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AE 1300 - Learn English with a Short Story

Piss-Up at the Pub

Learn Australian English in this expression episode of the Aussie English Podcast.

These episodes aim to teach you common English expressions as well as give you a fair dinkum true-blue dose of Aussie culture, history, and news and current affairs.

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In today's episode...

G’day, sport! Ever wondered what it’s like to sink a few cold ones at a classic Aussie pub?

This episode throws you headfirst into the action with a hilarious story about Mick, an American bloke experiencing his first true blue Aussie pub crawl.

Get ready for a wild ride as Mick navigates a world of “piss-ups,” “schooners,” and “yobbos,” all while trying to avoid a “biffo” and learn the sacred art of “shouting a round.”

Packed with colourful Aussie slang and laugh-out-loud moments, this episode is your guide to surviving (and thriving!) in the Aussie pub scene.

So grab a “brewski” and settle in for a ripper of a yarn – it’s gonna be a pisser!

Don’t forget to download this episode’s FREE worksheet!

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Transcript of AE 1300 - Learn English with a Short Story: Piss-Up at the Pub

G'day you mob, and welcome to Aussie English. I am your host, Pete, and my objective here is to teach you guys the English spoken Down Under. So whether you want to sound like a fair dinkum Aussie or you just want to understand what the flippin' hell we're on about when we're having a yarn, you've come to the right place. So sit back, grab a cuppa and enjoy Aussie English. Let's go.

G'day, mate. Have you ever wondered what kind of slang and expressions Aussies use at the pub, or when drinking a beer or two? In this episode, you're going to learn a whole bunch of slang, advanced expressions and collocations related to drinking culture and pub culture in Australia.

Don't forget to grab the free worksheet for today's episode. You can download it via the link in the description. It has a full transcript of the short story. We will study in depth today a glossary with all of the interesting vocab from the story, and a 20 question quiz at the end. A multiple choice quiz for you to test your comprehension. So go grab that. It's free. Just click it and you can download it. Don't forget you can listen to this episode as a podcast episode. So if you're not able to watch a video but you still want to study, go and check it out on the Aussie English Podcast. It'll be linked below in the description, but you can find it via any good podcast app as well.

Now lastly guys, I want to say thanks for all the kind comments and words of encouragement from the last episode that we did, where we were looking at a Day at the Beach. That was the first time I had done this structure with a story like this, and you guys seem to love it. So I'm so happy to be doing a second episode. And I asked you guys if you had any suggestions for future episodes. And here's one of those comments. I got this from Mr. PK 266. "Great story! How about camping and exploring the outback with a couple of animals and critters. And two, a diving expedition in the Great Barrier Reef."

Now, next week's episode is going to be number one that he suggested here, a camping and exploring episode about the outback, with loads of animals. So that's a little cheeky preview for next week's episode. But without any further ado, let's get into today's episode.

So today's episode is called Piss Up at the pub. And as a little preview, in Australian English slang, we have loads of terms, expressions, vocab related to 'piss' and you will see that in this episode.

Anyway, let's play the story through. After the story I'm going to go through line by line. We'll read it out, we'll practice the vocab, we'll talk about what things mean in each line, and then I'll play the story for you again, so that hopefully the second time you'll understand almost everything, if not everything, that you hear. Okay, so are you ready to rock? Let's go.

Mick pushed open the door of the Rusty Roo. Feeling a mixture of excitement and nerves. It was his first Friday arvo at an Australian pub, and as an American, he wasn't sure what to expect. The place was already chockers, filled with blokes and sheilas all having a proper piss up. Mick had heard about the legendary Australian pub culture, but nothing could have prepared him for what lay ahead.

As his eyes adjusted to the dim lighting, Mick spotted two blokes at the bar, Tommo and Davo, both dressed in high-vis work shirts, clearly having knocked off after a long day. Already a couple of drinks in, they waved him over with big grins plastered on their faces.

"G'day, mate! You're new 'round here, eh?" Tommo greeted, raising his glass. "Let's grab a brewski. It's time to get on the piss!" Mick furrowed his brow, trying to keep up. "On the what?"

Davo chuckled, leaning in close. "Means we'll be drinking tonight, mate. On the piss all night long!" Still unsure of what he'd gotten himself into, Mick nodded, eager to fit in.

Tommo had been quick to take charge, ordering the first round of beers for the group. As they waited, the barmaid, Shazza zipped past them with a full tray of beers, expertly weaving through the crowded pub like it was second nature. She looked completely swamped, barely keeping up with the mountain of orders that just kept coming in.

"Bloody hell. Shaz is flat out like a lizard drinking tonight," Davo remarked, casually leaning against the bar. "The place is going off like a frog in a sock!"

Moments later, their drinks arrived, three pints of cold beer, each glistening under the warm pub lights. Mick grabbed his pint and with a grin raised his glass. "Cheers!"

"Good on ya, mate!" Tommo cheered, clinking glasses with Mick. "Ah! A pint's just what the doctor ordered. None of that schooner or pot stuff tonight. You Yanks love your oversized drinks, anyway, right?"

"Yeah, you could say that." Mick replied. They all took long, satisfying sips, and Mick felt the tension in his shoulders melt away as the beer settled in. It was only when Tommo set his glass down and looked at Mick with a grin that he realised something was coming.

"All right, Mick, you know the rules, right?" Tommo announced with a hearty slap on Mick's back. "It's your shout next!"

Mick blinked, confused yet again. "My what? What do I need to shout?"

Davo burst into laughter. "Not 'shout' as in 'yell'. If it's your shout, it means it's your turn to buy the next round of drinks, mate. No tight arses allowed in this pub."

Mick chuckled nervously, trying to mentally calculate how many rounds he'd be expected to buy before the night was over.

Before he could ask what to order next, the door swung open with a loud bang, and in stomped Big Pete, a massive bloke with a reputation for causing trouble. He was the kind of yobbo everyone knew to avoid after a few drinks.

Big Pete's eyes immediately locked onto a man sitting across the pub- Gazza. With a smug grin, Big Pete made a beeline for him.

"Oi! Gazza!" Big Pete hollered, his voice booming across the room. "You old bludger! Still supporting that useless footie team of yours?"

Gazza glared up at him, clearly unimpressed. "You're full of it, Pete. Don't you start taking the piss out of my team!"

Mick, feeling lost again, turned to Tommo. "Wait, what does taking the piss mean? As in, taking his beer off him?"

Tomo smirked. "No, mate. If someone's taken the piss, they're making fun of you. We Aussies love a bit of piss-taking!"

Before Mick could respond, Davo leaned in with a grin. "And while you lot are watching Big Pete take the piss, I'm off to take a piss." He winked at Mick as he strolled off towards the bathroom.

Mick turned to Tommo with a quizzical look. "So, I gather Davo means he's going to the bathroom?"

Tomo chuckled. "Spot on mate. There's a huge difference between taking a piss and taking the piss."

Mick smiled, shaking his head in disbelief. "You Aussies really love the word piss, don't you?"

"Too right," Tomo replied with a laugh. "After all, it's a pisser of a word!"

Meanwhile, the pub started to buzz as the banter between Gazza and Big Pete heated up. Mick could feel the tension rising, but Tommo and Davo seemed completely unbothered.

"She'll be right," Davo reassured Mick as he returned from the bathroom. "Happens every week."

But the argument suddenly escalated before anyone could stop it, Big Pete lunged at Gaza, swinging a fist at him and knocking over a full tray of beers in the process. A full-on biffo erupted in the pub, with blokes swinging punches left and right.

"Crikey! Pete's as mad as a cut snake tonight!" Davo shouted over the chaos, clearly enjoying the spectacle.

Mick froze, unsure of what to do. He'd never seen anything like this back in the States. Punches were flying, beer was spilling everywhere, and the pub had turned into a battleground.

"Just another Friday night, mate," Tomo yelled over the noise. "Things always get a bit loose after a few rounds!"

As Mick ducked under the bar to avoid the chaos, a pint of beer splashed all over him, drenching his shirt. One bloke in the corner was already blind drunk, stumbling around, completely out of it.

That's when Shazza had had enough. "Oi! Knock it off, everyone!" she shouted. "Rack off, Pete, or you're banned for life! I'm not cleaning up this mess again, ya drongo!"

Shazza marched over her face red with fury, glaring at Big Pete as she added, "Now, piss off!" Realising he was seconds away from being banned from the pub for good,

Big Pete backed down, muttering one last insult as he stormed out. "Oh, you're weak as piss, Gazza!"

The fight fizzled out, and the pub slowly returned to its usual rowdy but slightly calmer state. Tommo slapped Mick on the back, laughing. "Fair dinkum, mate, you handled that well. Didn't run off like a wuss. Nice one!"

Mick, still dripping in beer, chuckled awkwardly. "So, is this a normal Friday night?" Davo smiled back. "Bloody oath, mate! Things always get a bit full-on around here. But it's all good fun, especially when you're on the piss with mates."

As they settled back down at their table, Shazza, seeing Mick soaked and looking out of sorts, took pity on him and brought over another beer. "Don't worry, love, this one's on the house," she said with a kind smile.

Mick grinned, finally starting to understand the rhythm of Australian pub life. He raised his glass with a newfound sense of belonging. "I'm starting to get the hang of this, I think."

The next morning, Mick woke up with a pounding headache and a foggy memory of the night before. He groaned, grabbing his phone and shooting a quick text to Tommo. "I'm feeling awful this morning, mate." He rubbed his sore head.

Tommy replied almost instantly. "Haha! Reckon you'll need the hair of the dog."

"Dog hair? What are you talking about now, Tommo?" Mick asked confused.

"Hair of the dog, mate. A drink in the morning to get rid of the hangover." Tommo replied. "Meet us at the pub later for a recovery drink."

Mick chuckled despite the throbbing in his head. He was still learning the ropes, but after surviving his first piss-up, he knew he was well on his way to becoming one of the locals.

Okay, so hopefully you enjoyed that guys. Hopefully there was loads of new vocab for you to learn. Loads of slang. Um, hopefully it was a fun story as well. Let's dive into the transcript and just go through line by line. So today's story is called Piss Up at the pub. Let's do it.

"Mick pushed open the door of The Rusty Roo, feeling a mixture of excitement and nerves." So, The Rusty Roo. The rusty kangaroo. This is the name of the pub.

"Feeling a mixture of excitement and nerves." Like, 'nerves', as in you're nervous, right? So there's sort of two, I guess. They're contrasting. You're excited, but you're also a bit nervous.

"It was the first Friday arvo at an Australian pub, and as an American he wasn't sure what to expect." So it was 'the first Friday arvo'. 'Arvo' is Australian slang for 'afternoon'.

So, "Friday afternoon at an Australian pub and as an American, he wasn't sure what to expect. The place was already chockers, filled with blokes and sheilas all having a proper piss-up."

So, 'chockers', we learnt this last week and this means 'really full'. You can use it in terms of people, like a place is 'chock full of people'. You can also say 'chock a block' or 'packed'. It's got loads of people, but we can also use it about items, right? Like as we talked about last week, if you've got an esky that's full of drinks, if it's 'chockers full', it's very, very full.

"Filled with blokes and sheilas." So these are two Aussie slang terms for men and women. 'Blokes', men, 'sheilas', women. The only thing to mention here is that you can kind of use 'sheilas' more often as a man, as long as you're not referring to a woman directly. I don't think women would enjoy being called 'sheilas' directly. For some reason, it has a bit of a negative connotation. It probably comes from the past, when, you know there was a bit more sexism in Australian society, and 'blokes' would often talk about women as 'sheilas' and yeah, they didn't like that.

But, you know, sometimes it can be used to sort of add a bit of Australian, Australian-ness, to the way that you speak or a story you're telling or something you're reading.

So, "Filled with blokes and sheilas, all having a proper piss-up." So, 'a proper piss-up' here would be like a proper party or event with lots of alcoholic drinking, right? So, a 'piss-up' is an event. A party where everyone's drinking alcohol. 'A piss-up'.

"Mick had heard about the legendary Australian pub culture, but nothing could have prepared him for what lay ahead." So, 'lay ahead' is like, 'to come'. What's to come? "Nothing could have prepared him for what's to come." Doesn't matter what you told him. Doesn't matter what you showed him. He wasn't going to be prepared for what 'lay ahead'.

"As his eyes adjusted to the dim lighting, Mick spotted two blokes at the bar. Tomo and Davo, both dressed in high-vis work shirts, clearly having knocked off after a long day." So there's quite a bit going on here. 'Two blokes at the bar', two men at the bar. The 'bar' will be the part of the pub where people will be serving drinks behind it, right. That's the 'bar' within a pub.

We can also use 'bar' to mean a place where you can go and buy drinks like an event, an event, a venue that maybe has events. But typically at a pub, the 'bar' is going to be the the table, the bench, the thing behind which all the drinks are and the people that are working there behind that bar.

"Tommo and Davo". So, quite often in Australian English we add /o/ to names to make them nicknames. So 'Tommo' is almost certainly short for 'Tom'. Well, Tom is shorter than Tommo. The name Thomas will be reduced to 'Tommo', and 'Davo' will be short for David or Dave, right, Dave-oh.

So we do this when we're talking about friends and we give them nicknames and it's just a bit of informality. So just be used to the fact that Australians may have nicknames that end in things like E, O and A as sounds, right.

"Both dressed in high-vis work shirts." So these are 'high visibility'. They're usually bright orange, bright yellow, you know, fluorescent colours. They might be reflecting white, you know, have that really reflective stuff on them as well. And they're used by people who work usually as like tradesmen. Uh, they could work with large machinery, all that sort of stuff. It's so that they can obviously be highly visible at work.

So, "Both dressed in high-vis work shirts, clearly having knocked off after a day at work" or "a long day." Sorry, "a long day". "Clearly having knocked off after a long day already. A couple of drinks in, they waved him over with a big grin with big grins plastered on their faces."

So, "already a couple of drinks in". The idea here would be it's a few drinks 'into the night', 'into the evening', 'into the arvo', 'into the piss-up', 'into the party'. So they've been there for a while and there are a few drinks in. They've had a few drinks.

"They waved him over". That's like, 'G'day, mate, come over here, come and sit with us'. You're waving at someone and telling them to come over. You 'wave someone over'.

"With big grins plastered on their faces." "Plastered on their face". 'Plaster' is the stuff that we have on the wall behind here, right? And if you 'plaster something onto something', or 'something is plastered on something', it's like it's squashed or like spread all over that thing. So if you have 'a grin plastered on your face', it's like you have a 'huge grin all over your face'.

"G'day, mate. You're new around here, eh?" So, that's a little way of saying 'Hello. G'day, mate.' That's a common greeting in Australian English. 'G'day, mate'. 'G'day, mate'.

'Mate', we use to be informal, friendly, and we use it to refer to other people, typically men. But you can use it on women too.

"You're new 'round 'ere, eh?" So there's some interesting stuff going on here. "You're new." So, 'you' 'are' 'new'. 'You are new around here'. So we shortened 'around' to just 'round'.

"You're new 'round 'ere" and then "eh" at the end of the sentence can be used by Australians. Typically, sort of, in Queensland, you will hear it everywhere. But I definitely remember when I travelled to Queensland, loads of people did it almost like a tick. That they were always saying /a/ at the end of all sentences. But he's used it here as a way of turning the phrase into a question, right? It's kind of like a tag question. "You're new 'round here, eh?" So it's sort of like, 'are you?'.

"Tommo greeted raising his glass", so he raised his glass up. "Let's grab a brewski. It's time to get on the piss." A 'brewski'. This is an interesting slang term. 'Brew', right? If you 'brew' beer, you make beer. It is the 'brew'. You 'brew' beer at a 'brewery'. It's a very hard word to say. And 'brewski' is just a slang term for, I guess, a beer, a drink, you know, 'You want some brewski?'.

"It's time to get on the piss." If you 'get on the piss' or if you are 'on the piss', you're drinking alcohol. So if you had someone, maybe in your family who's always drunk, you could say, 'Oh, he's always on the piss', 'he's always on the piss'. And remember, 'piss' typically means like urine. If you were to sort of translate it literally. So like, 'wee', 'pee', 'piss', um, but we use it informally for alcoholic drinks in Australia. So you'll hear this all the time. 'Oh, I'm going to get on the piss tonight with some mates.' 'I'm going to go to the shops and buy some piss.' 'Are you guys coming to the piss-up?'.

"Mick furrowed his brow, trying to keep up. On the what?" That's me doing my best American accent. So if someone 'furrows their brow', it's usually this idea, right? That they're sort of looking confused. They're frowning. They're kind of like mhm. So, "He furrowed his brow, trying to keep up", trying to understand what the person was talking about, what he said, right. "On the what?" Or 'on the what' if I use my American accent, 'on the piss', right?

"Davo chuckled, leaning in close."

So he's leaned in. "It means" or "Means we'll be drinking tonight, mate. On the piss all night long." So, 'the whole night we're going to be drinking'.

"Still unsure of what he'd gotten himself into, Mick nodded, eager to fit in." So 'to fit in' is to feel part of the group, right. You want to feel like you're one of everyone in that group. You want to 'fit in'. I guess it's like being a 'fit'. You know, if you put a puzzle piece into a puzzle and it fits, it fits in that spot. And that's the idea of you, I guess, socially here, you want to fit in with everyone else.

Tommo had been. "Tommo had been quick to take charge, ordering the first round of beers for the group." If you 'take charge', you 'take control', right? You're 'in charge'. You're 'in charge of something'. So, "Tommo took charge". He 'took control' of what was going on.

"Ordering the first round of beers for the group." A 'round of beers' is like if you were there with three mates at the pub, getting on the piss, and you want to get 'a round of beers', you 'get a beer for everyone'. So it's sort of like, I guess around the table. If you had like three people sitting at a table, you're 'getting beers for everyone around the table', so you're getting 'a round of beers'. We use that a lot in Australia.

"As they waited, the barmaid Shazza zipped past them with a with a tray full of beers, expertly weaving through the crowded pub like it was second nature." I don't know why I didn't highlight some of this vocab in here. It's really interesting. 'Barmaid'. This is a word for someone, usually a woman who works at a bar, right? They're a 'barmaid'. I guess the male version would be 'barman'. Uh, 'barmaid'. 'Shazza'. 'Shazza' is a common Australian. A common Australian nickname for 'Sharon'. Anyone with 'Shar' at the front of their name? I guess so, 'Shazza'. It'll typically be 'Sharon' though.

Trying to think, are there any other names that start with Shar? Sharon? Cheryl? Dunno. Yeah. Shazza, Shazza is probably just short for Sharon.

"Zipped past them", so she went past really quickly. Like 'zip', "zipped past them with a tray full of beers, expertly weaving her way through the crowded pub like it was second nature." So, if you 'weave your way through something', it's like there are many obstacles and you're going around them, 'weaving yourself around' those obstacles.

And if something is like 'second nature' to you, it's like it's 'natural'. You know, you you've done it your entire life. It's so natural for you to do. You don't even have to think about it. It's 'second nature'. Don't know why we say 'second nature' as opposed to just 'first nature'. I don't know if there's 'third nature'. 'Second nature'.

"She looked completely swamped, barely keeping up with the mountain of orders that just kept coming in." So if you're 'swamped'. "She looked completely swamped." This is the idea that you are very, very busy with a lot of work. So if you went to work, you worked in an office and all of a sudden all this paperwork got piled up on your desk by, you know, all of your colleagues. You're 'getting swamped'.

I guess the idea being that all this stuff is piling up on top of you so we can use it literally. You know, you can get 'swamped with paper' like that, but it can also be figurative where if Shazza has heaps of these orders coming in and she's having to run around and deliver stuff and pour drinks, she can also be figuratively 'swamped' with the amount of work that she has to do.

"Barely keeping up with the mountain of orders that just kept coming in." So 'mountain' here, we're using again figuratively, to talk about how much she's got coming in, how much work she has, how many orders are coming. Is a 'mountain' of these orders right? They're coming in. They just 'kept coming in'.

"Bloody hell. Shaz is flat out like a lizard drinking tonight, Davo remarked, casually leaning against the bar." So, 'casually leaning'.

"The place is going off like a frog in a sock!" So I wanted to include a bunch of these really cool Australian expressions. 'Bloody hell'. This is an exclamation. Shows shock, surprise, that you're surprised. It shows that you're impressed. 'Bloody hell. Wow.' 'Bloody hell. Wooh!' 'Bloody hell.'.

"Shaz". Now 'Shaz' is a shortened version of 'Shazza', right? So her name would probably be Sharon. It gets turned into Shazza, but it can be further shortened to just Shaz.

"Flat out like a lizard drinking." If you're 'flat out'. 'Flat out like a lizard drinking', you're incredibly busy. 'Oh, man. I have been flat out all day'. 'Flat out like a lizard drinking.' You can say either of those. You can shorten it to just 'flat out', or you can say 'flat out like a lizard drinking'.

"Davo remarked casually, leaning against the bar. This place is going off like a frog in a sock." This is a great Australian expression, and it means for something to be very wild, often a party. Um, it could be a person too. 'They could go off like a frog in a sock'. And the idea would be they're a bit crazy. They're wild. You know, if someone got really drunk and was going crazy at an event, you could say, 'Oh, Pete's going off like a frog in a sock'. And I think the idea would be, if you put a frog inside of a sock, it's not going to be happy. It's probably going to lose its shit, right? It's going to it's going to go crazy. It's going to 'go off like a frog in a sock'. It's going to go wild.

"Moments later, their drinks arrived. Three pints of cold beer, each glistening under the warm pub lights." So 'moments later', 'very quickly after', 'very soon after', moments later. "Only a few moments later, their drinks arrived." 'Three pints'. A 'pint' is probably about this size, right? This is my drink that I'm holding up to the camera. I think it's about 500ml. I'm not sure how many fluid ounces that is for you guys in the US, but it's about half a litre, although it's ounces. So it's. What is that? Imperial? It won't be exact, but it's one of the common sizes of drinks. It's the largest size of drink you can order from a bar that is like for a single person.

We tend to have things, at least here in Victoria. Jugs will be like a litre in something that you can then pour out into multiple glasses. You'll have pints, you'll have mids- or no mids isn't us. I know all these words. What have we got? Pots, pints. And then there's also mids and schooners in different places in Australia. Anyway, let's keep going.

"Mick grabbed his pint and with a grin raised his glass. Cheers!" Again, me doing my American accent. "Good on you, mate. Tommo cheered, clinking glasses with Mick." 'Good on you, mate'. Another great Australian expression, meaning 'well done'. 'Good job'. 'Good on you, mate'. 'Oh, good on you. Well done'.

"Ah, a pint is just what the doctor ordered. None of that schooner or pot stuff tonight." I'll finish it because it all makes more sense. "You Yanks love your oversized drinks anyway, right?" So, 'a pint is just what the doctor ordered'. If something is 'just what the doctor ordered', it is 'perfect'. It is exactly what you wanted. 'Oh my God, that was just what the doctor ordered'. That was exactly what I wanted.

And then he says, "None of that schooner or pot stuff tonight." The idea being 'none of those smaller drinks'. I don't want those smaller drinks. I want a big drink, you know? I want a big drink. "None of that schooner or pot stuff tonight". None of that.

"You Yanks". 'Yanks' is short for 'Yankee'. And I think we got this from the either the Second World War or the First World War when Australia was fighting with Americans. It's probably the Second World War, and many of them were known as Yankees. And I think that goes back to the- is this a civil war in the US? You had like the, is it the Union and the Yankees? There was like North versus South, and I think Yankees was were the Southerners. Americans, correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway, Australians will often refer to Americans as Yanks. It's not meant to be like an insult or offensive. It's just a sort of informal, friendly way of saying, you know, American, these Yanks.

Uh, 'oversized drinks' would be really big drinks. So Americans are renowned for having drinks that are always huge. You know, you go to McDonald's and you end up leaving with, like, a gallon of coke. And our large would be like, you know, the size of a pint. So Americans, especially with takeaway and like drinks, coffees, all that sort of stuff, they tend to have like maxed out their sizes. You know, bigger is better.

