Transcript of AE 1152 - Interview: How to Build an Online Business on Instagram with Camille Hanson – Part 2

G'day, you mob! How's it going? Welcome to this episode of Aussie English. Today is Part Two of my interview with the amazing Camille Hanson. Camille is an online English teacher, and author, a language learner, a mum to three, and she loves travelling around the world, embracing other cultures and obviously learning the languages in those countries.

So today, guys, we have a chat about how Camille ended up becoming an English teacher and how she started her online business. We talk about how she's a husband and wife team, so her husband works close with her as an entrepreneur online, too. We talk about how they grew their business online, having realistic expectations around how long it takes to, quote, make it.

We talk about the importance of finding your niche and whether or not you should be worried if there's a lot of competition in your niche in online business. We talk about Instagram, Tik Tok and YouTube, and how to grow your audience on these different platforms. You know, it requires sort of different plans of attack. Some of these things aren't all the same, right. And then lastly, we talk about how to develop your content and find what will work for you on these different platforms. So, guys, without any further ado, I give you Camille Hanson, slap the bird and let's get into it.

So you're an English teacher and you have an online business teaching English. How did you get into that?

Yeah, that's a good question. So I'm not an English teacher by trade. I didn't go to school to teach English. So it's been almost two years since I've been teaching online and it came from my love for language learning and I realised I was doing a lot of exchanges, so I was helping people learn English when they were helping me learn these other languages. And I was like, I really like helping people learn English. And then I kept having people tell me, 'Camille, you should start a YouTube channel.' And it happened three times. And then I was like,

Done.

Like, maybe this is it. So my husband's like, if it happens again and it did, it happened again. And so then we're like, 'Let's just go for this, let's start it.' And it was right in the pandemic. So we actually had plane tickets to move to Spain in May of 2020. The pandemic hit. It just didn't make it possible. So in May we started brainstorming and coming up with a plan for- YouTube was going to be our main thing. And YouTube, funny enough, is my smallest audience right now. I ended up teaching- starting Tik Tok when we were travelling and then in Instagram as well. And I mean, you create a lot of content, but it's like, okay, how can we make a living from our content? Because YouTube pays me like $30 or $40 a month, you know, from- from my videos.

It's not sustainable. So that's when I created an online course. And then I started writing books and then I started getting other companies reaching out to me, asking me to sponsor me, to create a reel for their project, for their product, or for their app or things like that. Recently I just accepted an amazing job. I will see if I like it or not, but it's actually filming a course for- an English course for somebody else's company in Singapore, and they found me from YouTube. So I'm like, 'Yay, Youtube!' Because I'm a small channel, really. But they found me from there.

So, and I wanted to originally get you on to talk about growth on Instagram and everything, but maybe we can just sort of talk a little bit about online business for, for people listening who are following- whether or not they're trying to teach a language, if they're trying to or at least considering starting an online business and becoming, quote unquote, 'influencer' in order to sort of get an audience and everything. What other sort of step-by-step things that you need to do in order to, to do that. Because for a bit of context, recently, you- I think the first time you contacted me on Instagram, you were like, I see you've got a sort of big Instagram page, 'Pete, you're teaching English. Do you have any tips and tricks? How can I grow my page?' Everything like that? And I was like, you know, try these things, they might work.

And since then, especially in the last week, I think you've exploded on, on there. And you're probably one and a half times my size now. You know, you've well and truly surpassed me. So you've obviously been doing the right things. Before we get into Instagram, though, what are the sort of step-by-step things you, you had to put into place to start developing your online business?

Yeah, to be honest, it's a lot of trial and error. Because I didn't even know what kind of content I like creating or what people would like. So it's just really my I didn't have a really specific vision. I was like, I want to teach people English. And people are like, you have to have a niche. You have to maybe, maybe just teach English to Brazilians because you're learning Portuguese, which I was at the time. But then that meant that I would be ruling out the whole rest of the world. And so in my mind, I was like, No, I just cannot do a niche. I want to teach English to the whole world. I know it's crazy, but I do. And so I just kept creating content, kept trying things. But you do have to know that you put in a lot of energy and a lot of time.

