Transcript of AE 1145 - Interview: Japan, Language Learning, Cringey YouTube Polyglots & More with David Rajaraman - Part 2

G'day, you mob. Welcome to this episode of Aussie English. I am your host, Peter Smissen, and today I am bringing you the second half of my interview with David Rajaraman. If you missed the first half, go back and listen to that first so that you'll be up to speed on this one.

Today we go through how David grew up bilingual and when he realised that that wasn't the norm in many places around the world, specifically English speaking countries where most people are monolingual. We talk about cultural differences between Japan and Australia, what happens if you lose your wallet in public or how you're treated if you have tattoos.

We talk about tight versus loose cultures, tight being more conservative and strict, whereas loose cultures are more relaxed and open. We talk about the Japanese mafia known as the Yakuza. We talk about how it can be really strange to see certain races of people speaking specific languages as their native languages. So, say a white person speaking Japanese as their native language, or say a Japanese person speaking Italian or French.

We talk about the phenomenon of Westerner-YouTube-polyglots learning, foreign languages and native speakers being shocked when they reach an advanced level, but that this phenomenon doesn't seem to exist in the reverse. And then lastly, we talk about how Japanese is adopting more and more English words into it, and some are even replacing Japanese words like the word vaccine.

And we compare this to languages like Icelandic, where they're making an effort to do the complete opposite and avoid any kind of assimilation of words from foreign languages. So, with that, guys, I hope you enjoy this episode. I give you David Rajaraman.

There's a pretty big Brazilian community around here, around where I live. I think...

Yeah.

...There's a lot of them who kind of live near the Toyota factories, and then there's this other area where there's like a big kind of a, you know- What's it called? Like a settlement of them, almost. Just like probably a 20-to-30-minute drive north from where I live. So...

They have a pretty good deal with Brazil, right? Japan. Because effectively what happened was that after the Second World War, they had shitloads of Japanese migrants that went to Brazil. I had no idea about this until I started doing jiu-jitsu. And I remember meeting one of the guys there and I was like, what the fuck? Your- You look Japanese and you're speaking Portuguese to my coach.

And he was like, yeah, I'm Brazilian. And I was just like, does not compute. Like...

Yeah.

...I remember, this is one of those things that again, for anyone listening who doesn't really understand the context here, I'm being very playful. I have nothing against, you know, Japanese people or Brazilian people of different races. But it was one of these things where when I grew up, you become very, very accustomed to -- in Australia -- the Asians that you meet speak an Asian language.

Or- And or they speak English. And so, when you suddenly meet Asian- People of the Asian race, of an Asian race that speak another European language, it just- Just is so weird. I remember seeing a Japanese actor, an old Japanese actor from the US speaking French in a film once and just being like, my mind is going to explode. Like I just- You just- I have probably seen two people in my life who were Japanese, who could speak French.

You know, it is just such a weird combination. So, I remember just having that moment with the Brazilian guy, but then learning about it. Okay. So, I think Brazil is actually the country that has the most Japanese people in it outside of Japan. And so, they have a deal with Japan where they can send their children back to learn Japanese and learn the culture and everything like that, which I think is really beautiful.

But yeah, I remember I was watching a few of these docos about Brazil and the police, and you just have Asian dudes all over the place with really deep voices speaking in Portuguese like... (Speaks Portuguese) ...And your just like, I just- It just does not look, you know, it's just so weird. It's just so weird getting used to that.

But so, yeah, I don't know, have you met any people of other races in Japan who speak Japanese as their native language? And you're just like, I feel like that would be a very weird thing, too, right?

Yeah, dude, like, this is my first time in Japan. It had been like about eight months or so at the time since I moved and I met this Australian dude, was full weight and he's like- He's just- He looked Australian. He walked Australia.

He- He's- The guy had like this translucent Australian flag hovering above his head and the moment he opened his mouth, like we were on this boat going to an island for like this beach party sort of thing in the summer. And like he just suddenly started speaking Japanese and he sounded like a Japanese person. And then he- And this was like after he and I had been talking in English for a while.

And you had no awareness of the fact that he could speak Japanese really well?

Yeah, no idea. I just thought, like, oh, it's just like another foreigner, dude. Probably here working as an English teacher. And then I digged a little deeper. I was like, dude, you speak Japanese so well. And he's like, yeah, I grew up here. And I was like, what? You grew up here?

