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AE 1145 – Interview: Japan, Language Learning, Cringey YouTube Polyglots & More with David Rajaraman – Part 2

Peter — Wed, 18 May 2022 09:00:00 +0000

AE 1145 - INTERVIEW

Japan, Language Learning, Cringey YouTube Polyglots & More with David Rajaraman - Part 2

Learn Australian English in each of these episodes of the Aussie English Podcast.

In these Aussie English Interview episodes, I get to chin-wag with different people in and out of Australia!

In today's episode...

Welcome to another awesome chin-wagging episode here on the Aussie English podcast!

Today’s guest is David Rajaraman! Last time, we talked about how he went from India, to Brunei, to Australia, then to Japan, all in just about 30 years of his life

In today’s episode, we talk about how David grew up bilingual then realised that that wasn’t the norm in many places around the world! This seems to be specifically in English speaking countries, where most people are monolingual.

We also talk about cultural differences between Japan and Australia. Like what happens if you lose your wallet in public, or how you’re treated if you have tattoos.

We talk about tight versus loose cultures. Tight, being more conservative and strict, whereas loose cultures are more relaxed and open. We even talk about the Japanese mafia known as the Yakuza.

We talk about the phenomenon of Westerner, YouTube polyglots who are learning foreign languages and native speakers being shocked when they reach an advanced level! But it’s sort of puzzling why, when non-Westerners (i.e. a Chinese guy) learn English to a very advanced level, people don’t seem to mind at all!

Let me know what you think about this episode! Drop me a line at pete@aussieenglish.com.au

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Transcript of AE 1145 - Interview: Japan, Language Learning, Cringey YouTube Polyglots & More with David Rajaraman - Part 2

G'day, you mob. Welcome to this episode of Aussie English. I am your host, Peter Smissen, and today I am bringing you the second half of my interview with David Rajaraman. If you missed the first half, go back and listen to that first so that you'll be up to speed on this one.

Today we go through how David grew up bilingual and when he realised that that wasn't the norm in many places around the world, specifically English speaking countries where most people are monolingual. We talk about cultural differences between Japan and Australia, what happens if you lose your wallet in public or how you're treated if you have tattoos.

We talk about tight versus loose cultures, tight being more conservative and strict, whereas loose cultures are more relaxed and open. We talk about the Japanese mafia known as the Yakuza. We talk about how it can be really strange to see certain races of people speaking specific languages as their native languages. So, say a white person speaking Japanese as their native language, or say a Japanese person speaking Italian or French.

We talk about the phenomenon of Westerner-YouTube-polyglots learning, foreign languages and native speakers being shocked when they reach an advanced level, but that this phenomenon doesn't seem to exist in the reverse. And then lastly, we talk about how Japanese is adopting more and more English words into it, and some are even replacing Japanese words like the word vaccine.

And we compare this to languages like Icelandic, where they're making an effort to do the complete opposite and avoid any kind of assimilation of words from foreign languages. So, with that, guys, I hope you enjoy this episode. I give you David Rajaraman.

There's a pretty big Brazilian community around here, around where I live. I think...

Yeah.

...There's a lot of them who kind of live near the Toyota factories, and then there's this other area where there's like a big kind of a, you know- What's it called? Like a settlement of them, almost. Just like probably a 20-to-30-minute drive north from where I live. So...

They have a pretty good deal with Brazil, right? Japan. Because effectively what happened was that after the Second World War, they had shitloads of Japanese migrants that went to Brazil. I had no idea about this until I started doing jiu-jitsu. And I remember meeting one of the guys there and I was like, what the fuck? Your- You look Japanese and you're speaking Portuguese to my coach.

And he was like, yeah, I'm Brazilian. And I was just like, does not compute. Like...

Yeah.

...I remember, this is one of those things that again, for anyone listening who doesn't really understand the context here, I'm being very playful. I have nothing against, you know, Japanese people or Brazilian people of different races. But it was one of these things where when I grew up, you become very, very accustomed to -- in Australia -- the Asians that you meet speak an Asian language.

Or- And or they speak English. And so, when you suddenly meet Asian- People of the Asian race, of an Asian race that speak another European language, it just- Just is so weird. I remember seeing a Japanese actor, an old Japanese actor from the US speaking French in a film once and just being like, my mind is going to explode. Like I just- You just- I have probably seen two people in my life who were Japanese, who could speak French.

You know, it is just such a weird combination. So, I remember just having that moment with the Brazilian guy, but then learning about it. Okay. So, I think Brazil is actually the country that has the most Japanese people in it outside of Japan. And so, they have a deal with Japan where they can send their children back to learn Japanese and learn the culture and everything like that, which I think is really beautiful.

But yeah, I remember I was watching a few of these docos about Brazil and the police, and you just have Asian dudes all over the place with really deep voices speaking in Portuguese like... (Speaks Portuguese) ...And your just like, I just- It just does not look, you know, it's just so weird. It's just so weird getting used to that.

But so, yeah, I don't know, have you met any people of other races in Japan who speak Japanese as their native language? And you're just like, I feel like that would be a very weird thing, too, right?

Yeah, dude, like, this is my first time in Japan. It had been like about eight months or so at the time since I moved and I met this Australian dude, was full weight and he's like- He's just- He looked Australian. He walked Australia.

He- He's- The guy had like this translucent Australian flag hovering above his head and the moment he opened his mouth, like we were on this boat going to an island for like this beach party sort of thing in the summer. And like he just suddenly started speaking Japanese and he sounded like a Japanese person. And then he- And this was like after he and I had been talking in English for a while.

And you had no awareness of the fact that he could speak Japanese really well?

Yeah, no idea. I just thought, like, oh, it's just like another foreigner, dude. Probably here working as an English teacher. And then I digged a little deeper. I was like, dude, you speak Japanese so well. And he's like, yeah, I grew up here. And I was like, what? You grew up here?

And I was like, why did you grow up here? Which is not the sort of question you normally ask someone. But that's all that came out at the time, and...

One: It's such an uncommon experience that you are just inherently curious. Right? Your like, what?

And the story is that his parents were missionaries of a church, and they used to travel a lot. And so, when he was really young, his family moved to Japan and he went to school here and grew up here, so. And I think, like, he's now a naturalised Japanese citizen or something like that or a permanent resident, one of those, and he works in Japan. Like...

That must be such a mind fuck on a daily basis. Right, of just- It must be every single time he opens his mouth with someone who doesn't know who he is and they're Japanese, or even not, right, like yourself. They've come there- It must just be, here comes this interaction again. Like, yes, I'm Japanese. Like, can you please wipe the shock look off your face?

Yeah.

There's been a few of those videos I stumbled across online, and I think it typically always ends up being missionaries or expats who've had kids in foreign Asian countries, and the kids have gone to school locally. There was one, I saw a video with a guy who was- I think he had since come back to or gone back to the US.

But he had grown up for, I think the first 16 years of his life in China, and so spoke Chinese I think as good if not better than his English but looked like me. Right, like was a white Caucasian dude. And it was just so- Again, it was so weird listening to him.

He was getting interviewed in Chinese, but with English subtitles and just being like, there are probably only a handful of people in the world who speak Chinese as well as this guy does as a Caucasian dude. Right? I'm sure there are loads of people who are really fluent in the language, but I doubt they would ever get to the level that he's gotten to because he's gone to school, he's been raised there.

And then there was another one I saw from Thailand, and it was the same thing where he'd learnt Thai for, you know, the first ten years of his life. And you're just like, this is just so weird. And something that I have noticed that I don't really know how to feel about it.

It kind of irritates me to one- Sort of one, respect, but I kind of understand that the other is the YouTube influencer crowd that learn a foreign language to a very high level, often an Asian language like Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and then they constantly do these hot take shock videos where they'll effec-

They'll go into a market and "Matt vs Japan" is a good example. If you want to see someone who's apparently, again, I can't really gauge his Japanese, you'll probably know better than me. But he's renowned for having studied Japanese and he lived there for a very long time and to speak it at a near native level.

I don't know if you'd ever say native, but very, very, very well, so much so that he constantly tricks people when he sneaks up behind them and will be, you know, using Japanese, and they turn around and they'll be like... (shock) ...Like, there's a white guy here. Where did the Japanese dude go? You know? And so, I never know how to feel about those videos because you could never do it in the inverse. Right?

Like if- I can't imagine a Japanese person having learnt Australian English to near native level and then coming to Australia and sneaking up behind me in a market somewhere and being like, you know, g'day mate, have you got any apples? And I'd turn around and there's an Asian guy there, I'd be like, yeah, they're just there. There would be no, wow, that's impressive. It would be like...

Yeah.

...There's millions of Australians who are Asian that speak English with an Australian accent. Like I- There's no impressive- I can't imagine a Japanese channel on YouTube where the person tried to do that. So, how do you feel about those? Do they kind of impress you? Do they grate on you? Are they kind of the kind of thing where you're kind of like, oh, this is a bit- The Portuguese word for this would be "Tosca".

I think it's kind of like lame, kind of embarrassing or lame or a bit like, daggy.

Is it close to like the word corny?

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's kind of like, ugh... (Speaks Portuguese). Yeah.

Or cringy or something along those lines.

Yeah. Cringe is a good one, where it just makes you go, ugh.

I've seen those videos, but I guess, like, they kind of lose their novelty after the first, I don't know, three or four takes where like, you know, after he talks to like three or four different people. But you know, when I do come across them and I kind of, I get click baited into clicking them, I do actually enjoy watching them for those- For the first three or four clips.

And yeah, I wouldn't say rubs me the wrong way. But one thing that does come to mind is I'm always thinking like, wow, you know? Like I'm so grateful that I had the opportunity to learn the languages that I did because I realised only now after travelling to all these different places that it was only normal where I grew up to be, you know, bilingual or trilingual. In most of the world, it's actually not normal.

And I think the other- Probably one of the first assumptions that got broken when I first came to Japan is English is not as international language as I thought it was.

As in they need to learn other languages that are as important or more important than English?

No, no, no. I mean, like with English, like, we would often even say this as a marketing kind of line or tactic when we're selling English courses, even here in Japan. It's like, hey, English is this international language. If you learn this language, you can communicate almost anywhere in the world, right? You can go anywhere in the world and still be understood, even where English is not the official language.

And that's true to some extent, but- And everywhere that I've travelled to, that has been the case. India, Singapore, Malaysia. Right? Like you know... (both talking)

Like in the big cities and if you go to the main hotels and everything, but as soon as you step outside of that kind of like, yeah, you're on your own. You need a translator, mate. You need a translator.

Yes. Yeah. But still, at least in those kind of tourist hotspots, you're still going to be able to navigate. Right? And that's not the case here in Japan. First time I came to Japan, and I just assumed that even that people at airports and banks and places like that would be able to speak some English, but or at least communication level English, and no like I just got blank looks when I tried to communicate with them in English.

This guy's Japanese is so bad.

Yeah. So, yeah. And absolutely, like, I think if the roles were switched, if it was like this non-Caucasian looking dude who's trying to prank somebody in an English-speaking country, it just wouldn't work.

Yeah. I never know whether to think it reflects positively on the West or on Western countries like that, because it obviously goes to show this is no- This is not a surprise. This is totally the norm of having people of all different races and backgrounds and languages that speak English or have grown up here.

But also, does it say something about other countries where it's kind of like, it's still not the norm for non-natives to be learning and speaking that language, which is almost sad in a way. You would almost hope that every single country would have a significant number of people interested in going there and learning the country, learning the culture, learning the language, everything like that, right?

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I mean, these are the kind of guys that I wouldn't like to hang out with much. But I've definitely met certain people when I was in Australia who are like, anybody who comes here, like, ought to speak the language. And to some extent I would agree with that, right? Because that's always been my take. When I go to some country, I make some effort at least to learn the local language there and try and integrate.

But I guess the same is true anywhere, like...

Well, the kind of guys in Australia that will say that are the kind of fuck wits that'll go to Bali, not learn any Indonesian and expect every single person in Bali or Balinese, the language there, to speak English to them. And your kind of like...

Yeah.

...What world do you live in? You just expect everyone to serve you?

With perfect pronunciation on top of that as well, right? Like it's not enough to even speak basic English. Like, they've got to be- Like, I can't believe he said it that way kind of thing, you know?

Well, and I think they're those kinds of people that are just always going to find a reason to make themselves feel better than others. You know? Like if you were to come in and you're a foreigner and you were trying to say, you know, "g'day, mate" and you had an accent, they'd probably be like, who's this guy?

What are you trying to do? But then out of the other side of their mouth, they'll be like, he needs to learn English and speak like an Aussie.

Yeah.

And you'll just be like, well, what do you want, mate? Like, what are you expecting? Like...

I once got told off for pronouncing 'tomato' as "tomato".

Told off?

Told off. I kid you not. And this was by this dude who was- Who didn't seem to like me very much anyway. He was a manager at this fast-food place that I was working at for not very long.

Yeah.

But he used to give me a hard time about a lot of things, and this was one of them.

I think it's one of those things that probably also stems from American English, where we have like a pet peeve with Americans mispronouncing certain words, or at least again, it's not really mispronunciation if that's their, the way that they pronounce it. But yeah, definitely grinds on you when you'll randomly hear that "tom-ay-to" and you're like, ugh! Do you say "puh-taa-toh" instead of "tuh-maa-toh"?

I mean- Yeah, so it would be like we have "tuh-maa-toh" and "puh-tay-toh" and they kind of reverse. They take "potato" and they have "tomato, potato". But I feel like, yeah, it is one of these things where you just have to get used to it.

Sometimes they'll have- There's a whole- It's weird. The fruit and veggies are one of these things where the words change all over the place. British English will have like, is it aubergine? Or whatever it is. They'll use the French word for "eggplant".

Yeah.

We just call it eggplant. The Americans would call it eggplant. We'll say capsicum or capsicum, and they'll say- What's the one? They'll say pepper.

Green peppers.

Yeah. And I'll be like peppers are hot...

Go to subway.

...Are hot.

America, they'll ask you if you want some green peppers on that.

Oh, man. The worst is when you hear people say like, jalapenos, can I get some jalapenos? And you'll be like, your fucking-what? It's so funny how you get used to saying it with the Spanish pronunciation, so jalapenos or jalapenos, I think would be the way you would say it. But yeah, some people will just read it phonetically and be like, I'll have some jalapenos and you'd just be like, mate, you are so uncultured. Jesus.

Yeah, yeah. So, bringing it back to Japan, what do you think Japanese people or culture get right? Do you feel like there are some big things there, where your just like, God damn, I wish the rest of the world would do this.

Honesty and integrity. I think they get that right. You can lose anything. You misplace- And any kind of valuable. Necklace, phone, wallet. You'll get it back in one piece with- If it's a wallet with all your cards and your money in it.

Yeah.

And it's just, it's incredible to me. And I'm not talking about the fact that it'll just be left wherever it was that you dropped it. Whoever finds it will go out of their way to take it to the nearest police box, or they'll put it up on a, like on a wall or on a shelf or something where when you come back looking for it, you'll definitely see it.

I think that's kind of a 50/50, a 50/50 thing in Australia. I've had those moments where you would see someone's dropped a wallet and you would, you know, return it to them or give it to someone.

But I have a feeling, I don't know, maybe personally, but maybe broadly speaking, if someone dropped a wallet and there was hundreds of dollars in it, it's the kind of thing where I think they'll probably get the wallet back. But the money would have conveniently disappeared.

Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, it's happened to me a few times, and I'd like- Hey, you know what? I'll be honest, I'm one of those guys where if I did find a wallet on the ground, like I used to be that guy who would kind of see if- Definitely, first of all, open it up.

Yeah.

And I would see if I could find like an ID document or something. If I can't, I'll just keep it. And heck, I even have a wallet here in this room somewhere that I found when I was a school student at my school.

Yeah.

This is way back in Breton. This is like, 15 years ago. I still have it. It's a wallet that I found, I picked up...

You're still looking for the guy. (Both talking)

...You're just like, yo, I'm just picking it up. I'll keep walking around until I find him. But, you know, in the meantime.

And, you know, I just decided to keep it, you know. But I think now being in this culture, having been somebody who's lost things and found it back in one piece. Like I was at McDonald's about a month ago, there's a fat chunky wallet, definitely stuffed with cards and probably some cash. I didn't even bother to open it up. It was just kind of left on the counter, right where I was sitting.

And at first, I thought, you know, maybe, you know, the person has just gone off to the toilet or gone to place their order and they just left it there to save their seat. Which is a dumb thing to do, but still. And I just kind of like, waited. I looked around and didn't seem like anyone was there, so I picked it up, went to the counter, and I just gave it to staff. And I said, hey, look, I think somebody forgot this.

I don't think I would have done that if I hadn't, you know, experienced being on the receiving end of that kind of kindness and honesty here in Japan.

What do you think that stems from? Like, because it is really interesting when you look at the different Asian cultures and how different they can be, not just from the West but from each other. Like Chinese culture is very different from Japanese culture and that has, at least from my understanding as an outsider, a very, very deep, long history of just the way that their cultures have evolved.

But with Japanese culture, what do you think that stems from? Is that like something that's just been around for thousands of years and it's just a remnant that has just, you know, held up the entire time? Or is it a more recent thing?

I do think it's a remnant of something that's been around really long time. And there's a video that I saw- There's this channel, by the way, that I'd highly recommend checking out. You might already know this guy.

Yeah. Shoot.

It's this Japanese guy who speaks really good English and...

What's the name of it?

I can't remember now.

So, you're just typing into Google "Japanese guy who speaks really good English Youtube channel".

Are you watching my screen or something, man?

That's the kind of thing I would type in. It's so funny how Google is so good at that now, where you'll just type in the key words and phrases and then bam, the first thing that comes up, you're like, damn, nailed it. Google knows.

Yeah. I'm going to send it to you in a link later. But it's this guy. He just does this like kind of talking head videos where he talks about Japanese culture, Japanese history and he goes into real detail into how things that happened a long time ago, like when there were samurais and swords and stuff like that.

Yeah.

How that influenced, you know, some of the cultural norms of today's Japan.

What's the name of the ritual or cultural practise where Japanese soldiers would kill themselves if they failed? Was that "seppuku"?

It's got a few different- It's got a couple of different names. One is "seppuku", and then the other one is "harakiri", which literally means the cutting of the stomach.

Yeah. Because that always fascinated me growing up learning about that. But- And that seems like the pathological side of honour and integrity, right? Where you are literally unwilling to live with shame of having made a mistake. Right. And so, that you need to pay the ultimate price for a mistake that's happened. And I mean, I'm sure it's much more complicated than I'm, you know, laying it out to be.

But it seems like at times Japanese culture seems to have that, if you fail, it is like the biggest dishonour on you imaginable. And that almost feels like a kind of, from the outside world, a bit of a toxic kind of belief system in that extent, to that extent where it's kind of like you should be able to make mistakes and be forgiven. Right?

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I just found the guy's channel. His name is Shogo.

Shogo.

Yeah. And the name of his channel is "Let's ask Shogo".

Okay.

And he's got this huge channel, but he's got this one playlist titled "Social Problems in Japan".

Yeah. Okay.

And he's got this series of videos on how there are certain... (static) ...Talks about and certain social problems in Japan. And then he tries to kind of link them back to things that have kind of trickled down from Japan's history and the culture many hundreds of years ago.

Yeah. Alright, your going to send me on a deep dive, I think. I'll probably end up binge watching this guy's channel. It always fascinates me, those sorts of things. Another one would be like tattoos. Right. I think potentially the tide is changing and the younger generations are getting more and more accepting of people because of Westerners, probably seeing TV shows where Westerners are covered in Japanese tattoos.

But it is interesting that for so long, I think this was something that was just the- What do they call it, again? It's not the Triads, the- What's the name of the Japanese Mafia? I've had a brainfart.

The Yakuza.

The Yakuza. Yeah. They're the ones that would have the tattoos. Right. And so, anyone who had a tattoo would be associated with them, whether or not they were actually Yakuza, and it would be a big no-no. So, yeah. Is that changing? Do you notice people with tattoos more and more in Japanese culture, or are they almost always foreigners that have come over and you know?

It depends where you go.

Yeah.

So, like Japan has certain cities or parts of cities where you could kind of see them as the equivalent of what are called the ghettos in the US where there's higher gang activity, where there are more broken families and that sort of thing. And kids that grow up there tend to kind of get into that lifestyle themselves. And so, a lot of them, obviously, they'd have tattoos, whether or not they've actually gone into that lifestyle completely.

I mean, even if they haven't straight on joined the Yakuza themselves, just being- Just growing up in that environment, they'd be much- Like, I imagine that tattoos would be a lot more normal to them.

Yeah.

And so, they'd get into that. And then there's also like music artists who are like, you know, Japanese hip hop artists and people, and I think tattoos and hip-hop music tend to kind of go together.

Yeah.

And that sort of thing. So, you'll definitely see tattoos kind of being more prominent in those circles.

Yeah.

But other than that, I think even now the gym that I'm a member at, all the hotels that I've been to, the public baths. They have signs where they explicitly say they will not admit anyone who has tattoos on.

Is the main reason for that, that people who would be going would feel uncomfortable around those people?

I think so.

Is it also somewhat a way of them excluding people from lower classes by doing that?

I wouldn't say lower classes because I mean, if it's the Yakuza, if it's a real Yakuza who have tattoos, they'd have a lot of money to be able to afford those tattoos in the first place.

But surely as well, they're the kind of people that are probably going to be like, fuck your sign.

Yeah.

I'm coming in.

I mean, I think the police have started to become a lot- Probably more willing to take action against the Yakuza in recent years, so.

Yeah.

Like it's illegal to be- Like how do I put it? If you're known to be a member of a criminal group, you basically just can't do normal life in Japan. Like you can't rent an apartment, you can't even open a bank account. There's a lot of things you can't do...

Wouldn't that just push you even further into it.

Yeah, I imagine it would, so. Yeah, it's- And for people who've kind of left that lifestyle and kind of tried to turn a new leaf, they would resort to basically living their entire lives in cash because they still wouldn't be able to have bank accounts, so.

Really? Far out. You get even blocked from all those things. So, is that just from having a criminal record, though, you would have to have been caught doing something? Or do they just look at you and they're like, nah, your part of the Yakuza. We've decided, boom, you've been written down.

It's probably like a combination of those. Like, I think if you're marked permanently with tattoos, all of your body and even your face, in some cases. I think you're not going to have tattoos anywhere visible if you're wearing long sleeved shirts and stuff, if it's like a proper Yakuza tattoo. But let's say if you're, I don't know, like you're into hip hop and you decide to get a face tattoo...

Yeah.

...Pretty dumb idea if you're planning to have a normal life in Japan. But let's say you did, right, like you're not going to have a bank account.

So, do you see many Yakuza members walking around the streets? Is that a big stereotype from films where that happens or is it just, you know, you never see them around?

Nah, I think it is. I think it's impossible to really identify them.

Yeah.

Because like the way to identify them for sure would be the specific style of tattoos that they have.

The body suits and everything, right?

Yeah. It's like the body suit tattoo. And they would always be hidden if they're wearing normal clothes...

Yeah.

...And long sleeves, so you're not going to be able to tell. But there was I think one time when I was at this rest stop, it's kind of like a circle on the side of the highway equivalent of that in Australia.

Yeah.

And I was in that rest stop and they usually have a little souvenir outlet, and I was there with my wife and the dude next to me was looking at the souvenirs, he seemed to have- He was wearing a sleeveless t-shirt and he had what appeared to be a Yakuza style tattoo. And I don't know for sure if he was a member of it or if he just thought it looked cool.

Suddenly you start a conversation with him, and he's got an American accent and he's like, oh, no, mate, I just got this tattoo sleeve.

But yeah, I mean, he seemed- He was there with what seemed to be his wife and his kid. So, I don't know, like maybe he was a former member or he's currently a member or he's just thinks it looks cool. I don't know.

What would happen if you were to ask him, "are you in the Yakuza?"

If he wasn't, he would probably take offence at that. If he was, he'd probably just be friendly about it. I don't know.

Oh, really?

Yeah. Or I don't know, maybe he wouldn't want me to bring attention to it. But then again, he's got his tattoo out for everyone to see, so. I don't know.

Yeah.

No idea.

See, these are the kinds of things that if I think if I was in Japan, I would have no idea about the cultural sensitivities around. I would just be like, hey, man, Yakuza? And Pete didn't come back to Australia. Yeah.

