because I can't imagine, like some of the stories I've seen. I've seen and heard a lot of interviews with people in in Iraq and Afghanistan and where they're not even necessarily told to do something horrible, like 'go and kill that guy'. But it's more like they've thrown a grenade into a room and they end up killing a child.

Yeah.

And you're like, I can't like, now, especially as a dad, you can imagine that that would just break you for that, for life. Because, again, you know, like, like you don't know the child. You don't necessarily give a shit about any individual that you've just killed personally, but you know what you've just done. And you can imagine doing that to your own family, and you would never have personally chosen to do that to anyone. But it's happened exactly.

Yeah. Exactly.

And I think that's, that thing of like, if you want to give someone PTSD, force them to do something they would never do, you know, that would harm someone else. Right? But yeah, it is at least..

And PTSD is not just military.

Yeah.

There's all sorts of traumas that people go through. Yeah. Surviving vehicle accidents is a common one.

Police- police responding to those..

Police, fire, ambos. Yeah. That, you know, you know, the first responder to some of these things where you're going through it all second hand, it's not you that's directly involved.

Well I didn't realise- yeah. There were so many of these sorts of jobs. Facebook had a huge issue, I think, with people it had hired in America to watch video content that people had uploaded, and have to screen things that people had. I can't think of the word..

Inappropriate..

In Portuguese, it's like denounced, right? Yeah. But people claimed as spam or whatever and they would end up seeing things like, you know, child..

Yeah, people being..

.. film material, people being tortured and murdered and stuff. And Facebook had no- a way of taking care of those people and managing that. It was just, 'This is your job, shut up'. And they weren't allowed to talk about it with anyone else. And you're kind of like, Jesus Christ. That is a very quick way to give someone a mental disorder.

Well, yeah, that that form of organised censorship is that when you have a group of people who are deciding that what they are seeing is not suitable for the public.

And they can't even talk to someone about..

And how do you- how do you get through that? If you're deciding that 'I think this is so bad, I don't want other people to see it', you know, no matter what it is, that it has to have some effect on you.

Yeah, it's pretty nuts, isn't it? Anyway, I don't know how we got all the way to this.

I don't know either. We came from the 75th..

.. commemorative coin,

50 cent coin, which is $12.50.

Yeah, that's it. Anyway, anything else to add?

No, I'm stressed out.

You are stressed out by what?

I'm trying to work out how we got to this conversation.

Yeah. All good. All right. Well, thanks for joining us, guys.

Thanks everyone.

See you next time!

Bye!

Peace!