"You could say that again, Mick replied." You can say that when someone really agrees with you. 'You can say that again'. So if someone says, 'Oh man, that was the best movie I ever saw. What did you think?' And you agree with them? You could say, 'Man, you could say that again.' 'You could say that again'. You know, like, 'I agree with you, it was the best movie that I've ever seen too. You could say that again'.

Um, or maybe, you know, my son farts, you know, and he'd come home. He does that a lot at the moment. Um, he farts and my wife's like, 'Geez, it stinks in here'. And I might say, 'Yeah, you can say that again'. You know, my eyes might be weeping. It's just horrible. Like, 'you could say that again'.

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Let's keep going. "They all took long, satisfying sips." So like, um, a 'long, satisfying sip of their drink'. "And Mick felt the tension in his shoulders just melt away as the beer settled in." So 'melt away' is for it to just disappear. To dissipate. So that tension in his shoulders, you know, he's relaxing as the beer settled in. So I guess as he started feeling the effects of the beer.

"It was only when Tommo set his glass down and looked at Mick with a grin that he realised something was coming. All right, Mick, you know the rules, right? Tommo announced with a hearty slap on Mick's back. It's your shout next!"

So, 'All right. You know the rules, right?' This is like you would know what's meant to be done. You know 'the norms' here. You know 'the cultural norms', what we do here, the rules. And then "It's your shout next". 'Your shout'. It sort of gets explained in the story. If it's your shout, usually with regards to drinks, it's your turn to pay. It's your turn to buy someone a drink.

So in Australian culture you'll go to the pub. If you're there with mates, one person will go up to the bar and buy a round of drinks for everyone, and then the next person will go up and it's their shout, it's their turn. And it's just a way of obviously being friendly, being generous, but also just saving time so that every time you guys want to get a drink, you don't all have to go to the the bar to keep buying drinks for yourselves. One person can do it at a time, and you usually do it until everyone's paid.

You know, um, one of the worst things culturally you could do in Australia is go out with your mates. Everyone else shouts everyone in the group, and then you bail. You leave, before it's your shout because you don't want to fork out money, you know. So that's that's something that some people do. But that is a massive faux pas. Don't do that.

"Mick blinked, confused yet again. My what? What do I need to shout?" 'My what?' So, what do you mean? It's my what? Your shout. It's your shout. It's my what? What do I need to shout? Like, to shout?

"Davo burst into laughter. Not shout as in yell. It's your shout. If it's your shout, it means it's your turn to buy the next round of drinks, mate. No tight arses allowed in this pub." 'Tight arse' is a kind of rude, informal way of saying someone who doesn't want to spend much money. If you're a 'tight ass', you don't like buying expensive things. Whether for other people, whether for yourself. You just don't like parting with money. You don't like spending money.

The idea being that, yeah, I guess you- for whatever reason, we've decided your butthole is very tight. 'Nothing can come out', right. 'Tight ass'. That's a common one in Australia, I love that. 'Oh, man, he's such a tight ass'. 'That guy's a tight ass'.

"Mick chuckled nervously, trying to mentally calculate how many rounds he'd be expected to buy before the night was over." So, 'mentally calculate', to think in his head. How many rounds of beer am I going to have to buy? Oh my God.

"Before he could ask what to order next, the door swung open with a loud bang and in stomped Big Pete, a massive bloke with a reputation for causing trouble." So, if you 'stomp in', the idea here is that you're 'stomping' your feet down on the ground, right? You're, you're 'stamping' your feet on the ground, making a lot of noise.

You 'stomp into a place' and it's usually because you're angry, right? You don't stomp in happily. It's usually you're angry.

'A massive bloke'. A massive 'man', "with a reputation for causing trouble". This would be 'to make problems'. To cause problems somewhere. To cause trouble.

"He was the kind of yobbo everyone knew to avoid after a few drinks." A 'yobbo' is kind of like an uncouth, unpleasant person, you know. Loud. They swear, they're just not friendly, you know? 'Yobbo' right. 'Bit of a yobbo'.

"Everyone knew to avoid after a few drinks." So the idea being being here, that if Pete comes in and he has a few drinks, you better avoid him. Because after a few drinks, after he's had a few drinks, he turns into an unpleasant person.

"Big Pete's eyes immediately locked on to a man sitting across the pub. Gazza." So another one, Gazza will be a nickname for Gary, right? 'Gary'. 'Gazza'. So, his eyes 'locked on'. He saw the man and 'fixed' his his eyes. He was 'staring at'. He was 'glaring at' this person, his eyes 'locked on' to poor old Gazza.

"With a smug grin, big Pete made a beeline for him." So, a 'smug grin'. This would be like your sort of have this, uh, evil kind of look on your face, right? Like, mmm. Or you could be pleased with yourself. Yeah. It's it's. Yeah. You, you sort of be wary of people with a smug grin, right. Or, 'Oh, here it comes'.

And if you 'make a beeline for something or someone', you go 'straight to that thing' without deviating, right? So a bee flies in a straight line towards a flower. You know it's not. It can fly there. It's not impeded by other obstacles. So if you 'make a beeline for something', you it's like you move in the line of a bee straight to that thing.

"Oi! Gazza! Pete hollered, his voice booming across the room." 'Holler' is like, 'yell'. He 'hollered'. And that's something Americans will use quite a lot, 'to holler'. 'Just give me a holler', you know, 'holler'.

"Oi! Gazza! Pete hollered, his voice booming across the room." 'Booming'. He would be like, 'very loud', right? Boom. Like an explosion.

"You old bludger. Still supporting that useless footy team of yours." A 'bludger' is like a lazy person, so he's kind of using it here as an insult, 'You old bludger'. "Still supporting that useless footy team of yours." 'Footy team', a 'football team'. This could be rugby or AFL in Australia.

"Gazza glared up at him, clearly unimpressed." So this would be like 'to look back angrily', 'to glare at someone'.

"You're full of it, Pete. Don't you start taking the piss out of my team." So, if someone's 'full of it', it's like they're 'full of lies'. They say garbage. What they say is not the truth. 'Oh, you're full of it, mate'. So anything you say is just trash, garbage, rubbish. You know.

"You're full of it, Pete. Don't you start taking the piss out of my team." So, if you 'take the piss'. The idea here is you make jokes, you tease, you belittle. Um. So, Big Pete's making fun of Gazza's footy team. He's 'taking the piss out of' the team.

You can do both. So it can be a normal sort of. Well, I guess it's a phrasal verb. 'Take the piss'. But it can be a phrasal verb with a preposition 'out'. You 'take the piss out of someone' or 'out of something' if you want that object after it. But you can also just 'take the piss'.

"Mick, feeling lost, turned to Tommo. Wait, what is taking the piss mean? As in, taking his beer off him?" So here, the idea is that Mick has heard 'take the piss' and having just learnt earlier that 'piss' means 'alcohol', 'beer'. He's thinking, What do you mean take the piss? Why is this guy just said take the piss out of him? Is he going to take his beer away from him? You know what does he mean? Taking the piss?

"Tomo smirked." This is kind of like, similar to smug grin. It's kind of like, you know he's laughing.

"No mate. If someone's taking the piss, they're making fun of you. We Aussies love a bit of piss taking." So the cool thing I've tried to do here is use 'taking the piss' as a verb, a phrase, a verb phrase, right? 'Taking the piss', 'to take the piss'. But then also use it as a noun, 'piss-taking'. So, 'Pete likes partaking in a lot of piss-taking'; this is the noun. 'He likes to take the piss'. And that is the sort of verb phrase that we're using there. So 'piss-taking' is to sort of 'tease people' or 'to tease someone'.

"Before Mick could respond, Davo leaned in with a grin. And while you, and while you lot are watching Big Pete take the piss, I'm off to take a piss. He winked at Mick as he strolled off towards the bathroom." So, 'to take a piss', that would be to go to the toilet to urinate, to wee, to do a pee, to do a piss, to take a piss, to have a piss. You can use all of these number ones. Number ones? Yeah. Number ones. When you go to the toilet.

"Mick turned to Tomo with a quizzical look." So, he's confused. He's you know, What? "So, I gathered Davo means he's going to the bathroom? Tommo chuckled. Spot on mate. There's a huge difference between taking a piss and taking the piss." 'Spot on'. We use this to mean 'exactly right'. You are, you know, 'perfect', 'spot on'. That is it. That is correct. That is exactly right.

"Spot on, mate. There's a huge difference between taking a piss and taking the piss." It's amazing how just changing the article can completely change the meaning, right? 'Taking a piss', going to the toilet to urinate, or taking the piss. Um, joking around, making fun of someone.

"Mick smiled, shaking his head in disbelief." Like, 'Oh man, are you serious?' This is, you know, confusing.

"You Aussies really love the word piss, don't you?" So I'm trying to do my best American accent, but give me a break. Americans are going to be watching this, you know, vomiting.

"Too right! Tommo replied with a laugh. After all, it's a pisser of a word." So, 'too right'. Again, this is similar to 'spot on'. 'Exactly correct'. You know, you're correct. You're right. Too. Right, mate? "Too right, Tommo replied with a laugh. After all, it's a pisser of a word." If something is a 'pisser'. Again, Australian slang for 'incredibly funny'. 'Man, it is an absolute pisser of a word'. It's a word that is very funny. It's a 'pisser'.

"Meanwhile, the pub started to buzz as the banter between Gaza and Big Pete heated up." So 'buzz', if the pub starts 'buzzing', I guess there's a lot of activity, right? Maybe it sounds like a beehive, with all that buzzing going on, because there are so many people here in this case, you know, arguing, fighting. There's a lot of noise going on.

'Banter'. If you have 'banter' between people, it's kind of like, uh, what would you say? Insults going back and forth.

It can be friendly-ish. It can be really nasty banter, is that kind of back and forth conversation type thing between two people. So here, Gazza and Pete are obviously having a heated argument, a heated fight. Things are 'heating up'. They're getting worse, right? They're intensifying.

"Mick could feel the tension rising, but Tommo and Davo seem completely unbothered." So, 'unbothered'. They didn't care. Nothing bothered them. "She'll be right, Davo reassured Mick, as he returned from the bathroom. Happens every week." So, 'she'll be right'. A great Australian expression for ah, 'it'll be okay'. 'Nothing to worry about'. No worries. She'll be right. There's no she. It's just the phrase we use, right? It's the same as 'it'll be alright'. It'll be fine.

"Davo reassured Mick as he returned from the bathroom. Happens every week." Now this is really cool. We've done. I think it's elision again, where we've dropped the pronoun. 'It happens every week', and we do this when using spoken English all the time, when the context is obvious. So he's talking about obviously this fight between Gazza and Big Pete, or a fight at the pub in general. And he's trying to say 'this happens every week', 'that happens every week'. 'It happens every week'. You don't have to include that pronoun or demonstrative pronoun at the start, 'that' or 'this', and you can just say "happens every week", right? 'Happens every week'.

"But the argument suddenly escalated." So it suddenly got worse, right? It suddenly intensified. "Before anyone could stop it, Big Pete lunged at Gazza, swinging a fist at him and knocking over a tray, a full tray of beers in the process." So, 'lunge' is to, like, jump forward at someone. Um, Big Pete's jumped at Gaza swinging a fist, throwing a punch at him and knocking over a full beer. A full beer of trays. A full tray of beers in the process.

So in the process is like while he's trying to do this thing, in the act of doing this thing, whilst this thing happened, he spilt these, um, these beers. Beers of trays, these trays, this 'tray of beer' over. "A full-on biffo erupted in the middle of the pub, with blokes swinging punches left and right." So, 'full-on', 'full-on' is like very intense. So a 'full-on biffo', 'biffo' is Australian slang for a fight. A 'full-on biffo' is an intense fight, like, Whoa! It's full-on, this fight. This biffo is full on.

"Erupted in the middle of the pub", sort of like exploded, suddenly occurred. It erupted. "With blokes", 'men', "swinging punches left and right." 'Left and right'. If 'something happens left and right' or you 'see something left and right', the idea is that it's everywhere. It's on the left, it's on the right, it's all over the place. But the argument. Oh no, we did that bit already. Let's keep going.

"Crikey! Pete's as mad as a cut snake tonight! Davo shouted over the chaos, clearly enjoying the spectacle." 'Crikey', this is something you would have heard Steve Irwin say all the time back in the day. He made it famous, I think, in the US. 'Crikey' is a way of showing shock or surprise, or being impressed. Similar to like 'bloody hell'. 'Wow'. There's a whole bunch of these that we use in Australian English, you know. 'Blimey'.

"Crikey! Pete's as mad as a cut snake tonight." If you're 'as mad as a cut snake', it could be that you're angry, but it could also be that you're crazy. 'He's mad as a cut snake'. The idea being that if you cut a snake in half, it's gonna go berserk, right? It's gonna lose its shit. For good reason. And, um. Yeah, if you're as mad as a cut snake. Another great Aussie expression for 'crazy angry', um, 'off your tree'. You know, there's loads of these ways of- 'having a few roos loose in the top paddock'. We've got heaps of them!

"Dave shouted over the chaos." So the idea being there's chaos everywhere. All this stuff's happening, and he shouts over the top of it so that other people could hear. "Clearly enjoying the spectacle." So the 'spectacle' is this thing that's happening that's worth watching, right? He's a 'spectator'. He's watching the spectacle. He's 'spectating'. Um, yeah. Spectacle.

"Mick froze, unsure of what to do. He'd never seen anything like this back in the States." 'In the States', 'the States'. This is the United States of America, and we shorten this quite often. This isn't just Australian, this is just English in general to the States, you know. 'Where are you from?' 'Oh, the States'. It's just a short version of The United States of America or The United States.

"Punches were flying, beer was spilling everywhere, and the pub had turned into a battleground." So when something's 'flying', the idea is that it's all around in the air, right? So people are flying. Well, punches are 'flying', people are 'throwing punches'. The idea is there's punches happening everywhere. You know, all these people are fighting.

"Beer was spilling everywhere and the pub had turned into a battleground." A 'battleground' is a place where a battle takes place, right? That's the ground on which a battle occurs. "Just another Friday night, mate, Tomo yelled over the noise. Things always get a bit loose after a few rounds!" So, 'things always get a bit loose'. That would be like a little wild, a little crazy, loose, you know, as opposed to, I guess, uptight. Tight, more formal. Formal, informal, sort of like tight and loose. We use that comparison in English. You know, you can be uptight or you can be laid back and loose, if that makes sense.

"After a few rounds", a few rounds of beer, a few rounds of drinks. "As Mick ducked under the bar to avoid the chaos, a pint of beer splashed all over him, drenching his shirt." If you get 'drenched', you get 'very wet'. You get saturated. You get covered in water, right? 'Drenching his shirt' so he had a beer spill on him, splashed all over him, and it drenched his shirt.

"One bloke in the corner was already blind drunk, stumbling around completely out of it." If you're 'blind drunk', you are 'incredibly drunk'. I guess the idea being that you can barely see, you know, you're that wasted, you're that inebriated. You are that, um, intoxicated that you can't see properly. You're 'blind drunk'. "Stumbling around", you know, unable to walk properly, falling over.

"Completely out of it." If you're 'out of it', it's that you're not there like consciously, you know? So like, yeah, if you get drunk and you pass out or you're, you know, you can barely function. You can barely walk, you can barely talk, you are out of it. It's kind of like you're not 100% conscious. You're not 100% there.

"That's when Shazza had had enough." Right, 'to have had enough', to not want any more. Like, that's that's enough. That's going to suffice. No more. She's had enough. "Oi!" Well, Shazza doesn't have a low voice.

"Oi! Knock it off, everyone!" Knock it off! Stop it! Cut it out! Knock it off! "She shouted. Rack off, Pete, or you're banned for life! I'm not cleaning up this mess again, you drongo." 'Rack off'. This is a bit of an outdated slang term that you know older generations may still use.

It was very popular in the 90s and the early 2000 in Australia. And it means go away, piss off. "Rack off, Pete, or you're banned for life." You can't come back here ever. You know, you get a lifetime ban. "I'm not cleaning this mess up again, you drongo." 'Drongo' is like an informal, not to offensive way of calling someone an idiot. Moron. You know, drongo. You idiot. You drongo.

"Shahzza marched over, her face red with fury, glaring at Big Pete as she added, Now, piss off!" Again, I've tried to use piss here in a way that Australians will use this. If you tell someone to 'piss off', you're telling them to 'go away'. It doesn't have anything to do with beer, doesn't have anything to do with urine or going to the toilet. It means 'get out of here', piss off, piss off.

"Realising he was seconds away from being banned from the pub for good, Big Pete backed down." So he's sort of like 'surrendered'. He 'gave up'. He was like, All right, all right. I'm backing down. "Muttering one last insult as he stormed out." If you 'mutter something', it's like you 'say it under your breath'. You say it softly. Like you know he's muttering. "One last insult". So one last offensive thing, "as he stormed out". It's kind of like, is he, he raged. He got angry and stomped again out of the pub. He stormed out.

"You're weak as piss, Gazza!" 'Weak as piss'. So again, using 'piss', if something is 'weak as piss', it is 'very, very weak'. It's not very strong. So we're saying together, you know You're weak as piss, Gazza. You're weak, you're you're a wuss. You're, you know, shitty person. You're weak, you're weak is piss, Gazza. Weak is piss. So you can use it in English, Australian English in particular to just mean very weak. You can use it about people.

You could use it about drinks. So you could get a beer and just be like, This beer is weak as piss, you know, it's almost like, I guess we're liking likening it to urine, having no alcohol in urine. And you could just, you know, although I don't know why you would drink it. You say that, you know, urine is weak as piss because it's piss. There's no alcohol in it. So if a drink doesn't have much alcohol or it's not very strong, you can just say, oh, it's weak as piss weak is piss.

"The fight fizzled out and the pub slowly returned to its usual rowdy but slightly calmer state." If something 'fizzles out', it's sort of like, you know, like it dissipates, disappears. So the fight stopped, 'fizzled out', "and the pub slowly returned to its rowdy but slightly calmer state." So, 'rowdy'. There's a lot of noise going on. There's a lot of talking, all that sort of stuff, you know, it's loud, but it's calmer than it was.

Right. It's a calmer state.

"Tommoslapped Mick on the back, laughing. Fair dinkum mate, you handled that well. Didn't run off like a wuss. Nice one." So, 'fair dinkum, mate'. He's like, you know. Truthfully? Honestly. Fair dinkum, mate. 'Honestly, mate, you handled that well'. You did a good job. You did well in that situation. "You didn't run off like a wuss", 'didn't run off like a wuss'.

We've done that elision thing there again where we've removed the pronoun because it's obvious. You don't have to say 'you' because you're talking to the person. They know you're talking to them. "Didn't run off like a wuss."

A 'wuss' is a coward in Australian English, a 'wuss'. "Nice one", you know. Nice one. Good job. "Mick, still dripping in beer, chuckled awkwardly. Heh. So, is this a normal Friday night?" Is this a normal Friday night? Again, my atrocious American accent. "Davo smiled back. Bloody oath mate. Things always get a bit full on 'round 'ere, around here, but it's all good fun, especially when you're on the piss with mates."

So 'bloody oath'. We use this in Australian English to when you agree with someone. Oh man, it's hot today. Yeah. Bloody oath it is. You know. Bloody oath mate. You're right, it is. You're. You know what you said is true. Bloody oath mate. Bloody oath. "Things always get a bit full on." Things always get a bit intense. "Around here", in this place.

"But it's all good fun", you know, Yeah, don't take it seriously, mate. Um, "Especially when you're on the piss with mates." When you're 'drinking with mates', you guys are 'on the piss together'. You're drinking alcohol together.

"As they settled back down at their tables, Shazza, seeing Mick soaked and looking out of sorts, took pity on him and brought over another beer." So, 'Mick looked soaked'. He was wet from the beer. "Looking out of sorts." So I guess that's sort of like looking a bit sad out of place. Awkward, 'looking out of sorts'.

"Took pity on him", so, felt sorry for him. If you 'take pity' on someone, you 'feel sorry' for them. So she's there looking at him, drenched, and he's just like, Oh, poor dude. I'll give him a free beer.

"And brought over another beer. Don't worry love, this one's on the house, she said with a kind smile." 'Don't worry', you know. 'Not a problem'.

"Love." Now, I wanted to include this because this is how women will often refer to men. Probably women too, in an informal way. It's kind of their equivalent of 'mate', especially in more regional areas. In Australia, if you go into the outback and you go into a shop and there's a woman working there who's selling the stuff that you're buying, whatever it is, she's probably going to call you 'darl' or 'Love'. That would be the stereotype in Australia. She may even call you 'mate', but it's a common one.

Men don't typically use it unless they're talking to women. Women will use it on everyone, if that makes sense.

"Don't worry, love, this one's on the house, she said with a kind smile." If 'something is on the house', the 'house' is kind of like the pub itself. The business, the establishment, the pub. Um, and so if it's 'on the house', it is them who are paying for it. It's free, you know. The establishment is paying for that beer. "Don't worry love, this one's on the house." This one is free.

"Mick grinned, finally starting to understand the rhythm of Australian pub life. He raised his glass with a newfound sense of belonging." So, 'newfound' is like something that you have just found. You have just discovered- he's got this newly discovered sense of belonging. He feels like he 'belongs' in this pub. You know, I'm one of this one of these guys. I'm one of these guys.

"I'm starting to get the hang of this." I think if you 'get the hang of something', you 'start to understand it'. You know, you start to get used to it. You 'get the hang' of things. He's 'getting the hang' of Australian pub culture.

"The next morning, Mick woke up with a pounding headache and and a foggy memory of the night before." So, you know, he's got a really bad headache. His head is pounding. It's going like bang, bang, bang, bang, bang.

And if you've 'got a foggy memory', the idea is that you can't really remember everything clearly, right? Imagine you're inside. Your mind is full of fog, right? Like smoke, clouds. And you can't see your memories very clearly. You've got a clear memory. Would be the opposite, I guess. Or, you know, sharp memory and a 'foggy memory' is to 'not be able to remember things clearly'.

"He groaned, grabbing his phone and shooting a quick text to Tommo." You can 'shoot someone something'. And this is to 'send'. It's a synonym for 'send'. You can 'send someone a text'. 'Text'. You can 'shoot someone a text'. You could 'shoot them an email'. You could 'shoot them a look'. You could 'shoot them a message', right?

"I'm feeling awful this morning, mate." 'I'm feeling awful'. I'm 'feeling horrible' this morning. "He rubbed his sore head. Ohh. Tommo replied almost instantly. Reckon you'll need hair of the dog?" Sorry. "Reckon you'll need the hair of the dog." Reckon you'll need the hair of the dog?"

Again, we haven't said "I reckon you'll need the hair of the dog". He's just dropped that and just said "Reckon you'll need hair of the dog?"

"Dog hair? What are you talking about now, Tommo? Mick asked, confused. The hair of the dog, mate." Gotta get my voices straight. "A drink in the morning to get rid of the hangover."

So 'hair of the dog' is when you are drunk one night. You go home, you wake up hungover. You feel like shit, right? You got a headache, you're hungover, you feel, you know, just under the weather. The- I don't know if it's true or not because I've never really done it, to be honest. But the myth is that you just start drinking alcohol again and you don't feel bad. It sort of clears up the hangover. And we call it 'hair of the dog', 'the hair of the dog'.

I don't know if this is unique to Australia, probably isn't, but that's what it is. 'Hair of the dog' is when you have a drink after a night out drinking, and you're hungover, right.

"Hair of the dog, mate. A drink in the morning to get rid of the hangover." To get rid of something, to, uh. I'm trying to think of a good synonym, to stop that thing from being. Being here to throw it away, to get rid of it. Yeah.

"Tommo replied. Meet us at the pub later for a recovery drink." So the idea here being that he's going to drink some more beer or some other alcoholic drink, I guess you could have an OJ, an orange juice, to recover. It's a recovery drink. "Mick chuckled despite the throbbing in his head", throbbing, like, pounding that doof doof doof.