I was at the very least tempted to say nice tattoo, because I do...

You open the door. You open the door to the conversation. Well, you know that I'm in the Yakuza, so that's why.

I mean, I've always wanted a tattoo of my own. I don't have any.

Yeah.

But when I was growing up, I was always thinking to myself, man, when I become an adult and I'm independent, I want to get a tattoo, just because I used to think it looked cool. I still do. I can really appreciate a well-done tattoo, but...

The problem now is that everyone's got them. So, it's no longer kind of, you know, you're almost conforming to the crowd if you now get a tattoo because pretty much everyone goes through that rite of passage the moment they turn 18, right? They'll get something that they'll regret later on.

Even I've got one on my wrist and that's it. And I'm just almost like, I might get it removed because it just doesn't mean anything to me anymore. I don't really care and almost- It's almost now because it's less common to see people with no tattoos that you're kind of like, I wish I had no tattoos so that I could now not be in the herd, the sheep herd. Right?

Do you see many people in Japan, if they do have tattoos with English tattoos? Like there's that trope in the Western world where people always seem to get Asian tattoos, whether or not they have any connections with, you know, Japanese culture or Chinese culture.

And I think it's probably because the characters from these languages like Japanese and Chinese characters, are so beautiful that people would much more readily put them on their skin than, say, English writing. Although you know, I'm sure loads of people have English writing in the western world, too, as tattoos. But do you- One: Do you notice any Japanese people with English tattoos where they don't speak English?

And two: Is English writing ever sort of seen as beautiful itself? Or is it just sort of like, eh?

You know, there's a word for that in Japan.

I think- I can't remember if this is correct, but I think it's called... (Speaks Japanese) ...Or- Which means "decoration English" or "English for decoration". And it just- That's just this kind of category of- It's categorically describing English that is used purely just because it looks fancy, and not necessarily because there's any real purpose behind it or because the people who are using it even understand what it means.

And I think that happens- It happens with food packaging, product packaging, signage, pamphlets, brochures, and it definitely happens with tattoos as well.

Is it because it carries a certain level of prestige?

I think it's- I'm not- I don't- I'm not really sure because I don't get it myself. Like, I don't think it necessarily looks cool. It's pretty normal to me. I think it grabs my attention when the English is weird, and I can have a bit of a chuckle.

Yeah.

Right.

They did that intentionally on posters.

And it makes those posters or those products more memorable because I remember laughing at the weird English always was on them. But other than that, I don't really get what the appeal is. But I imagine that it's going to be similar to how we as English speakers find, you know, Japanese or Chinese characters attractive or interesting.

Yeah. Is Japanese as a language getting infiltrated more and more with English? Because I've heard of this a few times where not necessarily just with Japane- I think Hindi is another really common example where it's becoming "Hinglish", where there are so many English words now entering the language that the average Indian Hindi speaker now no longer speaks pure Hindi and could not communicate properly if they were to only use Hindi because they rely on so many words and expressions and concepts that come from English.

I've heard that that's happening in Japanese as well, where I don't know if it's like all new things get- The English word just comes over and gets given Japanese pronunciation, or if it's becoming trendy to just use English in certain contexts and certain expressions. What's it kind of like on the ground there in Japan for you, who's learnt Japanese as a foreign language?

I think the perfect example of that has been like the words that are being used in regard- When discussing anything related to COVID.

Of course. So, words like "social distance, vaccine", there are equivalent terms for this in Japanese...

Yeah.

...That mean exactly the same thing, but they're just very rarely used. Instead, we often hear even in the news, we hear "social distance and vaccine or vaccine", right, which is, you know, the word vaccine that's being pronounced with the Japanese- In the Japanese way. Because when you spell it out in Japanese, that's how you'd- You'd have to write it.

Yeah.

And if- I think there's some- It makes a little bit more sense in Japanese. Or I think it makes a little bit more sense when with what you see in Hindi because the same is true with my mother tongue, in Tamil. There's so many words that where we just import the English word because there is no equivalent in Tamil for it.

Yeah.

And...

...That'd be like COVID, right? You're not going to be like, okay, so we need to come up with "Corona virus" in Tamil and then we need to abbreviate it to create our own version of COVID-19. You would just be like, just take COVID and use it. Just pronounce it how we would with the phonemes that you've got in Tamil.

Right. Exactly, yeah. And say for example- I mean, my dad was an engineering lecturer and he and I, we would have conversations about English and Tamil all the time. And he was one of those guys that as a hobby, he was really into kind of just analysing the differences between languages and he'd tend to think out loud every once in a while. So, maybe some of that rubbed off on me.

But he'd always talk about like, hey, you know how we have this word in English? Do you know what the word for that is? I'll be like, no. Because- Yeah, because there is no word for it. Okay. What's the point? Where are you going with this? But that was just the entire conversation, he just wanted to get that off his mind.

I think the same is true for Hindi, but with Japanese it's interesting how they actually have Japanese words for even like really scientific technical words in English. And so, if they wanted to and they definitely can use entirely Japanese words for everything. But I guess they just choose not to in some cases, I'm not really sure why.

Well, that is what interests me so much, right. Because I was learning a little bit of Icelandic back in the day just because I had a really deep interest in the closest language that's still spoken that is what the Vikings used to speak. Right. So, Old Norse was the language in that later became Swedish, Norwegian, Danish and Icelandic.

But Icelandic maintains a lot of the complexity and the grammar that Old Norse had, whereas Swedish, Danish and Norwegian has become much easier. They got rid of a lot of the more complicated grammar. But Icelandic has made a conscious effort to remove any foreign words from their language.

And when they want to use- When they want to come up with a word for, say, COVID or TV or, you know, automobile, they will dive into the sagas, their books from the Viking Times and try and draw out vocab that's no longer used, although they'll find some way of kind of explaining what it is, like picture screen or something instead of television.

So, it always really interests me how there's obviously no individual person who ever decides, okay, we're going to import a shitload of words from English into our language now and it's cool. Or here, we're going to just absolutely make sure zero foreign words ever come into our language because that's cool.

So, it is all almost- It's just really fascinating to work out what the kind of social agreement is and becomes and why some languages like obviously Japanese and Hindi find it really appealing, whatever the reason is for using foreign words, and they'll then end up down this sort of slippery slope and just keep bringing them in. And I imagine it's typically nouns that they're going to be just importing shitloads of words for.

It's probably not going to replace things like verbs or grammar, more complicated grammar. But as someone who likes learning foreign languages, it's almost something I really don't want to encounter. Like, I hate when I'll be speaking Portuguese and I'll be like, Kel, how do I say "milkshake"? And she would just be like, milkshake. Or I'll be like, how do I say, you know, "personal trainer"? And she'll be like, personal trainer.

And I'll be like, God damn it, you're just putting a Brazilian accent on top of the English version of these things. And she's like, that's what we use. We never came up with our own or you know, it was just too much effort.

I'm like, but you have the words "personal and trainer" in Portuguese. Did you not think that you could just put those two together? So, I always find that just endlessly fascinating. But when I learn a foreign language, when I'm learning Portuguese, I'm always like, oh, damn it.

It's another one of those things where I have to remember, okay, I need to use the English word, but put on an accent because it sounds weird if I'm speaking Portuguese and suddenly say milkshake with an Australian accent or something.

Yeah, yeah. That's actually the one time that people- That I get kind of caught out by my colleagues at work because...

Your mispronouncing English words with no Japanese accent.

Exactly. Exactly. Like I often get complimented on my Japanese. And more so recently, like when I was doing this kind of phone interview sort of thing, the dude who did the interview, he was like, so how long have you been in Japan? When I told them, like, he didn't believe me. Like he thought that I'd actually been here for much longer. And he just said, look, your Japanese sounds really good. And I thanked him for it. Right.

But when I'm at work and like when I say- I can't remember what it was. But I said something the other day and like my boss, he just straight away, he just started like teasing me by imitating my accent, which is saying the English word, the normal English way. Right. And he was like trying to- He's trying to mimic the way I pronounced it.

And you're just like, no, mate, you're mispronouncing it. This was originally English. You're the one mispronouncing it. And he's like, no, you are.

So, that happens to me a lot, actually.

Far out. Mate, I think we've gone for an hour and a half, so I'm aware of your time. Thanks so much for coming on. I really appreciate it. We've got to keep chatting about this sort of stuff in the future because I- Yeah. It is just endlessly fascinating, this sort of the differences between cultures, seeing one culture from the outside as someone who's migrated there and getting a window into it.

And that's what I hope, I guess that the Japanese listeners here get out of this, I hope they haven't been offended by any of this sort of commentary from, you know, the outside in. But hopefully they found it really interesting to learn a bit about, yeah, how people who aren't originally Japanese see Japanese culture.

Because I always love having these conversations with people who move to Australia. One of the first things I ask is like, what do we do that's weird? Like, what do you guys see when you come here? What's the first thing that you come across and you're like, "Goddamn, that is so strange"?

So, you know, my wife would be like, arriving on time to things. She's like, anyone who does that in Brazil is seen as a massive weirdo. I'm like, wow, I thought it was just politeness. Anyway, David, thanks for coming on. Where can people find out more about you and what you do?

"SpeakLikeDavid" on tiktok or speaklikeDavid.com. And a new project I'm working on, it's called "WizardofBoss.com. It's probably not up and live yet, but you'll see more of that coming later this year.

Any teaser there about what's going to happen with that? Is that related to English or is that something completely different?

It's not related to English. It's going to be stuff related to marketing, copywriting, stuff like that.

Awesome.

Yeah...

And what was the URL again? Give us another plug.

Sure. WizardofBoss.com. It's like Wizard of Oz, but it's a play on words.

Gotcha.

WizardofBoss.com. And for what I'm doing right now, with cars and my motorbike, I'm on YouTube "Tach on red".

Man, you're an animal. How do you find time for all this?

I don't.

The truth. The truth. Awesome, dude. Well, thank you so much. And I'm looking forward to chatting to you again about this stuff in the future.

Yeah. Thank you so much for having me, Pete. You have a great day. Great week.

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The post AE 1145 – Interview: Japan, Language Learning, Cringey YouTube Polyglots & More with David Rajaraman – Part 2 appeared first on Aussie English.

AE 1120 – Verb + TO vs Verb + SO | Advanced Grammar Lesson

Peter — Wed, 09 Mar 2022 08:00:00 +0000

AE 1120

Verb + TO vs Verb + SO | Advanced Grammar Lesson

Learn English here on the Aussie English podcast where I teach you an advanced grammar lesson on when to use SO or TO after a VERB.

In today's episode...

Welcome to the Aussie English podcast!

In today’s video, I am going to teach you how to master using TO or SO after certain verbs.

This seems to be a massive headache for students, but learning to do SO will make you sound so much more like a native English speaker!

Can you give me examples of these sentences in your daily conversations at work?

Send it over to pete@aussieenglish.com.au

See you in the next episode!

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Transcript of AE 1120 - Verb + TO vs Verb + SO | Advanced Grammar Lesson

Hey, English. Yeah. Do you hope to come to the party this weekend? Yeah, I hope to. I hope to? Why not just "I hope"? Right. Okay. Do you hope that Dad will come to the party, too? Yeah, I hope so. You hope so? What, I thought it was "hope to"? Well, sometimes it's "so" and sometimes it's "to". Mum, English isn't playing by the rules again. Mate, I make the rules.

G'day, you mob. Welcome to this episode of Aussie English. I'm your host, Pete, and I've spent the last six years helping thousands of students just like you take their English to the next level. In today's episode, I'm going to help you master the use of "to and so" after certain verbs once and for all. I know this is a massive headache for students. But learning to do so is going to make you sound so much more natural when speaking English.

Before we get into it, guys, don't forget to grab today's worksheet, it is linked in the description below. You'll be able to download it, print it out, follow along as you complete this lesson, see all the phrases, all the vocab, everything like that, and you'll also get access to all of the future lessons sent straight to your email inbox. All right, are you ready? Let's go.

So, when to use "so" after verbs. So. So. So. So, when do we use "so"? We use "so" after certain verbs, when we want to replace the object clause in the sentence. Ooh, fancy, object clause. All right. All right. In layman's terms, this is the thing that the verb is acting on, so the phrase that comes after the verb. For example, "do you hope that dad comes to the party? I hope 'so'."

So, we're using "so" in order to not have to say, "yes, I hope that dad comes to the party." After the person has already said that phrase. It's inferred. It's known. Example number two, "do you expect it'll rain tomorrow? Yeah, I expect 'so'." So, again, we're using "so" instead of repeating, "it'll rain tomorrow". "So, do you expect it'll rain tomorrow? Yes, I expect that it'll rain tomorrow."

You don't have to say all of that, instead, you can just say, "yes, I expect 'so'." So, some common verbs and example sentences for each one of them. So, here are a list of common verbs that will have "so" after them, and I'll also give you an example sentence for each of them.

"Appear. Is it snowing outside? It appears so. Assume. Will he come to work? I assume so. Be afraid, as in regret. Am I pregnant? I'm afraid so. Believe. Did my team win the game? I believe so. Expect. Are you going to be late? I expect so. Guess. Are you coming? I guess so. Hope. Will you graduate soon? I hope so. Imagine. Do you reckon it'll be hot tomorrow? I imagine so.

Presume. Are they coming to the birthday party, too? I presume so. Reckon. Are the kids playing outside? I reckon so. Seem. Is that the answer? Seem so. Suppose. Will you be joining us? I suppose so. Think. Can you, do it? I think so. Note: you may sometimes hear "so" dropped after some verbs. For example, "I guess. I imagine. I reckon. I suppose."

Now, because I know how much of a clever little English learner you are, I think you notice that some of the previous phrases didn't have object clauses in them. Very clever. You are correct. However, if I were to create phrases using that verb that pairs with "so" I would use an object clause.

For example, "are you going to be late? I expect so. I expect I am going to be late. Will she graduate soon? I hope so. I hope she will graduate soon." How to negate verbs with "so". So, to negate phrases with "so" you'll either add a negated auxiliary or modal verb, usually "don't" in front of the verb, followed by "so". For example, "I don't believe so" is much more common than "I believe not". That sounds a bit formal or posh.

And the same for "I don't think so" as opposed to, "I think not". Again, bit formal, bit posh. And certain others aren't used, and they sound strange if they're said, for example, "I hope not" is much more common than "I don't hope so". I don't think anyone would say that. The same for "I guess not" instead of "I don't guess so". Again, sounds a bit weird.

Lastly, "I'm not afraid so" is never said. Instead, it'll always be "I'm afraid not". So, I've added example sentences for every single verb that we went through previously, now, where they're negated in the worksheet, so you can get that below.

Before we continue, guys, can I please ask you a teensy-weensy little favour? If you're enjoying this video and getting value out of it, please give a little boop to the like button as it will send good vibes to the YouTube algorithm and show this video to more English learners like you. It really helps small channels like mine. Thanks.

All right, part three, when to use "to". So, we use "to" after certain verbs to replace a verb clause. Ooh, fancy, a verb clause. Yeah, settle down, mate. Settle down. A verb clause is just a clause that includes a verb that the main verb in the phrase is acting on. So, in layman's terms, "to" is just replacing the rest of the phrase following the main verb.

For example, "I want to go to the shops." "To go to the shops" is the verb clause. You can just say, "I want to." "Do you need to go home?" "To go home" is the verb clause. You can just say, "do you need to?" You can do this with loads of verbs in English.

Here are some examples. "Have. Do you have to leave soon? Yeah, I have to. Want. Do you want to try it? Yeah, I want to. Need. Why are you going? Because I need to. Used. Do you like pizza? I used to. Hope. Will he get the job? He hopes to. Expect. Do you think you'll get home on time? I expect to. Get. Did you get to drive the car? Yeah, I got to. Like. Do you like to go surfing? Yeah, I like to."

So, here's a question for you guys. Can you think of any other verbs that I didn't just mention where you can use "to" to replace a verb clause after them in spoken English? Leave a comment below.

Note; "to" is a preposition that's usually unstressed in phrases, so the vowel sound /ʉː/ becomes the schwa /ə/ sound. As a result, you may hear it contracted onto verbs in spoken English, such as haveta, hasta, wanna, wansta, needa, needsta, usesta, gotta, hopeta, hopesta, etc.

Part four, negating verbs with "to". When negating verbs followed by "to" we simply insert an auxiliary verbal modal verb in front of it and negate that instead. For example, "I don't have to. She didn't want to. They haven't needed to. We didn't used to. He wouldn't get to." Again, check out today's worksheet for some example sentences.

So, that is it for today's episode, guys. Well done, making it all the way to the end. Don't forget to download my free podcast app where you can listen to all of these English lessons as audio files. You can listen whilst you're commuting to work, whilst you're at the gym, cleaning the house, going for a walk, whenever you want.

It is just a great way of working on your listening comprehension, as well as revising the English that you've learnt in these lessons. Besides that, if you want to keep learning with me, check out this video and I'll see you next time. Peace!

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AE 1299 – Pete’s 2c: Do You Ring, Call, or Dial Someone on the Phone in Australia?

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AE 1297 – The Goss: How ‘Dropping In’ Culture Has Changed in Australia

AE 1296 – The Goss: Gorilla Glasses & Dad’s Crazy Zoo Stories – MEMBERS ONLY

AE 1295 – The Goss: Australia’s Most & Least Ethical Jobs

AE 1294 – The Goss: Australia Just Had the Best Aurora in 500 Years!

AE 1293 – The Goss: Should Aussie Schools Ban Homework?

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The post AE 1120 – Verb + TO vs Verb + SO | Advanced Grammar Lesson appeared first on Aussie English.

AE 1109 – The Goss: Millipedes & the Weird Evolution of Cave & Deep-Sea Creatures

Peter — Sat, 12 Feb 2022 08:00:00 +0000

AE 1109 - The Goss

Millipedes & the Weird Evolution of Cave & Deep-Sea Creatures

Learn Australian English by listening to this episode of The Goss!

These are conversations with my old man Ian Smissen for you to learn more about Australian culture, news, and current affairs.

In today's episode...

Welcome to another Goss episode here on the Aussie English podcast!

In today’s episode, we talk about a mega millipede found in Australia.

A millipede is a crawling insect which is named so because it has so many legs. Despite being called ‘millipedes’, most species only have 750 legs or so.

Until recently, Australian scientists found a Eumillipes persephone to have a whooping 1,300 legs!

What if insects can wear shoes?

Join us today as we talk about this super millipede and the weird evolution of cave and deep sea creatures.

Is there anything you want to ask me? Drop in your questions here: https://aussieenglish.com.au/askpete

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Transcript of AE 1109 - The Goss: Millipedes & the Weird Evolution of Cave & Deep-Sea Creatures

G'day, you mob. Pete here, and this is another episode of Aussie English. The number one place for anyone and everyone wanting to learn Australian English. So, today I have a Goss' episode for you where I sit down with my old man, my father, Ian Smissen, and we talk about the week's news whether locally down under here in Australia or non-locally overseas in other parts of the world.

Okay, and we sometimes also talk about whatever comes to mind, right. If we can think of something interesting to share with you guys related to us or Australia, we also talk about that in The Goss'. So, these episodes are specifically designed to try and give you content about many different topics where we're obviously speaking in English and there are multiple people having a natural and spontaneous conversation in English.

So, it is particularly good to improve your listening skills. In order to complement that, though, I really recommend that you join the podcast membership or the academy membership at AussieEnglish.com.au, where you will get access to the full transcripts of these episodes, the PDFs, the downloads, and you can also use the online PDF reader to read and listen at the same time.

Okay, so if you really, really want to improve your listening skills fast, get the transcript, listen and read at the same time, keep practising, and that is the quickest way to level up your English. Anyway, I've been rabbiting on a bit, I've been talking a bit. Let's just get into this episode, guys. Smack the bird, and let's get into it.

Alrighty, so true millipede, first true millipede. New species with more than a thousand legs discovered in Western Australia.

Exactly.

This was an epic story. I saw this come up and was like, I did a- I think it was on an expression episode where I was talking about the difference between centipedes and millipedes, and how there are no true millipedes with 1000 legs or more, but now there are. So, researchers named the subterranean animal...

It's a classic.

Yeah.

Eumillipes, which means true millipede.

Eumillipes and then Persephone, which is the Greek goddess of the underworld...

Persephone.

Persephone, is it?

Persephone. Yeah.

See, there I don't even know the emphases...

(both talking) ...Right syllable.

So, yeah, it's a crazy story where they found this millipede with 330 segments and 1,306 legs down, I think it was 60 metres underground in a mining area in the eastern goldfields of WA. So, they found it in a cave effectively, and it smashed the last record holder by like 550? 556 legs.

The previous record was set by Illacme plenipes, which is found in Central California and has up to 750 legs. So, very cool. So, it turns out, apparently, yeah, they were doing a biodiversity survey...

...Impact statement...

Yeah.

...For it. Yeah.

Yeah, in these caves, obviously probably tied in with mining of one sort or another, and they ended up finding these cool species.

I think some of the really cool stuff was that the reason that this species has so many legs is tied to why it's an underground animal and that it helps propel itself forward, or it gives it more grip, more purchase on the ground beneath it, so it's stronger and able to move around, I guess. And they were thinking, it's a fungi eater, I think all millipedes are actually herbivores, or at least...

Well, there's not much else that's going to be, you know, 60 metres underground in a cave. There's not much...

Other insects, other anthropods and other arthropods.

...And fungi, so.

Yeah. So, anyway, it was a really cool story. But yeah, just love insects. Love millipedes. Look at that 1,000...

It's not an insect.

Yeah. Well, you know what I mean?

Arthropod.

Arthropod. Well, do you want to explain that, dad? Why isn't it an insect?

We need a- Well...

You gotta do that, you can do that. People don't know.

Insects are a taxon, as in a group of living things that have basically three body parts and six legs. That's the easiest way- And external skeletons. So, that's the easiest way of talking about, so things like flies, wasp bees, ants, mosquitoes...

Beetles.

...Beetles, butterflies.

It's interesting, though, isn't it? Because we kind of use "bug" as just this sort of catchall phrase for anything that is an arthropod, right, anything that is kind of like crawling...

...Spider's a bug, but in fact, a bug is a particular order of a smaller taxon, a smaller group within insects. It's a particular group of insects that are called bugs.

Well, and we- Don't we use it as well for some crustaceans?

Yeah.

The sort of like...

Yeah, that's the common name.

Yeah, those- The bugs, yeah, they're not...

Moreton Bay bugs. Yeah.

So, it was cool, and I was sort of looking into- The thing I guess I find really cool about these sorts of arthropods, I guess, sort of like centipedes and millipedes is how much the number of segments their bodies have varies.

Yes.

It's interesting. Like I would love to know more about the evolutionary explanation for why say, insects don't just end up with many different thoraxes. I guess you would...

With eight parts of their body rather than three.

Yeah, exactly. Why didn't they end up with, you know, some have eight, some have ten, some have three, some have two. Whereas millipedes, it's almost like every species has a different number of...

Yeah.

...Of segments, which is effectively to explain it, it's kind of like the thing out of which the legs pop. You know, you see these multiple parts of the body...

Each segment will have four legs in these cases.

Yeah. And so, it always blows my mind. I would love to know more. I guess it's- Yeah, it would be so interesting as an evolutionary biologist, why would- What would be selecting for more or less segments, you know?

Well, I suppose it's getting longer, if you want, you know, if- There's an evolutionary advantage to being longer...

Yeah, well if you're underground you've got no predators.

Yeah, the only way to get longer in the case of these animals is to have more segments...

Yeah.

...Or one long segment. And one long segment, you're not- It's a- What is more likely to happen in an evolutionary context? That you're going to replicate something you've already got 300 of, or all of a sudden, you're going to have a longer segment that has eight legs instead of four. It's almost impossible to work out how you're going to get more legs on a single segment...

Well, and I looked this up, so...

...Replicating segments.

Yeah, I remember learning about this in biology, but it's Hox genes, H-O-X genes, and these type of- Well, I've got the explanation here. Hox genes are members of the homoerotic transcription factor family that play a key role in controlling the body plan along the cranial caudal axis, so head-tail axis of an animal, and specify segment identity of tissues within the embryo.

Mutations in Hox genes result in homeotic transformation of that tissue, that is one part of that tissue develops into another part of that tissue.

Yeah. So, you can basically replicate body parts, as in whole segments of body parts...

Well, effectively, all that happens is that gene duplicates, right? And then it codes for one more segment...

That's right.