So I think if you're going to start an online business, I hope it's a passion for you, the thing you like doing. Because it takes up a lot of your time. So for me, it is a passion. It's always been a passion project and so that I've been able to monetise and grow from it. It's just incredible really. But so yeah, a lot of work. And then of course if you're a content creator like me and you, I don't know how to edit YouTube videos and things like that. My husband is a huge part of my team, so he edits and a Brazilian friend in Spain edits my videos. And so there are just many pieces that you're just like, Wow, this takes up a lot of time.

Sometimes a vlog, a ten minute vlog, could take 10 hours of time to put together. And so it's just a lot of work that goes into it. And then, I mean, I was like, I'm going to have 100,000 and the first year on YouTube. And I'm like, coming up, July 1st, we'll be two years. And I just got 7000 today, I think, on YouTube. So it's like- you just like, sometimes I just had huge, like, vision and then it can be disappointing because you're putting in the work and you're putting in the work and you're not seeing growth. So that's why I say you have to love it, because I still, even though I wasn't seeing crazy numbers or growth, I was loving it.

And I know that I was impacting a small amount of people because I was, I would always get positive feedback. My students, I was getting students as well that I was able to teach one on one. And the feedback was always like, I love your teaching style, you're helping me. And so I was like, okay, you know, when you feel discouraged and you get good feedback, it motivates you. It motivates you to keep going. And so putting things in place, I mean, it's- I think it's going to be hard in the beginning. Like we had also a mindset of, 'Okay, we're going to do this for five years, and then if it goes nowhere, if we get nowhere, then maybe we can consider throwing in the towel' Because- uh-oh, battery exhausted on my end on the camera.

It's all good. It's all good. Keep going because I'll use the Zoom video.

Okay, perfect. So I'm talking too much.

Nah, keep going. It's fine. I love it.

Okay, so we said five years, we're going to give it five years. And so we're almost at two. And we've seen, like, especially like you said, I don't know how or what happened, but in, in the past, I think it was about six weeks ago, I started getting 100 people a day on Instagram.

And for me that was a lot. And I was like, I think maybe I'm in the Instagram algorithm. But then it just kept getting more and more. And now like it's like 5000 a day.

Gee, it's insane.

5000 people a day, and I can't even like, I can go back on my Instagram 20 minutes and that's all the notifications I can see, from 20 minutes ago. It just like exploded! And I'm like, I never could have imagined it. Like, this is like a dream for a content creator; to have your content go viral.

I think it's kind of like compound interest, though, right? Like, so you've been, you know, you spent the last two years, as you said, working hard to kind of work out what content you enjoy first and foremost, but then also is helping other people, and is going to hopefully feed into the algorithm. And it's like throwing mud at a wall and seeing what sticks. And then eventually it sounds like, you know, we were chatting and you were just like, I don't know what's just happened, but the algorithms just picked up my stuff and is showing it to way more people now. And so I think it is one of those stories that's really interesting of you can't have that expectation going into online business like this, especially the influencer kind of role, whatever, whatever niche you're in and expect to overnight have this happen.

It's taken you, as you said, two years-.

Two years, yeah.

Of hard work and grinding and then only now is it starting to pay off. So that I think that big message of consistency and persistence, right, is what matters. Yeah. And then also I think it also depends on your platform because TikTok, I had an insane explosion of growth in Peru because it's also a geographically base. So wherever you are, it serves up to that region. So I started TikTok and within the first, like in Panama, I had somebody recognise me on the streets. I only have like 6000 followers at the time and someone's like, 'Hey, are you Learning English with Camille? You know, I follow you!'

Wow!

I was like, 'No way!' And then I went to Peru and I just created videos that were interesting to me about Peru, and I did them in Spanish. And I think my, my most viral one was like 4 million.

Holy moly!

