Transcript of AE 1025 - Raising Bilingual Children with Shana Thompson

G'day, you mob. Pete Here, welcome to this episode of the Aussie English podcast, the number one place for anyone and everyone wanting to level up their Aussie English. Guys, today I have an amazing episode for you where I sit down with one of my dear old friends, Shana Thompson, who started the American English podcast a few years ago.

And it's kind of based on the same principles that I have here for the Australian English podcast, the Aussie English podcast, where she teaches you English through the lens of America, so you learn about culture, history, news and current affairs, everything like that. So, today I got Shana onto the podcast to talk all about what it's like being married to a Brazilian and raising Brazilian kids and the language learning process, right.

Teaching the kids Portuguese, speaking it at home, everything like that. So, we have an amazing yarn, we have an amazing natter, an amazing chat. I hope you enjoy it and get a lot out of it. Without any further ado, guys, smack the bird and let's get into it. G'day, you mob. Welcome to this episode of Aussie English. I have Shana here from the American English podcast. Shana, welcome to the podcast! How are you going?

Great. How are you doing?

I'm good. I'm good. Man, tell us a little bit about the American English podcast and, you know, what you do, where people can find more about you before we get into today's content.

Yeah. So, the American English podcast is very similar to the Australian English, the Aussie English podcast and at the same time, not at all, because it's not about Australia. So, we do American culture, American English. I talk a lot about very fun things that I find interesting in the United States and about history and culture. And yeah, the podcasts can be found on any podcast application. Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever.

And the website is the AmericanEnglishpodcast.com. Yeah, American...

We just did an episode about...

Sorry, sorry...

Sorry.

...AmericanEnglishpodcast.com.

"American English", no "the".

Yes, although I have...

So, we just did an episode on Dream Houses, which was really good fun, and that's going to be out on your podcast, and we've sort of got her on here as well. I got Shana on here because I'm like, you know, we need to do a tit for tat episode. We're going to do one for one. Today, I thought it would be really cool. Shana is kind of in the same predicament as I am when it comes to life in general. There are so many overlaps here, right?

So, we're both married to a Brazilian. We both have two children to a Brazilian, obviously. The children are about the same age. I think you've got two and a half and one, I've got two and a half and almost seven months.

So, we thought, or I thought it'd be really cool to sort of talk about what it's been like in terms of, you know, marrying a Brazilian, cultural differences and then having children with them and raising them with multiple languages at home. And both Shana and I speak Portuguese, so we're also constantly battling with trying to maintain/improve our language skills in and around the home, in a relationship and with kids.

And it's definitely easier said than done, right. So, do you want to start by telling us the story of how you met your husband, Lucas?

Oh my gosh. Sure. Yeah. So, years back before I gave birth to my daughter Julia, so about two and a half years ago, I was an English teacher online. So, I taught regularly a lot of English classes over Skype and at a distance, and Lucas was one of my students, actually. So, I met him in 2015. He took some classes with me, and we sort of hit it off.

I always tell people that are looking for a partner, the best way to do that is by taking language classes. Because you get, like it's low- A low pressure environment. You get to have conversation about a variety of different topics and, you know, you hear about things that you would never hear in a regular conversation, like hearing about someone's life regrets, you know, to practise hypotheticals.

You get to hear about dre- Like we just talked about, like dream houses. Like I don't normally walk up to someone in a bar and say, like, oh, what's your dream house? Like, how creepy would that be. Right. So, we had a few really great conversations over Skype. He's a musician, and so he was kind enough to serenade me with his guitar over Skype, which is kind of funny.

Was that his plan or was that your plan?

No, that was- I- Maybe, I think a combination. But he ended up meeting up with me, I was doing the events for the polyglot conference in New York City. And I was going to be there and I said, you know, you're in Brazil, New York City is not that far away. It's not that far away, like, as in like he could go straight from São Paulo, the city he was in and fly straight to New York City, and we would be in the same place.

And so...

Unlike coming to Australia. Yeah.

Yes. Kind of far. But he ended up buying tickets and we met up for the first time in New York City. And since then it's been, yeah, everything went pretty fast. I'm sure with Kel it was very similar where you meet and then the next thing you know, you're trying to figure out, how can we live in the same location? And then you figure out like, okay, we can live in the same location.

Okay, marri- Like, you get engaged really fast, you get married really fast, and the next thing you know you're pregnant.

Whoops. It's funny because it's almost exactly the same as what happened with me. Obviously, Kel was in Australia, but it was probably a similar kind of distance away. She was in Townsville, which is about as far north as you can go from where I am. You know, I think it's, what, 2,000, maybe two and a half thousand kilometres.

And so, yeah, it was good in that we got to know one another for a very long time online, by just having conversations, by talking to one another. And then when you actually finally meet, you already know, you know, that's just the icing on the cake, right.

It's the last thing, the last thing to check off is, do we- Are we compatible physically and, you know, everything else together when we're actually there because emotionally and everything, that's kind of all been shown. So, yeah. And it is really funny how much more of a sort of safe environment it is compared to something like dating online or tinder or something where the expectation is already there, that you're romantically-

That you're there for romantic reasons. Whereas if you're just doing language classes, you can sort of get to know the person as a friend first, and then if anything else happens, it happens so.

Right. So, how- Can you just remind me, how did you and Kel meet?

She commented on one of my YouTube videos and just said, oh, I really like what you're doing. I'll have to dredge the comment up somewhere one day and see, because I can't remember it verbatim, word for word. But I think she just said, you know, like what you're doing and I'm learning English, and it's been a, you know, big help. I'm from Brazil. And I think it was right at the point where I had started to learn Portuguese.

So, I was like, oh, if you want to do a sort of tit for tat, you know, you speak English with me, I speak Portuguese with you, let me know. And it was kind of one of those things, looking back, where I'm like, you know, I was single and I saw this attractive young lady and I was like, you know what? I'll take a chance. See, you know, anything could happen, get to know her and just hit it off instantly.

I think like you probably did with Lucas, where the moment we kind of had a private conversation together on, it would have been Instagram or Facebook, I was like, man, she just really clicks with me, you know, just seems to get it. Same sense of humour and everything. And I was like, when are you coming to Melbourne?

And was it weird the first time you met? Because for me with Lucas, I was concerned with meeting someone online, you know, you don't know on Skype how tall somebody is. You don't like- I am a tall woman. I am, trying to think in centimetres, I think it's 174, maybe. I'm five foot eight. And I was like, okay, I'm taller. If he's shorter than me, what am I going to do? You know, I feel really opinionated about being taller. I don't know.