...So, you would imagine that this millipede that has 330 body segments is going to have a corresponding number of genes, whether it's exactly one Hox gene for every single segment...

...Interesting to know- And obviously it's way beyond this article, and I don't know how many individuals of that, you know, type that they are calling a species they found. But it would be interesting to know if there- Is their variation in the number of segments within the species.

Yeah.

Is 330 the number or is it just something more than 300? Some have 320, some have 336. You know, it's- It would be interesting to know that.

Well, and so I looked it up here, too. There are certain species of snakes where they have vertebrae up to 300, right. And I guess this would be the equivalent in vertebrates, so things with backbones would be the number of bones in their backbone.

And it seems like- It's interesting. I think like giraffes, we think they have more bones in their neck right than-* Yeah, exactly. *Than we do. But they don't, they just have larger bones in their neck, and they still have whatever it is...

Whales, giraffes and humans have the same number of neck vertebrae.

Yeah, which is crazy when you think snakes, it varies a heap.

Yeah.

There can be some snake with, it says up to 300 or more vertebrae.

Yeah.

Whereas, you know, I would imagine... (both talking)

...That's a morphological equivalent of millipedes having more segments because vertebrae are little, just replications of the segment structure in the spinal cord of a vertebrate.

Yeah, I wonder if you could ever have a mutation...

Black kite flying around outside the window.

Not an actual kite, but a bird.

A bird, yes. A bird of prey. Yeah, it's not some kid flying a kite that happens to be black.

Yeah, I guess the equivalent in humans would be like if someone had the, whatever the genes are, when they're developing as an embryo for your hips and legs, would it duplicate, and you ended up with like the Human Centipede.

Yes.

Have you seen that movie, where you've got like three people attached to one another and they all have, you know, different limbs? But yeah, if that were to ever happen, it'd be sort of like that. But yeah, it is interesting. I wonder if things like millipedes and centipedes above ground that are more active would have fewer segments because it would mean there's less of them to grab onto for predators.

I think, you know, just from looking at this, and it looks more like a worm than a millipede.

Yeah.

The legs are clearly tiny. And I suspect the legs are not so much used for locomotion as used to hang on. So, they're really operating like a worm with legs, you know, little things stuck out the side of them, so. It- From just the look of it, you look at and go, that could not possibly survive on the surface.

Even regardless of it being grabbed by predators and things, it would just break. You know, so. You know, it's like a piece of string. You know, it's not a- It's not what we would typically see as a surface arthropod.

Why are animals underground usually so different? You want to talk about that a little bit? I find that really interesting. Like this millipede is white...

Yeah.

...Which is, I would imagine, a very rare colour for any kind of insect on above ground, maybe a moth or something, or a butterfly you'd see is white.

Underground and deep sea...

Yeah.

...Are the same things in that they're extreme environments in a sense that there is- They're extremely controlled and consistent environments.

And, well, they don't have light.

So, there's no light, the temperature doesn't change, the moisture won't change unless there is a catastrophic event.

So, you get these sort of weird- And, you know, it's- When we discover these animals that are, you know, and even plants, you know, fungi and so on that are living this far underground or, you know, animals that are living on, you know, undersea vents, you know, hot vents that are, you know, thousands of metres below the surface of the sea...

They're almost always white.

...They're almost always white, or they're almost always- They're not new types of animals, which you would sort of think this is a completely unique environment, now how come we're not discovering a completely new taxon, you know, large taxon, a new class of animals. Like, we've got insects and we've got, you know, spiders and now...

Effectively, aliens, right. Yeah.

...Now we've got an alien. Yeah. They're just variations on the theme, but they're these sort of bizarre variations because they are no longer subject to the same selection pressures that animals that are typically on the surface that have far more variable environments that they have to cope with, and different pressures of, you know, predation and competition and so on.

It's a bizarre sort of environment when you think about, what's it like living in the soil 60 metres below the surface? It's going to be the same for a million years.

Yeah.

And you don't need eyes, it's dark...

Well, and that was... (both talking)

...Because I suspect these are eating, you know, microbe, you know, small fungi and bacteria and stuff that is just going to be living in the soil around you. You're not going to have to go running around hunting.

That's some of the interesting thing- I'd need to look into this, but I have a feeling that caves and deep-sea environments tend to be relatively- What would you say? Lack kind of diversity...

Yeah.

...Quite a bit. They'll have a key- A few key species that kind of live there, but often like around the vents, you'll see there are shitloads of mussels...

And worms.

...Crabs and worms, and they kind of all have this symbiotic or, you know, the food chain is pretty set up there where the crabs' kind of eat whatever they can get. I remember, I think there's one where you see them and the worms coming out of the tubes, put their red, I don't know what you would call them, like tendrils out to try and grab floating things by.

And the crabs are constantly sitting at the top kind of trying to grab one of the tendrils to eat, you know. And so, it's- It is really interesting. But they're all white, you know, except for the tendrils which are red for whatever reason.

...The thing is, that producing pigment...

Costs money.

Yeah.

Well, energy. Money?

Yes. Well, it costs energy. And it's not just energy in the sense of actually producing it, but energy to maintain metabolic pathways in order to keep producing it.

Yeah.

So, anything that you can- If you can get an advantage in terms of the amount of energy that you're expending by stopping doing things, then you know, like we have stopped doing video.

Yeah.

We're now just doing audio podcasts, so, you know, then there's an advantage to that because you can spend your energy on something else, or you don't need to go and collect as much energy. And that's the challenge in many cases, is just finding food. And if you can reduce your energy intake, sorry, your energy expenditure to account for the fact that you don't have as big an energy intake, then you're going to be okay, so.

Yeah, that was always one of those really interesting things to learn about with biology and evolution that there's that constant trade off. Like if you think of an animal is going to get over its lifetime, a certain amount of energy, you know, say a hundred.

It gets to put that energy into different things like sperm production, body size, tooth size, and it has to kind of weigh these- Well, like not personally, but like on an evolutionary scale, it has to work out, or evolution works out for it, which of these are most important?

So, like I think one of the memories that I have from the evolutionary class is like the rhinoceros beetles that have those massive horns on them that are effectively, they come up head-to-head on logs, and the goal is for them to throw one another off the log. To lift one another up using their pincers or their horns and, you know, defeat their adversary.

But if in growing larger weaponry, you know, horns and pincers, they take the energy from that bucket of energy that they get throughout their entire life from sperm production...

Yes.

...And so, they- There's this beautiful balance between how much energy the animal can spend on weaponry and how much it needs to hold on to, to produce sperm to be able to reproduce with the females. Because obviously, if you spend all of your limited number of, or units of energy on just weapons, you max that out and you have nothing for sperm you can't pass on those genes. So, you get selected out.

...Whole bunch of sperm, but you don't get the opportunity to use them, use it, then it's a waste of energy.

Yeah.

And that's, you know, as you know, I'm in a study as an evolutionary biologist as well. And that was the- I suppose, the thing that I found most interesting studying biology was trying to work out and understand from an evolutionary perspective what the costs and benefits were for any organism's lifestyle, and how those lifestyles have evolved to account for all of those costs and benefits because there's never one or the other.

I mean, the one you gave was a good example...

...Trade-offs, right.

...Is a trade-off.

Yeah.

But there are usually 50 of those, and each one of them is trading off against the others. And so, just contemplating those things is a really interesting thing to sort of spend your life doing, I think, so.

Well, yeah. And arms races, right, where once you have animals interacting with one another and different species, and like lions and antelopes, for example, the antelope has to get more fleet of foot, faster and faster and faster.

But in doing so, it becomes more fragile and frail, right? And so, it can slip up and break a leg pretty easily. The same reason that horses can break legs pretty easily. And lions, as a result, have to kind of get faster and faster and faster, and so they have that trade off, too, of size versus speed.

I think it's the same with like cheetahs, right? Cheetahs have to get- They're the fastest land animal, but as a result, they're incredibly frail...

Yeah, if they got any faster, they would break their legs.

Yeah, and they can't fight, like if they were to catch something a lot of the time their food's stolen...

Yes.

...From other animals.

Because they can't defend it.

Exactly. And those other animals can afford to sort of give up needing to be able to chase animals down, so things like hyenas or lions, although lions do quite a lot, because they are able to also steal from other animals that are better at capturing.

...Bigger and stronger.

So, it is amazing to see that evolution isn't this active force- Or natural selection isn't this active force that determines anything, but this kind of natural process of settling on these kind of traits...

It's a whole lot of- It's a multi-dimensional equilibria, you know, of forces that are operating. Speaking of which, completely random, I don't know whether you saw- I haven't found a print article for it yet. Did you see the news last night? There was a 2 minute, 30 second grab on the news of a lioness who was shielding and helping a baby wildebeest get back to its mother.

I assume that would have been because the lioness had just given birth.

Don't know. Presumably, yeah, I expect it was this maternal instinct thing, but it was just bizarre watching this- And the wildebeest was clearly less than a day old as well. It was wobbly on its legs and things, this tiny little thing walking, almost touching the haunches of this lion. And apparently the lioness effectively- I don't know. It took it back but protected it until it got back to its herd.

Yeah, found it on here.

Yeah.

So, let's see. Astonishing footage has emerged of a lioness appearing to lead a lone wildebeest calf back to its herd in what a wildlife official has described as an act of love. The Tanzania National Parks official Twitter account posted the video Monday in which a lioness is seen walking side by side with a plucky wildebeest calf half her size as she escorted the baby animal back to the safety of in the Serengeti National Park.

Such behaviour is highly unusual and has led Pascal Shelutete, the spokesman for the Tanzania National Parks Authority, to tell the BBC the Lionesses maternal instincts must have overcome her natural, predatory instincts.

Yeah, that's why I said, I think she would have been- She would have had- Haven't- Having just given birth.

Yes, but it's astonishing footage...

It's pretty weird, isn't it?

...Look at it and go, what?

I've seen a few of those, though, especially with lionesses for some reason. I don't know, maybe jaguars, too, where they, for whatever reason, they've just given birth, and they must have this huge amount of, you know, hormones going through their systems that are...

Oxytocin...

...Don't be violent, take care of your babies' kind of hormones. And they're not killing...

Baby wildebeest fits in the same pattern as Baby Lion...

Yeah.

...So. Yeah, as your mother, when we were watching this on TV last night, as she turned around and said at the end of it, she said, so that lioness, when she dropped it off back at the herd and said, I'll be back for you when you've grown up.

Yeah. Yeah, you better not become the sickest one in your herd, or you'll be taken out. It is pretty weird how those sort of aberrations occur.

Yeah.

Like, I always wonder how things end up mutually working together. You know, like a good example of that evolutionarily would be the mantis shrimp and the- Is it a guppy or something? The fish. They both live in the same hole, right?

And so, the mantis shrimp is effectively the protection, the muscles and the fish is the thing the digs the hole out and moves the rocks out. And so, the mantis shrimp is just sitting there with its pincers. It's the thing that can like...

It's the defender.

Well, they're these weird shrimp that have this weird claw that has the ability to break the sound barrier, I think when they click it or create a sonic boom, effectively, right. So, they're creating this explosion that I think- And I think within that explosion that they create when they click their pincer, they do it at such a speed and with such power, even though they're tiny, that it creates this explosion of gas.

And apparently that's hotter than the surface of the Sun for a millisecond, right, when that happens. But you're like, how does that evolve? Is it a one-time thing where one mantis shrimp, for whatever reason, paired up with a guppy and they ended up both reproducing and passing on those genes? Or is it the kind of thing where the two species are sort of at an interface, interacting...

...Just hanging around...

...And it just repeatedly happens until it becomes the norm? Yeah, those sorts of mutualism, where they're two different species working together to benefit one another as well as themselves, that always just blows my mind how that happens, right.

It is interesting.

Anyway, we should probably finish up there.

We should...

Chat next time, guys. See ya.

Bye.

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AE 1102 – The Goss: Where Did the Drop Bear Myth Came From?

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AE 1102 - The Goss

Where Did the Drop Bear Myth Came From?

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Has anyone told you about the drop bear in Australia?

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Transcript of AE 1102 - The Goss: Where Did the Drop Bear Myth Came From?

Where did the drop bear myth come from, dad?

This is a great story.

Do you want to go through this one? You can read out the first bit of it.

No.

No, you don't want to?

Oh, no, no, no...

Just no, no, no.

The drop bear myth, which says, Australia is home to a killer species of koala that will jump from trees and latch onto you, has scared tourists for decades. But where did the myth come from?

To pause for- How epic would that be if we had this random- The other species that is most closely related to a koala is a predatory tree-bear-lion-thing that will fuck you up if you go camping and camp under the wrong tree. Like, how much would that change the- What would you say, the vocational or the vacation environment in Australia? You would be like, there are places you do not...

You don't go to the Drop Bear Valley. Yeah.

Anyway, keep going.

Yeah, so the next bit I'd actually never heard of.

What, that it came from the army...?

No.

...The Vegemite and everything?

Yeah, I'd never heard the Vegemite story...

Read that out for them.

...No, you-

All right. Have you ever plastered Vegemite all over your face? It's not the most fetching look and can take some time to scrub off. However, over the past 40 years that's exactly the look many a visiting US soldier has willingly worn. According to their so-called Aussie allies, smearing your cheeks and forehead in the yeast extract reduces the risk of being attacked by a drop bear.

After all, no one wants to be ripped to shreds by that carnivorous, long fanged relation of the koala that can silently drop from the trees onto their unsuspecting prey, do they? So, yeah, no, apparently, at least, according to this article and the gentleman who has the website. I'm trying to find it. Mythocreatology. Ian, who runs Mythocreatology. This originated...

Not this Ian.

Not this Ian. This originated in, I think, around the Second World War, right? With the allies working together with Americans...

...Talking about.

...Coming to Australia and this joke just kind of starting, right, with- I guess- I don't think drop bear was originally used...

No, but the concept.

...The concept of there being a dangerous animal in the trees.

Yeah. And if you wear Vegemite on your face, then it's going to, you know, prevent you from being attacked.

Or toothpaste behind your ears.

Yeah.

Yeah. And the whole point of that is obviously to just humiliate the person because there would be no other reason you would ever put that onto your body.

Because you're stupid.

But the interesting thing here that blew my mind was that apparently the myth was kind of brought to, I guess the rest of the country in the 80s, and I think it was 1982 they mentioned here.

Yeah.

No, here. In a parody of the first Indiana Jones film, Raiders of the Lost Ark (1981), Hoges as in Paul Hoges Hogan...

Yeah.

...As in Crocodile Dundee featured drop bears in a skit in his television comedy The Paul Hogan Show. So, this for you guys who don't know, this is how Paul Hogan sort of shot to fame. He had this show back in the 70s and 80s, where it was just skits and comedy. So, in the slapstick segment, Cootamundra Hoges endured untold horrors of the Australian bush, including being attacked by killer koalas silently dropping out of trees.

Classic drop bear behaviour, according to the Australian Museum website. So, yeah, apparently the actor Paul Hogan, who is Crocodile Dundee in the Crocodile Dundee movies, is the person who brought the Drop Bear to mainstream Australia, though it had been around since the 30s and 40s in Australia, with the allies working together. You know, and that joke kind of getting around.

And apparently, I think it was that they had drills where for the Second World War, they would go through certain areas in the bush and have to look up in trees for snipers and the person waiting up in the tree would drop things down on them as a kind of, "I gotcha". Like, you just got sniped, bitch. You know, I just dropped some Vegemite on your head. So...

Or a 90kg koala with giant fangs.

I know. So, yeah, it is something that is funny, where at least when I was doing my PhD and master's degree, I met a lot of Americans and other people who'd come over, and we would inevitably end up in the bush doing some, you know, fauna survey somewhere and that joke would always come up.

And a lot of them, because they were biologists, cottoned on to it and were like, that's bullshit. But then others would also be like, are you serious? I had never heard of that. Why had I never heard of that if it's so dangerous?

And it also, I was never a scout, but my friends of mine who were said- And I reckon the sort of hoax thing in the 1980s is probably when it hit mainstream television. But I have a memory earlier of that- Earlier than that of friends when I was a sort of young teenager who were scouts being told these sort of, you know, ghost stories around the campfire when you're out there, there are drop bears.

So, I think, you know, that the myth had already been sitting there around and the term "drop bear" had been used. But, you know, obviously, according to this article, anyway, Paul Hogan was the one who, you know, at least put it out there on public television.

...Yeah. That's the earliest time they can find it. So, yeah, how do you feel about this? Do you feel like it's a funny part of Australian culture? Like a- What would you call it? Not doxing. What's the sort of- Hazing?

Hazing.

Hazing, yeah.

Hazing the newbies.

Doxing is kind of, what, shaming people by getting their work to find out about something they've done online and firing them. Hazing is more like you want to join a certain group...

It's practical joking.

...You have to go through a period of effectively humiliation or trials.

Yeah, exactly.

You know, I think the most common version of it would be, that people would know about would be, you know, if you were in America, going to college, you would be in a frat house, for example, they would haze you before you end up in the frat house. You have to, you know, I don't know, walk around on all fours naked or something and then drink a beer or whatever it is, but.

Have your head shoved down the toilet and all that sort of rubbish.

This seems to be a hazing thing for a lot of- I don't know if they do it to- I guess you would do it to migrants...

It's mostly tourists, I think, rather than migrants.

...Don't speak English and come here. But I- The most common version of this, or the most common time- Types of times that I have ever done this or hear about it is with Americans. So, is it a good thing? Is it a bad thing? Is it a part of Australian humour and culture? Is it bullying?

Yeah, I think- Well, it's definitely bullying if you keep doing it, but.

Yeah, get to the detriment of the person's mental health.

Exactly.

They're literally going camping and they're terrified.

I think there's an element of Australian humour that is about taking the piss. And...

Do you want to explain what that expression means?

It's just, it's teasing, but it's teasing in a light-hearted sense where the other person sort of gets it.

Everyone's getting kind of involved, right?

Yeah.

And its sort of like everyone's part of the joke, as opposed to just...

As opposed to just...

Me calling you a dickhead.

Yeah. And continuing to do so publicly.

Yeah.

But I think there's then that element of that it does stretch over to bullying when- And look I've, as I've said lots of times, I've got lots of American friends and American relatives, and I actually love the country apart from their politics and their lack of gun control.

And Vegemite.

And their lack of Vegemite. Well, you can buy Vegemite in supermarkets there now, so it's fine.

Yeah, but it's too expensive.

I think Americans take themselves way too seriously, just in general and they just don't get the idea of taking the piss. It's, you know...

Well, this is a very British thing that we've gotten from the Brits. I think we've probably taken it to another level...

Yeah.

...But the Brits...

The Irish do it as well...

Yeah.

...I think that's probably a lot of where Austral...

The downtrodden...

Yes.

You know, people in the British Empire. Yeah, for sure. But it's an interesting thing where it kind of works as glue, I feel, like, social glue, the social cohesive glue that brings people together. When you can both take the piss out of one another...

Yeah.

...Because you're different, it brings you- There's almost like this abusive relationship from both sides...

It is. It's a light-hearted abusive relationship, and I've got- Certainly got friends and very good friends that I've had for most of my life where not a large proportion, but a significant proportion of your conversation is basically light-hearted insults, where there is an assumption that we both know this is not true. But there's a subtle element that might be close to true in there, and so...

This happens with my wife and I...

...Never let there be a chance.

...We'll be taking the piss out of each other's cultures. Where she'll just be like, wait, you don't do that? And I'll be like, wait, you do? You fucking weirdo. You know?

Exactly, it's that. And maybe Brazilians get it as well...

I think Brazilians are the...

They're the Australians of South America.

Yeah. I reckon they are; I truly reckon they are. At least the ones that I've met here. I mean, who knows what's waiting for me in Brazil when I go there, maybe I'll be like, completely shocked...

Are you going to get it in Portuguese? That's the thing, because a lot of the piss taking, this is turning it into a verb. A lot of the piss taking...

Piss taking there is a noun, dad. The piss taking.

Yes. Is related to particular terminology, vernacular and ways of speech. And that's something as, you know, and your learners will find is, it's not- If you read the words written down, it's very different from when somebody says it.

Can you think of any examples? I know, I put you on the spot.

You have. I probably will as soon as we stop talking, but...

I guess it's, yeah, it's how you say things, right. Like if you were to say...

Good on you. Good on you is a good one.

Yeah, intonation.

Yeah. If I say- You do something and I come over and go, hey, Pete, good on you.

Well, thanks.

I say, hey, Pete, good on you.

Go fuck yourself.

Exactly. And that's- And it's a very subtle difference. And Australians just hear it instantly...

It's the dropping. It's the good on you, is the nice one, and then the, good on you...

Yeah, good on you. It's that, yeah, it's got the question mark at the end of it...

It's the sarcastic intonation.

...Has that sarcastic question mark of, I'm lying here, you know?

Good on ya.

Yeah.

Yeah, it is funny. It is funny how you just have to learn those things, too. I wouldn't shy away from it, guys. It may be one of those things where you kind of feel like you're sort of deaf or blind when it comes to understanding, you know, what's going on for a long time. But the image will get clearer, or the music will get louder, you know, and clearer the more you practise it. But I definitely have those moments with my wife.

I'm sure she says a lot of shit that I'm like, I have no idea what you mean. In terms of the subtleties, like where she'll say something, and I'll just be like, hmmm. But a lot of it I'm starting to clue onto and sort of get, you know. There'll be so many of these things, like what- She'll always say- It's a really funny thing, I'd have to hear from the other Brazilians here because this is a sample of one.

But any time I make fun of, you know, I don't know, I'll be not necessarily making fun of any single person in her family, but I'll be like, you know, we'll have something that none of us want, and I'll just be like, oh, you could send this to your mum. You know, as a joke.

And she'll say, mandar para sou avó. Send it to your grandmother, you know, sort of constantly. And it's really funny, that's fine. But then as soon as, I think I said to her once- Again when I was saying these things, it was in English.

As soon as I said it in Portuguese and I was like, manda pra sua mãe, porra. You know, send it to your mum, for fuck's sake. She was like, now I'm upset.

Now you've overstepped.

And I was like, wait, what?

What?

You could insult my mum. Insulting my grandmother is worse than insulting my mum in English. Right? Because my grandmother is obviously...

Sacred. Old people are sacred.

Yeah, exactly. Whereas for her, and I don't know if this is a north easterner a thing. Yeah, the mums are sacred, and the grandmother is like, oh, fuck the granny. You know? So, it was a really interesting thing getting used to that cultural difference and that, yeah, where you overstepped the mark. And all of a sudden, you're like, oh, okay. But that's part of it.

Yeah. And I think either you've talked about, or we've talked about the books from the 1960s. The first one was, 'They're a Weird Mob' by, you know, the nom de plume was Nino Culotta.

Yeah.

And it's basically an Italian immigrant comes to Australia and thinks he speaks English, but doesn't really understand the Australian isms...

Let me check just quickly. They're a weird mob Youtube. I have a feeling that this movie is on YouTube, and you can- You guys can watch it for free.

Yeah.

There's bits of it on there...

Yeah, the movies okay. The books are funnier. So, if you get the chance to find the books.

Yeah.

But there's a point in the first book, 'They're a Weird Mob' where he starts to understand that insulting each other is what you do with your mates. And because he just kept feeling like he was being downtrodden...

Exactly.

...Pushed away out of the group, whereas he finally understood that when he was being insulted, he was being included.

Yeah.

And that then became...

That is one of the most difficult things for me to convey to people coming to Australia. I've had that with a few friends who are Brazilian and from other places too that have just said, I don't under- Like I work as a tradie with a bunch of other guys and they're just constantly hounding me. They're constantly making fun of me, calling me a fuckhead or whatever it is, you know, making jokes...

Hey, dickhead, go and pick up the bricks.

...And I'm like, this is that stereotypical male bullying/joking/hazing thing that happens with even Australians where you kind of need to be involved and give back what you get to be a part of the group. Because if you- It's kind of almost this weird, sick thing of if you show that you can't handle it, they're going to go harder...

Yeah.

...Because you can't handle it. And so, it is- For whether or not it's fair, whether or not it's okay...

And they'll go harder because you're not one of them.

Yeah.

But when you push back, you become one of them. And it's...

And that's what I said- I think I said to him...

...There's lots of lots of times where workplace bullying...

Yeah, goes too far.

...It goes too far. And that things that start off as just taking the piss and then just end up being, you know, people's mental health and physical health in some cases, so.