And I was like, why did you grow up here? Which is not the sort of question you normally ask someone. But that's all that came out at the time, and...

One: It's such an uncommon experience that you are just inherently curious. Right? Your like, what?

And the story is that his parents were missionaries of a church, and they used to travel a lot. And so, when he was really young, his family moved to Japan and he went to school here and grew up here, so. And I think, like, he's now a naturalised Japanese citizen or something like that or a permanent resident, one of those, and he works in Japan. Like...

That must be such a mind fuck on a daily basis. Right, of just- It must be every single time he opens his mouth with someone who doesn't know who he is and they're Japanese, or even not, right, like yourself. They've come there- It must just be, here comes this interaction again. Like, yes, I'm Japanese. Like, can you please wipe the shock look off your face?

Yeah.

There's been a few of those videos I stumbled across online, and I think it typically always ends up being missionaries or expats who've had kids in foreign Asian countries, and the kids have gone to school locally. There was one, I saw a video with a guy who was- I think he had since come back to or gone back to the US.

But he had grown up for, I think the first 16 years of his life in China, and so spoke Chinese I think as good if not better than his English but looked like me. Right, like was a white Caucasian dude. And it was just so- Again, it was so weird listening to him.

He was getting interviewed in Chinese, but with English subtitles and just being like, there are probably only a handful of people in the world who speak Chinese as well as this guy does as a Caucasian dude. Right? I'm sure there are loads of people who are really fluent in the language, but I doubt they would ever get to the level that he's gotten to because he's gone to school, he's been raised there.

And then there was another one I saw from Thailand, and it was the same thing where he'd learnt Thai for, you know, the first ten years of his life. And you're just like, this is just so weird. And something that I have noticed that I don't really know how to feel about it.

It kind of irritates me to one- Sort of one, respect, but I kind of understand that the other is the YouTube influencer crowd that learn a foreign language to a very high level, often an Asian language like Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and then they constantly do these hot take shock videos where they'll effec-

They'll go into a market and "Matt vs Japan" is a good example. If you want to see someone who's apparently, again, I can't really gauge his Japanese, you'll probably know better than me. But he's renowned for having studied Japanese and he lived there for a very long time and to speak it at a near native level.

I don't know if you'd ever say native, but very, very, very well, so much so that he constantly tricks people when he sneaks up behind them and will be, you know, using Japanese, and they turn around and they'll be like... (shock) ...Like, there's a white guy here. Where did the Japanese dude go? You know? And so, I never know how to feel about those videos because you could never do it in the inverse. Right?

Like if- I can't imagine a Japanese person having learnt Australian English to near native level and then coming to Australia and sneaking up behind me in a market somewhere and being like, you know, g'day mate, have you got any apples? And I'd turn around and there's an Asian guy there, I'd be like, yeah, they're just there. There would be no, wow, that's impressive. It would be like...

Yeah.

...There's millions of Australians who are Asian that speak English with an Australian accent. Like I- There's no impressive- I can't imagine a Japanese channel on YouTube where the person tried to do that. So, how do you feel about those? Do they kind of impress you? Do they grate on you? Are they kind of the kind of thing where you're kind of like, oh, this is a bit- The Portuguese word for this would be "Tosca".

I think it's kind of like lame, kind of embarrassing or lame or a bit like, daggy.

Is it close to like the word corny?

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's kind of like, ugh... (Speaks Portuguese). Yeah.

Or cringy or something along those lines.

Yeah. Cringe is a good one, where it just makes you go, ugh.

I've seen those videos, but I guess, like, they kind of lose their novelty after the first, I don't know, three or four takes where like, you know, after he talks to like three or four different people. But you know, when I do come across them and I kind of, I get click baited into clicking them, I do actually enjoy watching them for those- For the first three or four clips.

And yeah, I wouldn't say rubs me the wrong way. But one thing that does come to mind is I'm always thinking like, wow, you know? Like I'm so grateful that I had the opportunity to learn the languages that I did because I realised only now after travelling to all these different places that it was only normal where I grew up to be, you know, bilingual or trilingual. In most of the world, it's actually not normal.