"He was still learning the ropes, but after surviving his first piss-up, he knew he was well on his way to becoming one of the locals." If you 'learn the ropes', it's like you 'learn the rules'. The way that things work at a job, in a location, to learn the ropes, you know. And 'to feel one of the locals', to feel like one of the locals, to become one of the locals is to start being treated as or feeling like or understanding the people from that place, the locals.

All right. So now let's have a listen to that story one more time through. Keep an eye out, look at the vocab and see how much you understand. Hopefully a lot more this time. Let's do it.

Mick pushed open the door of The Rusty Roo, feeling a mixture of excitement and nerves. It was his first Friday arvo at an Australian pub, and as an American, he wasn't sure what to expect. The place was already chockers filled with blokes and sheilas all having a proper piss-up.

Mick had heard about the legendary Australian pub culture, but nothing could have prepared him for what lay ahead. As his eyes adjusted to the dim lighting, Mick spotted two blokes at the bar, Tommo and Davo, both dressed in high-vis work shirts, clearly having knocked off after a long day already a couple of drinks in.

They waved him over with big grins plastered on their faces. "G'day, mate. You're new around here, eh?" Tommo greeted, raising his glass. "Let's grab a brewski. It's time to get on the piss." Mick furrowed his brow, trying to keep up. "On the what?"

Davo chuckled, leaning in close. "Means we'll be drinking tonight, mate. On the piss all night long." Still unsure of what he'd gotten himself into, Mick nodded, eager to fit in. Tommo had been quick to take charge, ordering the first round of beers for the group.

As they waited, the barmaid, Shazza, zipped past them with a full tray of beers, expertly weaving through the crowded pub like it was second nature. She looked completely swamped, barely keeping up with the mountain of orders that just kept coming in.

"Bloody hell, Shaz is flat out like a lizard drinking tonight," Davo remarked, casually leaning against the bar. "The place is going off like a frog in a sock!" Moments later, their drinks arrived, three pints of cold beer, each glistening under the warm pub lights.

Mick grabbed his pint and with a grin raised his glass. "Cheers!" "Good on you, mate!" Tommo cheered, clinking glasses with Mick. "Ah, a pint's just what the doctor ordered. None of that schooner or pot stuff tonight. You Yanks love your oversized drinks anyway, right?" "Yeah, you could say that," Mick replied. They all took long, satisfying sips, and Mick felt the tension in his shoulders melt away as the beer settled in. It was only when Tommo set his glass down and looked at Mick with a grin that he realised something was coming. "All right, Mick, you know the rules, right?" Tommo announced with a hearty slap on Mick's back.

"It's your shout next!" Mick blinked, confused yet again. "My what? Why do I need a shout?" Davo burst into laughter. "Not shout as in yell. If it's your shout, it means it's your turn to buy the next round of drinks, mate. No tight arses allowed in this pub." Mick chuckled nervously, trying to mentally calculate how many rounds he'd be expected to buy before the night was over.

Before he could ask what to order next, the door swung open with a loud bang and in stomped Big Pete, a massive bloke with a reputation for causing trouble. He was the kind of yobbo everyone knew to avoid after a few drinks.

Big Pete's eyes immediately locked on to a man sitting across the pub- Gazza. With a smug grin, Big Pete made a beeline for him. "Oi! Gazza!" Big Pete hollered, his voice booming across the room. "You old bludger, still supporting that useless footy team of yours?"

Gazza glared up at him, clearly unimpressed. "You're full of it, Pete. Don't you start taking the piss out of my team." Mick, feeling lost again, turned to Tommo. "Wait, what does taking the piss mean? As in taking his beer off him?" Tomo smirked. "No, mate. If someone's taken the piss, they're making fun of you. We Aussies love a bit of piss taking." Before Mick could respond, Davo leaned in with a grin. "And while you lot are watching Big Pete take the piss, I'm off to take a piss." He winked at Mick as he strolled off towards the bathroom.

Mick turned to Tomo with a quizzical look. "So I gather Davo means he's going to the bathroom." Tomo chuckled. "Spot on, mate. There's a huge difference between taking a piss and taking the piss." Mick smiled, shaking his head in disbelief. "You Aussies really love the word 'piss', don't you?" Too right!" Tomo replied with a laugh. "After all, it's a pisser of a word."

Meanwhile, the pub started to buzz as the banter between Gaza and Big Pete heated up. Mick could feel the tension rising, but Tommo and Davo seemed completely unbothered. "She'll be right", Davo reassured Mick as he returned from the bathroom. "Happens every week."

But the argument suddenly escalated. Before anyone could stop it, Big Pete lunged at Gazza, swinging a fist at him and knocking over a full tray of beers in the process. A full-on biffo erupted in the pub, with blokes swinging punches left and right.

"Crikey! Pete's as mad as a cut snake tonight!" Davo shouted over the chaos, clearly enjoying the spectacle. Mick froze, unsure of what to do. He'd never seen anything like this back in the States. Punches were flying, beer was spilling everywhere and the pub had turned into a battleground. "Just another Friday night, mate," Tomo yelled over the noise. "Things always get a bit loose after a few rounds!"

As Mick ducked under the bar to avoid the chaos, a pint of beer splashed all over him, drenching his shirt. One bloke in the corner was already blind drunk, stumbling around completely out of it.

That's when Shazza had had enough. "Oi! Knock it off, everyone!" she shouted. "Rack off, Pete or you're banned for life! I'm not cleaning up this mess again, you drongo!" Shazza marched over her face red with fury, glaring at Big Pete as she added, "Now piss off!"

Realising he was seconds away from being banned from the pub for good, Big Pete backed down, muttering one last insult as he stormed out. "Oh, you're weak as piss, Gazza." The fight fizzled out and the pub slowly returned to its usual rowdy but slightly calmer state.

Tommo slapped Mick on the back laughing. "Fair dinkum, mate, you handled that well. Didn't run off like a wuss. Nice one!" Mick, still dripping in beer, chuckled awkwardly. "So, is this a normal Friday night?" Davo smiled back. "Bloody oath, mate! Things always get a bit full-on around here. But it's all good fun, especially when you're on the piss with mates."

As they settled back down at their table, Shazza, seeing Mick's soaked and looking out of sorts, took pity on him and brought over another beer. "Don't worry love, this one's on the house," she said with a kind smile. Mick grinned, finally starting to understand the rhythm of Australian pub life. He raised his glass with a newfound sense of belonging. "I'm starting to get the hang of this, I think."

The next morning, Mick woke up with a pounding headache and a foggy memory of the night before. He groaned, grabbing his phone and shooting a quick text to Tomo. "I'm feeling awful this morning, mate." He rubbed his sore head. Tommo replied almost instantly. "Reckon you'll need the hair of the dog?"

"Dog hair? What are you talking about now, Tommo?" Mick asked confused. "Hair of the dog, mate. A drink in the morning to get rid of the hangover," Tommo replied. "Meet us at the pub later for a recovery drink." Mick chuckled despite the throbbing in his head, he was still learning the ropes, but after surviving his first piss up, he knew he was well on his way to becoming one of the locals.

All right mate. Don't forget to grab today's worksheet down below. The link is in the description. Remember, you'll get the full transcript of the story. You'll get the vocab glossary, and you'll have the 20 question multiple choice quiz right at the bottom to test your listening comprehension skills. And um, yeah, I hope you enjoy it.

Besides that, don't forget to comment below and let me know what story you would like me to do next. Remember, we're going to do one next week on camping in the bush with loads of different animals and other things going on. So I hope you're back to see that one like and subscribe. All that good stuff. And besides that, I hope you have a ripper of a week and I'll see you next time. Tooroo!

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        AE 1287 – How I Got Fluent in a Language without Leaving Australia https://aussieenglish.com.au/ae-1287-how-i-got-fluent-in-a-language-without-leaving-australia/ https://aussieenglish.com.au/ae-1287-how-i-got-fluent-in-a-language-without-leaving-australia/#respond Thu, 25 Jul 2024 09:00:00 +0000 https://aussieenglish.com.au/?p=215426 AE 1287 How I Got Fluent in a Language without Leaving Australia Learn Australian English in this expression episode of…

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        AE 1287

        How I Got Fluent in a Language without Leaving Australia

        Learn Australian English in this expression episode of the Aussie English Podcast.

        These episodes aim to teach you common English expressions as well as give you a fair dinkum true-blue dose of Aussie culture, history, and news and current affairs.

        In today's episode...

        G’day, you mob! Let me tell you about how I learned Brazilian Portuguese, the ups and the downs, and why I still reckon I suck at it. It all started when I was training jiu-jitsu and got a bit jealous of all the multilingual folks around me. So, I took the plunge with Duolingo for the basics and then dove into grammar books and podcasts. Podcasts were a game-changer, especially when I switched to a 100% Portuguese one called Café Brasil.

        I also became a bit of an Anki addict, using it for vocab practice, and I devoured books and TV shows in Portuguese, even weird stuff like the rural news on YouTube! To really up my game, I talked to my wife (who’s Brazilian) as much as possible and even lived with a bunch of Brazilians for a while. That was full-on immersion!

        Of course, it hasn’t been all smooth sailing. Having kids and a busy life made it tough to keep up the intensity, and my Portuguese definitely suffered. But hey, I can still chat about everyday stuff, and I’m proud of how far I’ve come.

        Now, I’m exploring new tools like ChatGPT to make learning fun and easier. If you’re learning a language, I say give it a go! Remember, it’s all about finding what works for you and keeping at it. Feel free to share your own language learning adventures in the comments below!

        ** Want to wear the kookaburra shirt? **
        Get yours here at https://aussieenglish.com.au/shirt

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        Transcript of AE 1287 - How I Got Fluent in a Language without Leaving Australia

        G'day you mob, how's it going? Welcome to this episode of Aussie English. So today I've got something a little different. I have tried to get back into creating videos on YouTube! And today is one such video. So I thought I would sit down and sort of talk a little bit about my journey learning Portuguese, Brazilian Portuguese, to fluency, and all the resources that I used. Um, how I worked on fluency, improve my reading, all of that sort of stuff.

        So it's a rather long video on YouTube that you can check out. I will include the link in the description so that you can watch this video if you want. There are loads of sight gags, so to try and mix things up and make it more interesting to watch, I've kind of inserted little clips from films. They'll make more sense if you watch the video. Listening, you may sort of get an idea of what's going on. But yeah, they're sight gags, right? They're sort of jokes that you kind of have to see. So you've been warned with regards to those!

        But you should be able to enjoy this episode nonetheless, and I would love for it to be a, an open discussion. If you guys have tips and tricks for how you've learned foreign languages, hopefully Australian English to fluency, be sure to leave them in the comments on the video, or send me a message and we can have a chat about it as well.

        But yeah, let's get into today's video. Or podcast episode rather. Ah ah ah.

        Guys, how's it going? Welcome to this episode of Aussie English. I am your host Pete. Today I thought I would discuss how I learnt Portuguese [speaks Portuguese] and why I still suck. [speaks Portuguese] in Portuguese. Why I still suck at Portuguese.

        Okay, so the journey. Probably about a decade or so ago, I was learning French like crazy. I'd studied French, Chinese, I'd done Japanese and Indonesian as well at, um, primary school and high school. French was my strongest, and it had been like a decade since I had really learned French. Well, anyway, long story short, I started training MMA in Brazilian jiu jitsu, was meeting loads of foreigners in Melbourne and was quite envious of the fact that they spoke so many languages and quite often very well.

        And always felt a bit insecure. It was just like God, I live in such a multicultural city but I only speak English. I don't speak French anymore, I can't communicate well and I really wish I could. So I spent all this time learning French, probably about 2 or 3 years, going at it full on. Got to a really good level and obviously doing jiu jitsu, Brazilian jiu jitsu. I was meeting lots of Brazilians, so I started learning Portuguese as well.

        And that's where this story comes, because Portuguese is now way better than my French. Because partly because I don't really use French anymore. So it's kind of taken a nosedive. But yeah. So today's story is about Portuguese. What I did, what I would do if I went back, you know, what advice I would have for myself. And hopefully you guys can take from this. Take what's useful, discard what isn't, and make the rest uniquely your own. Is that the Bruce Lee quote? Anyway.

        Okay, so when I first started learning Portuguese, I started with Duolingo at the time. [Ooh, brother. Ooh! What's that?] This was probably 2015? Maybe? Maybe about that? So at the time Duolingo was pretty good in terms of its use. It was a good kind of introductory avenue to the language, to the basics of the language, to learn the 2000 most common words.

        The main problem with it now is that it's so commercialised that, you know, it has algorithm built into it, and the whole purpose of Duolingo is to make money now. At the time, it was free and you could do a lot of stuff. I think they made their money at the time from translating. You know, people would upload documents and students on there could translate them between two different languages. And I think that was the business model at the time. Now they're selling, you know, a subscription to Duolingo Plus or whatever it is. And so their motivations have shifted from just being the best language learning platform for beginners, to now needing people to stay on there for as much as possible, to either buy a subscription or watch as many ads as possible.

        And so when I went back to try and use Duolingo a while back, checking out Chinese or something, it It was so slow, like it took so long to learn anything, and it seemed like you were just going over the same five words from a single lesson. And so I feel like it has totally changed and is now all about keeping you on there for as long as possible, watching ads or buying a subscription, and not necessarily about introducing you to the basics of a language as quickly and as effectively as possible.

        So at the time, I used Duolingo. I think I smashed through the tree in a matter of weeks. I think it may have been like a month or so. I did the entire Brazilian Portuguese tree. And I just kept reviewing things, right. I was just trying to get a basic idea of how the grammar worked, the vocab.

        And Duolingo, at the time, I felt was really good for pronunciation. Because you've got lots of little short phrases and words, and you could hear them being said often by native speakers, and you would have time to repeat out loud. So I was very speaking focussed from the beginning, and I felt like that helped develop my Portuguese.

        But yes, now would I suggest it? No. I would suggest finding other materials. Duolingo is probably a massive waste of your time. If your goal is to rapidly expose yourself to the basics of a language, both vocabulary and and grammar. I guess as well as, um, pronunciation. So there's that.

        Number two. So what did I do after that? After I had smashed out Duolingo and gotten the basic idea for it. I've sort of jumbled these up, but I'll go through them. I started looking at basic Portuguese grammar books. I can't remember the exact brand. I'll chuck it up on screen.

        One of those things that I noticed quickly, using this grammar book, was that there were quite stark differences between the languages and the grammar that was used. The weird thing that I encountered is that, at least from my experience, it seems like Portuguese Portuguese, they follow the rules a lot more stringently, and use a lot of the more formal pronouns and conjugations.

        Whereas Brazilian Portuguese seems to just constantly be deleting these rules. Or not, not actually applying these grammatical rules. [Fuck the rules! Don't worry about it.] So getting my head around that was really confusing. Because there seemed to be like no materials for learning Portuguese grammar online compared to when I was learning, say, French. Or when I looked at Spanish and Italian, those three seem to have so many resources.

        Whereas Portuguese, it was just a vacuum of useful material. To try and master the grammar, you would have to get online and search specific grammar points and try and emphasise the fact that it was Brazilian Portuguese, and not Portuguese Portuguese.

        And like, one of these examples, I remember with my wife, we got together before I was very fluent in Portuguese, and she's from Brazil. And I remember using the word 'rapariga', which means 'girl' in Portuguese Portuguese, in front of her. I can't remember if I was using it to refer to her or not.

        And she just looked at me, horrified. And I was just like, What? I was just trying to say, like, you know, Whatever, 'girl'. And she said, in Brazilian Portuguese, 'rapariga' means 'whore'. [Whoops!] You know, 'slut'. You can't use it the same way. And I just remember being like, Why? Why?

        So there were all these stark differences between the two languages, which made it kind of a nightmare at the time to try and and and learn from traditional grammar resources. So what would I do now? I would probably rely heavily on ChatGPT, whilst also looking at resources online that focus solely on Brazilian Portuguese. There must be so many better ones out there now.

        Now, paired with this, the grammar books, pretty quickly I found some podcasts that were really helpful. And the first one I used was Brazilian PodClass and this was useful for me coming out of Duolingo and learning the basics of the language. Because it was bilingual.

        So it would have Portuguese first, and then they would translate literally every single line into English. This podcast aims at teaching Brazilian Portuguese. [Portuguese voice over].

        As I said, this was really helpful and the good thing was these episodes were structured around themes. So they would have like a dialogue at the start that they would then translate. They would go through the vocab in the dialogue, which might be related to, say, the airport. And they might talk a bit about pronunciation and grammar as well.

        And so I think I went through maybe 3 or 400 of these episodes in a handful of months, and it was just so good for, again, taking that next step and getting used to Brazilian Portuguese pronunciation, grammar and vocabulary and, you know, learning the difference between how plurals are formed depending on the word endings and all those sorts of things, you know. They have different pronunciations for like alveolar, aviary changes from singular to plural.

        So this was a brilliant podcast. The thing I found difficult was that pretty quickly, after a handful of months, although I still felt like I had a lot of grammar and everything to learn, I felt like it was holding me back because there was just so much English in this podcast.

        [You've been holding me back this whole time!] It had gotten to the point where that podcast would have been so much more useful if it had that initial stage of, say, being in a bilingual setting and then quickly transitioned into just being Brazilian Portuguese, because then you would just be doubling your efforts. You would have 100% immersion in the language every time you listen to an episode, instead of 50% in English, 50% in Portuguese, which kept sort of jarring you whilst listening.

        So that led me to try and find another podcast at the time. And again, I haven't looked recently. There's probably so many more, so apologies for that. If you've got some suggestions, let me know below.

        But I found one called Café du Brazil. I think it was Cafe du Brazil, right? Brazilian cafe or cafe from Brazil. Now this was brilliant! Because it was like a radio show that they turned into a podcast episode. And they had two hosts on there that would chat. It was 100% in Portuguese [Portuguese language] Cafe Brasil, also Luciano Perez [Portuguese language].

        They would give you a transcript. And they even had access to Brazilian music. So they would have this really cool structure of having someone ask them a question, like a call up show on a radio, you know, people from Russia or people from America or people from Vietnam. You know, people from all over the world learning Portuguese were asking them questions.

        But also there would be Brazilians ringing them up and asking them stuff about Brazil, like, Why do we do this? Why is this a thing? Why do we say this? And then they would go into usually I think, a song. And they would play a section of it and talk about the vocab from that song, which was just really cool. This was brilliant. It was hard going at first in terms of adjusting from Brazilian podcasts and a bilingual podcast to one that is effectively two native speakers talking. [This is not fun for me.].

        I didn't even know if they spoke English. They may have just been Brazilian speakers and so they weren't dumbing things down. They weren't speaking slowly, they were just chatting away. And it was hard going at first, but the transcripts were the lifesaver for me. And I got so much out of studying, one episode at a time, printing out the transcript, taking notes, and just repeating again and again and again, really trying to squeeze as much juice out of that lemon. [Squeeze the lemon.] That was every single episode.

        And I feel- we can probably talk about this a bit later, but I feel a lot of people skip that stage or move on from that stage too quickly. That stage of intentional study, using a resource and just being as repetitive as possible, to the point that you squeeze as much lemon out of that, as much lemon, as much juice out of that lemon, as much lemon out of that juice as you can. [I have to squeeze the lemon. Oh, you heard me.] So that you, you're just doing insane reps. You're getting exposed to loads and loads of content, and you're probably acquiring all of these things you're not even conscious of acquiring, whilst also studying things that you are. You're finding difficult aspects of grammar, new vocab, expressions, all that sort of stuff.

        So that was what I did with podcasts. What would I do differently today, or would I do the same thing? I think I would probably do a similar sort of thing. I think I would probably have spent less time with podcasts, with Brazilian podcasts as a podcast, and tried to move on to 100% Portuguese as soon as as possible, and really dive into those materials to try and just get used to hearing the language 100% of the time, and just immersing yourself and using that, that process of repetition. Lots of immersion, lots of content, lots of exposure leading to acquisition of grammar, vocab, expressions, just trusting that process. [Trust the process.].

        Because I didn't so much focus on just mass immersion at the time and trying to just sort of passively expose myself to content, trusting that I would eventually pick things up and be able to use them. I was much more focussed on 'I need to learn every single new piece of vocab' aspect of grammar before I can move on, and I don't know how helpful it was being hyper focussed on it to that degree.

        I think there's probably a happy medium. You need to obviously do the work, do the repetitions and really focus on getting as much as possible out of a specific item thing that you're studying, right? Tv show, podcast episode, page of a book, whatever it is. But you can also fixate a little too much and think you're never going to be ready to move on, if that makes sense. [You gotta relax a little bit and just take it easy.].

        So this leads me to talk about Anki or Anki. Now I was using this, this is an SRS spaced repetition system right. Effectively a program you use on your computer or your phone. You create flashcards for yourself using the vocab that you would be trying to learn. And you would review those cards on a daily basis, typically. [That's a lie and you know it.].

        And it would really help with learning vocab quickly. Now, diving back in after years of not using Anki and sort of learning about what a lot of the polyglots are saying online, and also what a lot of the academics are talking about with it. And it may not be the most effective way to learn a language these days. Or at least, you know, for most people it may not be the most effective use of your time.

        It really depends, I think, on what you enjoy and if your memory works that way, and also the process that you're going through. [Well, I'm convinced!] We can probably talk about this a little bit. A big issue with Anki, and I think why it gets a bad rap, is that people either use it for or think that it's used for just learning single words at a time or expressions by themselves. So effectively pieces of language out of context, and it's just trying to mass memorise those things individually. [Not a great plan.] And I think I agree with people when they say that's useless, or at least not very effective.

        When it came to me learning with Anki. I was using the sort of 'mass sentence mining' kind of approach where I would be using websites like Reverso, Tatoeba, as well as dictionaries online, I think, what have we got, dictionary online de portugues or what's the other one? Pribram. But I would be looking for sentences using the words, the pieces of grammar, the expressions, the slang terms that I was trying to learn. And I would be mining those. I would be taking those off the internet and then using those sentences in Anki and on the front of each card, I would have the piece of grammar, vocab, whatever it is removed from that sentence. And on the back side, I would have the entire sentence with that piece of vocab or grammar or whatever it was so that I could test myself.

        Beyond this, I would also try and have conversations with myself. As I was reviewing the cards, I would be saying the phrases out loud. I would be using them as a way of talking about topics. You know, if I was learning the word for, say, dog, I would have a phrase that would be like, Yesterday I went to the park and I saw five dogs, and then I would use that when I was studying that card to try and cause myself get myself to say a phrase spontaneously using parts that were in that sentence.

        It could be transcribing that sentence and using the same grammatical structures, but changing the nouns or the adverbs or whatever in it. It could be that I might try and pretend like I'm having a conversation with myself, you know, say 'I went to the park yesterday and saw five dogs'. 'What colour were the dogs?' So 'I saw a brown one'. 'I saw a green one'. 'I saw a blue one', you know, that sort of thing. And then I would move on.

        So I was really aware at the time, at least, of the pitfalls of Anki being that you can just get good at memorising the material in there for the sake of getting good at using Anki. But I kept thinking consciously, how do I actually use Anki to memorise content that I can use in the real world? Because I don't want to just get good at being able to review cards. I want to get good at being able to use the stuff that I'm learning, remember it and use it actively.

        Would I do that now? I don't think I would spend anywhere near as much time with Anki as I did in the past, because there were times where I was reviewing, say, 200 cards a day. It would take two hours, and it was a lot. And a huge problem with it is that it's hard to maintain your discipline and motivation if you fall off the wagon. If you miss a day all of a sudden instead of having 200 cards, you've got 400 cards, and pretty quickly it gets to the point of being like, [Fuck this dude, I'm out!] I've missed a week and I have a thousand cards to review. It's going to take all day. I'm just tapping out. So there's that kind of pitfall with it.