One of the things that I was always telling him, you know, would be to reply, oh, did your mum tell you that joke? You know? That sort of thing where effectively you're taking the piss out of their intelligence.

Yeah, another dad joke.

Just that whole, oh, where did you hear that, your grandmother or something? You know.

Exactly.

And everyone, especially if they...

Or, my grandma used to tell that joke.

Yeah. But if they're the kind of people that get it, they'll laugh at that point. And that's that...

Yeah, you're one of us.

Yeah, exactly. All right, you get it. You can stand up for yourself and your kind of like, you know, fuck off you bogan. You know?

Well, it's one of the great insults, you know? If I call you a bastard, that's an insult. If I call you a mad bastard...

Yeah.

...It's a compliment.

Well, the mad thing at the start, right...

Yeah.

...Means you're awesome...

Yeah, exactly.

...You're great. Yeah, you might be crazy, but you're one of us. Yeah.

So, it is, yeah, it is a difficult thing that you kind of have to get used to here in Australia, especially if you're a male and especially if you're a male working with other men in those kinds of jobs.

...Physical environments often.

Where it's very informal and there's stress and you're angry...

And not many women around. So...

There's no filter.

...Blokes. Yeah.

It is one of those interesting things. I'm always unsure of how much to include of that tradie kind of just interaction and language, because yeah, you will hear swearing all the time. And it's almost like- I remember when I was working at the pizza shop, it would be the same thing, but you would have to turn it on and off. If you're in the front of the house in front of people that are coming in as customers, you're not doing it.

But out the back, everyone's like...

And I find it, as our listeners would be aware, I tend to swear a lot.

Less than me.

Yeah, probably. But even I have that sort of formality filter where- And I don't think about it. It's just, you know, it turns off and it turns on.

Yeah.

And every now and then...

...People listening will have that in their own language.

Exactly, you will, and different circumstances. You know, and it's the where does the dark grey turn into light grey in terms of when you do it or don't do it? But the- I remember, it was a couple of days ago, I was- You know, I can't remember where I was, but I was in a shop somewhere buying something and the guy who was selling it, you know, just over the counter was probably my age, you know, mid-60s.

And he just started...

What? Swearing?

Yeah. And he says, those things are no fucking good, mate. Why don't I get you one of these?

Yeah.

And I went, excuse me.

It's so funny, though, that they can go both directions.

Yeah.

That can go the direction of- And even though you're the kind of person where it's like, in another situation, I would speak exactly the same way.

Yeah. I'd be at the pub where somebody was saying, oh, I bought this new lawnmower, mate. They're no fucking good. Why don't you get a good one?

Yeah.

Whereas- And I wasn't buying lawn mowers, but it was one of those things where I instantly trusted what the guy was talking about.

And that's the other side of it, right? Where you're like, it's almost associated with honesty.

Yeah. But whereas if it was your mum in there, he probably would have behaved completely differently. He wouldn't have turned a hair and go, they're no fucking good, madam, you should get one of these.

We have to tell the story about that restaurant lady that set the...

Ah, the...

I think, we probably talked about that at some sort of point...

The Italian family that had this little restaurant in Fitzroy when I was a university student in the 70s. Yeah. This is my all-time favourite restaurant and it only lasted, I don't know how long, it was, you know, probably a year. And it was...

As in lasted as in the way that she would speak or...?

No, no, no, it just disappeared. Yeah, they made their fortune and left, I suspect. But either that or the police locked them up and took them away. But it was- When I was a university student, nobody- You know, you're an undergraduate student, you've got no money. And so, anywhere that sold good, lots of good cheap food, you know, you go, right, we'll go there.

So, a couple of mates said, oh, I went this really cool restaurant, I want to go down there again tonight, so. And we walked in the front door and there's typically a little old Italian lady all dressed in black. And, you know, she was about 4 foot 10 tall. And you know, when I was 18 years old, she was, you know, she was probably 60, but she could have been 80.

And you know, you walk in the front door, and she'd turn around and go, what do you fucking want? I can't do an Italian accent, so. What do you fucking want? And I- Apologise to all my Italian friends. And looked and went, excuse me?

Yeah...

And it turned out that was all she spoke in English.

Really?

And she would just point to the table, and you'd go and sit down. And the best thing about this place was that none of the cutlery matched, none of the crockery matched, but they'd come and they'd bring you- There was one meal for the day. You know, right, we got spaghetti and meatballs today. And they'd just bring this big bowl, dump it on the table, you'd pay about 4 bucks each and you'd have a glass of wine.

And you know, when I was 18 years old, I didn't drink wine. But as Italians you drink wine. You know, exactly. A glass of wine and as much spaghetti as you could eat for 4 bucks. I thought, this is fantastic. But yeah, this little old lady, she was the greeter, you know, at the door. What do you fucking want?

Not the ideal person for the job.

And I suspect her grandchild, who probably taught her that of, you know, grandma. Nonna, this is what you say.

What the fuck do you want?

...Fuck do you want? Yeah.

So, you said it was like part of the reason you kept going back.

It was, yeah, yeah. It was for the entertainment of getting greeted to the door. And you get your mates in there and go, hang on, shut up, shut up. Shut up, you idiots at the back. Yeah, you're all making noise. You open the door, and she goes, what do you fucking want?

It's funny, isn't it? Because your kind of like, if you were- If that were an Australian woman saying that it would be taken completely differently.

Oh, you'd turn around and walk out.

Yeah.

And so, it is so funny how contextual that is. And that's why I'm always saying to people like who are learning English, you know, don't- The swearing, obviously, you have to try and work out informal versus formal situations, especially the most stark examples, right. You're not in a job...

Christmas dinner with your grandparents. And yeah, depending on...

What the fuck is this food? You know?

Exactly. Who forgot the brandy butter, again?

You have to get to a point where you no longer care about your grandparents' reactions...

Either that or they swear. And you know, I- If I'm old enough to- You know, if I live long enough to have your children and your sister's children swearing...

Dropping F-bombs...

...Swearing at me, I'll be very happy, I think.

Yeah, you reckon?

Yeah.

Not when they're 7, but...

Again, it's funny how that's context dependent, too. At 5 you can't. But if you're 15, yeah, you can tell me to go, fuck myself.

Yeah, exactly. Because you know what it means. Yeah.

But it is interesting how those like- Yeah, people can get away with- I think I'm the same, when I speak Portuguese, I can say and do a lot more things that I think a normal Portuguese speaker would just never be able to get away with.

Do you mean a Portuguese speaker, or a Brazilian?

Well, any of them.

Yeah.

Right, a native speaker of the language. Because they would be expected to understand and get all the nuances. And it's the same- Whenever I catch up with Brazilians, my wife's always like, you're so much funnier in Portuguese, when you're speaking. And I'm like, yeah, because I'm playing with the language and making jokes...

I'm doing Australian. Yeah.

...I kind of want to see how it all works. You know, if I say this are you guys are going to laugh? Is this word- Does this work like this? What's the strength of this, if I say it, like... (Speaks Portuguese) ...or something like that? You know, how do I- I can hear it, but I don't understand how to use it, right, like these swear words?

And so, I'll make jokes and I'll, you know, use these sorts of words. But- And then she'll be like, but in English, you never make those jokes. And I'm like, yeah, because I understand it.

I understand it. I'm not testing it.

...It's not funny if I just suddenly say, you know, fuck wit, you know, out of nowhere in the same context. If you guys were all English speakers, you'd be like, what do you got, Tourette's syndrome or something? Like, what's wrong with you? Anyway, we can finish up this episode here.

We can. We've sworn enough.

I know. Hopefully you guys enjoyed it. See you soon.

Bye.

Yeah, go fuck yourselves. See ya.

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AE 1101 – Interview: 109 Days Alone in the Australian Outback with Anthony Elorrioroz

Peter — Mon, 31 Jan 2022 08:00:00 +0000

AE 1101 - INTERVIEW

109 Days Alone in the Australian Outback with Anthony Elorrioroz

Learn Australian English in each of these episodes of the Aussie English Podcast.

In these Aussie English Interview episodes, I get to chin-wag with different people in and out of Australia!

In today's episode...

Welcome to the Aussie English podcast!

Today, I have the pleasure of introducing you to Anthony Elorrioroz, my very good friend from France!

In today’s interview episode, we get to talk about how he made his bold move of moving to Australia. How he got a working holiday visa, then a permanent residency, until being granted citizenship.

He also shares that he didn’t actually WANT to study English! But when he realized how fun it is learning a new language, he definitely worked on it – getting 1 on 1 lessons, and formally studying for the IELTS.

And finally, he shares his 109-day solo journey across the wide Australian outback on a motorcycle!

Is there anything you want to ask me? Drop in your questions here: https://aussieenglish.com.au/askpete

** Want to wear the kookaburra shirt? **
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Transcript of AE 1101 - Interview: 109 Days Alone in the Australian Outback with Anthony Elorrioroz

G'day, you mob. Pete here, your host. Welcome to this episode of Aussie English, today is an interview episode where I have the absolute pleasure of interviewing my friend Anthony Elorrioroz. So, he is originally from France, he moved out to Australia, I think about 8, 10 years ago, actually, and he has done so much since coming to Australia. He came over here on a working holiday visa.

He ended up getting his PR. He got sponsored. He then got his citizenship. So, we talk about that and what that process was like, studying for the IELTS, how he learnt English because he ended up coming to Australia with very little English.

And then more recently, he's been travelling all over the place through Australia. He ended up escaping from New South Wales just before the borders originally were closed during COVID and went on an amazing 109-day motorbike solo tour of the interior of Australia. He did a heap. He since went on a 1,600-kilometre bike ride on a bike-bike this time, not a motorbike, around Tasmania.

So, it's an absolutely awesome interview, I think you're going to get a lot out of it. And he shares his tips with you guys, too, if you're thinking about doing these kinds of adventures when coming Down Under. So, without any further ado, guys, slap the bird, and let's get into it.

(Both speaking French)

How are you going, dude?

...In French.

No. Man, fuck that. It'd be a short conversation if we were speaking in French.

Already? You're still practising, no?

No, I haven't in a long time, like I can- It's weird. It's one of those things where I can hear and understand most things, but because I haven't had anyone to speak it with in so long the- What is it you say? (speaking French)

Yeah.

It just completely disappears. And Portuguese, because I speak... Eu falo português em casa agora ...I speak Portuguese at home...

Yeah.

...It's just taken over. And so, like, as soon as I was speaking Portuguese all the time, it started- If I tried to speak French, Portuguese would enter and try and take over. And so, it was so embarrassing because a lot of the time I would meet people and be like, you know... (Speaking French) ...And they'd be like, wow, you've got a great accent, you must speak really well. And then I'd be like... (Speaking French) ...Fuck.

Oh, you did. You did. Like, I remember when we were chatting back in Melbourne, we could like talk for hours and hours.

I know, well, it was fine. And that's the weird thing- The amazing thing with language is how quickly it disappears.

If you stop practising and using it, it's...

Yeah, it atrophies. It's like going to the gym, I think, right.

Exactly.

Yeah, you don't reali- And it's happened to me, like, my muscles- Since becoming a dad. So, anyway, shall we get into it?

Yeah, sure. Sure.

And how do I pronounce your surname? I always-

That's-

Is there a shortcut to it?

Elorrioroz.

Yeah, perfect.

So, it'd be like, Elorrioroz in Australian English, right? All right, let's do it. G'day, you mob. How's it going? Welcome to this episode of Aussie English. Today I have Anthony Elorrioroz on the podcast. I had to get in quick, he just told me how to pronounce his name correctly. So, I'm like, I've got to say it fast. I've got to say it fast.

Say it now! Say it now!

So, Anthony is originally from France, and we would have met in, I think, probably 2013-14. When did you come to Melbourne?

Yeah. Well, it was 2013. Yeah.

Yeah, so you were living across the road in a share house.

I was. Yeah, I was across the road till about 2015, for a couple years, I think.

Yeah.

...That's when we met. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. So, we were living on- It was Dryburgh Street, right, in North Melbourne.

Well, yeah, Flemington Road for me and you were in the next street. Yeah.

Yeah. Anyway, so I wanted to get you on because you have been, besides, obviously, you know, we can talk about your migration story to Australia and learning English and getting used to everything. You've been on some really, really incredible trips that I've kind of been perving on during lockdown and everything in Victoria here.

Yeah, definitely.

Do you want to start with how and why you ended up deciding to come to Australia from France?

Yeah. It all started- I don't know. I think I was- I was 21 at the time, you know, so I just wanted to go and see something different. And I was looking at options at the time and probably America or like- The main point was an English country to try to learn English. And then I think at the time, we ended up we were friends being like, oh, why not Australia?

And seems easy, like, you can get the working holiday visa for a year, which is very good if you want to learn a language. And yeah, that's all. I ended up in Australia. What was supposed to be a year of working, holiday, travelling and backpacking around ended up being 8 and a half years now, so.

8 and a half years, yeah. So, and is there any-? What would you say? Is there any will to go home ever or Australia is your home now? Because sometimes you meet people who've come and done the working holiday visa- Like Margit, our friend Margit, right, where she sort of had plans of kind of staying in Australia, potentially long term.

And then on a dime, she's just like, yeah, moving to Norway, you know? And so, it's almost like she has one foot in Australia and one back in Europe. She was originally from Estonia, but yeah.

I think you always have one specific area to, you know, to just be like- People always ask me even more when I'm travelling, like I've been doing the last year. People are very curious being like, oh, so Australia is your home, you're going to stay there forever. And you're like, well, forever, it's a big, big statement, you know? It's- I don't know. I like it so far and I don't see myself going back home.

Do you have PR? Permanent residency, now or...?

A citizen.

A citizen. Wow. Okay, sweet. Well, you can go home whenever you want, right? And then...

So, I can go, yeah- Oh, not with COVID lately, but.

Not cheaply.

Not cheaply, and not with what happened in Australia last year. But yeah, no, I can go back home, but it's, you know, it's always the thing you- You don't know. Like in 5, 10 years, family could, you know, make you want to go back more, spend more time in France or- But at least I got the freedom, I guess, now to go and back...

Yeah.

...The dual citizenship. So, it's a good thing.

That must be a pretty enviable place to be for most people that are- Well, most French people coming to Australia, right? The people you interact with and you're just like, yeah, I'm already a citizen...

Yeah, exactly. And when you met people from, like, I've met a few people, few people who've been backpacking, so they're on their second-year visa trying their best to find a sponsor or find like the way to stay here longer. And they're like, well, what're you doing? And I'm like, I've been here 8 years. They're like, what!?

Yeah, I don't have to worry about shit, I can get on Centrelink. I can get on Centrelink if I want, the government will pay me. So, what did you have to do? When you came out you obviously did the one year working holiday visa thing.

So, I got here and after a few months I found a job, at some diesel mechanic like mining industry kind of. And I found a job with a company and after- The working holiday visa at that time was you can't work more than 6 months with the same company.

That's right. I remember you had to- A lot of our friends, including, I think yourself had to move, right?

Yeah.

Stay somewhere for 6 months and then, oh, I've got to go interstate because I've got a job somewhere else.

Well, it's mainly the company itself, so you can't be contracted with the same company for more than 6 months. So, it could be 6 months in Melbourne, but if you want to go further, longer, I mean, it's kind of the- You need to change company, pretty much.

Yeah. So, you could work at that time, at least with the next-door neighbour's company...

Yeah.

...You know, across the road, but you had to switch.

You have to switch the contract and not be in the same company. But I ended up- The company ended up offering a sponsorship like pretty quickly, actually after a few months in it. So, that's, you know...

Boom!

...7 months in Australia, everything was pretty. I was like, yes, I'll get it.

So, what did you have to do? Was it- Was it just, you know, chance, serendipity that they had the opportunity to give you that visa or...?

Yeah, I think they had the- I think they were pretty- That they've been sponsoring all the people in the past, so that wasn't something scary for them. And then you just got to- Like it's a contract for three years at that time, for four years, I think. And you just need to get the visa approval, so you've got to do the IELTS test. And then pretty much pay the money and show them you're qualified.

So, I was qualified from all my diploma back in France to do that job. So, they kind of need to prove then- They've been offering that job to Australian people. But nobody answers pretty much and you have the quality to do the job...

Is that to sort of prevent companies from only offering jobs to foreigners, you would assume because they can potentially underpay them?

Exactly.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

So, yeah, that was the point there.

So, how did you prepare for the IELTS exam? Did you already have a pretty good level of English prior to coming?

No, no. No, I was like...

Tell us that journey.

That was- Yeah. So, getting it was a funny part, because you- I learnt for 7-8 years in France, but you learn there at the school.

That sounds like my French journey at school, it was like, oh yeah, I did 6 years, but I probably, when I started studying again, as you'll probably remember, I got to a point where I was fluent. But it took probably three months of self-study to get past what six years had taught me at school.

Exactly. And the will wasn't there for my first, probably 5-6 years. I was very much like, why do you want me to speak English like that?

Yeah.

I don't need to. And then once I start to realise it'll be good and I was interested in it, you all like switched. But when I got here, I could barely order coffee, you know, it was like, hey, how are you? My name is Anthony. I've got two sisters, two brothers and that's it.

Man, my- Sorry to interrupt you. I have to tell this story. So, Margit was a mutual friend of ours. She was from Estonia, came over to Australia, and I was living with an Estonian named Richard. I think he's been on the podcast. And they had a group of Estonian friends.

I'd never met so many Estonians in my life after, you know, meeting Richard. I think I probably ended up, you know, getting to know 10 of them and 3 or 4 of them I still talk to on a regular basis. But there was one guy that came over with zero English, and I remember they had this situation where he went into a coffee, a cafe to get coffee.

And I think he just walked up to the person at the till to buy the coffee and just said, want coffee. And he was huge, he was like 6 foot something, you know, a really massive guy. And the woman was just like, Jesus Christ, like take it. Don't pay for it, just leave. But I remember that he had no English and all he knew was just, coffee. Want coffee.

Yeah. And you go to Australia, and like there's so many choices of coffee, so they're probably like, what?

I know. Yeah, exactly. Don't ask, just give him whatever...

Just whatever, just a long black.

So, what did you do in order to sort of get your English to the level it's at now, obviously where you...?

Well, I started to take an English course for 6-7 months. So, I ended up, I think- I went on Gumtree, I think at that time and went looking for a teacher.

Yeah. And I ended up finding like an American backpacker was offering like probably a one-on-one course. So, I would go like at least twice, what, twice, three times a week. And I think like it was like one on one will talk to you about- Like she was very invested in it, so she would always set up stuff about what I like, and we'll just chat for an hour, or we just work over like an article or news or something like that.

And from then we started to study a lot about, you know, IELTS, a lot of technical. So, they- There's a procedure they want you to follow.

Yeah.

And once you've been doing a few tests from the previous years, you kind of understand where to go, what's the rules there and...

What they think you should answer, what they're looking for.

...Looking for, like and so that's pretty much how I have been getting ready for it. But it was very useful, like after, yeah, after 6 months almost of 2-3 hours a week of that private lesson and next to that, I was going to work, so I'll just speak with Australian or Irish people at that time, a lot.

And listening to the radio in the car, you know, on the way to work. You don't- At first, it's very like foggy. It's like you hear a lot of things you don't understand...

It's almost like being blind, right? And then you slowly learn to see, and things come into focus. And it's almost like a patchiness all over the place, you kind of have to get comfortable, right?

...One word a day, and you're like, okay, I think I understand now. Or watching movie, watching movie with English subtitles.

Yeah.

You read a lot at the beginning, but then start to fade a little bit. And you realise without the thing it's- Yeah, without realising it you just- Your vocab just goes up the roof...

I think especially if you're absorbing that much, right, if you're just watching movies, watching TV or listening to the radio and- That's one of the biggest things I found with a lot of my followers that talk to me, they'll be like, I've been in Australia for 5 years and my English is still horrible.

And when you get down, when you dig in, it turns out, oh, well, you know, they're speaking Farsi all the time or Persian with their family and friends and their whole friendship network are all, you know, Iranian Persians who speak it and you're just like, the trouble is, you need to get out of this. You need to affect- It's just time spent, you know, on task...

Because you can't, and that's the thing you can't. It's something I thought I would do at the beginning. So, when I first took on the job, I was with another French friend, with who I came to Australia. And were like, oh, you know what? We're just going to make it happen, we'll chat in English together, even if it's just us.

Nah. Cos that didn't happen at all. You know, you'll try a bit one day, two days and after it's like, just stick in French.

Well, your brain wants to pick the least difficult. Yeah, the easy way. Exactly. So, how did you go with IELTS? Did you have to do it multiple times? Or was it just a once off and you smashed it and you never had to do it again or?

I smashed it, but I got it from the first time.

Good.

...For that visa it was, you need to get over 5, so it's over... They noted on 10...

Yeah.

...And you need to get at least 5 for each section.

Yeah.

So, you got listening, reading, speaking...

Writing.

...Writing. So- And if you got 5 or over for each of them you good, which I did.

Awesome.

Yeah. But I think it's, yeah, all the 3-4 months of just doing test and test and test and test, so.

So, was it the most important thing there was just becoming familiar with previous exam examples for IELTS and practising them, and then, you know, it wasn't so much, I just go to work, and I work on my English there? It's, no, I have to specifically sit down and look at the exam?

Yeah, I think that at that time was like mainly just try to focus to get the test because the test was the open gate to the visa and everything. So, the- My focus wasn't necessarily on- I mean, you still learn English in the process because I was starting from scratch, but it was mainly like learning the procedure of the test to get it done and passed it, so. But it worked, so.

How did you go getting used to Australian English? This was something I was always like, you know, when I was learning French, it was French, French and within that it was kind of Parisian French, right. So, you know, I wasn't learning slang from other regions or the different sort of accents and dialects there. But I always- The idea of going somewhere like, say, Quebec, right, and trying to communicate with Quebecois.

They speak French, but it's relatively different, right? And it's quite a shock. So, did you have that kind of experience coming to Australia where you'd probably been exposed to British and American English, but very little Australian English? Or did you sort of practise a bit with Australian English before coming?

Oh, I didn't practise at all. I just...

Jumped in.

...And jumped in. And the thing is, you know, that's the- Some people always said to me back in France, you'll see Australian, they got different accents, different slang. But when you first got here and I think for my case, like when I first got here, it was just your brain, like you say, just blocks everything.

Yeah.

And it's just like it's another language you don't understand. I couldn't speak- Like if someone was speaking to me, I couldn't speak if it was American, Irish, Australian, British. Like it was just, what are they saying? You know?

I had that when we were in Paris, when I was doing my trip, when I was probably 16. I remember walking into the hotel we were staying at and the concierge or the guy running the place was chatting to some woman. And I was just like, I'm like, what the fuck is going on? He's speaking French to her, but she's replying in something that sounds like, I don't know, Swiss, German or Norwegian or something.

And afterwards I asked, I'm like, what language was she speaking? And he was like, oh, French, she's from Quebec. And I was like, I could hear your side of the conversation and understand it, but when she replied, I just had no idea, I was like, I can't- This sounds foreign to me. So, it's so funny how the brain does that, right?

It is. Yeah, it's you just broke it. But then after maybe it took me a- I think it took me from when I got here probably a good 6 months and up to a year to really understand and feel confident speaking in English or feel fluent, kind of fluent, and it took me probably the same amount of time to pick accent...

To be able to, like, differentiate?

Yeah, like I wish it didn't take me so long because I was working with a lot of Irish at that time. So, after a bit, I could probably make the difference. And then American got there and I was like, oh yeah, so that's not Australian, that's not Irish. Then I like, you know, just eliminating like, no, that's not, that's not. British is more like fluid and up and down, and like singing. So, you get it at some point, but it takes some time.

Yeah, it's crazy, isn't it? Like, as I- I imagine you'd be like that in France, where you would hear- I think France has dozens of different accents, right? And then there are all the different French speaking countries, and you don't realise how well tuned you are in your native language to pick up those accent differences where you're like, immediately, bam, that's from somewhere else.

And I can even, you know, at times, I'll be speaking with someone- Say there's a Brazilian woman who teaches English in the UK, and when I hear her speaking, I'm like, holy shit. She is almost 100% nailing the accent, but there's one or two things in there and I'm like, yeah, you're not a native.

And it's not even that she's mispronouncing sounds, it's that she's taken sounds from one sort of accent and brought them in, and she's pronouncing them correctly, but she's using them with the wrong kind of sounds for that, like they're not consistent.