And I think the other- Probably one of the first assumptions that got broken when I first came to Japan is English is not as international language as I thought it was.

As in they need to learn other languages that are as important or more important than English?

No, no, no. I mean, like with English, like, we would often even say this as a marketing kind of line or tactic when we're selling English courses, even here in Japan. It's like, hey, English is this international language. If you learn this language, you can communicate almost anywhere in the world, right? You can go anywhere in the world and still be understood, even where English is not the official language.

And that's true to some extent, but- And everywhere that I've travelled to, that has been the case. India, Singapore, Malaysia. Right? Like you know... (both talking)

Like in the big cities and if you go to the main hotels and everything, but as soon as you step outside of that kind of like, yeah, you're on your own. You need a translator, mate. You need a translator.

Yes. Yeah. But still, at least in those kind of tourist hotspots, you're still going to be able to navigate. Right? And that's not the case here in Japan. First time I came to Japan, and I just assumed that even that people at airports and banks and places like that would be able to speak some English, but or at least communication level English, and no like I just got blank looks when I tried to communicate with them in English.

This guy's Japanese is so bad.

Yeah. So, yeah. And absolutely, like, I think if the roles were switched, if it was like this non-Caucasian looking dude who's trying to prank somebody in an English-speaking country, it just wouldn't work.

Yeah. I never know whether to think it reflects positively on the West or on Western countries like that, because it obviously goes to show this is no- This is not a surprise. This is totally the norm of having people of all different races and backgrounds and languages that speak English or have grown up here.

But also, does it say something about other countries where it's kind of like, it's still not the norm for non-natives to be learning and speaking that language, which is almost sad in a way. You would almost hope that every single country would have a significant number of people interested in going there and learning the country, learning the culture, learning the language, everything like that, right?

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I mean, these are the kind of guys that I wouldn't like to hang out with much. But I've definitely met certain people when I was in Australia who are like, anybody who comes here, like, ought to speak the language. And to some extent I would agree with that, right? Because that's always been my take. When I go to some country, I make some effort at least to learn the local language there and try and integrate.

But I guess the same is true anywhere, like...

Well, the kind of guys in Australia that will say that are the kind of fuck wits that'll go to Bali, not learn any Indonesian and expect every single person in Bali or Balinese, the language there, to speak English to them. And your kind of like...

Yeah.

...What world do you live in? You just expect everyone to serve you?

With perfect pronunciation on top of that as well, right? Like it's not enough to even speak basic English. Like, they've got to be- Like, I can't believe he said it that way kind of thing, you know?

Well, and I think they're those kinds of people that are just always going to find a reason to make themselves feel better than others. You know? Like if you were to come in and you're a foreigner and you were trying to say, you know, "g'day, mate" and you had an accent, they'd probably be like, who's this guy?

What are you trying to do? But then out of the other side of their mouth, they'll be like, he needs to learn English and speak like an Aussie.

Yeah.

And you'll just be like, well, what do you want, mate? Like, what are you expecting? Like...

I once got told off for pronouncing 'tomato' as "tomato".

Told off?

Told off. I kid you not. And this was by this dude who was- Who didn't seem to like me very much anyway. He was a manager at this fast-food place that I was working at for not very long.

Yeah.

But he used to give me a hard time about a lot of things, and this was one of them.

I think it's one of those things that probably also stems from American English, where we have like a pet peeve with Americans mispronouncing certain words, or at least again, it's not really mispronunciation if that's their, the way that they pronounce it. But yeah, definitely grinds on you when you'll randomly hear that "tom-ay-to" and you're like, ugh! Do you say "puh-taa-toh" instead of "tuh-maa-toh"?

I mean- Yeah, so it would be like we have "tuh-maa-toh" and "puh-tay-toh" and they kind of reverse. They take "potato" and they have "tomato, potato". But I feel like, yeah, it is one of these things where you just have to get used to it.

Sometimes they'll have- There's a whole- It's weird. The fruit and veggies are one of these things where the words change all over the place. British English will have like, is it aubergine? Or whatever it is. They'll use the French word for "eggplant".

Yeah.

We just call it eggplant. The Americans would call it eggplant. We'll say capsicum or capsicum, and they'll say- What's the one? They'll say pepper.

Green peppers.