And so, that was sort of a conversation we had, like before we met. Like, I just need to know what I'm, you know, what should I expect? Can you please get some tape measure out, put it against the wall and have a photo with you holding today's newspaper in front of that tape measure? Thank you. You know, just checking. No reason. No reason.

Yeah, no. It was very funny. But was it like that with you?

Yeah, so Kel came down. She was staying with a friend. They'd already organised this before I had even met Kel, where she was coming down to Melbourne for a week because her old English teacher/best friend from Queensland had moved down to Melbourne.

And so, just by chance, she came down, but then ended up spending the week with me. But I think- What was the first day? Yeah, she would have- She showed up at my doorstep effectively, which looking back as like, crazy girl.

But she had coffee and she was just like; we're going to hang out. And I just remember opening the door and being like, thank God, she is what I thought she was in terms of like...

Not like a tall man.

Sort of really overweight old man. He's like, hey, it's Kel. What the-? Come in here, you. Yeah, no. I think it was that relief of like, and then a big thing. And this is, I don't know how deep this is getting, but hugging her and being like, I'm so glad she smells good.

You know, being that kind of like, like the worst thing I could imagine at that point was like, I hit it off, everything's amazing, I'm physically attracted to her, but then I hug her and I'm like, I can't stand this person's smell. You know, that would be like the worst thing to ever happen. And I was just, I remember thinking, oh, she smells amazing. Thank God. When are we getting married?

Well, I don't think I have ever smelled a stinky Brazilian. Speaking of culture, that is something, I'm not sure if we're jumping into this too soon. But with Brazilians the first time I met Lucas, he actually said I smell.

You!?

Yes, because I was in...

What, just as like, an off- A flippant comment. He was just like, by the way, Shana, I really like you. But could you shower more?

No, actually, he didn't- Sorry, he didn't say that, like when I met him. But he told me months later he was like, wow, I really wasn't sure if it was going to, you know, pan out. Because when we first met, I had gone to a big event, I was hosting the event. I said in New York- In the city, and I came straight back from this long night out and not showering and went straight to the airport to pick him up. And so, he was, yeah.

So, speaking of Brazilians and showering, I mean, I'm not sure if Kel is like this. But Lucas, when I first met him, he was like, you know, like in Brazil, people shower multiple times a day. Like, it's not abnormal for people to shower, you know, two times a day, possibly three if you're in a hot city. And I'm sure with Kel she's, you know, female, she probably was- Is very hygienic.

So, you probably would never have to worry about the showering or the stink.

Well, it's come later, I think after having kids, you know, some days you just, like both of us, you just miss showers, right. Your just like, oh yeah, I forgot. And then you're like, oh, wow. Okay. So, this is what it would have been like if we'd both been kind of like unhygienic people back in the day.

Right.

But it's too late to be like, yeah, this is a deal breaker now. Your like, man, this, you know, it's just...

It's a different world.

Yeah, but it was funny, isn't it? Because we were both sort of going through these stages together, right. Simultaneously. Shana and I have been friends for a very long time now, and although we've never met in person. We met online I think probably through the polyglot kind of community conference thing, right? And have gotten to know one another.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's been like, I think, a very long time that we've known each other. So, I think the stages that we've gone through- Really, I think Kel met her shortly. It was after I met Lucas. And so, I think everything- Actually even the timing of our babies was exactly the time frame that we had, just you were a little bit after. So, that's really funny. Yes. Yeah.

But now both of us with two little crazy kids, it's a different stage. Not necessarily that, you know, younger, I have time to practise languages. I have time to do what I want to do. Like, it's a lot of, you know, tending to other's needs. So... (both talking)

...Because I think we were learning Portuguese at about the same time together as well, because you were, I think at the time when I met you living in Germany, right? And you spoke incredible German.

And I was learning French. And I believe that was one of the thin- One of the connections. Because I was doing a language challenge that was a 90-day thing where I had to practise as much French as possible. And it just so happened I couldn't really find French people to practise with. So, I had Pete and another Australian, randomly, that I used for French practise. And so, Pete managed to get it to a very high level in French.

And so, it was kind of- I felt like when we did meet up, it was a little bit funky because my level was so much lower. But at the same time, like it was cool to also, you know, talk to you about your language learning tactics, just because you were so into it, like you were diving into the language so deep that I feel like you had a lot of tips that I could, you know, take away from our conversations.

It sucks, though, too, right? Like, I've lost French. (speaks French) I've like, I can speak a little bit, but I've forgotten so much of it and just the fluent, you know, the fluidity of the language I've kind of lost as well. So, it is crazy how much you obviously need to maintain these things by using them all the time.

You can't just get to a really good level and then, oh yeah, that's it for the rest of my life. It's, you know, this constant thing. And English would probably go out the window if I stop speaking it tomorrow for years, you know. How have you found that with your German? Because I remember you'd been there for quite a few years, hadn't you? And it had gotten to a very high level.

Have you been able to maintain the German you had when in Germany or has that been quite a difficult kind of process?

I think it's- It's always going to be a challenge with whatever language, and I think with whatever level you're at, it's still going to be an issue. Like you just said with English, like if English goes out the window tomorrow because you stop speaking it, like, I think it's a possibility. With German for me, I mean, I got to the point where I thought, okay, my level is very high. I can have conversations about anything.

But then I find myself now, okay, it's been a few years since I was regularly exposed, and I'll listen to something or read something and I go, oh my gosh, I would have never used this vocabulary in regular conversation. If I was in that moment, I would have forgotten the certain appliances in the kitchen. I wouldn't have been able to describe odd things that, you know, comes with that extra advanced level in a language.

Those things, I think, go first if they're not as regular. So, it's been a challenge.

Well, you don't realise how much you have to be receiving, how much information you need to be receiving all the time for those words and the vocab, the expressions to stay on the surface and be kind of like accessible when you want to speak. I found that with Portuguese, quite often I'll study certain vocab and then I'll forget it within weeks or months because I haven't been either reading or talking about those things, you know.

So, it is really interesting how much you need to just be exposing yourself to as much content as possible all the time, even if you're not speaking, just so that it's effectively on the tip of your tongue, that you can pick those words and expressions out and use them, right.

Yeah. And I imagine for English language learners, it would be those things that were a little bit challenging to learn. Like, I think Phrasal verbs would probably be the first to go, you know? It's like, later... If you don't practise for a year and you try and, like I used it in, I think it was my last one, "pan out".