It'd be like if I was pronouncing- Using American pronunciation at times when speaking Australian English, you would just be like, there's something weird going on here with his acc- It's not consistent. So, it is- It blows my mind. And that's one of those things I think that takes so long.

Like if I got back into French, it would probably take me years before I would be able to be like, listen to someone and instantly be like, yeah, he's from this place or that woman is from that place. Whereas, you know, I'm sure you can do it instantly, right?

Yeah, we can recognise that. And we've got already like the north and south of France, which north is a bit thicker accent than the south.

Is that the Ch'tis? Is that where they're from?

Ch'tis. Yeah. They're on another level, even higher.

Do, you want to explain the Ch'tis?

Oh, it's- I don't know. It's the, would that be like the Bush...?

Mountain people?

Mountain bush, the Australian version of France, I guess.

Yeah. But they have like a really, really unique, I think, dialect, right? Where it's not just accent, it's words, too, and...

Yeah, it's words and, yeah. I think even myself can't understand the words being said there, so. It's a mixed...

Have you seen much about Cajun French in Louisiana? I think it's Louisiana, in the US. So, they had a lot of French migrants, right? That's why this place is called like Louisiana and New Orleans.

They originally spoke French there. So, for since the 1600s since America was colonised, and it's this weird mélange of English and French. And they almost- When you hear them speaking, at least modern people speaking Cajun French, it sounds like they're just using an English accent, but they're speaking in French. And so, it's the weirdest thing to sort of...

I don't know.

...To watch and listen to, because it's just like...

Yeah, I need to have a look, I've never heard of it.

And they pull in so many phrases from, say, English, and it's just so mixed up. It's just nuts. But yeah, it's still, you know, there are still people there who speak this sort of, I guess it's a Creole kind of language where it has a backbone of French, but it's since, you know, absorbed a lot of English as well.

Yeah. I've never heard of it, and I'll have a look.

Yeah, yeah. Anyway, so how do you feel now after, I guess, 8 and a half years in Australia with your English before we move on to the other stuff? Did you ever get to sort of a point where it just plateaued and you're like, yeah, that's good enough?

Or is it the kind of thing where you're still working on it every day, you know, studying really hard? You know, what's that journey been like where you determine whether enough is enough or keep going?

Well, I think it's hard to say. I think there's always- I still make mistake in pronunciation or like writing and- I guess with time, usually I can correct myself, like, I'll do the mistake, then you're like, oh, that was wrong, and get back to it straight on. I've stopped studying, that's something for- I don't think it's the best solution... But like you said, I think it's- You get those waves of, like, it depends on who you hang with.

So, if I start hanging- So, I was doing the food van, but with my friends, working with French people, being with French. Your English go down straight away, like not necessarily in- I think your mind is getting a bit more confused with switching fast, even if you can do it. But then it's like, it's not as fluid as if you just hang with Australian people or English speakers...

Yeah.

...And you only think English, speak English, write English all the time. I had that for a year and a half for when I was in Perth, when I was only on the phone with friends and family speaking or writing French.

So, just surrounded by English speakers constantly.

Surrounded by English constantly. And I did feel it, like I was like, oh, like, I didn't have to repeat myself so often when I was chatting with people. Like, it was always more fluid with conversation at the coffee or anywhere.

And getting back here, like the last year and a half, almost it's I felt it the opposite way being like ahh! A bit harder. I need to repeat...

Because you're in Wollongong, right?

Yes, I'm in Wollongong, yeah.

And you have a business. The, I think, The Arrogant Snail?

Yeah.

Do you want to tell us a bit about that? And so, yeah, you're obviously surrounded by French speakers as well.

Yeah. Three French people in a food truck, a French van that we imported from France.

Wow. So, you drive around just Wollongong selling French food? Or is it you go around the country or...?

No.

Not yet.

It's a slow van. It's up to 70 kilometres per hour, so.

Really?

Yeah.

You guys have got to see this van, too. I'll have to try and share a photo of it because it was a- How did you find it? It looks like this really unique, beautiful old truck.

Well, we found it on a French website, so we got it from France, imported it to Australia.

Wow, okay. Jesus, that must have cost a lot.

Yeah, a bit, but I think it's been good so far. We got something a bit unique. There is some in Australia, not that many, but there are a few.

I would imagine they wouldn't be cheap here, though, you know, they'd be collector's items, right?

Yeah. And people keep them. So, people are either using them or keeping them, so.

And well it's, I don't know if you've seen The French Dispatch, the truck is in it.

Oh, really?

Yeah, yeah. The truck is in it. I saw some trailer of it, of the movie and...

They have the same one.

They have the same one. Yeah. So, yeah, we got that van and we just- We pause it a bit for winter and COVID, it's just been a bit of a hassle of trying to get that business running. So, we- It's on a brake at the moment, but. We were driving around just Wollongong and Illawarra, so that area out there and just selling crepe, galettes.

So, crepe and galettes. So, galette is the segregation of crepe, and creme brulée. And we've just been around and, I mean, people love the van, it's always a...

I think...

...Very curious and come around and...

There's always room for French cuisine in Australia.

Yeah.

Pretty sure you would have probably experienced that in Melbourne, right? Is it Flinders Lane that had that French restaurant or small French kind of creperie in there as well?

Yeah, the patisserie too, I think.

Maybe that was it. I remember there being a nice little place in there that was kind of tucked away.

Yeah, they got there and they had like a... I remember having a very nice patisserie chocolate pre- Chocolate factory there was very nice, like people were very like, they went full on with the stereotype. I think like we tried, like, very like, well-dressed, very trying to be as French as they could, so.

Does that irritate you?

No, no. I think, you know, there is a lot of truth in stereotypes.

I feel like if I were to go to France and, I guess, what would the equivalent be of what you're doing here in Australia? It would be someone selling, you know- I don't know. What?

Like pavlova out of the back of a ute in France and, you know, wearing thongs and, you know, being shirtless with a mullet or something, and people walking up and then being like, how the fuck are you? I feel like if I were to see that, I'd be like, oh, mate, you're doing us a disservice. This is not every Australian, guys. This should come with a warning label.

I think some French stereotypes are true. Like, it's- Like, to a point, I think...

Yeah.

...There is some truth in it. It's like that's coming from somewhere, and so...

Did you- Once you learnt English and obviously you were interacting with a lot more Australians over here, did you learn more about France and your own culture as a result and sort of like how it's seen globally? Like how Australians see France as opposed to obviously when you're in France and you speak French, you know, you can't really get that external kind of perspective.

Yeah. it all comes to a lot of all the time, what comes back a lot it's... I mean, in terms of stereotype, I would say, like arrogant.

That's not a stereotype. That's just true, isn't it?

That's true. Definitely.

Your business is called The Arrogant Snail.

That's definitely true. And I think it becomes like, when people like, know the cultures beyond, all of the...

Architecture.

...Architecture.

Yeah.

See, still making mistakes and learning. And that's always come back, like it's, oh, you've got so much culture, so much history. The food, the cheese, the wine. The wine is always a big one, you know, it's always like, oh, like, you're different, you pick up the wine.

We had some mum champagne the other day because my wife got her permanent residency...

Oh, cool.

...It was pretty good, but, yeah, very expensive.

Yeah. A lot of time, I guess, too.

To produce?

No, other... I thought you were talking like forever to get the PR.

Oh yeah, that took 3 years. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That was- It was good to have that sorted finally.

Yes, definitely.

Awesome, man. So, tell us a bit about you travelling around Australia. You've ended up seeing probably more of Australia in the last two years than the average Australian, to be honest. And it's one of those embarrassing things, especially someone with an Australian business, and, you know, based on Australian English. A lot of the backpackers see so much of Australia so quickly.

So, how did you end up deciding that you wanted to do- To backpack around Australia and see these sorts of places? And you know, what was it- What was the preparation like?

Well, I think it started from- Like, there was always that idea to- A mix of project, of like, at first, it was mainly crossing the Simpson desert. So, that was like get the bike and crossing it with friends.

The motorbike, right?

The motorbike, yeah and crossing...

Wouldn't want to do that on a pedalling bike.

Well, some people do. There is a- There is actually an organisation there raising money for charity, I think, for kids, and they cycle with like a big, fat tire on a pusher bike across the Simpson. But they got like the four-wheel drive assistance...

Yeah, you'd hope so, right?

Yeah. Because they can only do- They can only do 80-60km a day, so. And it's 530km, I think, to cross it, so.

It's a week.

...Wouldn't be able to do it by yourself, I think. It would be very madness, pretty much. So, yeah, I started with that. I always wanted to go back in France, on a motorbike. That was a bit of a kind of dream or like a big goal I always had on the back of my mind, but I COVID often, and my goal was travelling country, full country, it's not something that's going to be easy to do, I think for a bit.

And like going back in France last year wasn't much of an option anyway because all the lockdown was happening. So, I was like, well, I might as well just spend some time and travel all around Australia. And I lived in Perth, and I've travelled all the south coast back to Melbourne, lived in Melbourne, so I explored around a bit of Victoria.

And I was a bit like, you know, looking at my option, I guess, and being like, it's winter on the East Coast and all that side of Australia. And I was like, let's go north, let's chase the sun into warm weather. So, I ended up, yeah, going through outback Queensland and north of WA and- But like through South Australia...

Through Alice Springs and everything, right?

...Alice Springs, then I was hoping to cross the Simpson on the way back for my trip, that was in September, beginning of October at that time and...

Just too hot.

Yeah.

It was- You could still do it. Some people with four-wheel-drives were still going out there, but being a solo traveller on my motorbike, I have to carry an extra 16 litres of water and was just getting a bit too intense and too risky to just, you want to try to cross it...

So...

...I guess.

...Were you doing it 100% by yourself or was this in a group?

No, 100% solo. Solo-unassisted, yeah. So, that was fun.

How do you prepare for something like that? Because that must be a completely different game when you don't have assistance, and not necessarily assistance in that you have a car with stuff, but you've got someone else there just in case something goes wrong, right.

This is that kind of, you know, if you go swimming in the ocean, it's probably- And like away from shore. It's probably good to always have someone there with you because if you have a, you know, cramp or something. Yeah.

Well, it's- Yeah, I had- I wasn't thinking too much necessarily of that at the beginning. I was just planning and being like, it's fine. I guess not realising how much like Australia can be huge and the outback can be so very little population around. So...

I guess to put this in perspective, sorry, guys. So, Anthony went on a 109-day trip, 17,000 kilometres, 300 kilometres on foot, and it was 96 days camping out. So, it was a third of a year, right?

A third of a year, yeah. Yeah...

So, like 4 months.

Yeah, almost 4 months, camping and travelling around, yeah. I ended up getting a- What would they call it? Personal beacon?

Yeah. Yeah. An EPIRB, right?

An EPIRB, yeah. So, that was my only, like safety device, I guess, and I could get the best I could get, I think what was at that point was getting this device. And so, it's something that's tracking me, so my friends have access to the website and could check every day, like a little dot moving on the map, pretty much.

And if you get in trouble, you can hit a button, right, and the... (both talking)

...The rescue would come. So, you got 2 kind of options where you can either just send a text to your friends and it's just like the bike break down or I'm injured but I'm not going to die in the next 48 hours or whatever, you know, you just think it's not that important. And they- Your friends have to call someone around to organise the rescue for you. Or you press like the big S.O.S. red button it's like, come, come as quick as you can.

Yeah, the cavalry come, right. Yeah. Did you ever have to use it?

No, no. Luckily, no. I've never had to use it, no.

Ever come close? Or there- Was there ever a time where you were like, oh man, this is getting a bit much or I'm in a bit of danger here? Or was it smooth sailing?

...I think I had- No, I didn't get to the point. Like, literally never had to think about it. I think I was always being- And I guess being solo, I was always very conscious of the potential risk I was putting myself in every day.

Yeah.

So, there was time where I guess I would of probably, you know, maybe go a little bit faster or go a bit further away trying to in the bush or explore a bit more if I was with someone else. But being solo I was, I think, always a bit conscious of being like, well, the main point is to come back home alive. Just see as much as you can, not just trying to go places where nobody goes or...

So- Is that the sort of difficult side of doing it alone? I mean, I'm sure there's a sort of aspect of just isolation and loneliness that is probably part of the appeal. But is there also that lack of freedom for just being able to do whatever you want, whenever you want because you're on your own? So, you can't take certain risks that would otherwise potentially be okay if there were other people there.

And being on the motorbike, it's, you know, you fall, depends how you fall you can- I think you're very vulnerable. You expose yourself much more than being in a car, like your- All your risk- Like a car, you can- You're going to four-wheel drive trip or a van, you just load up.

You can get a 60-80 litres of water, it doesn't make any difference. Where for me, 10 litres was- 5 litres, where do I put them? It's a lot of weight, too hard on the bike. So, everything is the bigger proportion, than just being on the car, I guess.

So, how much strategically did you need to sort of plan these things out in order to make sure you had enough resources? Because, as you say, if you're doing this on a little motorbike, you sort of have to know where you can get water and food constantly, right, and fuel.

Whereas if you were just in some big fuck off huge four-wheel drive, you could pretty much, you know, almost drive, what, like a thousand kilometres without having to stop, and then, you know, have enough food and water for days.

Yeah, exactly. Well, it's- You start- I think I started with just picking up the bike and just realising how much weight I can put on, and by the set up, I could get like, you know, just a ton of room and weight, just define if... I ended up making the trip by knowing how much water and food I can carry more than making the trip and trying to fit the bike to the purpose.

Yeah.

So, I had that bug, I knew I could do- So, I did a big safari tank so I could carry 30 litres of fuel at the front.

How much-? How long would that last you?

With the front tank I could get 550km? -40km, 540km, which is pretty good for a motorbike.

Wow.

And I still had an extra 10 litres jerry can at the back.

That's good, like in case of forgetting to fill it or not enough petrol station, but as well like, I guess if I have a big fall, I have a big fall and I burst my tank, you know, for whatever, you know. I got that Jerrycan at the back where I can just do like another 100km to probably get back to the main road or get back to the closest town. And like, try to work something out from then.

But at least you can get yourself out of a shitty situation, pretty much. So, that's how I ended up setting up, I was like, I got a maximum of 3 one litres of fuel. And then from then just, you work your way out. So, every day through...

Yep.

...I did map out all the road trip before I left, so I took the map and do a little bit of research without pushing too much but just like, I can go that road, that way. My point was I wanted to cross the Simpson, go to the Kimberley and- So, Alice, Uluru, all these spots, going up to Darwin and then back. So, that's how I ended up mapping everything out.

Yeah.

And I was supposed to start with the Simpson, but at that time when I first left- I've been very lucky, and every time when I came back, people were like connecting with people there. So, I left a day before the lockdown happened in New South Wales, so I left Wollongong and rode on that day past the Blue Mountains and everything.

And at the same time, same night, my friends called me and was like, oh, did you realise, like did you see the news? South Australia is closing the border to New South Wales, WA is closing, Queen- Not Queensland. NT, WA they're all closing to New South Wales and my plan was to cross the Simpson, so I had to be going through South Australia. So, I was like, oh, okay, so I can't go there anymore already.

So, I was like, oh, I'm going to be stuck in New South Wales. The next day I ended up just jumping on the bike and Queensland was the last state I could go. So, I just drove 800km up the border, just across the border and save it. And I was like, Queensland is so big, even if I get stuck in Queensland I can just make a big trip out of it.

Yeah.

And that's where I ended up, yeah. I've done all my trip backwards and then what I thought I was thinking of doing the Simpson, then back up to WA and NT and coming back down.

But you did it backwards effectively.

I did it backwards, yeah. But I can't complain, like I still was still like in nature and travelling around where people were in lockdown, so, I mean...

I know, I kept seeing, that's why I was following it and I was just like, you son of a bitch. This was like, whilst Victoria was even worse, right, with lockdowns. On and off and on and off.

You had the worst time ever in from all the Australian people like how many...?

I don't know, 4 or 5 different lockdowns. But you look at how nuts it's going at the moment and your kind of like, in terms of numbers, if this was happening before people were vaccinated, it would have been a nightmare, right? Because the thing, yeah, that I see right now, all of the supply chains and everything is disrupted, and you're like, well, that would have happened.

So, even if we hadn't had a lockdown, we would have had massive problems with getting access to food and everything. So, it's almost like it was a, you know, he had to pick it between something- A rock and a hard place, right? So...

Definitely.

...But glad it's over.

Yeah, yeah.

So, which parts of the journey were the best, you know? Can you describe some of the stories or situations or things you saw whilst away?

The best, it's very odd, I think- You know, I think I was- In that time I was always so grateful to explore around and- It's very hard. Each state of territories got their own, like, scenery and they offer different exploration and- Like, for example, you get up to NT and it's that crocodile every waterway, you know? And that's- That took me a good week of, you know, watching the river or watching something and be like...

Holy shit, they're here.

They're here, there is crocodile in there, probably. And being on the bike again, you just need to be extra careful being like any crossing, any water crossing on the road, I was very conscious of like stopping, watching. Like, how deep is it? Am I falling in the middle or what? What if a croc is around? You know, it just- And when y- It took me a long time before, you know, it's- I think it's like sharks.

You know, people are very scared of shark, where- Because you don't know, if you don't know shark or if you don't know snake, any snake you see, it's scary. But if you know which one to be careful of and how to behave, you're not that necessarily that scared anymore.

Yeah.

Crocodile I was so unfamiliar, I was like...

It would be unfamiliar for me. I think the average Australian would be like, I don't know what to do.

What to do. Where to be careful. Is 50 metres enough? Like, where do I camp?

Have you seen that...?

...Camping...

Have you seen that video of the guys camping next to the- This river? And there's an American guy wearing an Akubra hat, and he's just like, so, we're going to show you how to check to see if there's crocodiles in the water. And there's a guy holding a buffalo head, right. Obviously, they've killed and butchered this buffalo and eaten it.

And he just swings it and throws it in the water, and the moment it touches the water, this huge like 4-metre croc just goes RRRRrrrrrr out of the water, just launches at it. And you're just like, holy shit, it was just waiting there the whole time...

Yeah.

...For any disruption of the water to just explode. And the guy on the camera is just like, well, I guess that's how you know, no swimming in here. That was just like, holy shit, you know, I would be packing my dacks the whole time, I think in the north of Australia like that. I'd be like, just stay away, 400-metres away from the waters edge.

Definitely. That's what I was thinking at the end. I was like, is that 400m enough? And I wanted to camp a few times, and I was just like...

Nup.

...Checking them up. Is there a river close by? You know, half past one, I don't even know, and...

You'll have to get a tent you can set up in a tree.

Exactly. Yeah. Like if you go to a roof, or a car you just sit, you're done. It's fine. But people in NT are very like, you know. I don't know. Just like, it's fine.

I think you get used to it though, right? Yeah. You're just like, you just stay away from the water. You can't go in any water, effectively, unless it's like isolated from the rivers and everything. Yeah, so.

Oh, there's a four-metre there. Okay, okay. Yeah. And like you said, like you don't see them and that was very impressive because in the north, close to Arnhem Land, you can go to what they call kelp crossing.

Yeah. This is where people are like fishing there, right?

Yeah.

They're just hanging out and you can see the crocodiles around, and you're just like, you guys are nutjobs.

It's crazy. And you can see them like disappearing, they just go down in the water and you're watching them for like 20 minutes, nothing's happened. And after 20 minutes, you just see the head popping up like a metre in front of you and he's been there the whole time.

Just to get a breath and then go back down.

And yeah, and you didn't know. And you're like, woah.

There was another video I saw that- From a sort of Australian bushman guy called Andrew Ucles, and there's- He goes to a river somewhere and he's just standing on a log, and I think they were spearing barramundi. And he just gets his camera and he's just like, okay, guys, so have a look around. And the water's really clear, it's beautiful.

And then he's just like, just as we were about to start spearing barramundi. He like, looks downwards, and there's this, you know, 3 and a half, 4-metre crocodile at the bottom of the water just sitting there like this... (crocodile pose) ...And it looks like a log through the water. You can barely see it. And he's just like, and we're not going to be spearing here today.

You know, I wouldn't go in the water. No, for sure.

So, yeah, how- What are some of the other amazing things that you saw? You know, like I imagine it would have been- There would have been so much wildlife running around. Did you get to see camels and stuff like that as well in the desert areas or...?

Oh, camel I didn't. Buffalo, snakes, some freshwater and saltwater crocodiles, that was- It was like at first same thing, you- I couldn't- I was like, oh, freshwater or saltwater, what do they look like? Very different and everything. The scenery is amazing. I think it's very- Like the sunset in the outback are so, so amazing.

Yeah.

...It's something- The night sky every night, it's something very different. The red dirt as well, like that was very, very, very shocking.

In terms of wildlife, yeah, definitely buffalo, crocs was the scariest things there, I guess, like for me, just being like- And you know, it's not like shark where, you know, it's just going to get a taste, maybe, and you're lucky you survive and you just- If you're lucky, you're just missing an arm or a leg. Like, you know, they're very vicious, and if they get you, you're done, you're over. Like, it's...

Yeah.

So- But many, like a lot of waterfall, canyon, hot springs in Limmen National Park, which is in NT. The scenery, it's always changing, I think. That was very changing all the time.

Do you think it's a much more intimate connection you get with the land, too, if you're on your bike as opposed to in a car?

Yeah, you- Well, you're much exposed to everything like the sun, rain, wind, so you feel it. The change of the road condition is a big thing. Like people were like, oh, sometimes it must be boring because, you know, it's outback, and in the bush, sometime it just very long, straight line of dirt road.

But the road conditions change a lot, so you've got outback sand or deep sand or gravel road. And when you're on the bike, that affects you much more than the car, so.

Does that get tiring, though? Because you must have to be so much more conscious of what you're doing, right? Like, you know, when you're driving, you're still conscious, but you don't have to be focussing on every single rock that you hit or the sand or the depth of the, you know, the sand that you're driving through.

Oh, it's physically and mentally you get exhausted. When I was doing- I realised that when I was doing over 300-400km of gravel road or outback road, I'd be very exhausted at night. Like, I'd just be like, I want dinner and go to bed and shower if possible because it just- And the thing is, on the corrugation road at the outback, you got to be- So, you've got to be at a certain speed, you can't be too slow.

Because if you're too slow you're just like...

(Too slow on a corrugation road)

Yeah, exactly.

You have to get to certain speed so that you time the jumps, right? You almost match the harmonics of the road so that the bike actually stays stable across the- Or the car as well.

Yeah.

If you're too slow, too fast, it starts vibrating like crazy.

And on a motorbike the sweet spot was 90-100km an hour.

Oh, wow, okay. So, you actually have to go pretty quickly.

So, you're going to have to go fast, so that's why it's so like, very full on because you've got to get to high speed...

Yeah.

...To just be comfortable and have a nice ride all day. But then you're like 100km trying to pick up rocks and pick up the next change on the road. So, it's very, very full on.

So, did you...

You got to follow like camping car and caravan, and four-wheel drives, so you get all the dust.

Oh, no.

I mean, it's always been like a good, I don't know, challenge and good day out of it, having a good time.

Did you have any falls on those roads or any crashes or anything or it was okay?

I had a few miss, a few near miss...

Near misses, yeah.

Yeah, I had one. Well, there was a huge ditch on the side of the road, and I was trying to make room for caravan coming across me, in front of me, so I went on the side of the road and there was this huge ditch. And I just ended up jumping it, jumping over from the road. So lucky, but. So, I got very scared on that one because I was just like 8:30-9:00am, I just left my camp, 10 minutes on the bike.

Yeah.

You know, just getting into it. And just like, whoa, slow down.

Jesus.

A few... A few near misses with, how do you call them, Brumbies?

Brumbies, okay, horses. Yeah, wild horses.

Wild horses in NT on a top roads, so...

As in them just coming across and just trying to...

...Crossing the road. Crazy.

Far out. I didn't think of that. Yeah, so you would have all these animals. Because that's one of those things that I would shit myself in a car, especially if it was a horse. But on a bike, you'd be dead.

You would be dead. Yeah, yeah. And I had the near-miss that day and I got there at the caravan park that same night and I was telling it to the owner, and he was like, oh yeah. Last week they took a guy on a motorbike, he's at the hospital in- I think, he was in Darwin because he like, nearly passed from the fall.

Far out. So, what were the people like, too? Did you get to meet some interesting characters whilst you're out there? Because I imagine that the- They're a different breed from those that you would meet in the city. And I don't mean that in like a negative way.