Yeah. And I'll be like peppers are hot...

Go to subway.

...Are hot.

America, they'll ask you if you want some green peppers on that.

Oh, man. The worst is when you hear people say like, jalapenos, can I get some jalapenos? And you'll be like, your fucking-what? It's so funny how you get used to saying it with the Spanish pronunciation, so jalapenos or jalapenos, I think would be the way you would say it. But yeah, some people will just read it phonetically and be like, I'll have some jalapenos and you'd just be like, mate, you are so uncultured. Jesus.

Yeah, yeah. So, bringing it back to Japan, what do you think Japanese people or culture get right? Do you feel like there are some big things there, where your just like, God damn, I wish the rest of the world would do this.

Honesty and integrity. I think they get that right. You can lose anything. You misplace- And any kind of valuable. Necklace, phone, wallet. You'll get it back in one piece with- If it's a wallet with all your cards and your money in it.

Yeah.

And it's just, it's incredible to me. And I'm not talking about the fact that it'll just be left wherever it was that you dropped it. Whoever finds it will go out of their way to take it to the nearest police box, or they'll put it up on a, like on a wall or on a shelf or something where when you come back looking for it, you'll definitely see it.

I think that's kind of a 50/50, a 50/50 thing in Australia. I've had those moments where you would see someone's dropped a wallet and you would, you know, return it to them or give it to someone.

But I have a feeling, I don't know, maybe personally, but maybe broadly speaking, if someone dropped a wallet and there was hundreds of dollars in it, it's the kind of thing where I think they'll probably get the wallet back. But the money would have conveniently disappeared.

Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, it's happened to me a few times, and I'd like- Hey, you know what? I'll be honest, I'm one of those guys where if I did find a wallet on the ground, like I used to be that guy who would kind of see if- Definitely, first of all, open it up.

Yeah.

And I would see if I could find like an ID document or something. If I can't, I'll just keep it. And heck, I even have a wallet here in this room somewhere that I found when I was a school student at my school.

Yeah.

This is way back in Breton. This is like, 15 years ago. I still have it. It's a wallet that I found, I picked up...

You're still looking for the guy. (Both talking)

...You're just like, yo, I'm just picking it up. I'll keep walking around until I find him. But, you know, in the meantime.

And, you know, I just decided to keep it, you know. But I think now being in this culture, having been somebody who's lost things and found it back in one piece. Like I was at McDonald's about a month ago, there's a fat chunky wallet, definitely stuffed with cards and probably some cash. I didn't even bother to open it up. It was just kind of left on the counter, right where I was sitting.

And at first, I thought, you know, maybe, you know, the person has just gone off to the toilet or gone to place their order and they just left it there to save their seat. Which is a dumb thing to do, but still. And I just kind of like, waited. I looked around and didn't seem like anyone was there, so I picked it up, went to the counter, and I just gave it to staff. And I said, hey, look, I think somebody forgot this.

I don't think I would have done that if I hadn't, you know, experienced being on the receiving end of that kind of kindness and honesty here in Japan.

What do you think that stems from? Like, because it is really interesting when you look at the different Asian cultures and how different they can be, not just from the West but from each other. Like Chinese culture is very different from Japanese culture and that has, at least from my understanding as an outsider, a very, very deep, long history of just the way that their cultures have evolved.

But with Japanese culture, what do you think that stems from? Is that like something that's just been around for thousands of years and it's just a remnant that has just, you know, held up the entire time? Or is it a more recent thing?

I do think it's a remnant of something that's been around really long time. And there's a video that I saw- There's this channel, by the way, that I'd highly recommend checking out. You might already know this guy.

Yeah. Shoot.

It's this Japanese guy who speaks really good English and...

What's the name of it?

I can't remember now.

So, you're just typing into Google "Japanese guy who speaks really good English Youtube channel".

Are you watching my screen or something, man?

That's the kind of thing I would type in. It's so funny how Google is so good at that now, where you'll just type in the key words and phrases and then bam, the first thing that comes up, you're like, damn, nailed it. Google knows.

Yeah. I'm going to send it to you in a link later. But it's this guy. He just does this like kind of talking head videos where he talks about Japanese culture, Japanese history and he goes into real detail into how things that happened a long time ago, like when there were samurais and swords and stuff like that.