Like, how would you know? Like you wouldn't use that in a conversation regularly if it was going to be a risk to use it in a conversation, then I mean, of course, a year later, you're not going to remember it, you know. So...

And you know what's the worst? The worst is that your accent doesn't really get worse. And so, if you try and get back into the language and speak it, quite often, your fluency and language use is like gone through the, you know, the floor. It's horrible. But the accent's really, really good still, and so people expect a much higher level of the language to come out of your mouth than it does.

I've had that a few times with French, where I try and speak to someone and they'll be like, oh. And then I'll be like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I can't. Like, I can say, hello and I can, you know, I'll understand what you're saying to me, but I can't produce it quickly enough to be able to respond.

That's so funny. That's the joy of podcast, I find. Just because, I mean, there's so much limitation in life to like reading books. Like, how often can you sit down and read a book with kids? And when you have kids running around? How often can you, I mean, just any other exposure to English is going to be challenging.

When you're listening to a podcast, okay, if you get a moment away, like if you're even in the shower, you can turn it on. While you're doing other activities and- And I find that just by listening to German or to French or, you know, the languages I've learned, having that input really revitalises some of the things that I've lost.

And I just, I think it's really great that both of us are doing podcasts because I see the benefits so much in my own language learning. I have in having them.

Do you ever get frustrated that your work is in English? Because I get this all the time with Portuguese, I really want to dive into Portuguese, and I would love to immerse myself. But the problem is, obviously with my job there's no, okay for the next month I'm not going to speak English. You know, it's because if I was living, you know, in Australia and married to a Brazilian with children that are half Brazilian, half Australian.

If I had, what- Imagine I didn't have to work, I could literally close myself off and only do Portuguese. I could read Portuguese, I could watch Portuguese TV, I could listen to Portuguese shows, I could speak to my wife and my kids in Portuguese all the time and sort of get into the zone and just be constantly immersed in it.

But the fact that I have to constantly be creating content in English, it's kind of like always pulling me back out of the zone that I get into with Portuguese. Do you have that same kind of thing at home? Because I know that you speak Portuguese with your kids and your husband at home. Do you feel like you're constantly getting pulled back out of Portuguese immersion?

I think there's a few things here because you work more hours than I do per week, for sure. Like that is something that is like, I mean, you put a lot of hours into your podcast, you have so many episodes coming out on a regular basis.

That's a good point.

Whereas I...

...Probably do less if I want to actually immerse myself.

Sorry, listeners, maybe...

...Go back to one episode a month, but my Portuguese will take off.

No. But Pete dedicates so much time to his podcast. And I mean, I do, I enjoy making the podcast and everything. But I am a part time mum, so I do spend a lot of time with my kids and their language is at a level I'm getting the exposure to Portuguese regularly, like just by talking to them and stuff. But I mean, that's my own level coming out of my mouth, right. To have that advanced level where I'm actually learning something, I mean...

Yes,

...That is limited. Yes. Because I'm- When they do watch TV, I have the programmes that they're watching and they're geared to levels, the levels of Portuguese that they have, which up until I would say somewhat recently, it's not- I wasn't really learning anything anymore from their programmes because my level got too high. Recently, Julia, she started watching Bluey, which I know is from Australia.

Yeah!

Great show. Oh my... Love it. And the thing is...

Your kids are going to start speaking Portuguese and be using Aussie slang in there randomly.

Do they? I don't think they put- Do they put Aussie slang in the Portuguese version?

Yeah, there's been a whole bunch- Oh, in the Portuguese version. No, no. Is it dubbed in Portuguese? Sorry, I thought you meant you were watching it in English.

No. Oh, no, no. So, we're doing that in Portuguese. And the thing that's lovely about that programme is that each episode is short. Like, I love having- I love having exposure to short little snippets and it's- And you also have like a specific topic, there's a lot of role play. And they're more creative, the vocabulary got a little bit more advanced than, say, Peppa Pig or like things like that. And so, I watch it with her.

Like, for example, we have a specific time of the day where I go and I sit with her, and during the programme, I'll actually comment on things and ask her questions about what's happening. And because we intentionally watch, like we'll watch the same episode multiple times. And I think a lot of parents who are maybe not used to foreign languages, they probably would be like, I don't want to watch this again.

Yeah, exactly. My son, "again? Agai-". No again. No, again, Noah. We've seen this four times, Jesus.

Yeah. But, you know what, for the language purpose. Like I find, not only for her, is she getting that repetition of vocabulary, I do too. Like, I watch the show and I go, okay, today we're talking about casamento. Like, we're wa- A wedding episode.

And you have to know, like, there's things that I've learnt, and it's- Like we can talk about it afterwards. And I think that's the joy of, you know, like having a TV, because I do see the benefit of having shows and encourage language learning.

I was really surprised at how much language they pull out of shows. At first, I always thought, you know, it's just going to be a brain drain. It's just going to make them dumb, right. They're just wasting time. But my son picks up so much vocab now and expressions and things, and I'll be like, whoa, where did you learn that? Jesus! You know, like, he'll just whip out "back loader or backhoe".

And I'll be like, oh my God, how do you know the word for that machine? I didn't even know that. And he's like, oh, he's been watching Blippi, goddamn it.

I was like, I don't even know what that is. That's funny.

...American dude who's- He's crazy, eccentric. But he, like, effectively goes to say a company that builds tractors or whatever, and he'll get in it and drive it and talk about like, this is the bucket, and this is the hydraulic lift. And, you know, so even I especially the good thing is it's dubbed in Portuguese, so I'll watch it and be like, oh, taking notes.

You know, like you'll be learning all these words for things like an excavator or a bobcat, all these different machines, you know, mixer. So, yeah, it's really cool. But Bluey is a really good show just because they balanced the interaction between the parents and the kids so well that both parents and children can watch it and get something out of it.

Exactly. And they're polite. I'm not sure if this is just Australian culture in general, if you guys are extremely polite. But everything is please and thank you. There's so much respect between the parents and the children that I've noticed her personality has changed since she watched that show. And I am like, I'm about to write to the Austral- I think it's an Australian government programme, right? Is that-?

I don't know if it's by the government. I think there was a guy, he's from Queensland who created it and is now loaded. But yeah, he's- I think, how many are there? Three seasons now and like a hundred episodes or something, so.

Right.

Go check it out. It's free in Australia. Anyone listening, go on iview.com.au, which is the government website for TV, and you can go and watch it for free. Go check out Bluey. It's amazing. Yeah.