They're often, at least from my understanding, you know, they're much more informal, you know, and they're probably also straight for the- Straight to the point, you know, they're much less likely to put up with bullshit, you know?

And it's so like, I think, mainly North Territory, it just seems like they, you know, they got their own rules. It's a bit like the- It's wild, you know, just like people can do fireworks. I was there when they had North Territory Day, so it was like fireworks and- They just, yeah, I think they're just wild, they're just there in that- Their own with animals and with big bush land and vegetation where you could get lost and just-

They're just like, oh, yeah. It's the way, you know, like you- know, like not cowboy, I wouldn't say cowboy. But yes, it's a different lifestyle. Like, it's more farming and more people that live in isolation or very remote places, so they don't have the same attitude toward life, I guess, like it's very like, yeah, that's right.

Let's go, get some barramundi and- Like they were fishing around six crocs in that river at the crossing, you know, and on a tiny, tiny boat, like tiny dinghy. And you're like...

Most of the crops were bigger than the boat, you know...

Yeah.

...What are you doing?

I think you would just get so used to it, right? It becomes like this sort of, you know, you take it for granted and you don't realise how dangerous it is when you're around it all the time, which is when accidents tend to happen.

It does, yeah. But it's very intriguing place because it's, you know, they got both very 2 distinguished season of wet and dry.

Yeah.

So, I was there during the dry season.

Oh, you wouldn't be able to go through on the wet season.

No, you wouldn't. But it would still be very amazing to see, like all of those waterfalls that were probably going... half the capacity or not even of what they can go in wet season. That's something like I would love to go back and like go in a chopper and just have a look at those, like those big twin falls and it's changing falls in Kakadu, which is just amazing.

Like the- Yeah, it's just wild. And they keep it very- Like with all the Aboriginal community and everything, they keep it very like close to your country, go and venture around the park, which is looking good, like you just preserve all the environment around.

Yeah.

It's very- It's very amazing there.

I've heard a big issue is that the- That they do that, but they don't have enough funding to deal with all the pest species of plants and animals. And so, there's this kind of argument between whether or not, you know, it's a good idea to keep all these places like that isolated without people being able to go in.

You know, I don't know enough about it, but yeah, it is an interesting kind of thing because like- Especially in the NT, you don't realise how many invasive species are up there, especially the buffalo, which are a massive issue that they have to try and, you know, deal with, and donkeys and horses and- But you- So, you've also been on some cycling trips on actual bicycles, right?

Yeah.

...Recently, I think you did the Great Dividing Range in the south east and then you just got back from Tasmania, where you did 1,600 kilometres around the island.

Yeah.

How do you find the bike versus the motorbike?

There is some common- Some common things which like the weather, for example, whether you go much lighter than, you know, I thought I was very minimalist with travelling on the motorbike than when they want a push bike and it's even worse like it's- It's slower, it's good, I think it's physical, so you keep being fit and moving all the time and it's- it amazed me once I think it's about the distance, I guess.

So, you know, it was just, like you said, the distance, like, for example, crossing across the Tanami Road on the motorbike, so that's the road that goes from WA to Alice Springs. 1,000 kilometres, 800km without fuel, without fuel station, fuel service. And...

This is where you see that sign, is it? There's no fuel for the next- Yeah.

No fuel for next 800km. And you're like, oOh. And like, if you compare that to France, it's like...

That's the country, right? The length of the country.

From where I'm from, I can go to East Europe with the amount of fuel I had on the motorbike, like, it was just madness like how big Australia is. Like, it was, there were a places where I spend a couple days without seeing anyone. So, just 40- Almost 48 hours without- You don't see anybody. It's very...

What was that like mentally, though? I didn't really- I wanted to get to that for the big trip around Australia. You did 109 days effectively on your own. I mean, I imagine you had interactions with people here and there. But- And like, I don't know how good your phone reception was, either in terms of being able to call up family and friends, too. Was it a real battle mentally?

I think it's always challenging at some times, like it's depend on, you know? When you do- I think you ex- I expected it but, you... it's as well the challenge and the freedom I was looking for. It's like being on your own and doing those days without maybe without reception or like the choice to make by yourself and find out what you want or like, you know, it's-

Like, we were talking about risk taking or not, like it's- And just being your own responsibility, you know, you can't really check in and be like, am I being stupid or-? Or should I do it? Should I not? And...

Well, it must be pretty freeing as well, right? I imagine you don't have other people to worry about, you don't have family there. You don't have work. You don't have a phone constantly going off. You're not checking Facebook or Instagram.

Yeah. No, it's definitely more up and down, but there is a few down when, you know, you it's you can end up being like, oh, like, what am I doing here? Like, you know, I don't know. You always have, I think, both questions. Or sometimes it's more like about- When you travel solo, it's mainly the missing fact of not being able to share with people.

Yeah.

If you see something cool and you're like, oh, like, that's a lot, like a lot to talk about it with someone after or just being like, did you see that? Like, that's maybe more the dumb things I think about going solo, it's you're not able to share as much as you would like, but. On the other hand, being solo, you just need more people.

Yeah.

So, every time I was pulling up somewhere, people would come and...

Well, you must savour those interactions as well, right? And be like, oh my God, people. Let's have a chat. How are you? Where are you from? What's going on? How's your mother?

And people were so kind, like people were offering me like, you know, either like, oh, you must be exhausted. Do you want a cold beer? Do you want veggie? Do you want dinner? Do you want to eat with us? Or like firewood for the night? Like every night it was like- I think, the first week I cooked once or twice...

Wow, okay.

...And every other time was people inviting me for dinner.

Yeah.

That was like amazing. That was so, so good.

So, how would you suggest to people listening to this and thinking, you know- And this is something that I sort of suffered from when I was watching, you do this, I'm like, fuck. I would love to be able to do these sorts of trips. But oh man, I could never do it. I could never do it, you know, family aside, all of that sort of thing. I'm just like, why?

Just, you know, I don't know how bikes work. I don't know how to repair them. I'm sure I wouldn't be able to handle it. You know, what are the kinds of things that you would say to someone who would love to do it but thinks they couldn't? You know, how would you prepare for something like this? And can the average person do it?

I think so. Like, I got some, I think it was like some positive from my side doing mechanics, so I wasn't that scared about breaking down in the middle of nowhere pretty much because. Well, there's things I can fix and stuff I can't.

But I guess you've got to trust the- Like I say, I got the locator beacon on me, so that was my safety net and I felt like, you know, if you take enough fuel- I always had the same mindset, it's like, I have my credit card and money to buy stuff if I need to. I had my safety device and I've got enough water and food to last few days.

And from then- I mean, the chance of, like, I guess something bad and dying out there is very little. But if you restrain those things, then after anyone, I think anyone can do it. You'll always meet people, you know, people are very friendly. If you break down on the side of the road, you got like 90% of chance, 99% of chance I would say that people are going to stop and help you out, you know.

I would stop sometime just to have a drink, have a snack and people would stop, do you have enough water? Do you have enough food? Do you want to have fruits? Do you want something? So, it's- And even more being in the outback there, it's- People knows what it's like, so they help each other. You know, you may stop for someone, and that someone might stop for you 100km further.

Yeah...

So, it's...

What goes around comes around.

Yeah, exactly. So, I think everyone can do it. Like I've met people, like I met a woman who was travelling on a motorbike. Very good stories, she is, good and sad her parents passed away last year or 2 years ago, and she found out their diary...

Oh, no.

...And they've been travelling around Australia 20 years ago.

Yeah.

And she's doing the same trip. So, they've been documenting everything every day with picture and everything. And she's been doing that on a motorbike...

Whilst with her being able to compare with her parents...

She's just following the diary, like day by day, almost.

Wow.

...Knowing that full things. And she's got no mechanical skills, she just left with a tent, and I think- I can't remember. She must be about her fifties, I think. And it's just amazing. Like...

Wow.

So, I'm not the only one. I can sometimes, like almost feel like, you know, that I'm cheating the- I'm like, oh, I've got the skill to fix the motorbike. I'm not that scared about that, and I'm more like, you know, impressed by people like her doing it when, like if something happened, they just don't know.

Yeah.

Well, what can I do? Like I can- There is only so little I can fix, but they still go. So, I think it's taking the chance and going for it.

So, what can people do, though, to prepare for a journey like this? Is it the kind of thing where, you know, obviously learn the basics about how a motorbike functions so that if, you know, you can fix whatever you can fix, if possible? But then do you need to learn things about, you know, food and rationing and obviously map reading and everything like that to try and get prepared as best as you can?

Yeah, I think it's like any travel in a journey when you do those big trip it's- You can't really plan everything because it's all going to change.

Yeah.

Like I will- What I will do is sit up in my tent every night and plan my next day. So, I would like, if I was feeling like doing 200km, I would just do 200km and maybe stop there and there and check a waterfall, check a canyon or- Or then you meet people and people are like, oh, you should go there, like, it's- Or maybe, pass that one because it's not that suitable.

And in terms of food, you just, you know, it's like you keep- I always had like a day or two of like tuna and very dry food to make sure I could just break down anywhere and have some food.

Yeah.

And then from there you just, you know, just up to the shop, you go to- That's where it's a bit different from the pushbike coming back to Tasmania, where you would be more limited with that. Like you can't just drive 50km out of your direction to go to the shop, you know, because 50km it's already half a day or even more, right...

Yeah.

So, it- There is always a bit of planning, but I think you can sort it out and just pick them up. Where is the shop? Next shop. Next fuel.

Yeah.

Get your food and get on.

Is that normally on the map, too? You'll have that just marked there, the shops and the food places and everything or?

Well, most of small towns I go to, you know, a little IGA or a general store or...

Yeah.

...You can... or a service station like or at least something that can help you out. It's not going to be any French food. Most of the time you'll get rice or those tuna-something, you can just pack, doesn't matter about the weather and the conditions or- That's what I've been living on for a while or what, just like eating, you know, rice, pasta, tuna, dry food, pretty much.

And every time I'll get somewhere where I could have some veggies and fruits or like even just a bit of meat that would go through the to the pub and buy a beer and have a pub meal and off I go again, so that's great.

Awesome, man. Well, what's next?

Back to work.

So, there's no other trips coming up in the- Or are you planning something in, you know, the near or distant future at all?

No, no. I mean, there is always many trips.

Yeah.

I've learnt going to Tasmania that you can cross the bus trail on a kayak, so. I don't know.

Yeah.

That's something that seems very cool to me now, but...

I interviewed; I think his name was Beau Miles. Have you seen his channel?

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. He's got a four part, I think, a four-part series of him doing it. Yeah. That's...

I watched it this week.

Yeah, that's intense. So, you're thinking about doing that, are you?

I mean, like, I've been watching it this weekend because I was on somewhere on The Spirit (of Tasmania) and I was like, oh, that looks cool. But that might be- That might not be- No, no. I'll be working, going back to France hopefully this Australian winter, somewhere in France to see all the families and everybody.

God. That freedom must feel good with citizenship in Australia, where you're just like, I don't have to worry about visa bullshit when I come back in, if I can, if I can't.

And spend time away, like, because all those visa, all the time I got the visa, you can't spend more than...

That's right.

...2 months-something, 90 days...

Yeah.

...Outside the country, so.

Yeah.

It's, yeah, the freedom, the weight off the shoulders to get, once you get even just the PR, I guess. Like, it's- Because the citizenship is just a small- Compared to the investment for the PR, just a small step.

It's not small. We spent $10,000 on it, paying the fees and getting a lawyer to do it. We waited 3 years and it just kept getting delayed. My wife had to do the medical exam and that took a year because of the COVID lockdowns. It just kept getting delayed and delayed and delayed.

Or she had her period and they'd be like, yeah, you can't do it because you're on your period. And you're just like, fuck me, man. It's the last step. It's the last goddamn step. Just let us smash it out.

It's crazy. Well, once you get there, the citizen, it's... You got the test, but it's pretty...

Basic.

Basic, yeah. Pretty much. And then you're done and it's, yeah, it's a good, good feeling like. Can she have both citizenship?

Yeah, I think Brazil is fine as far as I know, yeah, she should be able to have dual citizenship.

Because I think some countries can't get there like...

Yeah, I'm not sure which ones. I've heard that though, where you are forced to give one up. You know, I think- I don't know if Canada's like that. Yeah. There's some interesting rules out there for certain places. And I've got a dual citizenship with the UK, although I've never been there.

Because my mum was born there on a holiday, so ironically, being born there, when you're from the Commonwealth, you automatically get citizenship. So, yeah, it's funny. How did you end up in Wollongong? You know, to sort of finish up here. I remember you were in Melbourne for ages, but yeah, you've sort of settled there, which- And this is just south of Sydney by an hour or 2, right?

Yeah, an hour south of Sydney.

Yeah.

Well, after Melbourne, I ended up going for work in Perth, in WA, then I spent a year there, then- Which is my job, then followed the sorts of spots. Then my best friend always lived in Wollongong, and what was supposed to be just kind of a stopover and keep going up the East Coast and check Brisbane and Cairns ended up being like, I think 3 years now. 3 years I've been here...

Yeah. How does it rate? Is it better than Melbourne? You enjoying it?

Yeah, I think I'm not a city person, so I think Wollongong is a good compromise between like the coast, the Blue Mountains, Sydney, when you want to go and take the international airport. So, it's been good, I think, and from seeing what I've seen around from Australia and Tasmania, I'm pretty happy with what Wollongong has to offer so far.

So, that's a big deal. That was as well, I guess, a point of travelling around Australia is to keep checking if there is somewhere else I would rather live than Wollongong, Melbourne or Perth, so. But Wollongong it is, for I don't know. A bit, I don't know. Maybe 3 years, we'll see.

Awesome, dude. Well, Anthony, thanks so much for coming on, and you'll have to keep us posted. You'll have to let us know if you find somewhere better than Wollongong, Melbourne, or Perth. Share it with us. But thanks, mate, and we'll have to have you on again in the future.

No problem. Good to see you.

Cheers.

See ya, man.

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The post AE 1101 – Interview: 109 Days Alone in the Australian Outback with Anthony Elorrioroz appeared first on Aussie English.

AE 1058 – The Goss: Training Bacteria to Eat Metal Mining Waste

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AE 1051 – Expression: A Wild Goose Chase

Peter — Sun, 14 Nov 2021 08:00:00 +0000

AE 1051 - EXPRESSION:

A Wild Goose Chase

Learn Australian English in this expression episode of the Aussie English Podcast.

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In today's episode...

G’day, you mob!

Here’s a new English expression to broaden your vocabulary!

In this episode, I will teach you about the English expression “a wild goose chase”.

Discover its origins — a very famous playwright first wrote it!

You will also hear a cute love story about a Canadian goose named Arnold.

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Finally, for the listening skills exercise, try to write down what the dialog is in this short clip from Wolf Creek 2.

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Transcript of AE 1051 - Expression: A Wild Goose Chase

G'day, you mob, and welcome to Aussie English. I am your host, Pete, and my objective here is to teach you guys the English spoken down under. So, whether you want to sound like a fair dinkum Aussie or you just want to understand what the flipping hell we're on about when we're having a yarn you've come to the right place. So, sit back, grab a cuppa and enjoy Aussie English. Let's go.

G'day, you mob. Pete here, welcome to this episode of Aussie English. The number one place for anyone and everyone wanting to learn Australian English. This is another expression episode, guys. I'm looking forward to diving into this. It's been a busy week, hanging out with kids, they've been going nanas, they've been going bananas, berserk, everything like that.

We went away on holiday to Apollo Bay, so I'm current- Getting a phone call. Someone from Point Cook, who's going to be calling me from Point Cook? All right. Cancel that, sorry about the interruption, guys. So, what was I saying? Yeah, we went to Apollo Bay. In fact, I'll make sure that I have turned my phone onto silent, so that doesn't happen again.

In fact, I better make sure I've actually turned it onto aeroplane mode because my computer rings. All right, let's get back to it. I'm not going to start this again. This is just part of the experience. So, we went to Apollo Bay recently, which was amazing. Good little trip.

It was less stressful than we were expecting with the two kids. It's only about two hours' drive away. But yeah, that was lots of fun. And I'm currently putting together the little vlog/English lesson videos for the three days that we were down there. We created one showing you the house that we rented, teaching you the vocab of the house, giving you the layout, you know, what to expect from a holiday rental.

And then we did one about beer and we did another one, and I've forgotten what we talked about in that one. Dad and I did two different episodes. But anyway, they'll be up soon enough, and you'll get to check those out, hopefully. Besides that, guys, I've got some new Aussie English merch. I don't know if you can see right here. Slap the bird.

You guys keep asking me, what does "slap the bird" mean? And I just made this up as a way to transition to the Kookaburra singing, laughing when we go into the Aussie English joke, I always just say "slap the bird". So, I decided to create some t-shirts.

Guys, if you want to get these, just go to AussieEnglish.com.au/shirt. Okay. S-H-I-R-T. And you can pick one of these up, it should arrive pretty quickly. I'm using a website called Redbubble, and they seem to have better quality shirts as well as more options for you.

So, go have a look. But yeah, if you grab one, you're supporting Aussie English, what I do here. And I would love to see you wearing these t-shirts wherever you are in the world. So, if you do grab one, make sure to snap a photo of yourself in the t-shirt, send it to me and I'll publish it on my Instagram, if you'd like. Anyway, let's get into today's episode.

So, to begin with, as you've heard recently, we have a little Q and A section. So, I've been recently asking on Instagram, you know, you guys each Monday, do you want to ask me a question about English, Australia, whatever? And it seems like every single week you guys ask me; how do you pronounce flower and flour? Right. Like a flower from a plant and the flour you use to make bread.

So, I get this all the time. We've got one here from Rafa, one from Majid and another one from Nere. They all are, how do you pronounce flower and flour? As you have probably just worked out, they are exactly the same pronunciation.

Flour, I make bread with flour. I went into the garden and picked a flower. They're pronounced exactly the same way. Flower (maybe flour). The interesting thing here to mention is this is not necessarily the case in all dialects of English.

In fact, I was recently doing a little, I don't know, I went down a rabbit hole on YouTube and came across some Appalachian English. This is from the east part of the United States in the mountainous regions of places like, I think, Louisiana.

Correct me if I'm wrong, guys. But they pronounce it as flour and flower, I think. I'll play some of the audio so that you can hear it. But I was astonished. I'd never heard those two words pronounced differently, so I thought that was epic, that was awesome.

When I was a kid and carry a 25 pound polka flower home- That's flour, by the way, not flour.

Anyway, time to get into this week's news story. All right, so this week in the United States, a wild Canadian goose was being treated by vets after it developed a rather significant limp. The goose, nicknamed Arnold, had been found limping around a pond and it was taken to the New England Wildlife Centre in Massachusetts to undergo a check-up.

That's a difficult word, Massachusetts. Wonder if you guys can say that. The staff discovered two fractures inside poor little Arnold's foot, which threatened his survival. As a result, they prepped the goose for surgery, and they were surprised to hear a faint tapping on the clinic door.

It turned out that Arnold's girlfriend had tracked him down to the clinic and decided to stand by the window and watch the entire procedure. She was agitated that she couldn't get inside to see him as he was being operated on. She remained there the entire time throughout the procedure, watching the people work and never moving away from the doorway.

On seeing her desperation, the staff actually decided to let Arnold recover from the surgery just by the door where he was close to his mate, and she immediately calmed down. Arnold will need several weeks of follow up treatment after surgery but should be as right as rain to go back into the wild with his girlfriend no worse for wear.

So, that was an incredible story, guys, and I had to share that. And it's obviously tied in with today's expression "a wild goose chase". And you may hear this quite often as "to go on a wild goose chase", but we'll get into that shortly. All right, guys, slap the bird. Let's get into the joke.

All right. So, you guys are going to hate me. This is another amazing dad joke, but I couldn't help myself. I was searching for goose jokes or geese jokes if you want to use the plural there. These are irregular nouns in English goose, a goose, several geese.

So, yeah, I was looking up a goose joke, and here's what I found. Hold your laughter and hold your applause. In what language does a goose speak? In what language does a goose speak? You ready? Portugeese. Portugeese. Get it? The word Portuguese, Português, a lingua do Brasil, A Portugal.

The language of Brazil and Portugal, it's Portuguese with a Z sound. But obviously the pun here is on that word "Portuguese" and the plural of goose, geese. So, in what language does a goose speak? Portugeese. All right, let's get into the expression. So, the expression is "a wild goose chase, to go on a wild goose chase". Let's break down the different words in this phrase.

So, you'll know "a", or "a", right, the indefinite article, a goose, some geese. It's singular. "Wild". "Wild" is living or growing in the natural environment. So, if an animal or environment is not domesticated or not cultivated, it is "wild". There are wild kangaroos that live in the Aussie bush as opposed to, say, those kept in a zoo or as pets. A "goose". A "goose" is a large water bird with a long neck, short legs, webbed feet.

That's where you've got the connection between your digits on your feet or your hands, webbed toes, web fingers. So, he has webbed feet and a short, broad bill. Generally, geese are larger than ducks and have longer necks and shorter bills.

So, they do look quite a bit like ducks, but they're kind of like halfway between a duck and a swan. So, the farmer has a lot of ducks and geese on his farm. Remember, the plural of goose is geese. No need to chuck an "S" on the end of that. G-E-E-S-E, geese. And lastly, a "chase" is the act of pursuing someone or something.

So, the police got called to a car "chase" or the cheetah "chases" the gazelle on the Serengeti plains, right, to "chase". So, what is the expression "a wild goose chase" mean? Right, is it just about a goose that's wild getting chased? Or maybe a goose that's wild chasing you? No, "a wild goose chase" is a foolish and hopeless search for or pursuit of something unattainable.

So, "a wild goose chase" is like a frustrating enterprise, a frustrating thing that you undergo that involves wasting a lot of time and energy trying to achieve something, well, trying to find something, and then obviously having nothing to show for it. All right. So, where did this come from? The idiom "Wild Goose Chase" was first written down by William Shakespeare in the play Romeo and Juliet in the year 1595.

How crazy is that? Quote, "nay, if thy wits run the wild-goose chase, I have done, for thou hast more of the wild-goose in one of thy wits than, I am sure, I have in my whole five." Interestingly, the term "wild goose chase" was first used to mean a type of horse race. In a wild goose chase horse race, the lead rider galloped across the open countryside in an erratic pattern.

Subsequent riders were to follow at different intervals and had to follow the exact pattern of the lead rider, the idea of geese flying in a formation following one another. The exact rules of a wild geese chase are unclear, but it seems reasonable to assume the object is to overtake the leader.

So, that was an excerpt from Grammarist.com, go check them out to learn more about these sorts of expressions and where they come from. So, let's go through three examples of how I would use "a wild goose chase" in day-to-day life. Example number one. Our daughter is allergic to something at the moment, but we're kind of finding it hard to work out what it is that she has an allergy to.

So, imagine my wife finds some specific brand or formula of milk for babies online and tells me, you know, I need to go and try and track this down at the local store. So, the online shop has none of it left. I end up going to Woollies, there's nothing there. I go to Coles, can't find anything. I go to the IGA supermarket, there's nothing there. I never end up finding it.

So, when I come home, I say, you know, "Kel, you've sent me on a wild goose chase. I've gone on this journey looking for this thing, trying to obtain it, and have nothing to show for it. It was a wild goose chase."

Example number two. Imagine that a bank has been robbed by a bunch of thieves, right. The cops get called, the police. They go to the bank; they rock up there. But there's no robbers to be seen. They have disappeared into thin air. They've fled on foot, right. They've run off. So, the cops have to try and get in their cars, drive around, spread out, try and find them, track them down.

Maybe they see them. They pile out of their car. They chase them down alleys, over fences, into gardens. But eventually the thieves get the better of them and just completely disappear and get away, right. They get away with everything.

So, the cops never end up tracking them down, instead, they've been led on "a wild goose chase". So, they've been going all over the place trying to capture these villains, these thieves. They have nothing to show for it in the end. It was just "a wild goose chase".

Example number three. So, the other day, the wind was blowing so crazily strong around our house it was going nuts. And the guinea pigs' hutch where we keep the guinea pigs, the hutch is that kind of little wooden box house that they live in. It blew over. And I only noticed in the morning when I looked out the window and obviously was like, what the hell, the guinea pigs' hutch is on its side?