        The other thing is that you would probably get the same sorts of results if you just kept reading. If you kept watching TV shows with subtitles, without subtitles, repeating scenes, dialogues and just getting loads and loads of immersion. So I'm still sort of on the fence. I think there's probably a place for Anki if you enjoy it. [Fucking sadist. Fucking sadist!].

        The other thing to mention with Anki that I found really helpful, and I think helped me a lot, was the process of making the cards was probably 80% of remembering the vocab. Because you're thinking about it for like five minutes whilst you're searching for sentences, you're looking for photos that are related to the sentence or the word or the vocab. You're then putting them in and you're thinking, how do I make a good flashcard that's going to test my memory?

        And you're also obviously seeing all these other words and phrases and pieces of grammar that are associated with that word as you look up sentences. So funnily enough, I think reviewing the cards was probably 20% of the use of Anki for me and the 80% that I found really useful was just getting together a list of stuff that I wanted to put into Anki from, say, reading podcast transcript, watching a TV show, whatever it was, and then all the thinking and planning I had to do to create those cards, that was probably pretty helpful.

        But again, if you think about it, it's kind of a weird use of your time. It's not necessarily as enjoyable as, say, you know, reading a chapter of a book multiple times and just using a dictionary to look up all of the new vocab and then moving on. You'll have to tell me what you guys think.

        [I'm gonna go read a book with pictures.] But that was my experience with Anki. I do recommend it to some of my students, but it just depends on what kind of learners they are, what they enjoy, and how kind of fixated they are on learning new vocab quickly and memorising it because it is, it is definitely powerful at allowing you to remember stuff. I used to have the craziest words on the tip of my tongue whilst I was always reviewing stuff.

        All right, so next, books. Was I reading a lot of books? Now you can find books that are I think are helpful and not helpful when you're sort of an intermediate learner. What I did at the time was I quite often searched for books that I was already interested in learning, or learning, reading, consuming in my native language. So quite often they were books that had been written in English. But I would look for the Portuguese version.

        So things like, you know, the Harry Potter series, Game of Thrones, uh, Lord of the rings, things that were going to be heavy in dialogue. There was sort of a trade off I would have between inherent motivation and interest and passion. So, you know, there would be plenty of things. At the time I was studying biology and I wanted to learn about things like, you know, human evolution or Neanderthals or whatever it was.

        I would have to think and consider, how motivated am I to learn about this stuff right now? And can I do it in Portuguese? Versus consuming books like Harry Potter where they're really, really dialogue heavy? The side of that that's kind of you have to juggle up is I've already read it before, so I know it, which is good and bad, right? It's not new. So it may not be very interesting in that sense. You're not learning about new parts of the story. But on the other hand, the fact that you've read it before, you'll know the story in the back of your mind. You'll have a basic idea of what's going on, who's saying what in different scenes, depending on how much of a Harry Potter head you are.

        And so there's a kind of use in that, because it's not 100% novel, pun intended. It's not completely unique. It's not completely new. You can follow along because you've already read it in English, and it's also easy to find in English for you to be able to compare, right?

        So I always had that kind of issue juggling up those things. Am I going to consume some content? Am I going to read something that is dialogue heavy, that will help me with acquiring vocab and grammar in common spoken Portuguese that I can go out and use? Or am I going to be using materials that I can't really say? I'm going to take loads of commonly spoken English from? You know, if I'm learning about the evolutionary history of native Australian rats and how to talk about that in Portuguese, I can probably talk about it with people, but there's going to be very few people that care, right? Or are interested.

        They're just going to be like, [What the fuck are you talking about? I don't know!] So I felt like that was really useful, especially too, with common books like Harry Potter. You can find audio books for them. And in fact I found on YouTube, loads of people in Brazil would actually read out the chapters and just upload them to YouTube. [Portuguese language].

        It was a weird phenomenon where for some reason no one took them down and you would be able to find, say, five different people who had literally read every single Harry Potter book, chapter by chapter and uploaded those to YouTube so you could get different accents and different voices reading out the same chapters. So I would quite often go through the different voices of different channels and just study the same chapter again and again and again, so that I could boost my listening comprehension skills with different accents, but also do those repetitions and learn the vocab and everything out of them. So yeah, I think books are immeasurably helpful.

        I would probably suggest trying to find the audio with the book at the same time, because if you compare up those two things of listening and reading at the same time, it's two birds, one stone, you know, you're training your ear at the same time as you are getting better at reading and able to see the words that are being spoken.

        And from what I remember with research, looking at language acquisition and getting better ability at speaking and listening, it's much better to do both of those simultaneously than to do them separately or just do one of them right. Just reading alone or just listening alone.

        Because if you read, you're not working on your ear, and if you're just listening, you're not going to hear 100% of the words that are actually being said. Spoken contractions take place, all that sort of stuff, and you're probably just going to not notice it and keep moving on with the story.

        So I would definitely say whatever you end up reading, it's going to be a plus, but try and find something that has the audio to it as well. You have a transcript and you have the audio and you can do both simultaneously.

        So next: series movies and the news. What did I do with watching TV shows? Netflix was my friend. I found a lot of Brazilian TV shows on there, I think was it like Bom Dia, Veronica and there's, there's like three something. Is it just three's or something like that? I watched a whole bunch of these series a few years back, and they Netflix was brilliant because it had subtitles.

        You could also watch it dubbed so you could flick through just having it in Portuguese, having it in English, and having it with or without Portuguese or English subtitles, playing around with any of those combinations and again, doing that repetition of watching one episode many times to be able to squeeze as much juice out of that lemon as possible was really helpful.

        Another thing that I did to try and really help me with learning different accents and dialects of Brazilian Portuguese in particular, was I would use YouTube and try and find the different news shows that would stream, and quite often there was one that was called, you guys are gonna laugh at me, who are Brazilians. Globo Rural. [Portuguese language] Globo Rural. Effectively, like rural news. It was farmers, right? [Portuguese language] And the reason it was funny is because I remember all these Brazilians would always be like Why are you watching Globo Rural? [Is this- what is wrong with you?] They're talking about like the price of fish and cassava and all this other stuff.

        And I'm like, you don't understand. They go through all the different regions in Brazil, right? There's like 25 different accents in Brazil. They've got a dozen or two states, and there's so much diversity there.

        And Globo Rural was great because they would just be going from state to state and talking about things like, you know, vets treating horses, the harvesting of a soy crop and the prices of soy going up and down. So I was just, I was learning so much. There would be a lot of person on person interactions, a lot of informal language, loads of different accents. But then also they would be talking about things I was interested in, like animals and plants and farming and how to take care of bees and all that sort of stuff. So I found that really, really useful. [You know, they used to call him weirdo in school.].

        So if you haven't done this before, get on YouTube and try and see if you can find a new show that is in your target language from that country. And if you can find one that is like a variety show type thing where they're interviewing a lot of different people and you can get a lot of different voices, different accents and topics in a very short period of time. And you can just keep watching that same episode. It is just really, really useful, really, really useful. [That's the good stuff.].

        So yeah, would I go back and do that? What would I do now? I think I would do much the same. I would probably try and spend more time for longer with specific things I was watching. So like if I was watching a series on Netflix, there is definitely that part of you that is like, God, I want to see what's going to happen next. And you may rush through the season a little too quickly, guilty, and not end up doing your reps. And so you have to be aware of that push and pull, that relationship between intent, active study with materials, and relaxed, passive consumption of materials.

        The first is going to help you boost your language skills very quickly. The latter is not going to help you with that as quickly. It definitely is better than nothing. As I said to my students, you know, what are you watching on Netflix? I watch a lot of stuff in Persian. You know, I'm from Iran, I watch loads of Persian shows, and I'm like, [I'm afraid that's not going to help.] So if you can just switch that and start watching stuff in English, that's that's a bonus.

        But beyond that, if you can get to a point where even if it's just for a short period of time, every single day, you have a specific episode or portion scene from a film that you study intently with, with subtitles, without subtitles, you do repetitions, you take notes, you try and think, what don't I use? That's being said here. Is there new vocab? Is there new grammar? Are there expressions being used? What's happening with the pronunciation? Is their connected speech happening? You could use it as prompts for being able to speak out loud, and try and copy the people who are talking and mimic their accent.

        You know, if you can do that for a short period of time, every single day before you move on to just consuming content passively, I think that is probably the key. If you can do this short, bulky, kind of intense period of study, and when you are getting burnt out with that, that's when you move on to the whole I'm just going to passively consume for the rest of the time. The issue I think loads of my students have is that they move from this area of intently studying something with, you know, a reason behind it to just the passive stuff really quickly. And the problem is you get to a stage where you're like, I can understand and follow along. So my English is pretty good. All I need to do is more of that and I'll get better, and I think you will, but it'll take longer compared to if you pair these two things up. Trying to work smart, not hard.

        So I think that is what I would go back and focus on. I would be trying to make sure that I have my sort of study period that I get in there and really intensely kind of study for a short period of time, 20 minutes, 30 minutes, whatever it is, before moving on to just say, a few hours of consuming something to insert here that I didn't put on this list.

        We have ChatGPT now, and I've been talking about this with my students so much recently when doing English classes, and I'm still astonished at the lack of people using ChatGPT, whether they're doing it for language learning or anything else. It is so useful. It's not perfect, and you have to pay attention to the responses you get, and quite often you have to tailor the responses, change your prompts, ask it to improve something, change something, adjust something.

        But the use is just out of this world. [It's horrifying.] It is so fast at being able to help you with language learning, being able to give you answers. So I'll give you some some stuff and I might save this for a future video. What I would do now with ChatGPT is when I'm watching a series, if I'm having trouble with vocab, I would take the vocab or I would take the subtitles with the vocab. I would copy paste it, I'd have it in a document and then I would open up ChatGPT, free version or not, paste it in there and say, define each of these words or phrases or slang terms, and then give me five sentences using each one and explain the context.

        And you can make this as complicated or as easy as you want. It's up to you. Your imagination is effectively your limit, but you can get on to ChatGPT paste in this stuff and then say, give me a list of sentences using these words and phrases and explain how they're being used or whatever. And you can just read that. That can be your homework.

        You can ask ChatGPT to make you a quiz. You can ask it to give you written worksheets, written questions, fill in the blank questions using the vocab that you've just studied. You can ask it to write in a certain style. Can you write in the way that Mick Dundee speaks in Crocodile Dundee and write me a short story about how he gets lost in the bush and a crocodile nearly bites his leg off? Make it 500 words long at the level of B1, B2.

        And within 20s it'll just spit that out. If it's too complicated, you say, can you make that at the level of A1? Write that story again, but at the level of A1 at the level of A2, if you need it to be more complicated, say, can you write it at the level of C1 or C2? It's just endless. So it's a great resource. Today, if I went back, I would be using the shit out of ChatGPT paired with all these other resources that I was studying.

        And again, you can talk to it, you can ask it questions, you can treat it as a conversation partner. It has like 60 different languages on there. You can talk to it in your native language and have it respond in English or your target language. You can get it to to correct you spontaneously. So like if you're having a conversation with it in English and you make a mistake, you can say, can you correct any mistakes I make? So it's just brilliant. Check it out. I would be using that like crazy.

        Moving on now, conversations with my wife. So pretty quickly I started trying to use the Portuguese with my wife, who was my girlfriend at the time, right? That was a motivating factor as well for me to keep learning Portuguese and wanting to get good. She had a really good level of English. She was obviously a Portuguese speaker from Brazil and I wanted to be able to talk to her in Portuguese. It was almost like a respect thing of you've put all this effort into learning English. I want to be able to speak your native language. As our relationship progressed, it became important because she had family and friends and all these people back home in Brazil that I had never met who didn't speak English. So I wanted to be able to communicate with them instead of having to use her as a translator.

        [Can he drive this if he's drinking as well? You must be under 0.05. Oh, I'll just translate. Yes, you can drive drunk.] So I used to have conversations with her all the time. I would ask her about things. I would ask her about slang, about swear words, about her, her life in Brazil. I would ask her to talk to me in Portuguese.

        Now, the thing that I would talk about here that can become an issue is you shouldn't treat your partner as your teacher. You shouldn't treat a teacher as a teacher. And what do I mean by this?

        No one is going to teach you anything. At the end of the day, no one can teach you a language.

        No one can force you to be able to speak that language without you yourself doing the work. Anyone you're interacting with can talk to you.

        They can answer your questions, but you still have to put in loads of work. You have to do the legwork. You have to do the majority of the hard work. Taking that pressure off my wife and never treating her like, you know, I would show up to chat to her and it was her job to teach me to speak Portuguese. I never had that kind of relationship with my wife or with anyone else who was a Brazilian Portuguese speaker. Even people I got lessons from. It was always I was there to ask questions and to try and communicate with them and have conversations.

        But I took charge of my own learning. That's the main takeaway point here. Don't expect other people to teach you anything really.

        When it comes down to it, people can expose you to content, they can chat to you, they can give you ideas, they can discuss things, but you have to take charge of teaching yourself.

        So that was a big thing that I was always conscious of with my wife. And I also didn't want to put that pressure on her, because I know people who've had that kind of dynamic or relationship in the past. It quite often gets to a point where the spouse, the other, the girlfriend, the boyfriend, whatever is just like, screw this, I don't want to talk any more in Portuguese. This is not fun. I don't enjoy this. [I want to go home now. This isn't fun anymore.] You're just making me feel like I need to be teaching you constantly. So making sure that dynamic is not there and that it's always fun. It's enjoyable.

        So I remember my wife and I, we used to have to drive to and from Canberra. We were living in Canberra at the time and my family lived down here in Melbourne, and it's a seven hour drive and we would just chat away in the car for like seven hours in Portuguese and it was broken Portuguese on my part, but it was a lot of fun and it helped rapidly improve my fluency.

        It's doing that work of just speaking and my wife being like quite often being like, What the hell? [I don't know what he's saying. Do you understand? I don't know what he's saying.] What are you talking about? Do you mean this? Do you mean that? You know, and then just us having a laugh. So making that enjoyable and doing that. When it comes to conversations with people, it just is absolutely brilliant.

        So would I change anything there? I probably would have tried to talk to her even more, to be honest, because the other thing is that you have that bad habit when one of you speaks both languages very well, but the other one speaks only one of those languages really, really well, it's very easy to kind of keep switching back to that language that you both share. That makes ease of communication a lot better. And we did that more than we probably should have, or at least more than I should have. [Whoa, how'd that get in there? Yikes. Whoops. Whoa!] It's something to be aware of, and you have to constantly be fighting that urge to follow the path of least resistance. And that goes for a lot of things, right? That goes for study material as well. You can get to a point where things are too easy and you need to keep pushing yourself.

        You need to keep searching for that barrier of of discomfort right? Between language you don't understand and language that's too easy. You have to search for that sort of frontier and constantly be pushing it forward.

        Next one: moving in with Brazilians. I ended up moving in with a whole bunch of Brazilians in Canberra with my wife. In fact, it was five Brazilians and me in a house. The thing that really helped with that was that quite a few of the Brazilians in the house didn't speak really good English, [Look, I don't have time for that.] So pretty quickly my Portuguese actually crept past their English. And that was because a lot of them worked with other Brazilians. So they were speaking Brazilian Portuguese at home. They would go to work and speak Portuguese, and then they would get home and they would consume Portuguese TV shows, movies, all that sort of stuff. [This is not helpful.].

        Whereas I was obviously in Portuguese for a greater proportion of the time comparatively. And that really helped, especially when we got to that point of my Portuguese being better than their English. I would often take advantage of the situation of that path of least resistance, because they may want to try and speak a bit of English with me, but as soon as they would get to a point where they're like, Oh, you know, I can't speak as quickly and as effortlessly as I want, they would switch to Portuguese and put me in that position of not being able to understand or speak as easily.

        [Sucks to be you, nerd!] And so I kind of pretty quickly just decided, Fuck it, you know, I'm going to just accept this, I'm going to take it. And it really helped really quickly. It was a sink or swim kind of immersion that I created for myself in Canberra. [Help me! I can't swim! I'm drowning!] And I guess my advice for you guys and my students would be if you're in that kind of a position of living in a sharehouse or needing to rent a room in a house when you come to Australia, or if you're living in Australia, for the love of God, try and do what I did.

        Where you move in with other people who don't speak your native language, or at least don't speak it as well as you do, if that makes sense. The number of students that I had in the past that would tell me things like, I'm Colombian, I came over from Colombia. I've been here for three years, but I still don't speak English. And I would probe a little bit and it would turn out they're living with Colombians. They got a job with their Colombian friends. They only watch Spanish TV. And I would just be like, [Oh, fuck me, man!] No shit, Sherlock.

        Like, you've done everything that you can do to pretty much avoid learning English. So if you're moving here and you want to live with people, try and move into either a house with loads of other foreigners from other places where the shared language is English, or try and find Australians ideally if if your goal is to learn and speak Australian English as well as possible, that's the key, right? Moving with other Australians, they're unlikely to speak your language. And if there's multiple, they're going to be speaking Australian English all the time, which is, you know, great for you.

        So yeah. Would I do that again? Would I move in with Brazilians? Hell yeah. And I would probably try and live with them for longer. I think we only ended up living there for 3 or 4 months. But that and speaking with my wife as much as I could every single day for several months, it really boosted me from that kind of beginner level of being able to put together the odd phrase and have a basic idea of what someone was saying to intermediate and intermediate advanced, where I could now express myself a lot better and talk about a lot of different topics. And yeah, it was uncomfortable initially, but it paid off in the long run.

        So why does my Portuguese still suck? I've got two kids now that I've had with my beautiful wife.

        My son is five, my daughter is three. When we first had my son, we were speaking Portuguese at home probably 90% of the time, and it was absolutely brilliant. It was great for my Portuguese. We were talking all the time.

        The issue came when my son started going to Day-care and there's a certain threshold, I think, that we passed with how many days he started going to Day-care. I think he started going three days a week. As soon as he was able to speak English at about 3 or 4, he started realising around him. Everyone else spoke English, so any single person he would interact with would speak usually just English, but may speak Portuguese and English as well. But that common factor of every single person that he interacted with definitely spoke English. He worked out pretty quickly. He didn't have to speak Portuguese. [Why are we doing this again?] He could just speak English to everyone and no matter what, they would always understand what he was saying.

        And so now, more recently, they've been at Day-care ever since because we, my wife and I both have to work. We got to a point where they were at day-care four days a week, and the thing that was beautiful with my son was that he ended up making the best little mob, a little group of friends at Day-care, but they were all obviously English speakers. And so every day he goes to Day-care or like four days a week and he interacts with 20 other children, all of whom only speak English, or they may speak other foreign languages at home.

        But the common denominator of just speaking English at Day-care was there. All of the teachers were English speakers, so he was just surrounded by all the time. He was also spending a lot of time with his grandparents, with his uncle and auntie. Again, they only speak English.

        And so our issue was that the kids would always be speaking in English back to us. Even if we were speaking in Portuguese with them, they would understand it, but they would just reply in English and it became an exhausting battle to try and get them to speak in Portuguese. [I only speak English, I'm sorry.] And my wife, who works in reception and admin, is using English all day, every day. But when she gets home, she's in English mode and she doesn't often switch now to to Portuguese.

        So we've unfortunately ended up in this situation where we probably use Portuguese at home maybe 50% of the time, if we're lucky, but most of the time it's English and you get into that phase two of because the kids are always asking and speaking in English, even if you try and speak Portuguese to them, they sort of snap you out of it constantly because it requires more cognitive effort to keep replying in another language to someone who's speaking to you in English, than it does to just use the words that they're asking or saying to you and reply back, if that makes sense.

        So unfortunately, I would say, you know, do you have bilingual kids? I would say they understand. They can definitely understand Portuguese, [But I don't speak it.] But they can't string a complicated sentence together because it's just not something they've practised. I think we could have gotten around that if my wife hadn't gone back to work, and if we didn't send them to Day-care, I think there would be a lot better. And ironically, that tends to be the pattern I've seen with other families around us that are Brazilian.

        Typically, the only children I've interacted with now who speak Brazilian Portuguese and English really well have two parents who are Brazilians who only speak Portuguese at home, and they don't send the kids to Day-care very often. So that balance, I guess, of Portuguese and English, is much closer to 50/50 than in our case, where it's probably more like 9010 or 9020.

        So that's been a real kind of eye opener. It's been difficult because I kind of wanted the whole time for my kids to be able to be good at both languages, primarily so that they could chat to family, but it hasn't ended up that way. I think they'll understand them, and hopefully it's there and we can sort of reignite it in the future if they're interested.

        But yeah, for now, it's definitely a frustrating thing of them speaking and understanding a lot more English than Portuguese and to my Portuguese has stagnated. That's where we probably need to focus the end of this video I have just been overwhelmed with work, with family life and everything, that it's become really difficult to find time or to make time to study and do what I need to do to keep pushing my Portuguese, to keep improving it.

        So one thing I have noticed is that my pronunciation hasn't changed. My fluency has probably diminished a little bit since I was really focussed on speaking at all the time, but I can still talk a lot about everyday things, and that's the kind of gift and a curse thing I can talk a lot about doing the clothes, doing the dishes, cooking dinner, changing nappies, family events, all that sort of stuff because it's what we're always talking about.

        But if someone comes over who's from Brazil and they say, you know, [what's your opinion of modern art?] I would be like, I just don't have the vocab to be able to express my ideas clearly and quickly and concisely in Portuguese, because it's not something I do very often. So yeah, that's why my Portuguese still sucks a great deal. And the most frustrating part that I have to share with you guys, because I have like an area of fluency that is still very good.

        The annoying thing is that it falls a lot of Brazilians, and they'll think that I have the ability to speak a lot better than I can. [No, trust me, I'm stupid.] And so that is a gift and a curse. It's infuriating. You know, when they come over and they're like, [Portuguese language] you know, blah, blah, blah, how are you? Is your family all good? And you're like, yeah, me and my blah blah blah. My mom's this, that. And then they'll they'll switch the topic and you'll be like, [I'm sorry, I just can't do it.].

        You just took me from advanced to beginner and we're gonna have to switch to English, so. Yeah. Ah. All right, wrapping up, the future. I think you kind of have to decide what you want and what you're comfortable with. I am pretty proud of where my Portuguese got to and where it is today. [Still sucks.] And all things being equal, I'm still glad that I have Portuguese. That's good enough to communicate with people. So I could go to Brazil tomorrow. I could find my way around. I could chat with people. I could get to know people. I could probably make friends pretty well. [Oh! Como estas?] I probably couldn't get a job. I don't think I would be confident enough with my Portuguese to get a decent job, say 100% in Portuguese, but I'd get by.

        And so, you know, there's that side of it. And I have to keep thinking. I have to trade off. How much do I want to spend? How much time, energy, and effort do I want to spend getting my Portuguese to say, a C1 or C2 level, or being able to talk about loads and loads and loads of topics when at the moment my main focus is my family, my kids, my work. That's what matters the most at the moment.

        Yeah, I think Portuguese is always going to be there. I can reignite it in the future and at the moment I just use it for day to day stuff and, you know, the odd bit of TV shows, movies and that sort of stuff to passively learn. And I don't want to feel guilty about it, but I do at times wish it was a lot better than it was, right.

        But the thing is, it's not it's not free. Like having a good body from going to the gym. It's something you have to maintain and keep working on if you want to keep it. Anyway, it's turned into a massive episode. I hope you enjoy it. I would love to know your experiences and if you have any questions or anything else, chuck them down below in the comment section. I'm Pete, this is Aussie English. Thanks for joining me. Tooroo!

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              The post AE 1287 – How I Got Fluent in a Language without Leaving Australia appeared first on Aussie English.

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              AE 1167 – 5 Expressions To Sound Fluent in English | Part 10 https://aussieenglish.com.au/ae-1167-5-expressions-to-sound-fluent-in-english-part-10/ https://aussieenglish.com.au/ae-1167-5-expressions-to-sound-fluent-in-english-part-10/#respond Sun, 04 Sep 2022 09:00:00 +0000 https://aussieenglish.com.au/?p=188143 AE 1167 5 Expressions To Sound Fluent in English | Part 10 Learn Australian English in this expression episode of…

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              AE 1167

              5 Expressions To Sound Fluent in English | Part 10

              Learn Australian English in this expression episode of the Aussie English Podcast.