And then I had several mostly- yeah, I had several 1 million view videos and I was like, 'This is crazy.' So then I had like 100% Peruvian, a little bit of Bolivian, so then 100%, but mostly Peruvian audience following me. But it wasn't like my brand, like Learn English with Camille, you know, like, yeah, yeah. It was like Spanish. It was all in Spanish, you know, interesting things in Spanish. And so I was like, Oh, like, do I just keep TikTok and have it be my travel thing? I still want to reach people with English on there. And so I got back to the States and I was like, I haven't been posting on TikTok at all.

And then I was like, 'You know what? I have nothing to lose. I'm just going to start posting a few of my Learn English with Camille actually speaking in English videos.' And a couple of them went viral, like 2 already viral here, so they went over 100 K. So but it got me like I think 25. No, yeah. No, no, sorry. No, I went from 80 to- I meant 95, 15,000. It got me 15,000 followers from those two videos.

TikTok's weird, isn't it?

It's just so weird because some of the others are like 500 views that I posted after, and I'm like, 'What is wrong with TikTok algorithm?' It's so strange.

TikTok's- yeah, it's a weird one, but I think yeah, the story here you're telling, it sounds like you need to get on multiple different platforms and kind of try them out and even try completely different styles, right. Like you were saying in Peru, you're speaking in Spanish and seeing how that goes. And if you were to be staying in Peru and living there permanently or something, it would probably make a lot more sense to go down that niche of speaking Spanish, potentially teaching English in Spanish, you know? So yeah.

So once you once you've obviously tried these out and you worked out what's working now. So it sounds like you're saying Tik Tok is working pretty well. Instagram's skyrocketing at the moment. YouTube's a bit slower.

Yeah, yeah.

Do you kind of adjust what you're doing and then focus on the one that's really working? Or are you still kind of trying all three simultaneously to level them all up together?

Yeah, I think I'm seeing people from Instagram now following me on YouTube, so I've noticed my numbers are up on YouTube. I'm getting more, but I've never had- I've never gotten in the algorithm on YouTube. You know, I think-.

It's hard.

My top viewed videos with my dad Yooper English and it's like 40 K. So that's like my top, you know. We're trying to create one video a week for YouTube, be consistent with that. And then I started posting a few of my Shorts on there as well. You just- I'm just trying things. I don't know. Like I don't know if the Instagram algorithm will continue in my favour for- I- I just don't know. You just can't control these things. So my goal is just to keep creating good content. That's always been my goal that will help people learn English, and that I enjoy creating as well because I think that's important.

So how did you decide to monetise your business? This is always a really interesting question to ask people. What was that sort of point when you were like, 'I can make money from this.' And then being like, 'How do I make money from it?' And then actually having the money come in as, as people purchasing, or your products or services.

Yeah. So I think- I know it is weird, but I feel like with the more followers you have, you kind of feel more validated, like in the sense of like, 'Yes, my products are worthy!' Like, I believe in my courses and books now more that I have more followers than when I have like 2000 followers, even though they're the same thing, and they're good products. So I decided, I think a year in, my husband. It was my husband, he was like 'Camille, like we haven't made-' we're actually negative. We're like-

We spent hours and money on this. Yeah.

Yeah! Like we're minus thousands of dollars from buying equipment and cameras and things like that, maybe just like two or 3000 minus, you know, but never paying ourselves. If we were to have to pay ourselves for the work and hours we put in.

Exactly.

Minus 50,000, you know.

So I guess to pause you quickly there, another thing about starting these sorts of online businesses, too, is being aware of the fact that there is an initial investment in terms of your own money to buy equipment and online products and websites and all that, but also your hours that need to be spent on this thing, too, right?

Yes. Yes. So about a year end, he was like, I think we just need to start now, you know you've been at this for a year and I think we just need to create products now and like start having things that people can purchase and buy. And that was like scary at the beginning. It was weird, selling my products. I was like, 'Who's going to buy it?' Like, it's good, but like, are they going to buy it? And you just, you doubt, you know, and you have insecurities about your product. But then I think, I don't know if you can relate, but the more that you create courses, the more that you write books, the more that you grow yourself in.