And the guinea pigs were running around all over the place. So, I went out into the yard and had the hardest time of my life trying to capture these guys. They were running around the grass, hiding under things, running along the fence.

I was terrified they were going to get through a hole in the fence and just disappear for good. Eventually, my wife came out and she's the one who caught them. But I was sent on "a wild goose chase". I went on "a wild goose chase" trying to capture the pigs, get the guinea pigs and put them back in their hutch. It was "a wild goose chase".

So, hopefully now, guys, you understand the expression, "a wild goose chase". You can be sent on "a wild goose chase". You can go on "a wild goose chase". It is a foolish and hopeless search for or pursuit of something unobtainable. So, the idea being that you try really hard to get something, to capture something, to obtain it, going different places, putting in a lot of effort and time, but then have nothing to show for it ultimately.

It's "a wild goose chase". So, as usual, let's go through a little pronunciation exercise here. So, this is a listen and repeat exercise. Try and find somewhere quiet, away from people where you're going to feel confident speaking out loud. Listen to me, say these words and phrases, and then repeat them after me as a sort of shadowing exercise. Okay. So, are you ready? Let's go.

"A. A wild. A wild goose. A wild goose chase. A wild goose chase. A wild goose chase. A wild goose chase. A wild goose chase. I went on a wild goose chase. You went on a wild goose chase. He went on a wild goose chase. She went on a wild goose chase. We went on a wild goose chase. They went on a wild goose chase. It went on a wild goose chase.

Great job, guys, great job. So, there's some interesting stuff going on here, you can say "a wild goose chase". But if we link this all together, the D at the end of "wild" becomes muted because there's a consonant straight after it. So, you'll hear "a wil∅ goose chase, a wild goose chase". You can release it. You may also hear "a wild goose chase" where it's kind of lightly released. "A wild goose chase".

But you may also hear "a wil∅ goose chase, a wild goose chase". Just do what feels most natural to you. The last thing I want to mention here is the interesting thing that happens with the word "went". So, "went" obviously ends with a hard T sound. "Went". But there's an interesting little rule that happens when a word ends with "nt" or a syllable ends with "nt", and there's another vowel that comes after it.

You're not going to hear the T. Instead, you'll hear "when, when", like, when are you going to do that? It sounds similar to "when", okay, or exactly the same, actually. So, instead of hearing, "I went on a wild goose chase", you'll hear I wen∅ on a wild goose chase".

The reason this happens is because the position in the mouth to make an N sound and a T sound, at least the first half of the T sound before you release it is the same position. The tongue is touching the roof of the mouth, blocking the air from coming out, "went", right.

Because you're going straight into a vowel sound and you release that T sound, you're actually not saying the T and you just release the N. So, "wenn'on, wenn'on, wenn'on, I wenn'on a wild goose chase. You wenn'on a wild goose chase." It sounds a bit weird if you were to say, "I went on a wild goose chase" because you break the sentence up. "I went on a wild goose chase. I went on a wild goose chase."

So, that's it for the pronunciation exercise, guys. The last little thing here, as we've been doing recently, is listening to a clip from a TV show or film from Australia and testing your listening comprehension of some quickly spoken, naturally spoken Australian English. So, I'm going to play this clip twice. It's from the movie Wolf Creek 2.

This is a really good movie if you like sort of horror movie style films or TV shows. Effectively, the story is that backpackers get kidnapped, murdered or escape from a psychopath in the Australian outback, right. He's out there effectively just looking for people to kill and do other horrible things to.

So, anyway, I'm going to play this clip for you once. See if you can understand everything that's happening. You know, get a piece of paper, see if you can write down what you hear. Pause it. You can rewind if you need. But listen to it and see if you can do it without reading the answer. If you want the answer, it'll be in the transcript or in the worksheet that you can download with this episode. Okay. So, here it is the first time.

Get a bit stuck on the big words every now and then, but you know, yeah, I can read pretty good.

Good job. All right, time for number two. You ready? Let's go.

Get a bit stuck on the big words every now and then, but you know, yeah, I can read pretty good.

All right. So, that's it for today, guys. Don't forget if you want to check out these t-shirts, go to AussieEnglish.com.au/shirt. And if you want the full transcripts, the video lessons, the other bonuses and everything like that related to these expression episodes, as well as every other episode on the Aussie English podcast. Be sure to sign up for the Premium podcast at AussieEnglish.com.au/podcast.

Thanks for joining me, guys, and I'll see you mob next time. Catch ya!

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Today's Vocab:

Here is a glossary of all the important vocabulary from today’s lesson.

Don’t forget, you’ll be able to see when and where the vocabulary was used in the transcript PDF for this episode, which you can download above.

Go nanas/bananas – (Aussie slang) Go crazy; Go nuts.
Aeroplane mode – A setting on mobile phones and other devices that prevents the device from sending or receiving calls, etc.
A holiday rental – A place you rent to spend your holiday.
Merch – (Slang) Merchandise, i.e. t-shirts, jumpers, mugs, hats, etc.
Pick something up – Purchase or get something.
Snap a photo – Take a photo.
Q&A – Question and answer.
Go down a rabbit-hole – A metaphor for something that transports you somewhere unexpected.
Tie in with something – Connect with something.
Allergic to something – Having an allergy to a substance.
Track something down – Find something.
Woolies (Woolworths), Coles, IGA – Supermarket chains in Australia.
Rock up somewhere – (Aussie slang) Arrive somewhere.
Disappear into thin air – Vanish.
Get the better of someone – Defeat or trick someone.
A hutch – A box or cage, typically with a wire mesh front, for keeping rabbits or other small domesticated animals.
A backpacker – A person who travels or hikes carrying their belongings in a rucksack.

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The post AE 1051 – Expression: A Wild Goose Chase appeared first on Aussie English.

AE 1037 – The Goss: NSW Premier Resigns Amid ICAC Corruption Investigations

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AE 1023 – Expression: A Fish Out of Water

Peter — Sun, 10 Oct 2021 08:00:00 +0000

AE 1023 - EXPRESSION:

A Fish Out of Water

Learn Australian English in this expression episode of the Aussie English Podcast.

These episodes aim to teach you common English expressions as well as give you a fair dinkum true-blue dose of Aussie culture, history, and news and current affairs.

In today's episode...

Hey, you mob!

Here is another English expression to add to your growing list of vocabulary!

In this episode, I will teach you about the English expression “like a fish out of water”!

Maybe you’ve seen a fish pulled out of the water. It wriggles and flops around, right? How do you think the fish “feels”? That is our lesson for today!

Also, I will be answering a question from @rurrochman — “How often do spiders actually come out [in Australia]?” — hmm, very interesting, considering how much bad press these Australian spiders get, especially on the Internet.

Listen to a story about an Aussie angler who caught the SAME flathead fish 3 times in a row! The fish just loves getting hooked, doesn’t it?

And because you’ve been asking me to talk about Australian TV shows, let me introduce you to Seachange!

I get very nostalgic seeing this TV series because it was filmed where I grew up. This is a great resource for you guys if you want to learn more about Australian culture, slang, and expressions.

Did you watch/listen till the end? How would you answer the last question? Let me know in the comments!

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Improve your listening skills today – listen, play, & pause this episode – and start speaking like a native English speaker!

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Transcript of AE 1023 - Expression: A Fish Out of Water

G'day, you mob, and welcome to Aussie English. I am your host, Pete, and my objective here is to teach you guys the English spoken down under. So, whether you want to sound like a fair dinkum Aussie or you just want to understand what the flipping hell we're on about when we're having a yarn, you've come to the right place. So, sit back, grab a cuppa and enjoy Aussie English. Let's go.

G'day you, mob. How's it going? Welcome to this episode of the Aussie English podcast, the number one place for anyone and everyone wanting to learn Australian English. Now, I hope, as the introduction says, you guys have grabbed yourself a cuppa, that is a cup of, and it can be tea or coffee. I mean, you can really get yourself a cup of whatever you want, beer, water, whisky. But generally, in Australian English, we mean a coffee or a tea.

So, I've got one here in front of me. I'm going to have a little sip. Because as what usually happens, I make myself a cuppa, do these lessons and then forget to drink it and after the fact, after I finished these lessons it's stone cold. It is incredibly cold after the fact. So, anyway, guys, welcome to this episode. I'm looking forward to hanging out with you guys today, kicking back and relaxing.

It's been a little while since I have batched a few of these expression episodes because I have just been run off my feet. I have been flat out, flat out like a lizard drinking with my kids, my family. We've been in lockdown. There's been no day-care. It's just been- It's been crazy. It has been crazy. So, it's just been a lot of moving parts, a lot of things to organise.

So, at the moment, my kids are all sleeping, and I can record without getting screams or cries or yells or shouts in the background. So, before we get into today's episode, guys remember if you will like all the transcripts for these episodes, all the bonus episodes, the videos that go with some of these episodes like the expression episode that you are either watching or listening to today.

Be sure to sign up for the Premium podcast, so you can find that at AussieEnglish.com/podcast. And don't forget, too, that I have a bunch of courses on the website. So, if you're interested in improving your use of phrasal verbs and mastering these so that you can sound a lot more natural, check out my phrasal verb course. That's a really good way of learning phrasal verbs, and how to use them. Learning the concepts.

If you want to improve your pronunciation, check out my Australian pronunciation course where I teach you all the sounds in English. And then I recently added 25 advanced lessons. I've got a spoken English course in there, too, about reductions and contractions. And a listening comprehension course which is called the real English discussion's course.

So, go check those out. Now, I wanted to mention I have written these four lessons. This is the first of the four that I'm recording, and I have changed the structure a little bit to just see how they go. Okay, so to begin with, let's do a little question and answer. So, today's question comes from @rurrochman: How often do spiders actually come out in Australia? He loves Australia, but he's scared of spiders.

So, this is a bit of a stereotype. In Australia, you are going to see spiders quite often, but typically they're not going to be dangerous spiders. There are only two deadly spiders in Australia, the Redback Spider and the Sydney Funnel Web Spider, and they have not killed anyone since, I think, the 1970s. There's anti-venom for both of those spiders, so if you ever get bitten, go to the hospital.

She'll be right. She'll be sweet. You'll be okay. Okay? But typically, you will see spiders, you know, there are daddy long legs spiders, white tip spiders, huntsman's, they come into the house here. The further north you go generally, you're going to see probably more spiders around the place because there's a lot more wildlife. So, they are here, but typically they're benign. They're not going to harm you.

Just use a cup and some paper, take them outside, let them go on their way. Because remember, they're the things that stand between you and all the annoying insects in Australia. Things like mozzies, the blow flies, everything like that. So, don't go on a spider killing spree, there the thing standing between you and the bugs. All right, so I hope you enjoyed that little question and answer.

I'm thinking about getting audio or video questions from members of the Aussie English podcast or academy, or even you guys listening and letting them ask their questions, letting you guys ask your questions on the podcast in audio, so that you can actually use your English. So, make sure that you let me know what you reckon about that and if it's something you would like to do in the future.

So, now let's get into this week's news story. So, a monster sized flathead has been caught four times. Dan Guilfoyle has ended up with the behemoth fish on the other end of his line for a third time this week. The first time being when this fish was caught and tagged. It's been caught a further three times since it was first tagged at Lake Macquarie in the New South Wales Hunter region in mid-2019.

When asked if he was a particularly talented angler or if the fish was just flat out dumb, Dan said neither. He described himself as a rather persistent fisherman and that the fish are often creatures of habit that, if caught and released, may end up back on the line sooner rather than later.

According to New South Wales Department of Primary Industries, this fish in question, this dusky flathead has been caught and released three further times from where it was first caught within a 500-metre radius. It's grown two centimetres since it was last caught and is now a whopping 85 centimetres in length. The fish have a catch and release survival rate of more than 90%.

Mr Guilfoyle, who doesn't actually eat fish and instead only wets a line for the sport of it, said, he was absolutely stoked to catch the flatty again and see it thriving out there in the wild. So, there you go, guys, and I thought, you know what? We're doing fish today. We're talking about fish and the expressions of "fish out of water". We've got to do a fish joke, right? So, slap the bird and let's get into the joke.

I was on the phone to my grandma the other day and we were discussing how my grandpa was getting on in the nursing home. I said, how is he coping, getting on alright? And she replied, oh no. He's like a fish out of water. So, I said, oh, is he finding it quite hard to adjust? And she replied, no, he's dead. So, a bit of a dark joke there, guys, a bit of a dark joke. But I thought it was funny and had to share it with you guys.

I love those sort of diversions, right? You're expecting it to go one way and then all of a sudden it goes a dark sort of black humour way. So, the joke here is obviously that if you feel like "a fish out of water", we'll get to that in a bit. It's sort of to be uncomfortable, right. But here she says, no, he's dead, like a fish out of water would die because it can't breathe. Its gills don't work. So, there's the joke.

All right. So, today's expression is "a fish out of water", often used as like "a fish out of water", right. You're comparing one thing or a person to a fish being out of water, where a fish is going to be pretty uncomfortable. So, let's go through and define the words. We'll define the definition of this expression. We'll go through the origin and then we can go through some examples.

We'll go through a pronunciation exercise and then I've got a little surprise for you at the end of today's episode. So, "a fish", I'm sure you'll know what "a fish" is. It is a limbless, cold blooded vertebrate animal with gills and fins that lives wholly in the water.

So, the fisherman loves catching "fish". Or he's got a few "fish" in his pond, a few "goldfish" maybe. Maybe a- What are they called again? A few "koi fish". The Japanese- "Koi fish". What am I smoking? What am I smoking? "Koi fish". They're "koi fish"

"Out". If you're "out" of something you are not in, you are not within that thing. So, the dog might run "out" of his kennel, right. He's exiting his kennel. Or the kids came "out" of the yard. They exited the yard. They're not within it anymore. And lastly, "water", again, something you're going to know if you speak English well enough to understand these episodes.

It is that colourless, transparent, odourless liquid that forms seas, lakes, rivers and rain and is the basis of the fluids of living organisms like you and me, and like fish. So, humans are 60% or more "water". So, the definition of the expression "a fish out of water" or to be "like a fish out of water", it is where a person is away from his or her usual environment or activities, right.

So, someone is confronted with a particular situation that causes anxiety. That person is uncomfortable. They are in a new and unknown environment. They are "a fish out of water". Now the origin, according to knowyourphrase.com, this phrase was written down by an English poet named Geoffrey Chaucer in a work of his from the year 1483. Look at that, 530 years ago. Crazy.

"A huge man, uncouth, a master of vessel and knew all the ports. Not ride well, like a fish out of water as sat on his horse." Now it sounds pretty weird to me, but that's probably because this is sort of the turning point between middle English and modern English.

So, some of the words that are used there, and the structure of those sentences are a little bit strange. But nonetheless, he used the expression "like a fish out of water" when sat on his horse. So, he's obviously talking about this guy being really good on any vessel, he knows all the ports, he's really good at sea. But the moment he gets on a horse he feels "like a fish out of water", right, he feels uncomfortable. So, yeah, insane.

This is another one of those English phrases that is just hundreds and hundreds of years old. Really cool. So, now let's go through some examples of how I would use the expression "like a fish out of water" in day-to-day English. So, imagine number one, you start a new hobby, maybe you go rock climbing or you start learning to scuba dive, or maybe you even start a martial art like karate.

If you feel like you're really uncomfortable in that activity, you know it's a new environment, it's very unnatural for you. You feel "like a fish out of water". So, if you just started rock climbing and you've never done anything like this before, you'd barely have any idea what you're doing, right. You don't have the foggiest idea how to rock climb. You will definitely feel "like a fish out of water".

Example number two, imagine you're at work one day and you have to go to a meeting with everyone, right. Suddenly, your boss pulls you aside before the meeting and says, you know what, instead of today me running the meeting, how about you run the meeting?

If this is something that you've never done before and, you know, the thought of having to stand up in front of a crowd and be in charge, public speaking, all that sort of stuff sends chills down your spine. You're probably going to feel "like a fish out of water", right. So, it's not something you're comfortable with. It's a new, unknown environment or activity. You definitely feel like a complete "fish out of water".

Example number three. So, when I was at high school, some of the kids were lucky enough to go overseas to a foreign country for 6 to 12 months. So, this was an exchange trip that many students went on, you know, maybe in year 11 or year 12. So, they'd be lucky enough to live with a family in these countries, I remember some of my friends went to places like France and I think Sweden.

They would have lived with a family. They would have done everything with the family. They would have learnt the language, the culture, gone to school with the kids, everything like that. So, imagine if you are one of these kids going on this kind of exchange. I imagine the moment you get there, you feel "like a fish out of water", right. There's new food, there's a new language, there's a new culture.

You see that the environment is completely different. Everything is so uncomfortable, it's different, you have to get used to it. So, initially you "feel like a fish out of water". So, hopefully, guys, now you understand the expression "a fish out of water, like a fish out of water, to feel like a fish out of water". This is where you feel like you're really uncomfortable.

You're in a new environment, you're doing a new activity, you're confronted with a particular situation that causes anxiety. You "feel like a fish out of water". So, as usual, let's go through a little listen and repeat exercise.

So, this is a speaking exercise. You could consider it a shadowing exercise, pronunciation exercise. Use it however you desire so that you can level up your pronunciation, but focus on my rhythm, intonation, everything like that, the connected speech, you know, all that good stuff. Are you ready? Let's go.

"A. A fish. A fish out. A fish out of. A fish out of water. A fish out of water. A fish out of water. A fish out of water. A fish out of water. I feel like a fish out of water. You feel like a fish out of water. He feels like a fish out of water. She feels like a fish out of water. We feel like a fish out of water. They feel like a fish out of water. It feels like a fish out of water." Great work, guys. Great work.

Now before we get into the final bit. Let's talk a little bit about what was going on there in terms of pronunciation, connected speech and emphasis, right, intonation. So, you'll notice in just the phrase "a fish out of water". If I were to say all these words separated, you'll hear two T's, right. Especially if I enunciate the "T" in the word "water". "A fish out of water".

You'll also hear the F or the V sound, "F" in the spelling in the word "of". So, "a fish out of water". But when I put it together, there are lots of sound changes that happen all at once. Firstly, I don't say the word "A" as "A". I use the schwa sound because it's reduced. I say, /ə/, "ə fish out of water, ə fish out". I link the "SH" at the end of the word "fish" to the word "out", which starts with a vowel sound.

"ə fishæɔt, ə fishæɔt of water". The "T" in "out" turns from a true-T into the T-flap because the word "of" starts with a vowel. So, there's a vowel either side of that "T", "ə fishæɔt ɔ, æɔt ɔ, æɔt ɔ" instead of "out of". "Of" loses the V sound, the "F" in the spelling and just becomes another schwa, "ə, ə fishæɔt ɔə, ə fishæɔt ɔə water". And the "T" in "water" becomes a T-flap as well.

So, there are so many changes going on. But the key here is to becoming aware, becoming conscious of these connected speech pronunciation changes so that when you hear people speaking English naturally and quickly, you will be able to understand them. This is the key to understanding quote fast spoken English. It's just getting used to these sound changes that happen when these words all get mushed together. Okay? "A fish out of water".

So, when you go back and do this exercise, pay attention to how the pronunciation changes. "A fish out of water, a fish out of water. I feel like a fish out of water". So, there you go. All right, now to finish, I wanted to try a different little section here instead of the Aussie facts section. You guys have been whingeing, moaning, you know, in a positive way. You've been asking me to talk about Australian TV shows.

So, I have decided to do a little activity here where I'm going to play a sample, a little clip or line out of a TV show or movie. And I want you to listen to this, I'm going to play it two times, obviously you can rewind, you can pause, you can do whatever with the podcast or the video. But I want- I'm not going to show what this is on screen, right.

You're going to see the video in the video and you're going to hear the audio in both the podcast and the video. But I want you to pay attention and see if you can listen and understand to what's what's being said, right. Listen to and understand what's being said. So, I'm going to play this two times. This is a clip from the TV show SeaChange, this is from season three. SeaChange is a really beautiful TV show. It was filmed where I grew up.

I get very nostalgic when I watch this TV show. It's a drama, you know, melodrama. There's a lot of stuff with relationships going on. People were in conflict. And I think it's a really good TV show if you want to learn about Australia, Australian culture, as well as the English that's used because it's full of colloquial English slang terms, expressions. And because it's a drama, it's people talking all the time.

So, it's just chock a block full of dialogue. Anyway. SeaChange, go check it out. So, I'm going to play this two times, okay. I'll play it the first time right now. Are you listening?

How does it happen that some people behave really badly and get away with it, and others try and do the right thing and it never gets noticed?

All right, now, it's time to play it a second time. Are you listening?

How does it happen that some people behave really badly and get away with it, and others try and do the right thing and it never gets noticed?

Good job. Remember, just rewind if you want to hear that again. Obviously, you can listen to the entire episode multiple times if you want. But if you want to focus in on this. Get a piece of paper out, get a pen out, listen multiple times. You can obviously adjust the speed if you're using the premium podcast player. This is probably available on other podcast players, too.

So, you can slow it down, you can have it at normal speed. But use this as a sort of targeted listening comprehension exercise where you try and write out exactly what you hear. And then to check your answer, either download the free PDF that comes with this episode or make sure to get the transcript for this episode if you sign up to the Premium podcast, because that will have the transcript of the exact phrase that was used.

Okay, so I hope you enjoyed this episode, guys. Give me some feedback on what you thought of these two different sections that I've added now, the Q&A section, as well as this sample clip section at the end instead of the Aussie fact. I may not do this every time, but I thought I would try it to see what you reckon. Anyway, thanks for joining me. See you next time.

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Did you know?

Have You Watched 'SeaChange'?

Seachange is an Australian television program that ran from 1998 to 2000 on the ABC and in 2019 on the Nine Network.
“Sea change” means “a profound or notable transformation”.
The TV series follows Laura Gibson (the lead character), a city lawyer, who is made to go on a “sea change” with her children Miranda and Rupert. After experiencing a lot of personal issues in the city, she accepted a magistrate position in a small town called Pearl Bay. Initially, Laura and her kids struggled to fit in, but because of the town’s colorful characters, their family eventually comes to love their new life.
Filming was based at Barwon Heads, Victoria and St Leonards, Victoria, both locations being on the Bellarine Peninsula.
A number of streets in the St Leonards Sea Change Estate have since been named to acknowledge some of the characters of the series.
Many scenes were also filmed in Williamstown (a suburb of Melbourne), including the exterior of the Williamstown Life Saving Club, which became the court house of Pearl Bay.
Tours to see the locations where filming took place were popular in 2003.
One of the long-running jokes on the show is the town bridge. The easiest connection from Pearl Bay to the rest of the world, it had been destroyed years earlier, and attempts to fix it always seem to go awry.
Another recurring joke involves the character ‘Bucket’. This bizarre individual is an unseen character (except in one episode, in the background, when someone waves to him), but he is regularly mentioned.

Further Viewing

Today's Vocab:

Here is a glossary of all the important vocabulary from today’s lesson.

Don’t forget, you’ll be able to see when and where the vocabulary was used in the transcript PDF for this episode, which you can download above.

Stone cold – Very cold.
Hang out with someone – Spend time socialising with someone.
Batch something – Create a number of things in a single sitting.
Flat out (like a lizard drinking) – (Aussie slang) Very busy.
A lot of moving parts – Many variables.
Check something out – Examine something; learn more about something.
Antivenom – An antiserum containing antibodies against specific poisons, especially those in the venom of snakes, spiders, and scorpions.
She’ll be right – (Aussie slang) It’ll be okay.
Stand between you and something – Protect you from something.
Mozzies – (Aussie slang) Mosquitos.
A dark joke – A joke that may seem problematic/horrific/rude to some individuals.
Not have the foggiest (idea) – Have no idea; be clueless.
Send chills down your spine – Scare or frighten you.
Confronted with something – Presented or faced with something.
Enunciated – Say or pronounce clearly.
Mushed – Squashed.
Pay attention to something – Take notice of someone or something.
Whinge – (Aussie slang) Complain.
Nostalgic – Feeling, evoking, or characterised by nostalgia, a sentimental longing for the past.
Chock-a-block full – (Aussie slang) Very full or crowded.
Feedback – Information about reactions to a product, a person’s performance of a task, etc. which is used as a basis for improvement.

Time to feed ya brain, mate!