Yeah.

How that influenced, you know, some of the cultural norms of today's Japan.

What's the name of the ritual or cultural practise where Japanese soldiers would kill themselves if they failed? Was that "seppuku"?

It's got a few different- It's got a couple of different names. One is "seppuku", and then the other one is "harakiri", which literally means the cutting of the stomach.

Yeah. Because that always fascinated me growing up learning about that. But- And that seems like the pathological side of honour and integrity, right? Where you are literally unwilling to live with shame of having made a mistake. Right. And so, that you need to pay the ultimate price for a mistake that's happened. And I mean, I'm sure it's much more complicated than I'm, you know, laying it out to be.

But it seems like at times Japanese culture seems to have that, if you fail, it is like the biggest dishonour on you imaginable. And that almost feels like a kind of, from the outside world, a bit of a toxic kind of belief system in that extent, to that extent where it's kind of like you should be able to make mistakes and be forgiven. Right?

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I just found the guy's channel. His name is Shogo.

Shogo.

Yeah. And the name of his channel is "Let's ask Shogo".

Okay.

And he's got this huge channel, but he's got this one playlist titled "Social Problems in Japan".

Yeah. Okay.

And he's got this series of videos on how there are certain... (static) ...Talks about and certain social problems in Japan. And then he tries to kind of link them back to things that have kind of trickled down from Japan's history and the culture many hundreds of years ago.

Yeah. Alright, your going to send me on a deep dive, I think. I'll probably end up binge watching this guy's channel. It always fascinates me, those sorts of things. Another one would be like tattoos. Right. I think potentially the tide is changing and the younger generations are getting more and more accepting of people because of Westerners, probably seeing TV shows where Westerners are covered in Japanese tattoos.

But it is interesting that for so long, I think this was something that was just the- What do they call it, again? It's not the Triads, the- What's the name of the Japanese Mafia? I've had a brainfart.

The Yakuza.

The Yakuza. Yeah. They're the ones that would have the tattoos. Right. And so, anyone who had a tattoo would be associated with them, whether or not they were actually Yakuza, and it would be a big no-no. So, yeah. Is that changing? Do you notice people with tattoos more and more in Japanese culture, or are they almost always foreigners that have come over and you know?

It depends where you go.

Yeah.

So, like Japan has certain cities or parts of cities where you could kind of see them as the equivalent of what are called the ghettos in the US where there's higher gang activity, where there are more broken families and that sort of thing. And kids that grow up there tend to kind of get into that lifestyle themselves. And so, a lot of them, obviously, they'd have tattoos, whether or not they've actually gone into that lifestyle completely.

I mean, even if they haven't straight on joined the Yakuza themselves, just being- Just growing up in that environment, they'd be much- Like, I imagine that tattoos would be a lot more normal to them.

Yeah.

And so, they'd get into that. And then there's also like music artists who are like, you know, Japanese hip hop artists and people, and I think tattoos and hip-hop music tend to kind of go together.

Yeah.

And that sort of thing. So, you'll definitely see tattoos kind of being more prominent in those circles.

Yeah.

But other than that, I think even now the gym that I'm a member at, all the hotels that I've been to, the public baths. They have signs where they explicitly say they will not admit anyone who has tattoos on.

Is the main reason for that, that people who would be going would feel uncomfortable around those people?

I think so.

Is it also somewhat a way of them excluding people from lower classes by doing that?

I wouldn't say lower classes because I mean, if it's the Yakuza, if it's a real Yakuza who have tattoos, they'd have a lot of money to be able to afford those tattoos in the first place.

But surely as well, they're the kind of people that are probably going to be like, fuck your sign.

Yeah.

I'm coming in.

I mean, I think the police have started to become a lot- Probably more willing to take action against the Yakuza in recent years, so.

Yeah.

Like it's illegal to be- Like how do I put it? If you're known to be a member of a criminal group, you basically just can't do normal life in Japan. Like you can't rent an apartment, you can't even open a bank account. There's a lot of things you can't do...

Wouldn't that just push you even further into it.

Yeah, I imagine it would, so. Yeah, it's- And for people who've kind of left that lifestyle and kind of tried to turn a new leaf, they would resort to basically living their entire lives in cash because they still wouldn't be able to have bank accounts, so.