Like, I'm learning so much about English, writing these books and creating these courses and teaching people and things like that. Then I'm like, 'No, like my time is worth being paid for my services.' Like, I believe in them. I think they're good. So I think like you have to believe in them for others to believe in them. Really, I think that's an important step.

Wow. And to be on that that journey of wanting to improve and wanting to learn at the same time, like you don't need to be an expert when you first begin. Obviously, you want to be trying to, to learn and be ahead of the people that you're trying to serve, right, with whatever product or service it is. But at the same time, you don't have to be some genius with 50 years experience in the English teaching world in order to be able to create a course and get it to people that's going to help people.

Yeah, exactly. Which is cool. Which I love for sure.

Yeah. Awesome. So are there any other big lessons with the online business that you've kind of had to learn whilst, whilst doing it all? Was there a point where you were like, 'This is it. We've done it. We're millionaires, we're set for the rest of our lives.' Or is it an ongoing process?

No, I wish. No.

That was a loaded question.

Yeah. I mean, my goal is to continue to create good products. So I have a three year vision to release ten books. So books are just the avenue. I actually really love writing books. So I'm about to release a pronunciation book. I'm working on a modern day dialogue book with conversations. I want to help people with grammar and work on a grammar book. So there's a lot of books that I have in the next few years that I hope to release, and hopefully those will get in the algorithm too, so that we can get...

On Amazon.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. But I feel like it's just trial and error. It's just trying things. I, I, it's also like learning from other content creators, asking them, what do you do? How do you do it? People that have already gone ahead of you, people that have bigger audiences or are successful with their courses or with their books and learning and growing from them, being open minded. And being willing, willing to adapt to yourself and just change things if you need to. And I think to not let yourself get discouraged or be too hard on yourself as a content creator as well. Be proud. Be proud of the work that you've put in.

Should you be intimidated by the amount of competition out there?

It can be intimidating, but I think it's not good to go down that road. Because it's just like a never ending cycle. You know, I think look at yourself, see how far you've come, look at others to be inspired. You can want to get to where they're at for sure, but don't do it in a way that you're like, 'Oh my gosh, I only have 100 followers and they have 1 million.' Like, you don't know how many years of work that person put in before they got into the algorithm or before they became successful. We're all on a journey. Our journey looks different. I feel like there's a voice for every person.

If they feel like I'm called to be a content creator or have an online business, I think good. Like, pursue that. There will be a market for you. It'll just take you some time to figure everything out and be creative and make the product that your audience needs or wants.

I think a big part of it, too, is realising that people like different people and hate different people, right? And so there's always an audience for you, no matter- I think what you're like, whether you're the most disagreeable and sort of angry person or whether you're the most lovely, friendly, beautiful human being in the world, there's always going to be an audience that's kind of like, I resonate with this person and I can learn effectively with them because I'm engaged with their content.

Yes!

Whereas other people who are in the exact same nation teach a different way, I don't really enjoy and I don't like the same way.

Yeah.

So I feel like that's one of those big things. So you shouldn't be intimidated if there's a lot of competition because it obviously means that there's a lot of interest and a lot of space for people to be in that niche, right?

Yes, totally. Especially with teaching English, there's 1.7 peo- 1.7 billion people trying to learn English. Like, that is insane. When I heard that number, I was like, 'Okay, there's got to be some people that like my style of teaching out of the 1.7 billion'.

One- and how many do you need, right? You probably- I think there's a, there's a few of those sorts of books, you know, that are like 'a thousand true fans' or 'my tribe' and everything.

Yeah!

And the basic message is you only really need a thousand people who purchased something from you. And if they were to purchase a $50 product that's $50,000 a year, and if you are selling 1000 products, that's what like 100 a month or something, three a day. You can sort of work towards that and the numbers become less intimidating and it does turn into a full time job, potentially.