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AE 1298 – Learn English with a Short Story: Day at the Beach

AE 1297 – The Goss: How ‘Dropping In’ Culture Has Changed in Australia

AE 1296 – The Goss: Gorilla Glasses & Dad’s Crazy Zoo Stories – MEMBERS ONLY

AE 1295 – The Goss: Australia’s Most & Least Ethical Jobs

AE 1294 – The Goss: Australia Just Had the Best Aurora in 500 Years!

AE 1293 – The Goss: Should Aussie Schools Ban Homework?

AE 1292 – How Aussie Do Asian Australians Feel? r_AskAnAustralian

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The post AE 1023 – Expression: A Fish Out of Water appeared first on Aussie English.

AE 1017 – The Goss: The Importance of Critical Thinking

Peter — Fri, 01 Oct 2021 09:00:00 +0000

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AE 1013 – 10 Things Australians Will Never Do | US & European Culture Shock

Peter — Sat, 25 Sep 2021 09:00:00 +0000

AE 1013

10 Things Australians
Will Never Do
| US & European
Culture Shock

Learn Australian English in this
new episode of the Aussie English podcast!

In today's episode...

Here’s Part 2!

What’s going on, guys?

Here’s another set of these hilarious questions on Reddit!

Redditers are being candid on what they think is okay (or acceptable) in their country but completely weird in another.

Let’s see if Aussies have things in common with people in other countries!

Are there any normal things you people do that people from other countries find unusual, like these?

Chuck them down in the comments below, and I’ll tell you if we got those here in Australia, too!

Improve your listening skills today – listen, play, & pause this episode – and start speaking like a native English speaker!

Watch & listen to the convo!

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Transcript of AE 1013 - Normal Things in the US & Europe That Scare Australians

Not being able to make eye contact with people through the cracks in the bathroom stall door. Why do you Americans do this to yourselves? What? Having your kitchen and laundry combined so that the machines are in the same room. That's really weird. Being expected to know another language other than English. Wow, that would never happen in Australia. They would expect you to know English.

English mother***er, do you speak it?

But I can't imagine them expecting you to know another language unless you went to an area where there was a large community of people, say Italians or Greeks or Vietnamese people, and you went into a store that usually just services that community. Sometimes you'll meet people there who don't even speak English.

So, maybe in that situation they may be like, well, we assume you're not going to try and speak English with us because we speak Vietnamese here.

You are not from around here, are you?

But other than that, no, that'd be very weird. But I can imagine in Europe that happens everywhere. Unions. Just watched 'Cloud Nine' on Netflix, and if someone tried to bust a union in my country, it would make national news and gather massive support. Yeah, so there are lots of unions here in Australia, too. Again, I'm not sure if that would be America or Europe. So, unions are effectively groups that take care of workers' rights in Australia.

So, you'll have like the teacher's union or the workers union at Worksites, Tradies Union, and they look after those workers. I think it would be the same thing in Australia if you tried to bust up a union here and get rid of it, and get rid of unions altogether, people would riot.

And that's not going to happen.

I think you would have a lot of people in the streets protesting. Songs with swear words being broadcasted on the radio or swear words not being covered with a beep tone on TV.

Oh, [beep].

It's always felt weird to me that Americans are all about being free and freedom of speech, but then again, they are scared of some stupid words. Yeah, it's pretty funny. I find that amusing, too, and it happened in Australia when I was growing up. There would be certain restrictions with what type of TV could be shown at what times, and it would be the same for radio.

And so, if it was during a certain period of time like, say, 9am to 7pm in that window, there's probably a restriction and it has to be PG, meaning parental guidance. So, they're not going to have swearing, they're not going to have sex scenes or they're not going to have people talking about adult themes like drugs.

We need to protect the children.

The swear words in music would always be beeped out, but if you're watching late at night or early in the morning, it wouldn't be. The weird thing was that you could always tell what the swear word was for you would hear, f-beep.

***ing sucks.

And so, I always found it kind of redundant. It's like you might as well just mute the whole thing. Guys, I am very aware of the ***ing stupid fact that I have to beep out every ***ing swear word, because ***ing YouTube will demonetise me. Automatically receiving a voting ballot in the mail and getting paid time off to go voting. Jesus, this is Europe.

I can't imagine doing that. I kind- I can imagine getting the voting ballot, that'll happen in Australia, right. That'll- You'll get that in the mail or at least instructions on how to vote, but I can't imagine being paid to go and vote.

I'm rich, bitch!

I don't think that would happen here. Putting mayonnaise on french fries instead of ketchup.

Why would you do that?

Firstly, ketchup. So, this is American. Ketchup, we would never say "ketchup". We would say tomato sauce. Or if you're really Australian, "dead horse". But yeah, it's becoming more and more common to see aioli, which I think is what garlic and mayonnaise being offered at places where you get burgers and chips and everything for you to have the chips dipped in.

So, it's becoming less and less of a weird thing. When I was growing up, it was not something you would have ever seen anywhere. Maybe tartar sauce at a fish and chip place, but not mayonnaise. When I was studying architecture in Prague, the dorms that turned into a hostel in the summer had co-ed showers with private stalls. Everyone took their shower in the stall and then tailed off in the common area together.

Yeah, so I guess the thing here is having toilets where men and women can both go. There are places in Australia where you'll have unisex facilities, so that means that either sex can go and use them. I always found it weird that we kind of have these separated, I guess we probably do it for the sake of children.

But at the same time, it's kind of like, once you have your own family and you live at home with a group of people, everyone uses the bathroom together. It's not really a weird thing. So, I always found it a bit strange that we don't have more unisex facilities, especially if they're all stalls that you can use privately. What are you going to see if they're not change rooms, they're just toilets? Don't find it that weird.

[pooing and screams of disgust]

Letting kids go to school or walk around the neighbourhood by themselves without supervision. A Dutch family moved to the US and their kids went to school on their bikes like they always do. After a while, the police showed up on their doorstep and child protective services. That's weird. That's very weird. In Australia it's pretty common for kids to just walk to school or to ride their bikes to school. There's no issue here.

Will, somebody please call Child Protective Services.

I think people are a lot less Liberal than they used to be, so when my dad was a kid, the age of eight, he was probably out and about in the streets without supervision. For us, it's probably more like once you get to about 12 years old, unless you're going to school. And usually when you're going to school at a younger age, you know, under 12, you're probably going to be with other kids or maybe walking with other family members.

But any time you're going to and from school, there's other people in the street doing the same thing. So, it's kind of pretty safe. Taking the bus, there is so much stigma around public transport in the US, especially buses. And in Europe it's just a totally normal way to get around because no one wants to deal with driving and parking in a big city.

Yeah, in the big cities in Australia, this would be pretty normal getting a bus or getting a train or a tram if you've got them in your city. But when you go out into the more rural areas, it's definitely a little more dodgy. You're going to come across a lot of interesting characters on the bus because generally they're going to be people who don't have the kind of income to be able to purchase a car and drive the car where they want to go.

Or because of certain substances they may be unable to drive a car. So, they'll be young kids or students. But then you're going to get if they're 30, 40, 50 years old, they're going to be probably a little on the strange side quite often.

Bus wankers! Where did that come from? I don't know, it just felt right.

I mean, I've heard a lot of stories. My wife uses the bus sometimes and she's just like, geez, there are some rare units on the bus. Apparently having your laundry machines in the kitchen, I think it would be great, but Americans appear to be horrified by the thought on real estate social media groups. Yeah, that's weird. Having your kitchen and laundry combined so that the machines are in the same room, that's really weird.

You just said...

You would have your washing machine and or your dryer in a laundry, a different room in Australia, and you'll have your dishwasher and everything in the kitchen and never the two shall meet. They'll be separated well and truly. So, that would be a bit of a shock, I think, unless you were living in, say, a one-bedroom apartment or something, or a studio apartment where it's all the same room and there's no space.

So, you make sure, you know, you have all the machines in the same place. But if it's a normal house, you're never going to see that in Australia. Not being able to make eye contact with people through the cracks in the bathroom stall door. Why do you Americans do this to yourselves? What? Not being able to make eye contact with people through the cracks in the bathroom stall door.

That's creepy.

Yeah, I'm not sure what they're asking, to be honest. Are they thinking it's weird because you can't do it or they're thinking it's weird because you can do it? Yeah, I'm not sure about that. Making eye contact through the stall door in the bathroom. I think you would generally just leave people alone. If they go into the toilet, just leave them alone.

Thanks for joining me, guys. I hope you enjoyed this video. Check out this one if you want to learn about culture shock in Australia, and I'll see you next time. Bye.

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Recent Episodes:

AE 1300 – Learn English with a Short Story: Piss-Up at the Pub

AE 1299 – Pete’s 2c: Do You Ring, Call, or Dial Someone on the Phone in Australia?

AE 1298 – Learn English with a Short Story: Day at the Beach

AE 1297 – The Goss: How ‘Dropping In’ Culture Has Changed in Australia

AE 1296 – The Goss: Gorilla Glasses & Dad’s Crazy Zoo Stories – MEMBERS ONLY

AE 1295 – The Goss: Australia’s Most & Least Ethical Jobs

AE 1294 – The Goss: Australia Just Had the Best Aurora in 500 Years!

AE 1293 – The Goss: Should Aussie Schools Ban Homework?

AE 1292 – How Aussie Do Asian Australians Feel? r_AskAnAustralian

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The post AE 1013 – 10 Things Australians Will Never Do | US & European Culture Shock appeared first on Aussie English.

AE 1010 – The Goss: Suing Nirvana and OnlyFans

Peter — Wed, 22 Sep 2021 09:30:00 +0000

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AE 1009 – The Goss: Bennelong’s Incredible Life

Peter — Wed, 22 Sep 2021 09:00:00 +0000

AE 1009 - THE GOSS:

The Goss: Bennelong's Incredible Life

Learn Australian English by listening to this episode of The Goss!

These are conversations with my old man Ian Smissen for you to learn more about Australian culture, news, and current affairs.

In today's episode...

Learn about Australia’s rich culture here on the Aussie English podcast!

In this episode of The Goss, I talk to my dad about the incredible life of Bennelong.

Woollarawarre Bennelong is an Aboriginal Australian who served as an interlocutor — someone who informally explains the views of a government and also can relay messages back to a government.

This remarkable Australian was one of the first native Australians to learn English, and as such, served as a bridge between Europeans and Aboriginal Australians.

There was also a story that he was going to meet King George III at some point. Imagine wearing very different clothes, getting into a very big boat, and leaving your home to meet someone from the other side of the world.

Imagine how valiant he must have been to do all this!

Have you considered moving to another country which is very different from where you grew up? Tell me about it!

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Transcript of AE 1009 - The Goss: Bennelong's Incredible Life

G'day, you mob. Pete here, and this is another episode of Aussie English, the number one place for anyone and everyone wanting to learn Australian English. So, today I have a Goss' episode for you where I sit down with my old man, my father, Ian Smissen, and we talk about the week's news whether locally down under here in Australia or non-locally overseas in other parts of the world.

Okay, and we sometimes also talk about whatever comes to mind, right, if we can think of something interesting to share with you guys related to us or Australia, we also talk about that in The Goss'. So, these episodes are specifically designed to try and give you content about many different topics where we're obviously speaking in English and there are multiple people having a natural and spontaneous conversation in English.

G'day, you mob. Welcome to this episode of The Goss'. Dad, what's the Goss'?

Sorry, just getting myself settled here. Hey, we're still in lockdown. Well, semi-lockdown. But as you can see, I'm not out in the wilderness...

He's in the bush.

...Previous episodes. That's just a photograph, it's Zoom and if I move side to side, if I put- Hang on, I've got an empty glass here. But if I put this up, you get these sort of weird- I just disappear into the- So, it's not legitimate background, but yeah, good to be online, Pete.

I know, I know. We should have organised this sooner.

Yeah. Well, we kept thinking that this is only going to last a few days, so we'll be able to get together again. And it didn't.

Exactly. So, what's today's episode, dad? You...

We're gonna do the old dinner party guest. Who would you like to have for dinner and why?

Yeah. So, mine is Bennelong.

Oh, cool. Yeah, that's a follow up. We did Arthur Phillip last time...

Exactly. Well, and it's not a piecemeal kind of thing, like I was thinking, you know, oh, should I do an indigenous person? People will think I'm just sort of like, you know, throwing them a bone and trying to be inclusive or whatever. And it's like, no, I thought of Bennelong because, so effectively he was one of the first indigenous people to learn English, the first indigenous people in Australia to learn English.

I think the story and correct me if I go wrong. But Arthur Phillip and everyone colonised in about, whatever it was, 1788.

Yep.

They went to Sydney Cove in Port Jackson, and effectively these guys were the Eora clan or part of the Eora clan, and they're the indigenous people who first came in contact with the first colonists. And to bridge this gap, you know, I think it was King George the third at the time, back in Britain had told Arthur Phillip not to show any sorts of violence or anything towards the indigenous people.

Because it was incredibly important to develop a relationship because they knew that it was going to be, you know, very difficult for them to organise a colony there and survive and have enough food. The last thing they wanted was, you know, hostile...

Have...

...Thousands of hostile people...

...At the same time.

...Coming in and trying to kill everyone. And so, but ironically, right, after Phillip, I think he catches- He captures- What's the name of the guy? There was a different one, a different indigenous person. Colebee, he catches first, I think, and Colebee ends up escaping and bailing for obvious reasons. And so, he then ends up catching Bennelong.

He may have caught him with Colebee, but effectively, Bennelong is the one who stays and ends up learning enough English, so that he can then develop this go between relationships.

He basically decided, this is all right. They feed me, they housed me, they give me clothes, they treat me like a king in comparison with the rest of his people. So, yeah, who knows what his motivation was? But you get that suspicion that Bennelong had decided that, okay, I've got nothing to lose here, you know, I'm being treated well.

Well, and that's it. So, part of wanting to bring him to dinner and have a chat with him would be to understand these interactions through his eyes. What it was that him and his clan and the broader indigenous community were thinking, what did they think of Arthur Phillip and these people coming originally? What- How did that change over time? When did it sort of click that they were like, oh, this is a really...?

Well, that's it. And then, I think that smallpox hit in 1789, right, the year or two after they colonised and wiped out a shitload of the indigenous population. Because obviously the Europeans had this sort of resistance to it in comparison to the indigenous population that were effectively naive, completely to any of these European diseases.

And so, I think a huge amount of their population ends up being exterminated, effectively, unknowingly, I imagine. Because, you know, there was no germ theory back then. But it would have been so interesting to be like, you know, what was life like when you grew up? What did you do? What was Australia like? What were the animals like? What were the- What was the relationships like, the languages around you?

You know, I would love to know those sorts of things. But then also...

It was your sort of day-to-day lifestyle and, yeah, relationships within your small group and then between groups and, you know, cultural things would be great to know from people who had not seen Europeans before...

When I think tragically, I don't know if we do kind of know quite a lot about these people, but superficially. So, we know quite a lot about the Eora because the colonists got their first inside by interacting with them, but it's from the European side. We don't know anything from the indigenous side. And then within a few short years or decades, the Eora are pretty much gone, right.

All of those indigenous people are either pushed out and separated into other areas or they've been- They've lost their language; they've lost their culture because they've effectively become ghettoised or just died. But...

Yeah.

Bennelong is interesting because he and- What was the name of the other guy? His friend Yemmerrawanne are the first indigenous people to go back to England, and they travelled with Arthur Phillip on the Atlantic, back to England in nine- in 1792. So, four years after having been kidnapped, effectively. I think, what they were like handcuffed or tied up somewhere for weeks, being fed and taken care of and then taught English.

Only four years later, he ends up on a boat, you know, on this huge vessel that they would have been like, What the actual fuck? You know...

Exactly.

...This thing in the water? And then suddenly he finds himself on that thing for months, heading to the other side of the planet for the first time, for any indigenous Australian, I would imagine, unless some of them were kidnapped by other Europeans or other groups previously, and it was never documented. But so, he ends up going back to England for almost three years with Yemmerrawanne and potentially meeting the king.

I think, they don't know for sure if he actually met...

Yeah.

...I would imagine he would have.

That was the sort of superficial story that has been passed down is that, oh, he even met the King. But I think that is probably apocryphal. I think it's a nice story to have. It may have happened, but I have yet- I have not seen any documentary evidence that it did.

I think part of the reason they believe that is because once they arrived, he suddenly got all this really expensive clothing, that is the kind of clothing you would have given someone if they were about to go to something very, very special. But yeah, they don't have any firsthand evidence of whether or not he actually met the King, though it is a cool story.

Tragically, whilst they're there, Yemmerrawanne ends up being the first indigenous person to die in Great Britain from a chest infection. And it is funny, I think Bennelong's health deteriorated whilst he was there, too. Probably because, you know, England at the time, especially London, would have been a shithole, right?

Exactly right.

The start of the industrial age, there would have been dead animals and faeces in the street, like lots of sick people, a lot of poverty, a lot of convicts on boats.

Yes.

That would have been the other part that I would have loved to have spoken to him about would be, what? Why on earth did you want to go back? Although I imagine from my point of view, it's kind of like- It's kind of like the movie- What's the movie with Jodie Foster? Is it First Contact or something? Where she is willing to go to the other side of a black hole and see aliens, effectively.

Yeah.

And so, this is this sort of trope that comes up in science- Sci-fi all the time where you have a choice between leaving your home and effectively...

It's a suicide trip.

...Living with the aliens.

Yeah, you're never going to get home again.

But you get to see what's on the other side, and you get to kind of have that curiosity satiated at the price of not being able to tell anyone.

And so, I imagine it must have been like that for him where he would have been taken aback by all of this technology, you know, all of these weird clothes, guns, houses, all this stuff that he would have seen in Sydney and that he would have been told and would have had this feeling of this is just the tip of the iceberg. What the hell?

You keep telling me about what's back home in England and what the rest of the world is like, but I have no real understanding of that. So, I imagine that he would have been obviously a really interesting person, personality-wise and must have been really curious and, you know, just- From- I think it was one contentious book.

Yes.

I think you get to sort of see what his personality was quite like, you know, that he was...

...A risk taker, I would have thought.

Yeah. So, that would have been amazing. There are a few TV shows, I think, where they've kind of done this sort of thing, where they've taken indigenous people from, I think it was Papua New Guinea. And they've taken them out of the bush, effectively, and brought them to the UK...

Right.

...And had them live with, you know, upper-class families and stuff, and then just film what happens. I'm sort of like, what do you guys make of this? And so, I imagine it would have been like that, but even further, you know, it just would have been insane. But yeah, what do you think?

Yeah, I agree with you, I think it would be a really interesting conversation to have with about that, from the- And you've mentioned it both from the, just an understanding of- So, we could get an understanding of what life was like for the indigenous people around that first colonisation, you know, event. What their life was like before it, what they were thinking when it happened and then what, you know, life was like during and after that.

But then also that, you know, going back to England and, you know, what the fuck were you thinking, you know, it's just like, really?

Yeah.

But yeah, I think it's right. It's that risk taking thing. It's just, I have nothing to lose. This is- They've treated me alright for three and a half years or four years, I might as well. You know, why not jump on this ship? I'm sure he'd been on the ship before, anyway, on a ship before. But yeah, it'd be a really interesting sort of window into a part of our history that we just don't have.

Because you're right, and even what is recorded of Bennelong telling people, you never know...

Yeah.

...He's clearly social. He's the centre of attention. He's...

You don't know if he's bullshitting.

...Of the governor. He could be just spilling yarns the whole time about him, his life and everybody else. He could be telling the truth, but you're never going to know, which, you know, which side of the fence it falls on. So, but yeah, it would be interesting. An interesting dinner party guest. Would have been an interesting party guest to put in with Arthur Phillip, as well.

Exactly. And that's what I was thinking, too. Because...

...Unpack their lives.

...Because, I think- Was it the-? I don't know if it was the capture of Bennelong, but he ends up- Arthur Phillip ends up getting speared when he goes...

Yeah, it wasn't that event. But it was another one. Yeah.

Yeah, because he- Does he go to try and reunite with Bennelong at a bay within...

Yeah, I can't remember the...

...Port Jackson? And there's a certain- There's a corroboree or something happening, and one of the indigenous people that he had captured had run off. It may be Colebee; it may have been him. And effectively one of the other indigenous people there sees him and spears him in the shoulder as payback, you know, of like, you know, fuck you, dude. This is what happens when you kidnap one of ours.

And Arthur Phillip has the wherewithal to kind of not retaliate, to tell everyone that that was fair. You know, and so again, it would be amazing to hear about from both sides, Arthur's and Bennelong's, that learning of one another's cultures and to actually have a better understanding of what they thought of one another. Did they have a mutual respect for one another?

Did they actually not like each other's cultures, because you just have no idea, right?

Yeah. And for- I suspect, for probably a few years, the indigenous people were thinking that this is ephemeral, they're not going to stay here. There's a bunch of people, they've just turned up, they'll pack up and go home.

Well, most of them did, right...

Then the next lot came.

The colony stayed.

Yeah. And the next lot came, though, and then, uh oh...

You can imagine...

...And then the next lot.

...Arthur being like, Yeah, no, no, all of us are leaving. But the convicts, the trash that we brought in, they're staying, they're staying. What was the other interesting thing that I wanted to mention here? The other really cool thing about learning about the early stages of colonisation in Australia is just the lack of population, the limited number of characters that are there.

So, one of the interesting things I found when I was reading about Bennelong going back to England, is that he stayed with- What's his name? We just find his first name. Henry Waterhouse. And I talked about Henry Waterhouse in one of the recent modules about Merino sheep, because Henry Waterhouse is the guy who ends up bringing the first merino sheep to Australia from the Cape of Good Hope.

And he is effectively the person who began the modern-day Australian wool and meat industry, as a result of that.

...With merinos. Yeah.

Yeah. And so, Bennelong stayed with him in England because he went back, you know.

Yeah.

So, it is just funny how you see they all knew one another and had connections...

Of course they did. Yeah. Because realistically, Bennelong was not going to be out there, you know, banging elbows and drinking rum with the convicts. He was at the dinner table with the governor and whoever the governor has, and there was-

There's only a couple of dozen sort of, you know, senior military people and wealthy, you know, certainly past the first fleet, wealthy settlers who would come out that would have been sitting around the governor's table. So, he would have been treated like one of the aristocracy.

That would have been really interesting to unpick, too, right? The racial tensions, as well as class differences that existed because I'm sure that the upper-class aristocracy saw themselves as better than the indigenous people. But they also saw them- Or at least, you know, more sophisticated, more educated, more knowing. But they also would have had the same view of the convicts, right, that these people are filth...

Yeah, exactly.

...Effectively criminal trash. But then the convicts would have seen indigenous people who they probably saw as below them, you know, with the governor...

Yeah, having dinner at the governor's table. Yeah.

And then it would be like, what were the day-to-day interactions like? Did you have-? Because again, it's easy to paint people historically as just, you know, all the Europeans were racist pieces of trash. All the convicts were criminal pieces of trash. All the indigenous people hated the invaders. But I'm sure that it was so much more complicated than that, and it would have been just grey, right.

You would have had indigenous people who were good and bad, you would have had convicts who were good and bad, and the same with some of the upper-class aristocracy there, as well. And so, it would be really interesting to see, you know. How did you navigate that? How did you just insert yourself into effectively European life in the colony? And then what was it like kind of getting to know your place?

Because it would be just as foreign for me to get there and live with an indigenous clan or group of people and have to work out how life works in that. And who would have had an easier job, right? Because it is funny that we do have stories of people like Buckley going away and living with indigenous people for three decades, three and a half decades.

And your kind of like- He would be another one to have dinner with.

Yes.

And they'd be like, you know, what the hell was it like? Was it easy? Was it hard? You know, was it stressful? Did you come up against moral and ethical issues, or did you just navigate it smooth sailing? So yeah.

Cool. Good one.

Awesome. Anyway, thanks, guys, and we will see you next time.

See ya.

Peace.

Alrighty, you mob. Thank you so much for listening to or watching this episode of The Goss'. If you would like to watch the video, if you're currently listening to it and not watching it, you can do so on the Aussie English Channel on YouTube. You'll be able to subscribe to that, just search "Aussie English" on YouTube.

And if you're watching this and not listening to it, you can check this episode out also on the Aussie English podcast, which you can find via my free Aussie English podcast application on both Android and iPhone. You can download that for free, or you can find it via any other good podcast app that you've got on your phone. Spotify, podcast from iTunes, Stitcher, whatever it is.

I'm your host, Pete. Thank you so much for joining me. I hope you have a ripper of a day, and I will see you next time. Peace.

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