Another thing about that, really quick for language learners out there that are not just learning English. If you get Disney Plus, and I'm not like sponsored by Disney Plus or anything, but they have so many language options on their overdubbing.

And I find that I can- Being in the United States, I can access a lot of content that is not elsewhere in Portuguese. And so- Brazilian Portuguese, they have a bunch of different other languages on there as well. So, it's not just like subtitles or anything, like on Netflix I feel limited at times with language options. But they really put some effort in to making sure that people around the world can watch their content.

How do you access Bluey in Portuguese, if I can ask?

Disney Plus.

Okay, wow. I'll have to check that out. Because, yeah, that'd be amazing. That'd be two birds, one stone, right, if I could watch Bluey in Portuguese. Although I think I would lose quite a bit of the Australian-ism.

Probably. But they still have their churrasco. Like, you guys have really cute...

Yeah.

The barbie.

Yeah, exactly. That would be funny, though, to see how they translate some of these things. Because they'll have episodes about the loo, right, or the dunny, which is the toilet, the bathroom, and it'll be interesting to see how they translate that into Portuguese.

Yeah, I mean, actually, that could be really good because if there's a lot of- There are a lot of episodes that maybe, you know, you'll see the Australian aspects of the Australian culture, which you would- He would actually use the vocabulary...

Yeah.

...From that in real life, because he lives in Australia, I mean, it seems very appropriate...

Well, this is one of the funny things with stories coming out about Bluey in America, in English, a lot of the kids now using slang terms from the show in America. So, they'll call the toilet the dunny. And I'm like, we're finally getting you guys back. We're exporting our language and invading the US, because for so long we've just been receiving all the US vocab and everything.

Oh, I like that. You know, I don't mind adding some new- I watch the British Baking Show and I feel like I'm using a lot of British terms now. Like I found myself saying "chuffed" recently.

Oh, really?

And I'm like, oh, chuffed. Like, I've never said this in my life. And, you know, and I think back to the positive moments of learning during my British shows. So, yeah, I definitely can see how Australian English coming here would be a good thing, you know, we can add it to our vocabulary.

...Around, right. It'll be interesting. I wish I could live for another few hundred years to see how English is going to evolve globally because you're going to have so much more interconnectedness from everywhere. But how has it been-? Obviously, you've been learning. You were learning Portuguese, I think prior to meeting Lucas, your husband and-? Or was it after the fact?

No, I was learning Spanish. So, I...

That's right, you were in Colombia.

I was in Colombia and then that got to a point- You know, I, my Spanish, got up to an intermediate, like I would say, lower intermediate Spanish. Like I lived in Spain for a year or two shortly after college and it just- Portuguese really ate my Spanish...

Uhuh. I feel you.

...I talked to some- I forget who it was, if it was Alex Rawlings like or- One of the big polyglots out there, that's like very much on YouTube. And they were saying, oh, you know, if you don't get one language up to at least a C1 and then start another in the same language family at like, you know, shortly afterwards.

Like, say, for example, I have a B1 like a lower intermediate, like an A2, and then I start a language in the same family, I'm going to lose the first language. Right. So, that's what they told me... (both talking).

Yeah.

You often see that, though, right, with a lot of these polyglots they don't- (coughs) They don't tend to have languages that are that closely related, like Portuguese and Spanish at the same level. It's very rare that you'll see them, I think, from my experience where they'll have both of those languages, they'll tend to have gravitated towards one.

It's like, oh yeah, I speak Spanish really well, and I can get away with Portuguese because I kind of know the pronunciation and I'll just use Spanish. Like I've seen Steve Kaufmann and Benny Lewis being interviewed, these are two polyglots. Benny's from Ireland and Steve's from Canada. I've seen them both speaking Portuguese in an interview, but the amount of vocab and the pronunciation that they have, it's all Spanish.

And so, it's just crazy to see how, obviously it's really difficult to separate those two languages into their distinct like groups because there's so much overlap. But also, what's really cool is the fact that they can- Both of those guys speak Spanish to a much higher level, I think, than Portuguese.

But that they can get away with just using a Portuguese accent, and kind of, you know, I think they called it like 'portañol' potential where it's like Portuguese/Español put together. And it's funny how much it actually still works, and they can communicate.

Right. And effectively, like in the end, I mean, that's what really matters, right, is if you can communicate and you know. I mean, I guess not for someone like you or me as much that like really wants to get a high level and wants it to be its own language. I don't want to have a mixture of things, a 'portañol' or a- What do they call the other one? Spanglish? Or, you know, things like that. It's just, yeah.

But I did hear from Richard Simcott. He actually manages to do a lot of languages from Eastern Europe, and he has, I mean, a lot of them have similarities and he manages to get to a pretty good level in them. But I think that's the thing is the getting up to a high enough level to that really C1, C2 level and then starting another one in the same family. Like for me, just...

And maintaining it, right. I saw Luca Lampariello, he was talking about his language learning, and I was like, man, I'm so jealous. But he's not married. He doesn't have kids. And he was saying, I think he speaks probably maybe six to eight languages at like a C1 or above level. You know, he's Italian, he speaks English really well. I think he lives in France. He's got housemates from places like, you know, Greece and Russia and Poland and-

But the amount of work he has to put in to be able to maintain these languages, he's like, so I wake up, the first three hours of my day I'll be studying my week languages one hour each. Then after that, I'll go and do lessons in, you know, I'll teach in all these other languages. And then I have housemates, I make sure that all my housemates, each one is from a different country that I can then speak to in that language.

And I was just like, good God, the amount of organisation that you have to have to be able to manage this and to be able to be consistent is just insane.

That's a big conversation in the- At the polyglot conferences, at the gatherings they always talk about how do you manage? How do you maintain what you already have? Because with the polyglots, I mean, they have so many languages that they're trying to keep at the same time and you have to, like, you have to like, compartmentalise your life into, you know.

Okay, work, I'm going to do- If I'm working as a phone operator and talking to people every day, I want that to be in German. And then if I'm, you know, if I need a roommate- It totally makes sense. And I think that it's, yeah, it's organisation. It's not realistic, I think for probably 99% of people.

Like you said, you have- If you have a significant other, that's going to be challenging. If you have kids more challenging. Like they're so many other things that make that not possible. But I mean, that's his life. So, I think it's hard to...

The other issue is how much you can actually get into one language because the more you pick up, the more you've kind of got yourself spread thin, right. So, you have to decide. And that's why I often talk with my audience about not really idolising polyglots. Most of the time, because they're Westerners who already speak English.