              These episodes aim to teach you common English expressions as well as give you a fair dinkum true-blue dose of Aussie culture, history, and news and current affairs.

              ae 1167,pete smissen,aussie english,australian english,aussie english podcast,australian podcast,learn english australia,learn australian english,learn english expressions,english expressions meaning examples,rock the boat meaning,get wind of something meaning,have a knack for meaning,over my dead body meaning,pull your own weight meaning,english idioms collection,english common idioms example,how to be fluent in english,advance english lesson

              In today's episode...

              Happy weekend, mate! Welcome back to the Aussie English podcast!

              It feels great to have recorded this video for you, guys! So for today’s lesson, here are 5 expressions to help you sound fluent when speaking in English.

              We start off by giving you the meaning of these expressions:

              Expression: Get Wind of Something
              Expression: Have a Knack for Something
              Expression: Over My Dead Body
              Expression: Pull Your Own Weight
              Expression: Rock the Boat

              I will also give example situations where you can use these expressions so you’ll know when & where to use these phrases.

              Finally, don’t miss doing this Spoken Contractions exercise with me – learning this will take your fluency level to advanced, instantly!

              👉 Don’t forget to download your PDF Worksheet for this lesson: https://aussieenglish.com.au/AE1167_Worksheet

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              Get yours here at https://aussieenglish.com.au/shirt

              Improve your listening skills today – listen, play, & pause this episode – and start speaking like a native English speaker!

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              Transcript of AE 1167 - 5 Expressions To Sound Fluent in English | Part 10

              Hey, I spoke to Jeff on the phone this weekend. I don't think he got wind of his surprise party.

              Get wind? How do you mean, get wind? What, do you like, catch it and put it in a jar?

              No, silly. I mean, he didn't learn about the party. He didn't hear about it. He didn't get wind of it.

              Oh, right. Well, why.. Were you worried he'd figure it out?

              Well, sometimes I have a knack for letting these things slip, and yeah, I wouldn't have wanted to rock the boat.

              Rock the boat? Whose boat? Why is it rocking?

              We're going to have to make another expression video, aren't we?

              G'day, you mob! How's it going? Welcome to this episode of Aussie English. Today we're going to be going through five advanced English expressions to make you sound much more like a native speaker when speaking English.

              Now, if it's your first time here, guys, my name is Pete and I am the host of Aussie English, a YouTube channel and podcast designed at helping you sound much more Australian and just level up your English in general. So if your goal is to take your English to the next level, I've been helping people do that for over half a decade now, so this is definitely the place for you.

              Now, before we get started, don't forget to go down into the description today and grab the worksheet that goes with today's lesson. You'll be able to follow along, take notes, read the exercises and everything as we cover them. And I'll also be able to send you all of the future worksheets so you'll never miss another lesson.

              Lastly, each of the expressions that we'll cover today, we've covered more in depth on the Aussie English podcast, so if you want to check them out, you can do so in your own time. All right, let's go.

              Number one: 'to get wind of something'. 'To get wind of something'. This is to learn about something, usually a secret or something that you shouldn't necessarily know about, or to hear a rumour.

              So, for example, the cops got wind of the criminals planning to rob the bank. Somehow, Jeff got wind of his surprise birthday party. I wonder who told him?

              Expression number two: 'to have a knack for something'. Now I have no idea what a 'knack' is. A single knack. Do you have any knacks? But in the expression 'to have a knack for something', this means to have a talent for something, to be gifted at a certain ability or skill or task, 'to have a knack for it'. So, for example, "She has quite a knack for tennis." She's great at tennis, awesome at it. "She has a knack for it." Pete has a knack for getting himself into trouble. It's true. Pete has a knack for getting himself into trouble.

              Expression number three: 'over my dead body'. 'Over my dead body'. It's a bit morbid. We say this in English to emphasise that something will never happen, or that we would never allow it to happen. You're going to have to kill me, and step over my dead body, before that thing is going to happen. So, for example: "Hey, Mr. Smissen, can I marry your daughter?" "Over my dead body, mate!" Over my dead body. "Hey, Dad, can I borrow your Ferrari for the weekend?" "Hah! Over my dead body, son! Over my dead body! You're going to have to kill me first, step over my body, and then you can have the car."

              All right, guys, before we keep going, can you do me a tiny little favour and give that Like button a little boop! It'll boost this video in the algorithm on YouTube, and hopefully show it to more English learners just like you. It really helps out small channels like mine. Thank you.

              Expression number four: 'to pull your own weight'. 'To pull your own weight'. This is to do your fair share when working in a group of people. So, you're 'pulling your own weight'. And I think the idea would be, say, if you were in a boat rowing, you need 'to pull your own weight' in the boat. Do your fair share, and not let everyone else pull your weight. So, for example, "The new guy at work needs to learn to pull his own weight." Or, "She just joined the rowing crew and she can definitely pull her own weight."

              Expression number five: 'to rock the boat'. 'To rock the boat'. This means to say or do something that will disturb an existing situation, or upset people. 'To rock the boat'. You can imagine that if you're sitting in a little boat out at sea, with a group of people in there, and you suddenly start rocking it, they're probably going to be pretty upset.

              So, for example, "Excuse me, mate, I didn't mean to rock the boat, but is that your wife kissing that guy?" "Nah, don't worry, mate. It's my mum." "Hey, wait. What? Mum!?" Just kidding, guys. Just kidding. Example number two, "I've started a new job and I'm doing whatever the hell I'm told. I don't want to rock the boat."

              So there you go, guys. They are the five expressions. Before we keep going, I'm going to show them on the screen and it's your chance to complete a little exercise, pause the video, pick one of the expressions and write your own example sentence using it in a comment below. See you in a sec.

              All right. Great job. How did you go? Now, lastly, guys, this is the fun part of the lesson.

              We're going to do a little speaking exercise in English, obviously. So in the last episode, we focussed on the Spoken Contraction of the phrase 'would not have' and how it becomes 'wouldn't've'. You'll be able to check this lesson out by clicking the link up above here. Watch it after this video.

              In today's lesson, we're going to follow this pattern of contracted English exercises and we're going to contract the phrase 'did not want to', which becomes 'didn't wanna'. 'Didn't wanna'. 'Didn't wanna'.

              And it has that Syllabic N sound that we covered in the last lesson. 'did'n wannuh'. 'did'n wannuh'.

              For example, "He didn't want to help." "He did'n wannuh help." "He did'n wannuh help."

              Okay, so I'm going to repeat five sentences using the expressions from today's lesson. I'm going to say the first sentence uncontracted. I'll repeat it, then contracted, and we'll go through each of these five expressions. Let's go.

              "She did not want to get wind of it." This is going to be good. Are you ready for this? "She did'n wannuh ge'wind'ovit." "She did'n wannuh ge'wind'ovit." There's a lot of contractions in that sentence. "She did'n wannuh ge'wind'ovit." "She did'n wannuh ge'wind'ovit."

              "He did not want to have a knack for it." He did not want to have a knack for it." "He didn'wannuh hav'a knack forit." "He didn'wannuh hav'a knack forit."

              "I did not want to say over my dead body." "I didn'wannuh say over my dead body." "I didn'wannuh say over my dead body."

              "They did not want to pull their own weight." "They didn'wannuh pull thei'rown weight." "They didn'wannuh pull thei'rown weight." Why not? "They didn'wannuh pull thei'rown weight." Don't forget that Linking R in there, "thei'rown". "Thei'rown." "They didn'wannuh pull thei'rown weight."

              "You did not want to rock the boat." "You didn'wannuh rock the boat." "You didn'wannuh rock the boat."

              Great job, guys! Now lastly, don't forget, if you want to level up your spoken English use of contractions like this, and your pronunciation, check out both my spoken English course and my Australian pronunciation course. You can get access to them via the link in the description. They will help you learn things like the Linking R that we went over in this episode, the Muted T, Linking T, when we use T-flaps, and the Syllabic N which we used in "did'n", "did'n". And there's loads of stuff inside there. Anyway, thanks for joining me and I'll see you in the next episode.

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                    The post AE 1167 – 5 Expressions To Sound Fluent in English | Part 10 appeared first on Aussie English.

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                    AE 1154 – 5 Expressions To Sound Fluent in English | Part 9 https://aussieenglish.com.au/ae-1154-5-expressions-to-sound-fluent-in-english-part-9/ https://aussieenglish.com.au/ae-1154-5-expressions-to-sound-fluent-in-english-part-9/#respond Sun, 26 Jun 2022 09:00:00 +0000 https://aussieenglish.com.au/?p=183440 AE 1154 – Expression 5 Expressions To Sound Fluent in English | Part 9 Learn Australian English in this expression…

                    The post AE 1154 – 5 Expressions To Sound Fluent in English | Part 9 appeared first on Aussie English.

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                    AE 1154 - Expression

                    5 Expressions To Sound Fluent in English | Part 9

                    Learn Australian English in this expression episode of the Aussie English Podcast.

                    These episodes aim to teach you common English expressions as well as give you a fair dinkum true-blue dose of Aussie culture, history, and news and current affairs.

                    ae 1154,pete smissen,aussie english,australian english,aussie english podcast,learn australian english,learn australian accent,learn english online course,learn english podcast,australian podcast,how to sound fluent in english,how to be fluent in english,english expressions examples,make a fool out of yourself meaning,read between the lines meaning,where the rubber meets the road meaning,take no prisoners meaning,foot the bill meaning,english expressions

                    In today's episode...

                    It’s time for a quick review of the English expressions I taught you here on the Aussie English podcast!

                    Over the past few episodes, I talked about 5 English expressions that you can use for your daily conversations:

                    Make A Fool Out Of Yourself 
                    Read Between The Lines 
                    Where The Rubber Meets The Road 
                    Take No Prisoners 
                    Foot The Bill 

                    As always, I’ll give the definition of these expressions and use them in sentences to help you understand what they really mean.

                    Don’t forget to pause the video so you can write your own sentences in the comments section, too.

                    And lastly, I will teach you how to say the contract the phrase “would not have” like a native English speaker!

                    Don’t forget to download your FREE PDF Worksheet here 👉 https://aussieenglish.com.au/AE1154_Worksheet

                    Let me know what you think about this episode! Drop me a line at pete@aussieenglish.com.au 

                     

                    ** Want to wear the kookaburra shirt? **
                    Get yours here at https://aussieenglish.com.au/shirt

                    Improve your listening skills today – listen, play, & pause this episode – and start speaking like a native English speaker!

                    Watch & listen!

                    Listen to today's episode!

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                    Transcript of AE 1154 - 5 Expressions To Sound Fluent in English | Part 9

                    Hey, Pete. I think Emily likes me.

                    How do you know?

                    I can just read between the lines, you know?

                    No. What are you reading? A new book. What's that got to do with Emily?

                    No, I mean, I can work things out without them being explicitly said.

                    Right. So what are you going to do?

                    Well, I guess this is where the rubber meets the road.

                    What? Now you're driving?

                    No, I mean, this is where things are going to get serious, right? I'm going to take no prisoners.

                    What? Is Emily in jail? Is she in trouble?

                    God damn it, Pete. I'm going to have to make another expression episode, aren't I?

                    I think so.

                    G'day, you mob! Welcome to this episode. Today we are going to focus on five expressions that are going to help you sound a lot more like a native speaker when speaking English.

                    I'm Pete, and if it's your first time here, I am the host of Aussie English, and I've been helping people level up their English for over half a decade now. If your goal is to take your English to the next level, in particular your Australian English, then this channel and this podcast is for you.

                    Before we get started, guys, don't forget that today's lesson comes with a worksheet which you can grab down below in the description. You'll be able to download it, follow along with the lesson, and do the exercises. When you sign up for this worksheet too, you'll also get all of the future worksheets sent to your email inbox directly.

                    And lastly, every single English expression that we cover today has been covered in depth on the Aussie English podcast, so you can go and check out each episode related to each of these expressions to really dive in.

                    All right, you ready to get started? Let's go. Expression number one: to make a fool out of yourself. Or just 'to make a fool of yourself'. And you can also 'make a fool out of someone else' or 'of someone else'.

                    So this is to embarrass yourself, if you make a fool out of yourself. But if you make a fool out of someone else, you're tricking or deceiving them and making them look foolish. For example, "I tripped over and made a fool out of myself." Or, "The conman deceived his victim and stole all their money making a fool out of them."

                    Expression number two: 'to read between the lines'. 'To read between the lines'. This is to look for or discover an implied meaning to something that isn't necessarily explicit. It's not obvious. For example, "After I had a fight with my wife, she threw me a pillow. I read between the lines and realised I was going to have to sleep on the couch." Or "Dad, why is this girl at school always teasing me?" "Mate, read between the lines. She likes you."

                    Expression number three: 'where the rubber meets the road'. 'Where the rubber meets the road'. This can mean when the action begins, when you begin a job, when you start to do something seriously. So for example, you're a shipbuilder, you've just built a huge new ship, you're about to launch it into the water. This is 'where the rubber meets the road'. This is where action takes place. It's going to be 'sink or swim'. We've also covered that on the podcast. Check it out here. But you're going to see if this boat works or if it fails. This is 'where the rubber meets the road'.

                    Example number two: You're a tennis player, you've just made it through to the finals. This is 'where the rubber meets the road'. You're going to have to start your job. It's going to get serious. This is where action takes place. You're going to have to do well. This is where the rubber meets the road.

                    All right, guys, before we continue, can you do me a little cheeky favour and give the like button a little boop? It'll really help boost this video in the algorithm on YouTube. And if you haven't subscribed yet, too, don't forget to smash that Subscribe button so you can stay up to date with all the future English videos.

                    All right, expression number four, we're almost there to the end. So this one is: 'to take no prisoners'. 'To take no prisoners'. This means to be ruthlessly aggressive or uncompromising in the pursuit of your objectives. It can also be used literally, to mean that you, as an army or a team or a group, literally take no prisoners. You don't allow them to survive. So, for example, you're an army, you're at war.

                    You've just defeated the enemy and you've decided, 'Sorry, guys, we're going to take no prisoners, kill everyone.' For example, number two, a little less ruthless. You're an MMA fighter and you're about to go into the ring or the Octagon to fight. You're hoping you win. You're going 'to take no prisoners'. You're going to be ruthlessly aggressive, uncompromising in trying to achieve your goals. You're going to take no prisoners.

                    All right. And the last expression, guys, number five is 'to foot the bill'. 'To foot the bill'. It sounds like kicking a bill like maybe you walked up to a duck and just kicked it in the face, but it doesn't mean anything like that. So, 'to foot the bill' means to pay the bill for something, the amount of money required for something, especially when it is rather large and unreasonable in amount.

                    So for example, you and your mates go out for coffee, you go out for brunch, all of a sudden you go to the toilet, come back. Everyone's bailed. After they finish their coffees and finish their food, you're left 'to foot the bill'. You're the one who has to pay for everyone's food and drink because they've all gone. They've done a runner, they've bailed. You're left having to foot the bill.

                    Example number two: Your daughter's getting married and she's come to you and said, "Dad, can you foot the bill for the wedding? Can you pay for things? I mean, I am the bride.." And the dad's like, "Hell no, I'm not going to be left footing the bill for your wedding. There's no way that it's just going to be up to. To pay for everything. I am not going to foot the bill."

                    All right, guys, well done. They are the five expressions. So now I've got a little exercise for you. This is where I want you to pause the video. I'll show the expressions on the screen, and I want you to go into the comment section and write your own example sentence using one of these expressions. And I will see you shortly.

                    Okay. So now comes the fun part of today's lesson with an English exercise. Now, in the last episode we focussed on conjugating different future tenses and I will leave the link up here if you want to go and check that out after this video. But in today's lesson, we're going to focus on contracting the phrase "would not have".

                    So, we can contract this when speaking quickly in English and instead of 'would not have' it sounds like "wouldn’ah", "wouldn’ah", "wouldn’ah".

                    For example: "I wouldn't've thought so." I would not have thought so. I wouldn't've thought so." "Or you wouldn't've known." You would not have known. "You wouldn't've known."

                    So, learning these contractions is a great way to improve your spoken English and sound much more natural when speaking. And if you haven't checked it out already, check out my Spoken English course or my Australian Pronunciation course. These two will really help you level up your speaking skills with Australian pronunciation specifically, but also general English pronunciation and contractions as well. The links will be in the description below.

                    All right, so let's jump into the exercise. So I'm going to use these five expressions from today's lesson in five different sentences, I'll say them first, uncontracted, where we'll say 'would not have', and then I'll say them contracted with "wouldn’ah". Okay, so just listen and repeat after me. Let's go.

                    I would not have made a fool of myself. I wouldn't've made a fool of myself. I wouldn't've made a fool of myself. It's interesting that too you'll notice that of in the end of the phrase there, 'of myself', becomes just 'oh'. I wouldn't have made a fool-oh myself. I wouldn't have made a fool of myself.

                    He would not have read between the lines. He wouldn't've read between the lines. He wouldn't've read between the lines.

                    You would not have known. This is where the rubber meets the road. You wouldn't've known. This is where the rubber meets the road. You wouldn't've known. This is where the rubber meets the road.

                    They would not have taken any prisoners. They wouldn't've taken any prisoners. Notice there how we say the word 'pris-ner'. There's only two syllables, right? It looks like it should be "pri-so-ner" or "pri-so-nuh". But we say 'pris'ner', 'pris'ner', 'pris'ner'. They wouldn't've taken any prisoners.

                    She definitely would not have footed the bill. She definitely wouldn't've footed the bill. She definitely wouldn't've footed the bill.

                    Great work, guys. So that's it for today's episode!

                    The biggest thing here, I think at the end in this exercise, when you're saying ‘wouldn’ah’, it's kind of a really advanced aspect of pronunciation in English. When you say the D sound there, "would'n", "would'n". Because it's not "wood-en", "woo-den", with a hard D sound. It's actually "would'n", "would'n".

                    You're going sort of straight into the syllabic N. It's called with nasal release. So your mouth is effectively going into the D position, stopping the air from coming out of your mouth, and then it's coming out your nose. Your mouth is allowing air to go through your nasal passage and come out your nose as the vowel sound "would'n" "would'n". ‘Wouldn’ah’, ‘wouldn’ah’, ‘wouldn’ah’, ‘wouldn’ah’, ‘wouldn’ah’, ‘wouldn’ah’, ‘wouldn’ah’, ‘wouldn’ah’.

                    So that's a very advanced aspect of Australian English pronunciation and I think English pronunciation more generally. I think Americans and some Brits might use the Syllabic N with nasal release. If you want to learn more about this, check out my Australian Pronunciation course. We go through the Syllabic N and the Syllabic L sounds. These are very advanced sounds, but really, they make you sound much more natural when you nail them. Okay, you can learn them easily. Just check out my course, the Australian Pronunciation course in the link below.

                    And don't forget you can listen to all of the expressions that we went through in today's episode on the podcast in their individual lessons. So anyway, thank you so much for joining me, mate. I hope you enjoyed it and I'll see you next time.

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                      Join my 5-Day FREE English Course!

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                          The post AE 1154 – 5 Expressions To Sound Fluent in English | Part 9 appeared first on Aussie English.

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                          AE 1152 – Interview: How to Build an Online Business on Instagram with Camille Hanson – Part 2 https://aussieenglish.com.au/interview-how-to-build-an-online-business-on-instagram-with-camille-hanson-part-2/ https://aussieenglish.com.au/interview-how-to-build-an-online-business-on-instagram-with-camille-hanson-part-2/#respond Thu, 16 Jun 2022 09:00:00 +0000 https://aussieenglish.com.au/?p=183167 AE 1152 – INTERVIEW How to Build an Online Business on Instagram with Camille Hanson – Part 2 Learn Australian…

                          The post AE 1152 – Interview: How to Build an Online Business on Instagram with Camille Hanson – Part 2 appeared first on Aussie English.

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                          AE 1152 - INTERVIEW

                          How to Build an Online Business on Instagram with Camille Hanson – Part 2

                          Learn Australian English in each of these episodes of the Aussie English Podcast.

                          In these Aussie English Interview episodes, I get to chin-wag with different people in and out of Australia!

                          ae 1152, aussie english interview, aussie english podcast, australian podcast, australian podcaster, camille hanson english, camille hanson instagram, how to build an online business on instagram, how to build online business, how to develop online content, how to grow audience on youtube, how to grow audience tiktok, learn english online course, learn english podcast, learn english with camille, pete smissen, peter smissen, podcast host australia

                          In today's episode...

                          Welcome to another round of awesome chin-wags here on the Aussie English podcast!

                          Meet the lovely Camille Hanson, an online English teacher, influencer, author, avid language learner, and mum of three.

                          In today’s Part 2 of my interview with Camille, we chat about how she ended up becoming an English teacher and how she started her online business.

                          We also talk about how she’s a husband and wife team; her husband works with her as digital entrepreneurs. We talk about how they grew their business online, having realistic expectations around how long it takes to “make it”.

                          She also shares the importance of finding your niche and whether or not you should be worried if there’s a lot of competition in your niche.

                          We got to discuss stuff about Instagram, Tik Tok and YouTube and how to grow your audience on these different platforms. You know, it requires sort of different plans of attack. Some of these things aren’t all the same.

                          Lastly, we talk about how to develop your content and find what will work for you on these different platforms.

                          Let me know what you think about this episode! Drop me a line at pete@aussieenglish.com.au

                          ** Want to wear the kookaburra shirt? **
                          Get yours here at https://aussieenglish.com.au/shirt

                          Improve your listening skills today – listen, play, & pause this episode – and start speaking like a native English speaker!

                          Watch & listen to the convo!

                          Listen to today's episode!

                          This is the FREE podcast player. You can fast-forward and rewind easily as well as slow down or speed up the audio to suit your level.

                          If you’d like to use the Premium Podcast Player as well as get the downloadable transcripts, audio files, and videos for episodes, you can get instant access by joining the Premium Podcast membership here.

                          Listen to today's episode!

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                          You can fast-forward and rewind easily as well as slow down or speed up the audio to suit your level.

                          Transcript of AE 1152 - Interview: How to Build an Online Business on Instagram with Camille Hanson – Part 2

                          G'day, you mob! How's it going? Welcome to this episode of Aussie English. Today is Part Two of my interview with the amazing Camille Hanson. Camille is an online English teacher, and author, a language learner, a mum to three, and she loves travelling around the world, embracing other cultures and obviously learning the languages in those countries.

                          So today, guys, we have a chat about how Camille ended up becoming an English teacher and how she started her online business. We talk about how she's a husband and wife team, so her husband works close with her as an entrepreneur online, too. We talk about how they grew their business online, having realistic expectations around how long it takes to, quote, make it.

                          We talk about the importance of finding your niche and whether or not you should be worried if there's a lot of competition in your niche in online business. We talk about Instagram, Tik Tok and YouTube, and how to grow your audience on these different platforms. You know, it requires sort of different plans of attack. Some of these things aren't all the same, right. And then lastly, we talk about how to develop your content and find what will work for you on these different platforms. So, guys, without any further ado, I give you Camille Hanson, slap the bird and let's get into it.

                          So you're an English teacher and you have an online business teaching English. How did you get into that?

                          Yeah, that's a good question. So I'm not an English teacher by trade. I didn't go to school to teach English. So it's been almost two years since I've been teaching online and it came from my love for language learning and I realised I was doing a lot of exchanges, so I was helping people learn English when they were helping me learn these other languages. And I was like, I really like helping people learn English. And then I kept having people tell me, 'Camille, you should start a YouTube channel.' And it happened three times. And then I was like,

                          Done.