Really? Far out. You get even blocked from all those things. So, is that just from having a criminal record, though, you would have to have been caught doing something? Or do they just look at you and they're like, nah, your part of the Yakuza. We've decided, boom, you've been written down.

It's probably like a combination of those. Like, I think if you're marked permanently with tattoos, all of your body and even your face, in some cases. I think you're not going to have tattoos anywhere visible if you're wearing long sleeved shirts and stuff, if it's like a proper Yakuza tattoo. But let's say if you're, I don't know, like you're into hip hop and you decide to get a face tattoo...

Yeah.

...Pretty dumb idea if you're planning to have a normal life in Japan. But let's say you did, right, like you're not going to have a bank account.

So, do you see many Yakuza members walking around the streets? Is that a big stereotype from films where that happens or is it just, you know, you never see them around?

Nah, I think it is. I think it's impossible to really identify them.

Yeah.

Because like the way to identify them for sure would be the specific style of tattoos that they have.

The body suits and everything, right?

Yeah. It's like the body suit tattoo. And they would always be hidden if they're wearing normal clothes...

Yeah.

...And long sleeves, so you're not going to be able to tell. But there was I think one time when I was at this rest stop, it's kind of like a circle on the side of the highway equivalent of that in Australia.

Yeah.

And I was in that rest stop and they usually have a little souvenir outlet, and I was there with my wife and the dude next to me was looking at the souvenirs, he seemed to have- He was wearing a sleeveless t-shirt and he had what appeared to be a Yakuza style tattoo. And I don't know for sure if he was a member of it or if he just thought it looked cool.

Suddenly you start a conversation with him, and he's got an American accent and he's like, oh, no, mate, I just got this tattoo sleeve.

But yeah, I mean, he seemed- He was there with what seemed to be his wife and his kid. So, I don't know, like maybe he was a former member or he's currently a member or he's just thinks it looks cool. I don't know.

What would happen if you were to ask him, "are you in the Yakuza?"

If he wasn't, he would probably take offence at that. If he was, he'd probably just be friendly about it. I don't know.

Oh, really?

Yeah. Or I don't know, maybe he wouldn't want me to bring attention to it. But then again, he's got his tattoo out for everyone to see, so. I don't know.

Yeah.

No idea.

See, these are the kinds of things that if I think if I was in Japan, I would have no idea about the cultural sensitivities around. I would just be like, hey, man, Yakuza? And Pete didn't come back to Australia. Yeah.

I was at the very least tempted to say nice tattoo, because I do...

You open the door. You open the door to the conversation. Well, you know that I'm in the Yakuza, so that's why.

I mean, I've always wanted a tattoo of my own. I don't have any.

Yeah.

But when I was growing up, I was always thinking to myself, man, when I become an adult and I'm independent, I want to get a tattoo, just because I used to think it looked cool. I still do. I can really appreciate a well-done tattoo, but...

The problem now is that everyone's got them. So, it's no longer kind of, you know, you're almost conforming to the crowd if you now get a tattoo because pretty much everyone goes through that rite of passage the moment they turn 18, right? They'll get something that they'll regret later on.

Even I've got one on my wrist and that's it. And I'm just almost like, I might get it removed because it just doesn't mean anything to me anymore. I don't really care and almost- It's almost now because it's less common to see people with no tattoos that you're kind of like, I wish I had no tattoos so that I could now not be in the herd, the sheep herd. Right?

Do you see many people in Japan, if they do have tattoos with English tattoos? Like there's that trope in the Western world where people always seem to get Asian tattoos, whether or not they have any connections with, you know, Japanese culture or Chinese culture.

And I think it's probably because the characters from these languages like Japanese and Chinese characters, are so beautiful that people would much more readily put them on their skin than, say, English writing. Although you know, I'm sure loads of people have English writing in the western world, too, as tattoos. But do you- One: Do you notice any Japanese people with English tattoos where they don't speak English?

And two: Is English writing ever sort of seen as beautiful itself? Or is it just sort of like, eh?

You know, there's a word for that in Japan.

I think- I can't remember if this is correct, but I think it's called... (Speaks Japanese) ...Or- Which means "decoration English" or "English for decoration". And it just- That's just this kind of category of- It's categorically describing English that is used purely just because it looks fancy, and not necessarily because there's any real purpose behind it or because the people who are using it even understand what it means.