And but the followers that I have tend to be people who it's like, you know, I'm always like, English isn't a joke for you guys. This isn't just a bit of fun. This isn't a hobby. You don't have the luxury of being someone like Steve Kaufmann, who you know, has a career, has the time and energy that he can just dabble in a bunch of other languages because he enjoys it, you know, which there's nothing wrong with.

But a lot of, you know, my followers, it's like, you guys are migrating to a foreign country. You're, you know, setting up a life in this language. You're potentially marrying people in this language. Your doctors, lawyers, you know, you're studying in this language. So, it's like you need to be a sort of all in on this one thing as opposed to thinking of it like, how do I get to a B1 level in 10 different languages in the next two years?

Yeah. And I think people need to give themselves some credit, too, you know. Like learning one foreign language is- That's phenomenal. I mean, if you can get up to a conversational level and, you know, use, like you said, slang with a native speaker to connect, to have that intimacy.

I mean, what else? What more do you want, right? Like, I mean, if you can- Because at the end of the day, what you want to do, I mean, you want to do something that you love, like your work and everything. But you also want to have people, connection, friends, you know, you want to have a life and that's- They're so- I think about that sometimes like, you know, I'm driving or doing some mundane activity.

Just how important it is to really get good at English, for example, like for someone that's moving to your country. It changes everything like...

...Beyond just English, right? Niching down, as your saying, getting very specific with the area that you're going to be living in or the country that you're going to be living in and understanding the slang, the culture, the history, which is why both you and I go pretty strong on that front.

Because it's not so much about just teaching someone a language, it's about helping them get so much deeper into the culture and everything else that goes with the language that they then can develop really, really good connections with people, relationships ties to the culture and the country.

Because- And that was the biggest thing I think I faced with Aussie English. I quickly realised after starting it that a lot of my audience want to improve their English, but first and foremost, they want to fit in. And a lot of them are migrants to Australia, and they want to understand not just the literal "what is someone saying to me and how do I communicate with them?"

But they want to understand how they think, where they're coming from, you know, the deeper, deeper cultural aspects and pop culture and history and everything like that. And so, it's so much more important to learn about those things than just, how do I say, xyz?

Exactly. And that's also, I mean, parts of- Imagine if you're at a barbie- Would you say, "I'm at a barbie?" like, if you're at a barbie?

We use it for both the thing and the place. So, I mean, like the event. So, I'm going to a barbecue or I'm going to a barbie, is the actual like party. It's going to be a barbie. But they're cooking the food on a barbie at a barbie, if that makes sense.

Okay. So, say you're at a barbie. If you're at a barbecue and you're with a group of people and you know about, you know, Australian- Like some facts, cultural facts about Australian history and just culture in general.

Like, you have so many topics of conversation that you're an interesting guest at a party, that's like such a valuable, I don't know, valuable thing to have, like to carry along with you when you're walking in a city, when you're going somewhere. Because you can always spark up a conversation somehow about something cultural, you know, so I love that.

I think most of my listeners may not realise, I think a lot of them will, but many may not that all the content that I'm throwing at them constantly is about so many different topics. And there's probably that one side that's like, Jesus, Pete, this is so like shotgun approach. It's just all over the place.

But on the other side, there's probably those who realise he's giving us so many different things to think about, to talk about, the vocab about, to develop opinions about. So, that when we go out and interact with other Australians or even just other people around the world, we're going to be able to talk about all these different topics and have thought about them beforehand and developed our own ideas.

Because that would be the thing, if I was going to Brazil and, you know, adapting to life there, getting a job there.

Yeah, I'd want to be able to speak Portuguese. But a big part of it would be, I want to be able to have opinions on the government, on current events, on historical events, on- I want to be able to use slang and expressions that other people use, so that when I use them I'm, you know, subconsciously showing them that I give a shit about their country and their culture.

And that I'm trying to connect with them, and that they're going to get that. Like if you were to come to Australia and say, oh, I'm going to a barbie. Even in an American accent, I'd be like instantly and potentially subconsciously, oh, she gets it. She's an American, but she gets what that is. You know, she's taken the time to understand that and is fitting into our culture a little more.

So, it means something when you take that kind of dive and try and learn and pick up these things, right. Have you found that with Portuguese in and around the house or when you've gone to Brazil, the numerous times that you've been there and gotten to know Lucas's friends and family.

Have you made an effort to kind of pick up the slang and expressions they use, so that you can be like, 'ooh, I fit in a little bit more'? And what have their reactions been if you have?

Oh, that's interesting, I'm trying to think of specific words now. You know, it's tricky because Lucas, as I said, he was a musician. He is a musician. He's a- He's got a lot of friends who are also in the music scene, and they're males between the ages of 30 and 40.

And so, I think there's a lot of terminology that they use with like that would not be acceptable for me to use. And there's been many moments where I actually say, you know, certain things like, 'bicho', Like I would never- Like 'mano'. Like I know them, and I hear them, and I just I choose to not use them just because it just doesn't seem like it matches very well with my personality or with being a female.

So, with- I'm trying to think of other things. But yes, I put a lot of effort into learning the language, and so I can connect better, much better now, actually, even after having kids and like, you know, like teaching them and speaking all day, every day and having that constant interaction.

I can connect so much better with my family there, and I realise that the last time I went there just last month. It was a sort of different connection that we didn't really have before because I could understand the complexities of everything they were saying and have deeper conversations, frankly. So, that was very big.

Do they speak English, if I can ask?

No. No, no, no.

Yeah, okay. Because that's what I was wondering. Kel's family's the same. And so, when we go to Brazil, that's one of the things that I fear, where I hope my Portuguese is at a level where I don't need to rely on any English at all to be able to talk about the same things that I would talk about with Kel.

Because the fortunate or unfortunate thing is that with Kel, at any point in time, I can switch to English if I'm having trouble and vice versa, she can too, right.

So, if we get to a point in a conversation where I'm like, ugh, I can think of the word or the concept rapidly in English, I can just switch to it and, you know, she's like, oh yeah, bang. And so, it's going to be interesting when we finally get to go to Brazil once the borders are open.

Yeah.

How I get along with their family because I don't want to be- I want to be able to express my personality and everything as effortlessly as possible in Portuguese. And I have a feeling that there's going to be like a speed limit on it, you know, at least in the beginning where I'll be like, I can't get my ideas out, witty ideas and everything out quick enough.

I'll be like ten minutes later. Hey, hey, hey, Kel's dad, I just thought, I just realised how to say it. And he'll be like, I've moved on, dude.