Mm-hmm, exactly. Which I love. Yeah.

So what's on in the future? You were saying you're writing some more books. You're planning to do that. Are there any other big things coming up for, for Camille, and Learn English with Camille?

I think just a lot of content creation. So I've realised that people really like seeing real life conversations. So today me and my husband went out and filmed, checking into a hotel, buying ice cream, ordering at a restaurant, pumping gas. What was it? There's five. There were five. So a lot of creative videos like that. And then I really enjoy collaborations with other content creators like yourself, so I hope to keep doing collaborations. And I'm also really passionate about live interviews like this because I'm curious by nature and so you can expect on my Instagram live interviews with different teachers or interesting people as well.

I was going to ask you, I saw one of your reels went viral on Instagram and I think it was where you were ordering coffee. So it had three, 400,000 views, which is astonishing. But I was going to ask, how do you line those things up? Because you are effectively in a coffee shop and there's obviously two camera angles. There's an angle on you. There's an angle on the person working there and she looks like she is actually working there. It's not like you're fully acting it out, right? That's the person-.

No, they're legit. Like the people we go to, they're legit workers or the people working there.

So how do you line that up? Because I've always thought it would be so cool to do the same thing, but I'm just horrified of walking up to someone I don't know and asking them to effectively act in a video for me on YouTube.

Yeah.

How do you- how do you do that? How do you overcome that?

Yeah! So I just tell them I'm like, 'Hey, I'm a content creator. I teach people English online. And people really would be interested to know how to order in a restaurant. Could I film you? Could you just be normal? Say what you normally would say, but can I film you?' And everyone said yes today.

Everyone wanted to be in the reels. Everyone wants me to tag them on Instagram. So I think it's cool. And today my husband, he had- okay, so he was going like back and forth like Camille, coffee girl. Camille coffee girl. And it wasn't as natural, you know what I mean?

Yeah.

Because we were pausing and my sister is like, 'Camille, you look like you were, like, about to crack up laughing like the whole time.' I'm like, 'I know, it was funny! It was slow. It didn't feel natural, you know.'

You need your husband with two cameras where-.

He had two! Yeah, he had two today. Both. We have the same iPhone. This iPhone is legit. And he was filming both of us like this, different angles. So it felt more natural for the person. They didn't have to pause. It just felt like a natural conversation. So now we'll just see the editing part and how that flows.

You'll need some kind of a gadget where you can just slot them in. There needs to be like a gimbal or something where there's space for two phones that you can kind of like align so that you get those-.

I know!

Camera angles.

Hey, maybe you need to create that.

Oh man. Anyway, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. Where can people find out more about you and what you do?

Yeah. So they can find me on my Instagram, which is @camillehanson, on YouTube, Learn English with Camille. Same on TikTok, Learn English with Camille. My website, I'm pretty sure it's www.learnenglishwithcamille.com as well.

Pretty sure?

Pretty sure! I never check it. My husband handles a lot of those kind of things as well. Even my Twitter, he handles it. I've never been on Twitter once, so if he's responded to you, it's not me.

That's not a bad thing. I think if you can avoid getting on Twitter.

Okay, okay. Sometimes it's just too much, you know, too many places. And we're like, we're one person.

Well, you're two. I'm so jealous of you. I wish my wife were just as motivated. And she was, like, helping me with the cameras and all this sort of stuff. She was like, You're on your own, dude.

Oh, man. That's another thing. If you're wanting to start your own thing, like you just- sometimes it's hard to set boundaries. Sometimes you don't have a normal 9 to 5 job. Sometimes you're responding at 7 a.m., responding at 10:00 pm. It's- it's hard to set the boundaries when you're passionate about your project, about your work as well. So that's something else for content creators to consider as well.

And I think you're doing an amazing job. But yeah, once again,

Thank you!

Thank you so much for coming on and hopefully we can have another chat in the future.

Yes, thank you so much. I had so much fun.

My pleasure, mate!

Bye, guys!

See you guys!