And I think that happens- It happens with food packaging, product packaging, signage, pamphlets, brochures, and it definitely happens with tattoos as well.

Is it because it carries a certain level of prestige?

I think it's- I'm not- I don't- I'm not really sure because I don't get it myself. Like, I don't think it necessarily looks cool. It's pretty normal to me. I think it grabs my attention when the English is weird, and I can have a bit of a chuckle.

Yeah.

Right.

They did that intentionally on posters.

And it makes those posters or those products more memorable because I remember laughing at the weird English always was on them. But other than that, I don't really get what the appeal is. But I imagine that it's going to be similar to how we as English speakers find, you know, Japanese or Chinese characters attractive or interesting.

Yeah. Is Japanese as a language getting infiltrated more and more with English? Because I've heard of this a few times where not necessarily just with Japane- I think Hindi is another really common example where it's becoming "Hinglish", where there are so many English words now entering the language that the average Indian Hindi speaker now no longer speaks pure Hindi and could not communicate properly if they were to only use Hindi because they rely on so many words and expressions and concepts that come from English.

I've heard that that's happening in Japanese as well, where I don't know if it's like all new things get- The English word just comes over and gets given Japanese pronunciation, or if it's becoming trendy to just use English in certain contexts and certain expressions. What's it kind of like on the ground there in Japan for you, who's learnt Japanese as a foreign language?

I think the perfect example of that has been like the words that are being used in regard- When discussing anything related to COVID.

Of course. So, words like "social distance, vaccine", there are equivalent terms for this in Japanese...

Yeah.

...That mean exactly the same thing, but they're just very rarely used. Instead, we often hear even in the news, we hear "social distance and vaccine or vaccine", right, which is, you know, the word vaccine that's being pronounced with the Japanese- In the Japanese way. Because when you spell it out in Japanese, that's how you'd- You'd have to write it.

Yeah.

And if- I think there's some- It makes a little bit more sense in Japanese. Or I think it makes a little bit more sense when with what you see in Hindi because the same is true with my mother tongue, in Tamil. There's so many words that where we just import the English word because there is no equivalent in Tamil for it.

Yeah.

And...

...That'd be like COVID, right? You're not going to be like, okay, so we need to come up with "Corona virus" in Tamil and then we need to abbreviate it to create our own version of COVID-19. You would just be like, just take COVID and use it. Just pronounce it how we would with the phonemes that you've got in Tamil.

Right. Exactly, yeah. And say for example- I mean, my dad was an engineering lecturer and he and I, we would have conversations about English and Tamil all the time. And he was one of those guys that as a hobby, he was really into kind of just analysing the differences between languages and he'd tend to think out loud every once in a while. So, maybe some of that rubbed off on me.

But he'd always talk about like, hey, you know how we have this word in English? Do you know what the word for that is? I'll be like, no. Because- Yeah, because there is no word for it. Okay. What's the point? Where are you going with this? But that was just the entire conversation, he just wanted to get that off his mind.

I think the same is true for Hindi, but with Japanese it's interesting how they actually have Japanese words for even like really scientific technical words in English. And so, if they wanted to and they definitely can use entirely Japanese words for everything. But I guess they just choose not to in some cases, I'm not really sure why.

Well, that is what interests me so much, right. Because I was learning a little bit of Icelandic back in the day just because I had a really deep interest in the closest language that's still spoken that is what the Vikings used to speak. Right. So, Old Norse was the language in that later became Swedish, Norwegian, Danish and Icelandic.

But Icelandic maintains a lot of the complexity and the grammar that Old Norse had, whereas Swedish, Danish and Norwegian has become much easier. They got rid of a lot of the more complicated grammar. But Icelandic has made a conscious effort to remove any foreign words from their language.

And when they want to use- When they want to come up with a word for, say, COVID or TV or, you know, automobile, they will dive into the sagas, their books from the Viking Times and try and draw out vocab that's no longer used, although they'll find some way of kind of explaining what it is, like picture screen or something instead of television.

So, it always really interests me how there's obviously no individual person who ever decides, okay, we're going to import a shitload of words from English into our language now and it's cool. Or here, we're going to just absolutely make sure zero foreign words ever come into our language because that's cool.