But you know what? I think that's inevitable. Like, you know, it's going to happen, and I think it's okay. You know, like, you're human. You can't learn everything. You're never going to be prepared for every situation. You can only be as prepared, like, as you can. And you're listening to stuff, you're doing what you can, being in Australia and not, you know, and being working with English. You know what I mean?

So, I think I just reminded me of a situation last time I was there, if I can tell a little story. Because I...

Yeah. Go, go.

So, there was a situation and I mean, I feel like my Portuguese is at a good level now. And but there are those moments, like you said, you know, where you're like delayed or you're maybe not as appropriate as you should be because you don't know how you come across...

You got to get the nuances of, do I use this word or this verb in this exact situation? And you're like, ooh, that was a bit abrupt. Yeah.

Or like your intonation, like, for example, and this sounds like so horrible. Like I was at Lucas's family's house and his cousin is a dentist, right. He's a dentist. And I'm like, I'm constantly making jokes in English like, oh, you know, you get a lot of people with bad teeth? Like things like that.

And so, I said something along those lines in Portuguese and Lucas was like, Shana, do you realise you're in a country- Like it's not a- It's a simple city that they live in. It's not very- There's not as much wealth there. Like, there's certain things that are, you know, it was inappropriate for me to comment on the teeth. Because he could be thinking, oh, she's commenting on not only on my city and maybe the people don't have good hygiene.

You know, she's doing a lot of different things like criticising my culture, where I'm from or my job and stuff. Whereas like for me, I'm just trying to make a joke in Portuguese, you know, like and it totally, totally did not come across that way. And Lucas said, you got to be really careful. But the thing is also- Sorry to keep going, but...

Jesus, Shana. What did you say about his mum? I was just asking about tea.

But no, another thing like, if you think about it too much, it's even worse. Because later on we were with Lucas's, other group of friends and I started like, I start speaking and I'm like, okay, I'm going to- I don't really know which direction I'm going right now. Started a conversation with one of his friends and he was like waiting for me to finish.

And then I started thinking, somehow, the way that I started this thought process, it's going to be offensive somehow. Like, I don't know how to make this not offensive. And then so I sat there and I was like, oh my Portuguese, oh, how bad.

Like, I just can't remember the words. And like, you know, you resort to those sorts of things, but it was because I was also overthinking it. I probably could have just said it and he wouldn't- He probably wouldn't even have had a second thought, but.

Well, I think you need to give people the ability to get offended first and foremost as their first reaction and then allow them- Give them the benefit of the doubt to realise, right. Because that happens all the time, I get people saying, am I allowed to use this slang in this situation? I'm like, just do it. You're a foreigner.

First and foremost, people are going to realise that you're not there, you know, trying to intentionally offend someone if you call them a sheila, you know, even though if I were to do that, people would be like, you know, get the fuck out of here, man. Like, you call me a Sheila. You know, because...

I don't even know what that is.

...It's a woman, effectively. But it's like a very- It's like bloke and Sheila. But Sheila is for some reason, it would be like me coming up to you and saying, you know, what's up, woman?

Oh, okay.

...Like, oh, Jesus. Like, whoa. That like, it almost says this kind of like, sexual- It's not sexual. Sexist bent to it. So, your kind of like looking down on her because she's a Sheila. It's a very common word in Australia, very blokey blokes from like rural and regional areas will use it.

And but you can't kind of get away as a, say, a city slicker kind of guy like me just calling someone a Sheila. They'd be like, go fuck yourself, Pete, you know?

Right.

But I'm always telling my listeners and everything that they're gonna get that you're trying to use Australian slang, you know. If someone intentionally decides they're going to get offended and have a go at you, it's like they're just assholes, you know, that they're not giving you the benefit of the doubt where they should understand that you're not trying to be offensive, you're not trying to be a horrible person.

So, it is one of those interesting things. You just have to embrace those moments and the discomfort and get used to- You have to practise those things. Kids have to practise those things, right. Like before they learn to swear, they don't know when and how they're allowed to swear, they'll use the wrong word at the wrong time and you have to pull them up and say, you can't call, you know, grandma a bitch. You can't do that. It's not okay.

Did that happen?

...No. No. Just as an example, it's like, is this bitch going to give me some peace?

I'm imagining Noah calling your mum a bitch.

Oh, who knows. It might happen one day. You never know. Maybe.

Yeah. No, but...

It is interesting. You have to embrace those things, and I think this ties in. Sorry to interrupt. But it ties in with confidence. If you can get out of your own head and kind of just embrace those moments and be like, look, uncomfortable stuff is going to happen. Situations and miscommunications are going to arise.

But instead of assuming people are always going to think the worst and get angry at me, I'm going to assume that they're going to be able to understand that that's not my intention. I'm trying to have a conversation that's, you know. If I'm not intentionally trying to offend someone, hopefully they can work that out when I'm talking to them, you know.

Yeah. Yeah, it's true. It's the overthinking is the devil in language learning. It's just it's the worst, worst. Actually, in just regular life in general.

When you're in a conversation with a group, you know, if you're overthinking what people are saying and stuff, when you read into things. I mean, you start to like people less, you become a less enjoyable person, you're not even- You're not really connecting with people the way you should be, so.

Well, I found that I'm almost always wrong, too. So, I'll be there, and I'll be like, that bastard, he said this. And I'm like, I bet he hates me. I bet he thinks I'm an idiot. And then you'll dig into it, you know, and be like, talk to your friend and be like, did he think this?

Is this what he meant in this situation? And they'll be like, oh no, you just meant this thing. And you'd be like, why did I just assume the worst? I always assume the worst. You know, like so yeah, try and give yourself a break and give other people a break as well, right.

Yeah, totally, totally. Just got to- Always got to remind yourself. Yeah.

So, how's it been raising your kids in a bilingual family where you, by the sounds of it, is speaking Portuguese most of the time at home? But obviously they're living in America. Their relatives nearby are Americans who speak English. TV's English, they're- I think you said your daughter, Julie, is going to crêche... day-care now. So, how has that been navigating bilingualism with your kids?

So, it's funny. I didn't learn anything about teaching kids two languages before starting. All I knew is that in my community, where I live in California, there are a lot of Mexicans who are raised bilingual and I thought, you know, if this is so normal, like it can't be that difficult. My husband's Brazilian, like, we'll just speak to them, we'll speak to both girls in Portuguese.

And so, we will not speak English to them at all from the very, very beginning. And so, that's kind of how we started. It was just like communicating like that. Even books that are written in English, we'll describe everything in Portuguese. And...