                          Like, maybe this is it. So my husband's like, if it happens again and it did, it happened again. And so then we're like, 'Let's just go for this, let's start it.' And it was right in the pandemic. So we actually had plane tickets to move to Spain in May of 2020. The pandemic hit. It just didn't make it possible. So in May we started brainstorming and coming up with a plan for- YouTube was going to be our main thing. And YouTube, funny enough, is my smallest audience right now. I ended up teaching- starting Tik Tok when we were travelling and then in Instagram as well. And I mean, you create a lot of content, but it's like, okay, how can we make a living from our content? Because YouTube pays me like $30 or $40 a month, you know, from- from my videos.

                          It's not sustainable. So that's when I created an online course. And then I started writing books and then I started getting other companies reaching out to me, asking me to sponsor me, to create a reel for their project, for their product, or for their app or things like that. Recently I just accepted an amazing job. I will see if I like it or not, but it's actually filming a course for- an English course for somebody else's company in Singapore, and they found me from YouTube. So I'm like, 'Yay, Youtube!' Because I'm a small channel, really. But they found me from there.

                          So, and I wanted to originally get you on to talk about growth on Instagram and everything, but maybe we can just sort of talk a little bit about online business for, for people listening who are following- whether or not they're trying to teach a language, if they're trying to or at least considering starting an online business and becoming, quote unquote, 'influencer' in order to sort of get an audience and everything. What other sort of step-by-step things that you need to do in order to, to do that. Because for a bit of context, recently, you- I think the first time you contacted me on Instagram, you were like, I see you've got a sort of big Instagram page, 'Pete, you're teaching English. Do you have any tips and tricks? How can I grow my page?' Everything like that? And I was like, you know, try these things, they might work.

                          And since then, especially in the last week, I think you've exploded on, on there. And you're probably one and a half times my size now. You know, you've well and truly surpassed me. So you've obviously been doing the right things. Before we get into Instagram, though, what are the sort of step-by-step things you, you had to put into place to start developing your online business?

                          Yeah, to be honest, it's a lot of trial and error. Because I didn't even know what kind of content I like creating or what people would like. So it's just really my I didn't have a really specific vision. I was like, I want to teach people English. And people are like, you have to have a niche. You have to maybe, maybe just teach English to Brazilians because you're learning Portuguese, which I was at the time. But then that meant that I would be ruling out the whole rest of the world. And so in my mind, I was like, No, I just cannot do a niche. I want to teach English to the whole world. I know it's crazy, but I do. And so I just kept creating content, kept trying things. But you do have to know that you put in a lot of energy and a lot of time.

                          So I think if you're going to start an online business, I hope it's a passion for you, the thing you like doing. Because it takes up a lot of your time. So for me, it is a passion. It's always been a passion project and so that I've been able to monetise and grow from it. It's just incredible really. But so yeah, a lot of work. And then of course if you're a content creator like me and you, I don't know how to edit YouTube videos and things like that. My husband is a huge part of my team, so he edits and a Brazilian friend in Spain edits my videos. And so there are just many pieces that you're just like, Wow, this takes up a lot of time.

                          Sometimes a vlog, a ten minute vlog, could take 10 hours of time to put together. And so it's just a lot of work that goes into it. And then, I mean, I was like, I'm going to have 100,000 and the first year on YouTube. And I'm like, coming up, July 1st, we'll be two years. And I just got 7000 today, I think, on YouTube. So it's like- you just like, sometimes I just had huge, like, vision and then it can be disappointing because you're putting in the work and you're putting in the work and you're not seeing growth. So that's why I say you have to love it, because I still, even though I wasn't seeing crazy numbers or growth, I was loving it.

                          And I know that I was impacting a small amount of people because I was, I would always get positive feedback. My students, I was getting students as well that I was able to teach one on one. And the feedback was always like, I love your teaching style, you're helping me. And so I was like, okay, you know, when you feel discouraged and you get good feedback, it motivates you. It motivates you to keep going. And so putting things in place, I mean, it's- I think it's going to be hard in the beginning. Like we had also a mindset of, 'Okay, we're going to do this for five years, and then if it goes nowhere, if we get nowhere, then maybe we can consider throwing in the towel' Because- uh-oh, battery exhausted on my end on the camera.

                          It's all good. It's all good. Keep going because I'll use the Zoom video.

                          Okay, perfect. So I'm talking too much.

                          Nah, keep going. It's fine. I love it.

                          Okay, so we said five years, we're going to give it five years. And so we're almost at two. And we've seen, like, especially like you said, I don't know how or what happened, but in, in the past, I think it was about six weeks ago, I started getting 100 people a day on Instagram.

                          And for me that was a lot. And I was like, I think maybe I'm in the Instagram algorithm. But then it just kept getting more and more. And now like it's like 5000 a day.

                          Gee, it's insane.

                          5000 people a day, and I can't even like, I can go back on my Instagram 20 minutes and that's all the notifications I can see, from 20 minutes ago. It just like exploded! And I'm like, I never could have imagined it. Like, this is like a dream for a content creator; to have your content go viral.

                          I think it's kind of like compound interest, though, right? Like, so you've been, you know, you spent the last two years, as you said, working hard to kind of work out what content you enjoy first and foremost, but then also is helping other people, and is going to hopefully feed into the algorithm. And it's like throwing mud at a wall and seeing what sticks. And then eventually it sounds like, you know, we were chatting and you were just like, I don't know what's just happened, but the algorithms just picked up my stuff and is showing it to way more people now. And so I think it is one of those stories that's really interesting of you can't have that expectation going into online business like this, especially the influencer kind of role, whatever, whatever niche you're in and expect to overnight have this happen.

                          It's taken you, as you said, two years-.

                          Two years, yeah.

                          Of hard work and grinding and then only now is it starting to pay off. So that I think that big message of consistency and persistence, right, is what matters. Yeah. And then also I think it also depends on your platform because TikTok, I had an insane explosion of growth in Peru because it's also a geographically base. So wherever you are, it serves up to that region. So I started TikTok and within the first, like in Panama, I had somebody recognise me on the streets. I only have like 6000 followers at the time and someone's like, 'Hey, are you Learning English with Camille? You know, I follow you!'

                          Wow!

                          I was like, 'No way!' And then I went to Peru and I just created videos that were interesting to me about Peru, and I did them in Spanish. And I think my, my most viral one was like 4 million.

                          Holy moly!

                          And then I had several mostly- yeah, I had several 1 million view videos and I was like, 'This is crazy.' So then I had like 100% Peruvian, a little bit of Bolivian, so then 100%, but mostly Peruvian audience following me. But it wasn't like my brand, like Learn English with Camille, you know, like, yeah, yeah. It was like Spanish. It was all in Spanish, you know, interesting things in Spanish. And so I was like, Oh, like, do I just keep TikTok and have it be my travel thing? I still want to reach people with English on there. And so I got back to the States and I was like, I haven't been posting on TikTok at all.

                          And then I was like, 'You know what? I have nothing to lose. I'm just going to start posting a few of my Learn English with Camille actually speaking in English videos.' And a couple of them went viral, like 2 already viral here, so they went over 100 K. So but it got me like I think 25. No, yeah. No, no, sorry. No, I went from 80 to- I meant 95, 15,000. It got me 15,000 followers from those two videos.

                          TikTok's weird, isn't it?

                          It's just so weird because some of the others are like 500 views that I posted after, and I'm like, 'What is wrong with TikTok algorithm?' It's so strange.

                          TikTok's- yeah, it's a weird one, but I think yeah, the story here you're telling, it sounds like you need to get on multiple different platforms and kind of try them out and even try completely different styles, right. Like you were saying in Peru, you're speaking in Spanish and seeing how that goes. And if you were to be staying in Peru and living there permanently or something, it would probably make a lot more sense to go down that niche of speaking Spanish, potentially teaching English in Spanish, you know? So yeah.

                          So once you once you've obviously tried these out and you worked out what's working now. So it sounds like you're saying Tik Tok is working pretty well. Instagram's skyrocketing at the moment. YouTube's a bit slower.

                          Yeah, yeah.

                          Do you kind of adjust what you're doing and then focus on the one that's really working? Or are you still kind of trying all three simultaneously to level them all up together?

                          Yeah, I think I'm seeing people from Instagram now following me on YouTube, so I've noticed my numbers are up on YouTube. I'm getting more, but I've never had- I've never gotten in the algorithm on YouTube. You know, I think-.

                          It's hard.

                          My top viewed videos with my dad Yooper English and it's like 40 K. So that's like my top, you know. We're trying to create one video a week for YouTube, be consistent with that. And then I started posting a few of my Shorts on there as well. You just- I'm just trying things. I don't know. Like I don't know if the Instagram algorithm will continue in my favour for- I- I just don't know. You just can't control these things. So my goal is just to keep creating good content. That's always been my goal that will help people learn English, and that I enjoy creating as well because I think that's important.

                          So how did you decide to monetise your business? This is always a really interesting question to ask people. What was that sort of point when you were like, 'I can make money from this.' And then being like, 'How do I make money from it?' And then actually having the money come in as, as people purchasing, or your products or services.

                          Yeah. So I think- I know it is weird, but I feel like with the more followers you have, you kind of feel more validated, like in the sense of like, 'Yes, my products are worthy!' Like, I believe in my courses and books now more that I have more followers than when I have like 2000 followers, even though they're the same thing, and they're good products. So I decided, I think a year in, my husband. It was my husband, he was like 'Camille, like we haven't made-' we're actually negative. We're like-

                          We spent hours and money on this. Yeah.

                          Yeah! Like we're minus thousands of dollars from buying equipment and cameras and things like that, maybe just like two or 3000 minus, you know, but never paying ourselves. If we were to have to pay ourselves for the work and hours we put in.

                          Exactly.

                          Minus 50,000, you know.

                          So I guess to pause you quickly there, another thing about starting these sorts of online businesses, too, is being aware of the fact that there is an initial investment in terms of your own money to buy equipment and online products and websites and all that, but also your hours that need to be spent on this thing, too, right?

                          Yes. Yes. So about a year end, he was like, I think we just need to start now, you know you've been at this for a year and I think we just need to create products now and like start having things that people can purchase and buy. And that was like scary at the beginning. It was weird, selling my products. I was like, 'Who's going to buy it?' Like, it's good, but like, are they going to buy it? And you just, you doubt, you know, and you have insecurities about your product. But then I think, I don't know if you can relate, but the more that you create courses, the more that you write books, the more that you grow yourself in.

                          Like, I'm learning so much about English, writing these books and creating these courses and teaching people and things like that. Then I'm like, 'No, like my time is worth being paid for my services.' Like, I believe in them. I think they're good. So I think like you have to believe in them for others to believe in them. Really, I think that's an important step.

                          Wow. And to be on that that journey of wanting to improve and wanting to learn at the same time, like you don't need to be an expert when you first begin. Obviously, you want to be trying to, to learn and be ahead of the people that you're trying to serve, right, with whatever product or service it is. But at the same time, you don't have to be some genius with 50 years experience in the English teaching world in order to be able to create a course and get it to people that's going to help people.

                          Yeah, exactly. Which is cool. Which I love for sure.

                          Yeah. Awesome. So are there any other big lessons with the online business that you've kind of had to learn whilst, whilst doing it all? Was there a point where you were like, 'This is it. We've done it. We're millionaires, we're set for the rest of our lives.' Or is it an ongoing process?

                          No, I wish. No.

                          That was a loaded question.

                          Yeah. I mean, my goal is to continue to create good products. So I have a three year vision to release ten books. So books are just the avenue. I actually really love writing books. So I'm about to release a pronunciation book. I'm working on a modern day dialogue book with conversations. I want to help people with grammar and work on a grammar book. So there's a lot of books that I have in the next few years that I hope to release, and hopefully those will get in the algorithm too, so that we can get...

                          On Amazon.

                          Yeah, exactly, exactly. But I feel like it's just trial and error. It's just trying things. I, I, it's also like learning from other content creators, asking them, what do you do? How do you do it? People that have already gone ahead of you, people that have bigger audiences or are successful with their courses or with their books and learning and growing from them, being open minded. And being willing, willing to adapt to yourself and just change things if you need to. And I think to not let yourself get discouraged or be too hard on yourself as a content creator as well. Be proud. Be proud of the work that you've put in.

                          Should you be intimidated by the amount of competition out there?

                          It can be intimidating, but I think it's not good to go down that road. Because it's just like a never ending cycle. You know, I think look at yourself, see how far you've come, look at others to be inspired. You can want to get to where they're at for sure, but don't do it in a way that you're like, 'Oh my gosh, I only have 100 followers and they have 1 million.' Like, you don't know how many years of work that person put in before they got into the algorithm or before they became successful. We're all on a journey. Our journey looks different. I feel like there's a voice for every person.

                          If they feel like I'm called to be a content creator or have an online business, I think good. Like, pursue that. There will be a market for you. It'll just take you some time to figure everything out and be creative and make the product that your audience needs or wants.

                          I think a big part of it, too, is realising that people like different people and hate different people, right? And so there's always an audience for you, no matter- I think what you're like, whether you're the most disagreeable and sort of angry person or whether you're the most lovely, friendly, beautiful human being in the world, there's always going to be an audience that's kind of like, I resonate with this person and I can learn effectively with them because I'm engaged with their content.

                          Yes!

                          Whereas other people who are in the exact same nation teach a different way, I don't really enjoy and I don't like the same way.

                          Yeah.

                          So I feel like that's one of those big things. So you shouldn't be intimidated if there's a lot of competition because it obviously means that there's a lot of interest and a lot of space for people to be in that niche, right?

                          Yes, totally. Especially with teaching English, there's 1.7 peo- 1.7 billion people trying to learn English. Like, that is insane. When I heard that number, I was like, 'Okay, there's got to be some people that like my style of teaching out of the 1.7 billion'.

                          One- and how many do you need, right? You probably- I think there's a, there's a few of those sorts of books, you know, that are like 'a thousand true fans' or 'my tribe' and everything.

                          Yeah!

                          And the basic message is you only really need a thousand people who purchased something from you. And if they were to purchase a $50 product that's $50,000 a year, and if you are selling 1000 products, that's what like 100 a month or something, three a day. You can sort of work towards that and the numbers become less intimidating and it does turn into a full time job, potentially.

                          Mm-hmm, exactly. Which I love. Yeah.

                          So what's on in the future? You were saying you're writing some more books. You're planning to do that. Are there any other big things coming up for, for Camille, and Learn English with Camille?

                          I think just a lot of content creation. So I've realised that people really like seeing real life conversations. So today me and my husband went out and filmed, checking into a hotel, buying ice cream, ordering at a restaurant, pumping gas. What was it? There's five. There were five. So a lot of creative videos like that. And then I really enjoy collaborations with other content creators like yourself, so I hope to keep doing collaborations. And I'm also really passionate about live interviews like this because I'm curious by nature and so you can expect on my Instagram live interviews with different teachers or interesting people as well.

                          I was going to ask you, I saw one of your reels went viral on Instagram and I think it was where you were ordering coffee. So it had three, 400,000 views, which is astonishing. But I was going to ask, how do you line those things up? Because you are effectively in a coffee shop and there's obviously two camera angles. There's an angle on you. There's an angle on the person working there and she looks like she is actually working there. It's not like you're fully acting it out, right? That's the person-.

                          No, they're legit. Like the people we go to, they're legit workers or the people working there.

                          So how do you line that up? Because I've always thought it would be so cool to do the same thing, but I'm just horrified of walking up to someone I don't know and asking them to effectively act in a video for me on YouTube.

                          Yeah.

                          How do you- how do you do that? How do you overcome that?

                          Yeah! So I just tell them I'm like, 'Hey, I'm a content creator. I teach people English online. And people really would be interested to know how to order in a restaurant. Could I film you? Could you just be normal? Say what you normally would say, but can I film you?' And everyone said yes today.

                          Everyone wanted to be in the reels. Everyone wants me to tag them on Instagram. So I think it's cool. And today my husband, he had- okay, so he was going like back and forth like Camille, coffee girl. Camille coffee girl. And it wasn't as natural, you know what I mean?

                          Yeah.

                          Because we were pausing and my sister is like, 'Camille, you look like you were, like, about to crack up laughing like the whole time.' I'm like, 'I know, it was funny! It was slow. It didn't feel natural, you know.'

                          You need your husband with two cameras where-.

                          He had two! Yeah, he had two today. Both. We have the same iPhone. This iPhone is legit. And he was filming both of us like this, different angles. So it felt more natural for the person. They didn't have to pause. It just felt like a natural conversation. So now we'll just see the editing part and how that flows.

                          You'll need some kind of a gadget where you can just slot them in. There needs to be like a gimbal or something where there's space for two phones that you can kind of like align so that you get those-.

                          I know!

                          Camera angles.

                          Hey, maybe you need to create that.

                          Oh man. Anyway, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. Where can people find out more about you and what you do?

                          Yeah. So they can find me on my Instagram, which is @camillehanson, on YouTube, Learn English with Camille. Same on TikTok, Learn English with Camille. My website, I'm pretty sure it's www.learnenglishwithcamille.com as well.

                          Pretty sure?

                          Pretty sure! I never check it. My husband handles a lot of those kind of things as well. Even my Twitter, he handles it. I've never been on Twitter once, so if he's responded to you, it's not me.

                          That's not a bad thing. I think if you can avoid getting on Twitter.

                          Okay, okay. Sometimes it's just too much, you know, too many places. And we're like, we're one person.

                          Well, you're two. I'm so jealous of you. I wish my wife were just as motivated. And she was, like, helping me with the cameras and all this sort of stuff. She was like, You're on your own, dude.

                          Oh, man. That's another thing. If you're wanting to start your own thing, like you just- sometimes it's hard to set boundaries. Sometimes you don't have a normal 9 to 5 job. Sometimes you're responding at 7 a.m., responding at 10:00 pm. It's- it's hard to set the boundaries when you're passionate about your project, about your work as well. So that's something else for content creators to consider as well.

                          And I think you're doing an amazing job. But yeah, once again,

                          Thank you!

                          Thank you so much for coming on and hopefully we can have another chat in the future.

                          Yes, thank you so much. I had so much fun.

                          My pleasure, mate!

                          Bye, guys!

                          See you guys!

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                                The post AE 1152 – Interview: How to Build an Online Business on Instagram with Camille Hanson – Part 2 appeared first on Aussie English.

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                                AE 1151 – Interview: How to Learn 5 Languages from Scratch with Camille Hanson – Part 1 https://aussieenglish.com.au/ae-1150-interview-how-to-learn-5-languages-from-scratch-with-camille-hanson-part-1/ https://aussieenglish.com.au/ae-1150-interview-how-to-learn-5-languages-from-scratch-with-camille-hanson-part-1/#respond Sun, 12 Jun 2022 09:00:00 +0000 https://aussieenglish.com.au/?p=183046 AE 1151 – INTERVIEW How to Learn 5 Languages from Scratch with Camille Hanson – Part 1 Learn Australian English…

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                                AE 1151 - INTERVIEW

                                How to Learn 5 Languages from Scratch with Camille Hanson – Part 1

                                Learn Australian English in each of these episodes of the Aussie English Podcast.

                                In these Aussie English Interview episodes, I get to chin-wag with different people in and out of Australia!

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                                In today's episode...

                                Welcome to another round of awesome chin-wags here on the Aussie English podcast!

                                Meet the lovely Camille Hanson, an online English teacher, influencers, author, avid language learner, and mum of three.

                                In today’s episode, we talk about what it’s like being a parent to very young children & what it was like for Camille growing up in the US.

                                You see, she grew in a very cold part of the US called Michigan; like, 6 months of winter every year! That’s a lot of snow!

                                We talk about different accents and dialects in the US and what it’s like if you’ve got a very unique accent or dialect and decide to move somewhere, say like California or New York.

                                We also talk about vegetarianism, and language learning – she speaks five languages! She also shares what it was like learning at school versus learning later on in life by yourself.

                                Lastly, we talk about what it’s like travelling around the world with three kids whilst also trying to learn languages.

                                Join us today and learn how you can learn many languages from scratch, what a Yooper is, and why vegetarians become vegetarians.

                                Let me know what you think about this episode! Drop me a line at pete@aussieenglish.com.au

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                                Transcript of AE 1151 - Interview: How to Learn 5 Languages from Scratch with Camille Hanson – Part 1

                                G'day, you mob! Welcome to this episode of Aussie English. Today I have the pleasure of chatting with Camille Hanson, who is an online English teacher, influencer, author, avid language learner and mum of three. She does a lot of travelling and I thought it would be great to get her on the podcast and have a bit of a yarn, have a bit of a chat.

                                So this is going to be split into two parts. Today is Part One where we talk about a whole range of different topics, including what it's like being a parent to very young children, what it was like for Camille growing up in the US. She didn't have the standard childhood. She grew up in a very cold part of the US called Michigan, had a cold climate. We talk about different accents and dialects in the US and what it's like if you've got a very unique accent or dialect and decide to move somewhere, say like California or New York.

                                Later on in life, we talk about vegetarianism, we talk about language learning. She speaks five languages and what it was like learning at school versus learning later on in life by yourself. And then lastly, we talk about what it's like travelling around the world with three kids whilst also trying to learn languages. So without any further ado, guys, slap the bird and let's get into today's episode.

                                G'day, you mob! How's it going? Welcome to this episode of Aussie English. Today I have Camille Hanson on the podcast. She is a mum, polyglot, author, and content creator and English teacher online. Camille, how's it going?

                                Hey, it's going great. How are you?

                                Good. I'm good. I'm tired, but good, man. I talk about this too often, but I got gastro again. Fourth time, since my daughter was born.

                                Oh!

                                I'm recovering from that this week. That's been great fun. So how does it- does it get easier? The- like you've got older kids than my kids. Does the gastro slow down?

                                Yeah. So what do you mean by gastro?

                                Like a stomach bug, right? Like vomiting.

                                Oh, okay.

                                Gastroenteritis.

                                Oh, you have- Oh, no. Oh, no. So usually, I don't know how, but I never get what my kids get. But I just fight through it. Yeah, I fight through it. I take a lot of supplements. Apple cider vinegar.

                                Yeah.

                                Vitamin C. I do- oh, I do an immunity booster shot with lemon juice and maple syrup. And garlic is-.

                                Is it a daily thing?

                                No, only when I'm starting to feel under the weather, I take that shot, and I swear it helps every time. I do not have time to get sick. I have too many things to do, so I stay fairly healthy.

                                Yeah, it's. It's not- you sound like my wife. Where she, for whatever reason, I don't know if it's like a pregnant woman thing. And then after you give birth and you have young children, that the women seem to not get sick like the men do.

                                I feel, at least in my personal experience, my wife seems to always dodge those bullets so the kids will get like really sick. I'll get it. And my wife's like, I'm fine, you know? And you just sort of like, how did you- we're all in the same house. Like, how did you dodge that?

                                I know. It's the same thing in my house. The last few times my husband has gotten it and I have not. Someone has to take care of the family. I think that's why.

                                Well, and that's- it may be an evolutionary thing, right, where the mum has to stay healthy to take care of her kids, whereas the- the men are disposable.

                                I don't know about that. I'm sure you're very involved, too.

                                Yeah. So do you want to tell us a little bit about your background? Where are you originally from and what was it like growing up there?

                                Oh, my goodness. So I'm originally from the Upper Peninsula. I am a Yooper. That's what they say.

                                A Yooper?

                                So- a Yooper. Yes. A Yooper accent is pretty intense. I think I've lost most of my accent. I don't pronounce the words like they do up there or it's like bag and tag. They're like bag and lag and- I can pull it out. I can pull it out, but I'm not like super proud of the accent, but I'm proud of my heritage. My parents are part Finnish and Swedish, so I come from that background, Scandinavian roots.

                                We grew up with a sauna in our house, which was a lot of fun.

                                Hence the blonde hair, I imagine?

                                Yes, exactly. All my sisters. I'm one of five girls and we all have blonde hair. Yeah.

                                Holy moly. Far out.

                                Yeah.

                                So how do you spell Yooper?

                                Y O O P E R.

                                And does it stand for anything? Or is it just like, where does that-.