So, it is all almost- It's just really fascinating to work out what the kind of social agreement is and becomes and why some languages like obviously Japanese and Hindi find it really appealing, whatever the reason is for using foreign words, and they'll then end up down this sort of slippery slope and just keep bringing them in. And I imagine it's typically nouns that they're going to be just importing shitloads of words for.

It's probably not going to replace things like verbs or grammar, more complicated grammar. But as someone who likes learning foreign languages, it's almost something I really don't want to encounter. Like, I hate when I'll be speaking Portuguese and I'll be like, Kel, how do I say "milkshake"? And she would just be like, milkshake. Or I'll be like, how do I say, you know, "personal trainer"? And she'll be like, personal trainer.

And I'll be like, God damn it, you're just putting a Brazilian accent on top of the English version of these things. And she's like, that's what we use. We never came up with our own or you know, it was just too much effort.

I'm like, but you have the words "personal and trainer" in Portuguese. Did you not think that you could just put those two together? So, I always find that just endlessly fascinating. But when I learn a foreign language, when I'm learning Portuguese, I'm always like, oh, damn it.

It's another one of those things where I have to remember, okay, I need to use the English word, but put on an accent because it sounds weird if I'm speaking Portuguese and suddenly say milkshake with an Australian accent or something.

Yeah, yeah. That's actually the one time that people- That I get kind of caught out by my colleagues at work because...

Your mispronouncing English words with no Japanese accent.

Exactly. Exactly. Like I often get complimented on my Japanese. And more so recently, like when I was doing this kind of phone interview sort of thing, the dude who did the interview, he was like, so how long have you been in Japan? When I told them, like, he didn't believe me. Like he thought that I'd actually been here for much longer. And he just said, look, your Japanese sounds really good. And I thanked him for it. Right.

But when I'm at work and like when I say- I can't remember what it was. But I said something the other day and like my boss, he just straight away, he just started like teasing me by imitating my accent, which is saying the English word, the normal English way. Right. And he was like trying to- He's trying to mimic the way I pronounced it.

And you're just like, no, mate, you're mispronouncing it. This was originally English. You're the one mispronouncing it. And he's like, no, you are.

So, that happens to me a lot, actually.

Far out. Mate, I think we've gone for an hour and a half, so I'm aware of your time. Thanks so much for coming on. I really appreciate it. We've got to keep chatting about this sort of stuff in the future because I- Yeah. It is just endlessly fascinating, this sort of the differences between cultures, seeing one culture from the outside as someone who's migrated there and getting a window into it.

And that's what I hope, I guess that the Japanese listeners here get out of this, I hope they haven't been offended by any of this sort of commentary from, you know, the outside in. But hopefully they found it really interesting to learn a bit about, yeah, how people who aren't originally Japanese see Japanese culture.

Because I always love having these conversations with people who move to Australia. One of the first things I ask is like, what do we do that's weird? Like, what do you guys see when you come here? What's the first thing that you come across and you're like, "Goddamn, that is so strange"?

So, you know, my wife would be like, arriving on time to things. She's like, anyone who does that in Brazil is seen as a massive weirdo. I'm like, wow, I thought it was just politeness. Anyway, David, thanks for coming on. Where can people find out more about you and what you do?

"SpeakLikeDavid" on tiktok or speaklikeDavid.com. And a new project I'm working on, it's called "WizardofBoss.com. It's probably not up and live yet, but you'll see more of that coming later this year.

Any teaser there about what's going to happen with that? Is that related to English or is that something completely different?

It's not related to English. It's going to be stuff related to marketing, copywriting, stuff like that.

Awesome.

Yeah...

And what was the URL again? Give us another plug.

Sure. WizardofBoss.com. It's like Wizard of Oz, but it's a play on words.

Gotcha.

WizardofBoss.com. And for what I'm doing right now, with cars and my motorbike, I'm on YouTube "Tach on red".

Man, you're an animal. How do you find time for all this?

I don't.

The truth. The truth. Awesome, dude. Well, thank you so much. And I'm looking forward to chatting to you again about this stuff in the future.

Yeah. Thank you so much for having me, Pete. You have a great day. Great week.