Do you avoid reading the books in English?

I don't- We don't have any English with them, like they're...

If the books in English, you'll describe it in Portuguese, but you won't actually read the book?

I will not, never read. Yeah. And honestly, I am thrilled with the way that Julia speaks Portuguese, like I cannot- I couldn't have asked for a better level for her, especially at her age. Her vocabulary is great, and her English is actually, it's actually behind Portuguese. Because I started comparing today, she's using- She uses- At two and a half, she uses past tense really well.

She uses- She conjugates everything correctly, sometimes when she doesn't conjugate correctly, but mostly all the conjugation is right. She doesn't mix the languages. And I think actually, it's because we had her the majority of the time.

I had- We are very fortunate to have spent so much time with her during the first two years. She didn't start day-care until recently, and her language level was already established, like very much so connect- Like when she sees us, it's Portuguese. There's no English at all. And so...

That's crazy because it's sort of been the opposite for us where both are mixed in now. And I think it happened pretty quickly because Noah understands everything in Portuguese, but he'll quite often speak to Kel and I in a mix and then with other people he'll speak English. And I think a big part of it is that we sent him to day-care from about a year and a half onwards.

So, he's been there for about a year now, and he just within the first few weeks his English took over his Portuguese. Because he was just doing, you know, so much time, eight hours a day, three days a week in English, but also seeing other children speaking English. I think that had a huge effect on him subconsciously or consciously deciding that he'll use this as the base.

And so, it'll be interesting to see how Julia goes with day-care now and whether or not she sees other children speaking English most of the time, and even though she speaks Portuguese the majority of the time at home, if she then is like- What would you say? Identifies more with kids her age and then decides subconsciously or consciously to switch languages.

It's something that we've been thinking about because I think that a friend of mine who is also two actually- Two Brazilians that live in L.A., they say they actually have two kids the same age as well. And they sent their child, their son, to day-care very early. And he has a really hard time with Portuguese. They're both Brazilian, and they both tried to speak to him in Portuguese.

But, you know, once the English took over, they can't really switch back. He's not communicating that way, and they said it's just within that first two years, it's like it was established. Like he can't- Like it's- There's no situation where he's going to walk up to his parents and start speaking in Portuguese, it's just not going to happen.

I think you have to push it. That's the hard part, and that's the thing you have to keep doing, is that you have to keep giving them a reason to want to use Portuguese or to at least recognise that it exists. So, at the moment, I'm doing a lot of games with Noah where we'll be translating from one language to the other. And so, we'll do flashcards where we're, what's this? Horse, okay And I'll be like, Qual a palavra em portugues?

What's the word in Portuguese? And he'll be like, oh, cavalo. And so, he's one, he's recognising that there's two languages going on, but he's also practising both next to one another. But and you're making it fun, he's enjoying it.

And then also trying to interact with families that also speak Portuguese who have kids is a big thing where hopefully that means he'll see, oh, these other children are using this language, too, with their parents. It's not weird. It's not something I'm going to be ashamed of and try and avoid.

That was the thing I was getting to. It's like, that couple told me the language they play in is the language they're going to speak. And I thought, gosh, okay, I wonder if at a certain period of time she's going to say, my parents are speaking Portuguese.

Why are my parents speaking this strange language to me and none of the kids are speaking it? So, I think you've got a point, like having other kids every now and then somehow around them that are speaking the language. So, they see other people their age doing it, I think, would be enormously helpful. Like, I mean...

I think that's the key thing that listeners should be taking away from this if they're trying to maintain their foreign language at home with their kids and they're worried that English is going to take over. Obviously, English is going to become the dominant language because you're in an English-speaking country and they're going to be spending the majority of their time once they're at school in this language.

But you have to give them reasons to enjoy their native language or their parents' native language by showing them that, one, it can be fun, but also that it's useful in that other people speak this language and other people your age. So, try and go to social events on a regular basis with other people from that country or who speak that language, and then make a point of using it.

Right. And I think that being- You being a language teacher and being so involved with languages, you would know that's the right thing to do. And I think, for example, my poor friends from L.A., they're- I think they're going to struggle a lot with this. Like I know they went to Brazil just recently, and I have a feeling it's going to be hard to not see your kid connect as well with friends and family.

And I just think that would be heartbreaking, especially if you are connected to your country, you're connected to your language, you don't want to see- You want to see your kids connect with their grandparents.

And so, I definitely, yeah, think if there is a community somehow connecting- I don't know actually, if it's possible to do online. It's probably not fun to do something like meet other kids online. I don't know. But yeah, if there's a community available, shoot. Yeah.

Well, I think especially if you're in a big city somewhere, right. Like you're in Sacramento, in California, I'm close by to Geelong in Melbourne. Whatever language you speak, there's almost certainly diaspora here or a group of people, I think, you know, like there are groups that I know of Persian speakers, Iranians who catch up in Melbourne, there's dozens of them, you know, there's loads and loads.

And I would never have thought there's a whole Persian community that get together to practise Persian and to get their kids to hang out and everything. And they're like, well, we just made it happen, right. So, you- And if you look up and find that there is nothing there, be the first family to organise something, right.

If these Brazilian friends of yours in Sacramento, it's kind of like, start a Facebook group or, you know, just get online and find a way of creating a meetup thing where even if it's just once a month for a weekend day that you create a picnic in a park somewhere and that anyone who wants to come and either speaks Portuguese or is learning Portuguese and has a family can come and just hang out.

Even if you speak both Portuguese and English just make it about, you know, getting together and you get- You hit all your bases, you get to meet people, create connections, practise your languages, you know, all these things.

Yes, exactly that. Yeah. So, I hope by saying that, like the story about my friends, about the first two years, about sending them to school early, because I mean, that's the case with a lot of people, right. They have to send their kid to day-care and the day-care they're going to be exposed to, like for us, both English, right. There is hope, even if they're playing with other kids, there's other things that you can do to expose them.

And so, I hope I just didn't make it sound as if there was no hope for them, because they- If you push, there always is. It's always...

Well, and I think that's the thing, too, right. It requires work, so it's not going to take care of itself. Unfortunately, or fortunately, you've got to take the next steps to kind of give them activities in these languages and interact with them and watch TV shows in these languages and read books in these languages.

And, you know, give them a reason to make it enjoyable and fun, and they will search for it and try and, you know, then you just need to encourage it.