                                A person from the U.P. Yooper! I know! And they call people from lower Michigan 'trolls' because they live under the bridge, because there's a bridge going from Upper Peninsula to lower peninsula. So.

                                So what was it like growing up then in Michigan compared to the rest of the US? I mean, people listening and as well as myself probably have a bit of experience because we watched so many TV shows and movies and listen to a lot of American culture, music, all that sort of stuff. Is, is Michigan really, really unique in terms of culture and everything compared to the rest of America? Or is it somewhat sort of similar? Because I know compared to Australia you guys have a lot of diversity, right? So what was it like? How does it compare?

                                Yeah, I would say as far as the Upper Peninsula goes, a lot of times people are like, are you from Canada? Because the accent is similar to there and then it's very cold. So I grew up- I feel like people from the U.P. just have to be tough, man.

                                I grew up hauling wood. My dad would cut down trees and us girls would have to literally haul firewood for the winter. Like, I grew up pulling weeds and watering gardens and picking berries and tons of outdoor things. So I think it was a really healthy childhood. No TV in my home until we were- I was 12 when my dad first got a TV.

                                Wow.

                                So a lot of outdoor living. I learnt how to fish, I never learnt how to hunt, but my dad did hunt deer every single year. So...

                                Is that because you didn't want to learn or because it was like a-.

                                Yeah, yeah.

                                Manly man thing and we keep this away from the girls?

                                No, some of my sisters learnt, but I was like, "That was just gross, dad." It's so bloody. I don't like it. I don't want to do it. Yeah.

                                I think I could handle shooting the deer. Again, it sounds brutal, but I can imagine taking the responsibility of hunting and killing your own food seems very kind of responsible and romantic. A little bit romantic to me, right? Like you're out in the wilderness, you're taking it upon yourself to be humane and kill the meat that you're actually going to eat, as opposed to just buying it at the supermarket. But I think the processing of the animal after having killed it would be the thing that would turn me off. I'd be like, Nah, I'm a vegetarian. Screw this.

                                Yeah, no, I am a vegetarian. Ironically. Ironically, I am. I still eat fish, I eat eggs, I eat cheese. But I still have those images of the deer hanging in my dad's garage, which is open, you know. And then sometimes like the meat like that, he would cook. I just remember, like blood on the plate and just things like that. And that is intense. I just don't love it. But they are big meat eaters. Even my family eats meat. My kids, my husband, my parents. Yeah.

                                Do you think that, like that vegetarian thing? A lot of vegetarians that I meet, at least the ones who've maintained it, seem to have become vegetarians as kids. And it's usually some kind of, I don't want to say traumatising event, but they kind of- something happens where they they suddenly get that realisation of, 'Oh crap, we're eating animals.' Like, like, like our dogs and cats and sheep that we see. The cute little bunnies and all that sort of stuff. And then they're like, 'Yeah, no, that's not happening ever.' So is that your sort of experience? Was that from a very young age or was that later in life?

                                No, but it is funny because I have memories where we'd be out at a campfire roasting hot dogs and I just didn't like them. So I would pretend I had a hot dog and I just have the bun. Yes, I know. Me and my mom laughed to this day, so I've never been a huge fan of meat.

                                And then I realised, okay, you know, when all the Netflix documentaries came out, What The Health, Forks Over Knives. I watched them and I was like, I actually don't love eating meat. This is really gross. Why am I still eating meat? And so I gave it up and it was actually pretty easy. It's been over five years already.

                                This is one of those things that it's going to be really interesting in the next 50 or 200 years. We probably won't see it. But when, when we have the ability to create meat in a lab as easily as to farm animals and kill them and then harvest the meat to sell in in the shops. And when that meat in the lab becomes as expensive, it's going to become one of those things, I think, where we'll be like, What the hell were we doing in the past? Like, this was so immoral and unethical when we have the option now of just buying cruelty-free meat, suffering-free meet.

                                So it would be really interesting for our kids probably, and their children, where that option may be available to them. And they'll be looking back and being like, you guys used to just mass slaughter all these animals and have them in the shops. Like, That's awful. And we'll be like, Well, that was the only option, you know, at the time. Like..?

                                Yeah, it's true. I think I feel like things are ever evolving in the food line and in creation and in, like you said, creating things in the lab. They already have many meat substitutes out there.

                                Yeah.

                                Super interesting.

                                Have you tried those?

                                A couple of them, but I usually just- I don't even do it. I try to eat as wholesome as possible. I cook a lot of my own food. I do a lot of Indian and Thai food with a lot of vegetables and things like that. We do a lot of beans and chickpeas. And so I feel like you can make delicious food that hasn't been manufactured in a lab as well. And it's healthier, I think, for your body.

                                I guess that's that thing too, of if you don't like meat because it tastes like meat, you're not really going to want vegetable products that taste like meat. You'll be like, this has just made something I like really bad.

                                Yeah, yeah. But for people that don't want to eat meat, maybe it could be a good option for them. That's still like the taste of meat.

                                Yeah, I think that's one of those things. The only thing that's turned me off, those impossible burgers and everything, is that they just. They can't seem to get the texture right. You know, that, that kind of like fibrous, the meaty, fibrous kind of texture. So it still, it just feels weird because it's not meat, but it's not veggies. And you're kind of like, this is just strange. It doesn't feel like normal food. So.

                                Yeah.

                                Yeah. Anyway, going back to growing up in Michigan, how culturally different were you, do you think, from the rest of America or from different parts of America? We probably see New Yorkers and Californians who are kind of a bit different, but kind of the city slicker-kind of type Americans. Right. But was growing up in Michigan, where you were obviously from a family that was a lot more, I don't know. What would you say closer, to the land of hunting, chopping firewood? Did you feel culturally different from the kinds of Americans you saw on TV and were surrounded by when you moved?

                                I think so because it's a pretty sheltered life up in the U.P. really. So I didn't know that much. Plus, not having a TV for years and years, you know? Just know what your parents show, what they display in front of you. But looking back, I'm super thankful for my upbringing and the experiences that I had. And if the weather was beautiful like it is every summer, all year round, I think it could be possible for me to even move back there. Because the winters, six months out of the year. It's tough. It's really tough. So much snow. I'm a warm weather person, but the summers are beautiful. Lake Superior is massive. It's like an ocean. We grew up water skiing and boating in the summers. Summers are really a lot of fun.

                                Yeah, you'd be rooting for climate change, I think. That would be the only way to, to deal with those winters.

                                The only way. And my parents just moved to the south last fall, and they're just like, wow, it's so hot. Like, it's still freezing. They compare everything to the U.P. because they live there their whole lives. They're 65 and now they're down here. And so the South is a shock for them. And my dad, he's so funny because the accent is pretty strong down here.

                                Yeah.

                                And so he's already like trying to fit in. He'll just be like, 'Y'all, y'all, come in', just try to do the things that I'm like, 'Dad, this just does not so natural coming from you.'.

                                Wow! So do you guys have that, too? Where if Americans move around in America, you will actually try and take up the local accent a little bit if you want to fit in.

                                Some people take on some of the slang words, some of the words used. I think it's pretty hard to change your accent unless you've lived there for a long time. So my dad is just doing it more to joke around, I think.

                                Did you ever notice kids doing that though, in school, when they had travelled overseas and then came back? We had- I went to school and there were a few children who got to do like 'gap years' where they would go to a different country, a lot would go to foreign countries. When I say that, I guess non-English speaking countries and learn the language, but then there would be some who'd go to Canada or America, and this would be when they were probably 15 or 16, and they would come back with an American accent and you'd just be like, Wow, okay. You know?

                                And it would take months for it to wear off again for them to go back. And it was just really interesting seeing how obviously amenable they were to changing and adapting based on the social group they had around them. And so as soon as they got there, they wanted to fit in and just changed how they, you know, said all of the different vowel sounds and the R's especially. So did you ever notice that when you were at school?

                                I didn't. So at school I graduated with 24 kids in my class. So it's a very small public school. It was just tiny. It's like a different world. Yeah.

                                Yeah, I think I would have had 120 in mine. So.

                                Yeah, most people. Yes.

                                Crazy. All right. So you grew up in, in Michigan. How did you end up becoming such an avid language learner? And Traveller.

                                Yeah, that is an interesting question. So my grandfather, he was a missions pastor overseas, mostly to Guatemala. And so I went on my first trip overseas with my grandfather. When I was 17, to Guatemala.

                                Wow.

                                And I never even imagined that I'd learn Spanish someday. It was- it's kind of not our mindset to learn languages.

                                It's just not. We had to take one- no, I actually did take two years in high school, but it was self taught. And I was the only one in the class and it was online. So you don't really- I didn't really learn anything.

                                What do you mean, it was self taught? As in like you had to teach yourself-

                                Sorry, you had to have to cut this part.

                                No, you're right. You're right. So self taught in that what you were studying on your own.

                                Yeah. So basically they gave you a book and you had to just go on the computer and try to do the assignments with the book and try to learn it by yourself. Yeah. So it wasn't effective for me at the time because I didn't know how to even learn a language, you know?

                                It's funny you say that because the older you get, as soon as you get out of high school and you start learning languages in the sort of conventional way, that tends to be the way that people learn the most and the fastest, right. It's just autodidactically by yourself online now with the internet and everything. But it is funny that when you don't know how to do that and perhaps you're not motivated, it is, it's ineffective compared to classes.

                                Yeah. Because since then I've taught myself, but then also speaking to natives with Portuguese, Italian and French, and I did go to a Spanish school, private lessons in Mexico, but I didn't start language learning until I was 27 years old.

                                And we were like, We're moving to Spain, we're moving to Barcelona. And we got connected with a girl who said, 'My parents live in Mexico and they know a teacher and she's amazing.' So we thought it's way cheaper to go to Mexico. So let's go to Mexico first, learn some Spanish. We took three months and then just moved to Spain and that was shocking. The accent difference from Mexico.

                                Ah yeah.

                                To Spain. It's kind of like the English we speak here. And then in Australia, you know, there's a difference.

                                Do they use a lot of the different pronouns there too? Is it South America that uses like 'usted' instead of 'tu' or, I'm not sure with Spanish.

                                So in Spain, they use 'vosotros'.

                                'Vosotros', okay.

                                ... you guys. Yeah. And they do not use that in Latin America.

                                Yeah. It's funny that split, right. Because that happens in Portuguese where in Portugal you'll have 'tu' and 'vos'. But then in Brazil you'll have 'voce', 'tu voce', there's a whole bunch of different ones that I'm sure that Portuguese people understand but just never use themselves. And if you were to say, if you were to say 'vos' for like the plural 'you' in Brazil it sounds like, I think you're reading from the Bible, right. It's very official, proper language.

                                Very formal.

                                Yeah.

                                Yeah, yeah. It's true. There are so many differences in language just between countries, the same language, but between countries, like you said, Portugal and Brazil.

                                I chose to learn Brazilian Portuguese. Yeah.

                                I think it's hard. I would love to learn. I would love to learn Portuguese. Portuguese. But it becomes one of those things of I'm not living there, I'm not planning to go to Portugal. So it's kind of, it's ineffective because all the content that I'm consuming in every single Portuguese speaker I come across, 99% of them are Brazilians. And so it's kind of like it makes more sense, right? So.

                                Yes.

                                Think I've lost you there again. We're back! We're back.

                                You see, you see when you freeze, right? You know.

                                Yeah I see you frozen. I don't see me frozen but yeah.

                                Oh interesting. Ok, yeah. I don't see me frozen. Just you.

                                Oh, well, okay. So you started learning Spanish. What was that process like when you went to Mexico? Was that a really quick process that you pick the language up in classes, or is it slow and arduous? What was it like for you guys?

                                Yeah. So it was a Monday through Friday, 4 hours of class.

                                Wow.

                                Just me and my husband. And then she would give us 30 words of vocab to learn a day. It was pretty traditional. It was all grammar, a lot of grammar. We would read out loud in class with her. And then we lived with Mexican families, so we'd go home to these families that did not speak any English. So it was an immersion, I would say.

                                And by the end of the three months we were speaking in broken Spanish, broken sentences, but I remember my head hurting and us needing to take siestas every day. We were just so tired. Like language learning is tiring. It happens to me every time in the start of a language because I go full in. I just want to get as much as I can and learn so much. And every time I'm like, Why am I more tired than normal? And then I'm like, Oh yeah, new language.

                                Well, I'd have to look into the neuro-linguistic side of it, but it feels like it's probably your conscious brain is having to work so much harder than usual. Like when we're speaking English here, we don't think consciously about putting the sentences together or anything like that. But when I- even when I still speak in Portuguese with my wife, at times I feel like it requires more energy than English.

                                Yeah, for sure. For sure.

                                So, sorry.

                                No, no. Sometimes I go to sleep at night, like trying to form sentences of the language I'm learning, like, in my head, you know, right before bed.

                                I catch myself sometimes trying to translate what people are saying to me when they're speaking in English and as a kind of like exercise or try and say it in Portuguese in my own head, but you end up sort of zoning out.

                                Yeah. Like, Wait, are you with me here?

                                I know. That's it. Your eyes just glaze over.

                                Yeah. Yeah.

                                So how did you end up then learning a bunch of different languages on top of that? Because you speak about five different languages, right?

                                Yes. Yes. So after Spanish, we moved to Spain. We lived in Spain for a couple of years. We moved back to Hawaii. We were living in Hawaii, back and forth. And we had a friend there who asked me, literally, I remember, and this is why I started learning another language. She was like, 'Camille, why do you only speak Spanish and English?' Because she was from Finland and she spoke like five languages. And I was like, 'You know what? You're right, I can learn another one.'.

                                So I chose Italian. And me and my husband. We were like just watching Netflix in the evenings. We had our two small kids, Maddox and Ivory, and we were like, You know what? We really could make better use out of our time. Let's just do a three month language challenge. Let's just each study a language for three months. So he chose Portuguese, ironically, and I chose Italian. And every night for probably 2 hours we would just be studying our languages side by side, but different languages, and we loved it. And that was like the start. And then it was probably two years later when I was like, I was watching a polyglot video on YouTube and I'm like, Okay, polyglot goals. I have to become a polyglot. So cool.

                                And the next day I started learning Portuguese. And I studied it pretty intensely for a year. And then I knew, okay, I might as well learn French because then I have the major romance languages done and then I'll start with 'not done'. You always are learning. I mean, I make a lot of mistakes. My goal isn't to master any one language, but to get to a good level of proficiency in all of them so that I could have a live with somebody in that language so that I can understand movies and talk to people, have phone calls, live in the country. So a good level but not mastering it. And then I move on to the next language.

                                So how do you maintain them? Because I found that really difficult. I tried to pick up Spanish a while back, but I think my Portuguese was still to, to sort of basic to intermediate level that I was just finding the language has kind of infected one another. And so it would make it very difficult to, to keep them separated and then advance in both of them. So how do you end up maintaining, I guess, boundaries between those languages, especially when they're all romance languages and they're all so similar to one another? So there'll be a lot of cognates, the grammar will be similar.

                                Yeah. So I think my biggest thing is that I've made real friends that speak those languages that I want to talk to on a regular basis.

                                So it's really having these friendships, having phone calls with my friends, and then I love watching series in other languages. And I really enjoy reading books as well. So I have a bunch of books that- I have them going at the same time and they're in different languages. So.

                                Do you ever read the same book in all those languages? Like I've had Harry Potter before,

                                That's a good idea!

                                Where I've read chapter by chapter in French and in Portuguese, you know, to try and be like, All right, so I read it in the strongest language first and then I'm like, I know what's going on. And then the weaker language. I'm like, Well, I already know what happens in this chapter, so I can kind of fill in the blanks.

                                Yeah, it's a great idea. I have that going on just with a French, but it's also an English because French is my, I would say, weakest language maybe right now, because it's the most recent and it's hard. Literature is another level, you know.

                                In French.

                                Really. Yes. Yes.

                                Why do you think that?

                                Because it just feels like, okay, well, first of all, nothing is- it's not phonetic. So when I'm reading compared to when I'm having phone calls, I'm like, Oh, yeah, this is this word, you know? And then there's just, it's a very, very rich language. And so I feel like, man, it's not easy. It's been the hardest one for me. And I've studied it the longest as well.

                                I think French is one of those ones, too, that's interesting. Because when you read you don't realise- I think from memory there's like 14 verb tenses in French and ten of them they use when speaking, but the other four, they only use in writing; again, from memory. And so there's a whole bunch that you'll be reading and you'll be like, What the hell are all these words? And then you just have to remember, Oh, they're using all these words that you would never actually say, but they're conjugating these verbs, using these tenses that are literally tenses and not actually what you would speak or say. You'd sound like a weirdo, speaking with Shakespearean kind of English if you were to use them.

                                I actually didn't know that. So that's going to motivate me now with my French reading. Thank you for that.

                                Yeah, it was a difficult one for me to overcome, too, because they, they do it with everything. So you'll read Harry Potter and they'll be using a bunch of those tenses and you'd be like, God, can't you just write it in, like normal English? Normal English. Normal French?

                                Yes. Yes. Did you actually learn French? No?

                                I know it's tough. It's tough. But so yeah, I was going to say, which one of these did you find the most difficult? So French is the most difficult out of all the romance languages you reckon that you've encountered?

                                Yes. Yeah. Pronunciation. I still struggle with the R and the U. I'm like, that's my giveaway. Yeah. Like if I open my mouth and pretty much every word has those letters, you know?

                                I think, what- yeah, what's one of those funny ones that I had when I was first learning it saying like 'beau cul' instead of 'beaucoup'. Right. Like, so you're saying,

                                Oh, yeah.

                                'Beautiful butthole' instead of 'a lot', right?

                                Yes. You have to be careful. You have to be careful with that pronunciation.

                                Or those, those cognates, right. With like, 'excited'. Did you ever have that in.

                                Oh yeah.

                                That'd be the same I reckon. It must be the same in all of them. Where 'excited' in those languages means horny, right. Turned on.

                                Yes.

                                Whereas-.

                                You have to be careful. Yes.

                                You would need to say what? Like, 'animated', I think typically tends to be the word that you would use in those languages. That means 'excited' like 'animado' in Portuguese would be 'excited' if you said 'excitado', they'd be like, "Whoa, dude, put it away!", you know.

                                But it's like the beauty of language learning because it's really funny to me to find those differences. I love it. I really do.

                                Have you-.

                                Are we back?

                                Yes. Yeah, I know. It's slowing down. I'll give you time for you to come back here. Okay. Have you been teaching these languages with you- to your kids at all? Or are you using any of these languages with your kids?

                                So, really, not so much. I wish I could say 'Yes, I am.' I want them to learn, but they're not really into it. So when we were travelling we had a nanny for, whenever possible, I would search for a nanny and every time the nanny never spoke English. So we had a nanny that spoke only Portuguese, spoke only Spanish. So my kids were picking it up and it was pretty amazing to see, especially my older son, who was eight, he was really starting to learn things. And then we came back to the States and he was like, No, he was starting to mix Spanish and Portuguese together. Yeah, it was so funny. He'd say one sentence with some Spanish and some Portuguese in it, and I was like, Interesting.

                                Yeah, well, it's funny. My kids, so we speak Portuguese only at home effectively, probably 90% of the time. English does come-.

                                You, too?!

                                Yeah, my wife and I. Yeah.

                                You both do with your kids?

                                Yeah, well, she's Brazilian, so.

                                Yes.

                                Yeah, so she.

                                But usually, like, one parent will stick with one language and then the other will stick with the other language.

                                I'm being selfish, so I'm, I'm trying to improve. Yeah, I'm trying to improve my Portuguese at the same time and maintain it-.

                                Ahh, smart!

                                Because her entire family doesn't speak English. So I'm trying to be able to at least speak Portuguese well enough to communicate with them. But the hardest thing is that they get English everywhere else.

                                And so they, they've pretty quickly just become English as default and they'll insert words that are Portuguese every now and then, like, Oh, what does Noah always say? He'll be like, 'I want the door perto.' And I was like, Do you mean 'aberta', 'aberta', 'porta aberta', like 'door open' when he goes to sleep, he wants the door open and he'd be like, 'Yeah, yeah, yeah. Aberta, aberta. I, I want, I want the door aberta.' And I'm like, oh, just pick one language.

                                It takes a while, but then kids learn how to separate and then they will have incredible levels in both languages. They'll be native.

                                I hope so. That's the difficult part. I think that requires a lot of work. It's being able to maintain the exposure but also make it fun so that they don't want to get away from it. Because I feel like if we, if we were this kind of parents, that would be like, you need to sit down and study Portuguese. I think pretty quickly they'd be like, Screw this, I'm not interested, just English. And you'd get that rejection of the language. And so that's the hardest part. It's like, how do we make this fun? How do we show them it's useful and keep them engaging with it every single day? But yeah, daycare is brutal because every day they come back from daycare with new English words or phrases and you're just like, Could you guys just speak Portuguese at daycare? Like, dammit!

                                But they'll be amazing. They'll be amazing in both, you'll see. And that is the biggest gift that you can give your kids: language. Seriously, we had to struggle as adults to learn these languages. We're still struggling as adults, and for them to be able to get it from zero is incredible.

                                Yeah, fingers crossed. So you've done a lot of travelling. You've done a lot of travelling in your time. I think I read on your Amazon bio that you've been to 40 countries which, which have been the most interesting and which have been your favourites?

                                Oh, wow. I need some time. So I'll just tell you from my most recent travels, we went to Costa Rica, Panama, Brazil and Peru, and Peru shocked us. Peru was just incredible. The landscapes, the food, the people, the handcrafted things that people make there and sell, just so cool. And then the prices, so low, so incredible.

                                Is Peru the country where they have those really interesting tribes, where the women wear top hats?

                                Yes, yes, yes.

                                I've always wanted to go and check, check those places out because like I remember seeing the clothing and the cultural practises there in documentaries and on TV, and I'm like, this is just so interesting. And the top hat, the- how the top hat became this, this thing that they wear that just seems so interesting.

                                They- it became that, if I'm not wrong, because they wanted to distinguish between tribes.

                                Ahhh!

                                And so ones that have the flattop are from a different tribe than the ones that have- yeah. They have different hats and-.

                                So, like, social markers.

                                Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And then of course, there are just incredible. There's Machu Picchu, which is one of the Seven Wonders of the World. There's Coca Canyon, which is one of the biggest canyons in the world. There are llamas and alpacas. I mean, come on, they're amazing. My favourite animal now, I literally- my husband was like, 'Mille, you're coming over the spirit of the land.' I almost got a llama tattoo. I just fell in love with them. They're so cute.

                                Do you ever just see them in Peru, like on the side of the road as well?

                                Yes.

                                Oh, really?

                                Exactly. That's what you see. So then we would always be like, 'Oh, my gosh!' We would stop the car, we wouldn't get too close, but we would go take pictures, watch them. My kids are fascinated. We would take videos. They're just wild. And then there are- one time, this was so cool. We went to like a salt- a salt lake. Incredible. Like it was made of salt, but it looks like snow. And we had to go through this little town crossing. And this lady happened to be letting out all of her llamas. So there were hundreds of llamas. And I was like, 'Oh, I'm in heaven!' In llama heaven, just getting to watch them all.

                                So, you just go running in amongst, 'I'm home!'

                                Yeah, yeah! Home with the llamas. You want to go hug them, but they don't recommend it. So I never got-

                                Yeah, I heard they're pretty vicious, right? They pretty vicious animals.

                                I didn't see that side. I only saw them as adorable and sweet. But supposedly they can spit in your face and yeah, they can be a little vicious. So.

                                I've heard they can kick the crap out of you, like there's- we have them in Australia and.

                                Yeah.

                                They'll have them in an, in and amongst flocks of sheep that are 'lambing' generally. So you'll have one, you'll see one llama or one alpaca with a flock of sheep and it's because of the foxes that we have here. So foxes that are in, an introduced species in Australia, kill the lambs and are a big problem. And the sheep aren't defensive enough. And so they put an alpaca or a llama in there and the llama will fuck them up if they- if a fox comes anywhere near them. Yeah. We'll mess them up. So you'll see that every now and then. You'll see these like a flock of sheep and there'll be one with a really tall neck and a big head sticking over the top, looking around.