Yeah. There's also another thing for parents out there that or people that are planning on having kids. I think it's really cool like, both Pete and I are not native Portuguese speakers, you know, this is a foreign language for us. And I've actually realised there are some benefits. Like if you are thinking considering raising your kid in English and it's not your native language, like, don't think it's not possible.

It is so possible, and I actually feel like my limitations when I have them in Portuguese are benefiting them. Like I realised like, because I- It's more likely that I'm going to repeat vocabulary. Like, maybe I wouldn't, you know, go out on a whim and use some funky adjective in Portuguese. So, they'll hear the same adjectives over and over again, which is wonderful for language learning.

They're going to- Yeah, I mean, I feel like it actually is a benefit. Like, it's a good thing. I heard a friend of mine that has kids that are learning a foreign language, she was using vocabulary that was not age appropriate around them. And I was like, dude, like, okay, I wouldn't use this with a teenager, let alone a, you know, a kid, and your vocabulary is too broad.

And so, I actually think it's so possible as a non-native English speaker to raise your kids in English. And I just, I would so, so encourage it because I can see it does work. It definitely does.

And use it as a two-way street, right. It's going to help you improve your English skills, even though it may be the same stuff all the time. It's going to help you build this really solid foundation in the language where that inner core of fluency around that language is going to be really reinforced every single day. And this leads to the sort of second and or- The second? The last question that I kind of have for you.

Have you found that being in a family, it's been actually difficult once you get to that kind of proficient level to keep improving? Because you talk about the same crap all the time at home. Because I find that it's always- (clears throat) Sorry. Got a bit of a dry throat at the moment. It's always the same kind of conversations you realise that you end up having day after day after day with the kids, with your wife, with your husband.

And so, it's been difficult for me. I've had to go above and beyond to try and keep improving my Portuguese in terms of vocab and expression usage and everything like that. Because I just it ends up being the same thing. But by the same token, I realise how strong my base now is in Portuguese, where I am really, really good at using the sort of, you know, most common 5,000 words and verbs and everything like that.

Because it's just every single day, it's the same stuff, it's the same stuff. So, there's kind of a good and a bad. Have you noticed that as well? And how have you kind of tried to keep improving your Portuguese?

Yes, most definitely. And I have to say it's- I see the upside of it with when I watch something in Portuguese or when I, you know, I have some exposure, I really- Every new vocabulary word I really understand from context, like just based on what's happening, I can pretty much figure out what is being said, which is, I think, the coolest thing when you get that very strong core down, that intermediate core like, upper intermediate core.

Like you really start to understand a lot more.

As for like, you know, really building my vocabulary, I would say I'm at a stage right now where I'm not regularly actively building it, because it has been a little bit challenging. And I would say that like, the things that I have done most recently, I think, too, improve is doing- When I have a moment without the girls screaming in the background, I do clubhouse.

I do use the Clubhouse app to- Yeah, which I know there are rooms to practise English in there as well. I'm not sure if Australian English, but. And I do that for Portuguese, I watched the shows as I mentioned, Julia's shows, and right now, that's pretty much it.

What I think would be ideal in an ideal world to be a very good language learner, I would probably take the topics I talk about on the podcast and try and describe them to Lucas in Portuguese. I think because the information becomes so firm after researching it so much. I think like retelling those stories, it would be unique, it would be interesting. Like it would be something that would be a challenge, for sure.

And I think also, you know, people that are listening to your podcast, if they were to practise English, say if they have a significant other to sit down or just even a friend, you know, and retell the stories that you're telling, because you have so many cool, interesting facts about the country and culture.

Like if they retell it, it's going to reuse maybe some of the same vocabulary you used. That's maybe not in a regular, you know, like usage tank. And they'd also just, yeah, get to practise like different things. So, in my ideal world, that's what I would be doing. I would be, you know, doing that on a regular basis.

So, no, I wouldn't say that I am doing something. I'm not as proactive at the moment as I would like to be, but definitely in the future there's, you know, like probably when I want to. Because the desire also has to be there. Right now, I'm not feeling very interested in adding much more. But yes, I will.

Brilliant.

What about you?

It's the same thing, I've tried to incorporate a lot of study, recently I was reading some of Game of Thrones, and then I was listening to a podcast that would discuss each of the chapters in the book for Game of Thrones, which is really good.

Because it was kind of like, you absorb the chapter and then you get to hear two people having an informal conversation about that chapter and everything, they recap the events and everything. So, it was kind of a really cool way of reinforcing what I just learnt.

But again, it's just the time management thing and getting into a rhythm and a routine, especially with two kids being in lockdowns where we can't use day-care, we can't see people, my parents can't help out with the kids. It's just been a nightmare trying to juggle those things.

So, I've just had to get to that point of being like, just sail through, try and get through all of this. And then later, there's always later. You can always, you know, sort out a better routine in the future, once the young children have kind of grown up a bit.

That is the key, sorting out a routine where it is- It's right to do your language study. I think, having that routine is so key. Oh, man.

And making it enjoyable so that it's something you look forward to, it doesn't feel like work. So, if it is, you know, Game of Thrones was why I picked it, and a lot of people would be like, ugh, why on earth would you read that? And it's one of those things where I just enjoy it.

And so, I was like, well, I might as well just follow this, because ultimately what matters is not the content that you're specifically consuming. What matters is that it's at a challenging level, but also that you're enjoying it and wanting to go and do it on a regular basis, so that there's this little resistance between you and the work and the exposure to the language as possible.

So, if that means, you know, watching vampire movies or listening to a book about physics or engineering, go do it. Just keep getting that access to the language.

So true. So true. Yeah, I like Game of Thrones, too, so. We have that in common.

Man, so Shana thank you so much for coming on the podcast today, I've kept you for about an hour. So, where can people find out more about you and what you do with the American English podcast?

Yeah. You can go to AmericanEnglishpodcast.com or just check out the podcast. Yeah, it's on all podcast applications, so Spotify is where most of my listeners go to. But yeah, any of them will do. So, hope you guys tune in as well. It's fun. I like doing similar work to Pete, we have a lot of fun with the language and culture. Yeah.

Exactly.

Yeah. Mate, well, thank you so much for coming on and I hopefully get you back on in the future.

Thank you. Of course, I'm always- I would always love to, and I would always love to have you back on my podcast also, if anyone wants to listen to that one. We talked about housing, and you got to hear a lot about housing in Australia, so.

And my dream house.

And his dream house, which is definitely worth hearing about.

Exactly. Go check that episode out, guys. Anyway, thanks, Shana. See you next time.

Bye.