                                Wow, that's hilarious. Yeah, they told us my kids really wanted to ride them, and they're like, no, 20 lbs limit for the llamas. Because some are conditioned to take, like they're tourist attractions in some towns. So they'll dress them up and the women have them and then you can pay them and take a photo or pet it or things like that, which we did every time because it's just so cool.

                                Wow. So where else have you been? Is it mainly South America and Europe that you've been travelling?

                                Yes. As well as- we lived in Taiwan for three months.

                                Yeah.

                                And then India for three months. We were in Thailand and Turkey and then I would say mostly Europe as well. And then yeah, Central and South America. Never been to Africa.

                                Yeah, I know. Neither have I. I would love to go. How do you feel as an American? Because it seems like the stereotype is that Americans don't leave America, but the ones that you meet, who you meet at home, like in my country, the Americans I meet tend to be very open minded, worldly. They learn other languages because they've- I guess it's like self selecting the Americans you're going to meet in Australia are the ones that are leaving the country and travelling around and interested in the rest of the world. Do you feel like it? You know, you're a bit different from the average American that way, a bit more worldly and have a different view of of, well, the world, right?

                                Yeah. I mean because we've travelled so much, because we've lived overseas, I feel like the experiences that we've had and the people that we've met have definitely shaped us. And we are more open minded and interested in other countries of the world.

                                Like to hear my son say, Oh, I just really want to go to Turkey. I'm like, most eight year olds probably don't even know that there is a country called Turkey. They just know the animal, you know. So I think it's even shaping our kids to have a bigger world view and just to see, 'Wow, people live like this.' So we're really adaptable as travellers. Like sometimes we have to stay in one room. I mean, it's not ideal, it's not good over the long term, but- we don't have the comforts that we have here in the States, you know, our own home and we have a pool and we have anything we want at our fingertips and 5 minutes down the road, any type of food and all of those things.

                                And so when we travel, we're giving that up. But in exchange, we're learning about cultures, we're visiting Mayan ruins and architecture and meeting people and hearing their stories and doing interviews on the streets and all of that stuff. And I feel like I'm just like, whoa, like, I have so much to learn from everyone else, you know?

                                I think that's the thing you get addicted to, right? And I think that was what encouraged me to keep wanting to learn languages. I was like, the process of just discovering new things, whether it's how the language works or whether it's about different cultures or being able to talk to people who've grown up in different cultures and they can share their experiences with you if they don't speak English, it's like, it's so kind of addictive once you start opening that door, right?

                                Yes. We just got a printed book in the mail, like a photo book of our last trip we took and we're like, Oh, we've got to travel again. We just miss it. We feel so alive when we travel and we love it and we're so thankful. We recognise that like, wow, it's a privilege that we get to travel and see the world and work online. It really is.

                                Do you think most Americans, and probably not just Americans, Westerners in general, appreciate things the way that you probably do as a result of travelling and learning languages and everything? Because I feel like the average Australian here, if I were to meet them, I don't feel like they have a deep appreciation for how lucky we are and what we have.

                                Yeah, I don't think so. I really don't. A lot of people that I meet they're, they don't- even in America, it seems like everywhere else people want to travel. But other Americans are like, No, I'm fine here. Many of them don't have interest in travelling. I have very few American friends that speak other languages, so sometimes it's hard to relate and identify. But I hope I can inspire people to learn and to travel and to keep growing and developing as, as people. Really.

                                Yeah. Very true.

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                                      AE 1147 – Interview: Building an Online Business with Podcasting with Lindsay McMahon https://aussieenglish.com.au/ae-1147-interview-building-an-online-business-with-podcasting-with-lindsay-mcmahon/ https://aussieenglish.com.au/ae-1147-interview-building-an-online-business-with-podcasting-with-lindsay-mcmahon/#respond Wed, 25 May 2022 09:00:00 +0000 https://aussieenglish.com.au/?p=182463 AE 1147 – INTERVIEW Building an Online Business with Podcasting with Lindsay McMahon Learn Australian English in each of these…

                                      The post AE 1147 – Interview: Building an Online Business with Podcasting with Lindsay McMahon appeared first on Aussie English.

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                                      AE 1147 - INTERVIEW

                                      Building an Online Business with Podcasting with Lindsay McMahon

                                      Learn Australian English in each of these episodes of the Aussie English Podcast.

                                      In these Aussie English Interview episodes, I get to chin-wag with different people in and out of Australia!

                                      ae 1147,pete smissen,peter smissen,aussie english,australian english,pete smisen,aussie english podcast,learn english podcast,learn australian english,lindsay mcmahon,build online business with podcasting,how podcasting helps online business,how to start a podcast,learn english online course,all ears english,all ears english podcast,esl course,esl podcast,how to teach english using podcast,online business podcast,learn advanced english

                                      In today's episode...

                                      Here’s another awesome chin-wagging episode for you guys!

                                      Let’s welcome back Lindsay McMahon, co-owner of the All Ears English podcast!

                                      You may remember her from episode AE 678, where we talked about the difference between American and Australian English.

                                      In today’s episode, we talk about podcasting as a business.

                                      She shares tips on how literally anyone can start a podcast, use it for their business, and not have to spend a huge fortune to start things up.

                                      We also talk about her life as an online entrepreneur, why networking with other podcasters is a key to success, and how sponsorships work into business podcasts.

                                      Let me know what you think about this episode! Drop me a line at pete@aussieenglish.com.au

                                       

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                                      Transcript of AE 1147 - Interview: Building an Online Business with Podcasting with Lindsay McMahon

                                      G'day, you mob. Welcome to this episode of Aussie English. Today I have Lindsay McMahon from the "All Ears English Podcast". Lindsay, how are you going?

                                      Hey, Pete, I'm excited to be here. I'm doing great. How are you?

                                      I'm good. I'm good. Now, Lindsay was on the podcast all the way back in episode 678. I looked that up ahead of time, guys. My memory is not that good. Where we were talking about American versus Australian English. So, go and check that episode out and obviously go and check out Lindsay's podcast "All Ears English Podcast".

                                      Today I wanted to chat to her about podcasting, being an online entrepreneur and business, hopefully to help you guys get the gears moving in your minds, if you're ever thinking about starting an online business or your own podcast, whether or not that has anything to do with English or languages. Hopefully today we can talk about some tips and strategies and share our experiences.

                                      Yours obviously specifically about what the process is like and show that it's not as bad as I think a lot of people think. So, Lindsay, how long have you been doing the "All Ears English Podcast"? How long have you been doing that and how did you do it? How did you get into it?

                                      Yeah, sure. Pete, thanks for having me on again. So, we started "All Ears English" back in 2013, just before podcasting was cool. Right? This was the day- These were the days when no one, honestly, no one knew what a podcast was. It was kind of nerdy. There was just a small set of sort of self-improvement, self-help entrepreneurs doing it. It was still so small, it hadn't gone mainstream.

                                      It hadn't gone to NPR or even Cereal yet. Right? So, it hadn't had its, boom. So, that's when I started, 2013.

                                      Wow. So, that was about the time I think Joe Rogan started. So, this would have been before he was even a big deal. So, yeah, this was definitely in the sort of early, early days. What made you decide that you wanted to become a podcaster? Did you have a sort of big plan ahead to take over the English speaking, you know, world online and business?

                                      Or was it something you just sort of dabbled in a little bit initially as something fun to do?

                                      Yeah, I mean, I think three things. I wanted to work for myself and build something scalable because my dad was a business owner and when I was like seven years old, he was telling me, be your own boss. Right, it's so American. And so, don't work for anyone. Be your own boss. Build your own- I'm like, I'm seven. You know, that means nothing to me.

                                      Get off my back, Dad. Geez, I'm trying to just do my homework.

                                      Exactly. Yeah. But somewhere around age 29-30, that kicked in, that message came back to the fore. And yeah, and I went for it. And then also having travelled and taught English as a second language, I knew that this market was one where obviously some innovation was needed. You know, the old traditional models of the classroom, the textbook have not worked for our listeners. They haven't really worked, right, because we can't connect.

                                      And so, I wanted to solve that problem. And then just the fact that I was a listener of podcasts. I firmly believe that if you start anything, if you build an app- If you write a newsletter, you have to be a reader, right? If you build an app, you should use apps, you should be a consumer of that media. So, it's kind of those three things.

                                      Well, that's how it started for me. I was learning French really hardcore after taking a sort of ten-year hiatus after high school, and I was like, I want to learn a language. And I was listening to the podcast "Francais Authentic, Authentic French", and just fell in love with how he had things set up and found it really useful.

                                      And then when I was chatting to my friends who were French saying, you know, I'm listening to this podcast and it's helping. Are you doing the same with English? They were like, what? There's no Australian English podcast like this, and that was how I ended up doing it. But...

                                      Love it. Yeah.

                                      ...How did you get started? Like when you decided, I want to start a podcast, what does that entail? What do you need? Do you need a lot of money? Do you need a lot of equipment? It probably seems a bit overwhelming for most people. What's it like?

                                      Yeah, sure. Well, you definitely don't need a lot of money. So, at the time I was living in Boston, and I contacted another ESL teacher in Boston who I had sort of met a couple of times and I said, hey, do you want to start a podcast? So, she was my co-host for the first year. She ended up leaving after the first year, and then after that year I hired on my co-host, and they are still here with me on my team.

                                      So, it's been seven years, which I feel incredibly lucky. But you don't need a lot of money. I mean, it's a cliche and I always say it, but it really comes down to plugging in a microphone and being willing to start just creating those episodes. I see people get so- You know where it is, Pete, that I see people get stuck? Is that they think they have to edit their own podcast.

                                      We- If you want to become a podcaster, that's totally different from becoming an audio engineer. If you want to be an audio engineer, go to town with the editing and the levelling. This is my opinion. You might have a different opinion and you can tell me. But I have not- I've never edited one episode. We've always had, I think my co-host the first like 20 episodes she edited, I think.

                                      And then we hired someone right away. And I've had the same editor since then, for seven years. He's great. I don't need to know how to edit a podcast. Right? I need to know how to interview someone, how to teach a fun lesson on the show. So, what skill are we building?

                                      Yeah.

                                      That's the key.

                                      Well, I guess you're wanting to focus on your skills first and foremost. What am I good at and how do I outsource what I'm not good at? And that's probably a really good point to make that if you are wanting to start a business like this, you don't have to learn everything and you don't need a lot of money.

                                      You can find people who can edit podcasts, and I imagine when you first got started it wasn't, you know, hundreds of dollars for them to edit a podcast. It would have been tens of dollars if that, right, to just put it together and it's quick for them and bam, you don't have to do all this investment in terms of time and learning and everything.

                                      I think though, that said, if you do want to learn those sorts of skills, it may seem overwhelming, but YouTube, man, YouTube is God when it comes to learning tasks like this. And you can learn to edit a podcast and get free music and all that sort of stuff within a day, right? Like you could work it out if you wanted to do it too. So, don't let that stop you.

                                      Exactly. I totally agree. I mean, it's a choose your own adventure, right? I mean, that's kind of the big challenge with being an entrepreneur. You don't have a boss. So, your boss- There's no boss to tell you spend your time doing this. So, if you spend your time in the wrong way for too long, you're out of business, right? So, we need to make sure that we're doing the right things at the right time.

                                      That's been my biggest challenge all along.

                                      So, if someone came to you right now and was like, I want to start a podcast, give me a list of things that I need to purchase, to organise today to be able to release this thing tomorrow, imagining that they can get it, you know, they can record it and do all of that sort of stuff.

                                      What are the kind of the first things that come to mind or the list of things that you would need in order to be able to record it, edit it, put it out online and then get on to the next episode?

                                      Okay. So, I always recommend- I mean, if we want to be very specific and practical, I recommend, obviously you do need a minimum viable quality of audio. Right? So, you need to figure out where that is. But listen to your own show, listen to your own recordings. And is that okay for you? Because we do have a visceral reaction to bad audio and you need people to, you know, hear your intro and keep listening.

                                      If it's bad audio, they will not listen. Right. And we're at a certain standard quality now where people have expectations. But I use the ATR 2100 and this mic cost less than $100 on Amazon. $100 is what I think you need to get started. Find your editor on Upwork or another freelancer.com site. And that's all you need. We use audacity to record locally, so I always record with my co-host.

                                      So, we record locally on Zoom and then record on Audacity so we can put those audios together. So...

                                      And this is a free programme for you guys wondering. Audacity is free.

                                      Yeah. So, really, I would say all you need is about $150 to get started...

                                      And some time. Yeah.

                                      And some time. Yeah. So, it's really, there's still a low barrier of entry. That doesn't mean you're going to have a bajillion listeners in the first week. That's another conversation. But you can start recording episodes. Right?

                                      So, what do you do when you want to get the podcast out there? So, you've recorded it. You've got the MP3 or the wave file on your computer, it's ready to go. What's the next sort of step for getting it out there onto people's phones so that it can get into their ear holes, and they can learn? You can drop the knowledge bombs.

                                      Yeah, for sure. So, find a host- So, that's the other thing. You need a place to host your audios and get an RSS feed. So, if you don't have an RSS feed, it's not technically a podcast. And the beautiful thing about podcasting is that it is an open RSS feed format. That means all these apps grab your RSS feed and it goes everywhere. It's not just limited to one place like YouTube.

                                      Youtube is great, but if YouTube goes down tomorrow, our channels are gone, right? The podcast, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Castbox. But those are just the beginning. There's, you know, there's hundreds of them all over the world that are going to grab your RSS feed.

                                      So, we started on "Libsyn", Libsyn.com. I think that's a great place to get started for a first-year podcaster. It's really cheap. $5 a month you can get started, I think $5 or $10 bucks a month. Yeah.

                                      Yeah, exactly. And I think yeah, it sounds complicated, but literally I think all you need to do is you upload your MP3 on their website into your page when you log in and the RSS feed is already created, like you will just be able to- It's there and then you need to- I think with things like Apple Podcasts and Spotify, you'll have to go to those websites and then insert the RSS feed. But that's about it.

                                      It sounds more complicated than it is. I would say just go to YouTube and there will be dozens of tutorials of people showing you step by step of, just do this, just do this, just do this, and then hit go and you're ready to go. And it is a lot easier than you think, right? I think Apple Podcasts, once you've set it all up and put your thing in, it takes like 24 hours and boom, your podcasts there.

                                      Yeah, they've gotten a lot faster. I mean, you know how easy it is today compared to honestly, when we started, I think there was one guide, one PDF by John Lee Dumas or Pat Flynn on how to do this. And that was all we could find. And that was it. And now there is so- Because it is a huge industry, there's so much infrastructure, there's so much for you to get started.

                                      So, don't let those little technical steps get in the way. You can get that stuff done in a weekend or less than a weekend. And so, the biggest hurdle is the content. So, I think the most important thing is understanding who is your target listener. Just as if you're starting a business, who are you creating this for? What is the gap in what they currently have and what you're going to give them? Right? How is it going to be a little bit different?

                                      Podcasting is about personality, Pete, right? We put our personalities into what we're doing, so.

                                      Yeah. How important do you think that is? I have friends in the ESL teaching realm, creating content, and they range anywhere from what I would say is me, but where I'm very extreme in sharing my life with people and you know, uploading photos and talking about day-to-day issues and even my own mental health.

                                      And then I'll have other people who are very guarded and put up a very sort of distinct barrier between their personal life and their business. As a podcaster, though, where do you feel like the sweet spot is there?

                                      Yeah, that's a good question. I think we know the line, right? I think we can feel it when we're crossing over it. It's different for every audience and every podcaster. For me, it's just as long as I'm tying in what I'm sharing into something that's going to benefit them. It's always about them. It's never about me. Right, if I'm having a bad day, I can talk about how to say that in English.

                                      I can go deeper into the philosophy behind having a bad day. I can talk about how to deal with this, but it's always about them. I think that's the key, right?

                                      Customer first.

                                      Yeah. Yes.

                                      So, yeah, I guess that's sort of how- How do you make good content? That's the first thing, keeping the customer in mind. How is this going to benefit them, them first and foremost? But are there other tips that you have with structuring a good quality episode? And obviously this is probably going to vary quite a bit depending on the industry you're in.

                                      But do you want to maybe talk about how you would structure an effective episode in the ESL world of podcasting and why you do it that way?

                                      Absolutely. So, we keep our structure quite consistent. We do short episodes because we know a typical commute is 15 to 20 minutes, particularly in the target countries that are our biggest listener base. And so, we imagine that listener getting on the train and then 20 minutes later getting off and being able to complete an episode. We like that. That feels...

                                      That's very clever. That's very strategic. I hadn't thought of that.

                                      Yeah, we worked backwards a little. So, we- At the very first launch, the very beginning we were doing- At first I think we were doing longer episodes and then we thought, oh, we want to publish four days a week, so why not just break up this 45 minute episode into four, now our hour episode into four episodes, and then we have the content for the week and that does help- Has helped our download significantly over the years, right.

                                      Because you're just putting out more content, more opportunities to get found and it has a cumulative effect.

                                      Yeah.

                                      But structuring it, it depends on your show. Everyone has their own style. When I went on Charlie's show a few weeks ago, he had three phases to his episodes, which I thought was kind of cool. He kind of let the audience know, hey, this is the end of phase one. If you want to, you know, come back next time, we're done, or you can stay on for phase two where we're going to talk about X.

                                      For us, it's quicker, it's more actionable. We like to include role plays because we know that our listeners love role plays. So, we'll teach something like a vocabulary point and then we'll put them into a role play. We always do a takeaway. So, these are the key notes of our episodes, but you've got to kind of figure out your own. Right?

                                      Brilliant. Charlie too, is from the British English podcast, for anyone wondering. You were on there recently, so obviously go and check out that episode too. But I think that's the key, right? And having to get your statistics for your podcast, work out how certain episodes are performing, try different things.

                                      I think you mentioned, you know, you don't have your own boss, so you don't really have an instruction manual for how to do this kind of work. And that's the thing that I'm kind of- It's a gift and a curse. I end up bashing my head against the wall at times because I'm like, oh, I just want to know what'll work.

                                      But there's no one there that you can just be like, knock on their door, go into their office, and they're like, here's the answer, right? So, you have to just kind of be open to testing new things and seeing how it goes.

                                      Yeah. And I would also say, don't lock yourself into- I don't know if podcasting is for everyone. I think some people do better on video. I personally, I hate just talking to a camera solo. I need this, like I need the chemistry between you and me, Pete. I need my co-host. Otherwise, I get bored out of my head. But some people are great just talking to the camera and have a solo show and they're incredibly successful. So, try that too.

                                      Like, don't just say, well, podcasting is definitely my thing. Try it out, try video, try blogging, try Tiktok, right? Because I think different personalities appeal in different ways to these channels.

                                      Well, yeah, you got to play to your strengths, right. And you might not know ahead of time what you're going to be good at. Like I never...

                                      Yes.

                                      ...I never really had any experience podcasting and being in front of a camera prior to doing well, like recording my voice prior to podcasting and sort of diving in and then working out what do I actually- What do I like, what am I good at and what do I not like? You know? So, yeah, and then trying those different social media platforms too, and there are so many now that it's hard to do all of them and to do all of them well.

                                      And again, I would say, and I don't know what your advice is, but pick the one that you enjoy or that you're good at and just stick to it as opposed to trying everything.

                                      Totally. Pick the one, you know, try everything for the first month or two, and a little bit of everything like just sampling, right? Like you're at a buffet or something. And then pick the one where you feel like time just sort of stops or time- Like your kind of in the zone, you're in flow, right? I mean, for me, podcasting is that feeling of flow. I am able to be present. I can enjoy it.

                                      I feel like it's play to me. I'm playing right now, right? Whereas when I'm trying to film a video, I'm like, oh God, the lighting is awful. This is wrong. This is crooked. I'm frustrated. Right. So, that's the key, pick the one that feels natural to you.

                                      What do you think about expertise and starting a podcast? Do you need to be an expert in the area that you want to do a podcast or an online business, a YouTube channel about? Do you think you need to be an absolute expert first and foremost, or is this something you can kind of develop along the way?

                                      Yeah, I don't think you need to be- I mean, what is expertise? Right. I think that the concept of expertise is evolving. You could be an expert in bringing a new perspective to an industry. Right? And we don't need to rely anymore on academia to grant us this degree, and now you're an expert.

                                      Certainly if you're going to teach something like IELTS, so we have a second podcast called "IELTS Energy Podcast", and we only started that podcast because I hired someone who had been an examiner for 14 years. So, she's a deep, deep expert in the test, right? Otherwise, I would have felt like I needed to go and get some- At least take the exam myself, you know, study it, understand it, and make sure I had some level of expertise.

                                      So, when you're teaching something technical like that, you should become some level of an expert. But I think a lot of this we can learn along the way.

                                      100%. And yeah, that was sort of my finding at the start. I was like, I'm not an expert in teaching English. I've never had any credentials with teaching English. The only expertise I have is being able to use the language, you know, as a quote unquote "native speaker".

                                      Yeah.

                                      But then I was also, I guess, I had become an expert at learning languages and then was trying to tie all these things in, and it just- The skills grew over time. So, it was like as the years progressed I learnt more and more about, you know, what it is that I'm doing and I share my mistakes and I grow as a result.

                                      I think people like that too, when they can see that you're not just this, you know, God in this area who has absolute knowledge of some specific topic, and you just deliver the knowledge on a regular basis. Instead, you get to share your wins and your losses and show that you are changing your mind or learning new things and having a conversation with the audience, I think a little more and showing them your journey. Right?

                                      Exactly. So, don't let that- You know, just because you don't have traditional credentials, don't let that separate you. It's more like if you feel you have a message. So, that's the next piece that I would recommend. You know, more important than credentials is, like, kind of meaning behind what you're doing. A message, meaning what does it mean to you? Right, what does language learning mean to you? Why is it important in the world?

                                      You want to communicate that piece and then you're building your credentials as you're going along.

                                      Exactly. Yeah. It is one of those things you can always get educated in these areas later on in life if you want. Like I could always go and become an English teacher or at least get the credentials to do it if I really want to be able to do that. But yeah, massive thing is passion, right? As you were saying.

                                      If you can't- If you don't already have that passion and you can't foster it, it's going to be much harder to keep doing what you're doing, and it's probably going to be a bit more of a chore, right?

                                      Well, especially with audio, even more than video, I think, because in video you can kind of use your body language and you can kind of make it happen. Right. But with audio, people hear your voice. It's so intimate, that connection between you and your listeners, they can hear if you don't want to be on the mic. So...

                                      Yeah.

                                      ...You know, be on the mic if you want to. Don't be there if you just you're not feeling it, so.

                                      Have you gone back and listened to your very first episode any time recently?

                                      Yeah, we have. Yeah, I've listened to it. It's- It should never be anywhere...

                                      How would you say you've changed since listening to it?

                                      Well, the actual original first episode, that episode was recorded with like a refrigerator humming in the background, wood floors, super tall ceilings, the worst conditions you could ever have.

                                      Lots of reverb and echo, huh?

                                      Oh, terrible. Terrible. I think I've gotten a lot more confident on the microphone, you know, feeling like at some point I stepped into, this is my place, this is where I belong, inspiring our community. And I think I wasn't there from day one. So, you do need to step into it through just hours on the mic.

                                      Well, and that's the thing, right? Like I have a lot of people ask, how do I develop confidence when speaking English? And I'm like, there's not really sort of a one trick you can do. It just takes time, and you have to work on self-esteem too, and how you see yourself as a person. If you value yourself, you're going to build up that confidence over time and, you know, you're not going to feel nervous the same way.

                                      And it was like that with starting a podcast, I'm sure for you, for me too. You go back and listen to me and I'm sort of a nervous, younger version of myself, who- I was sitting on a dead tree out in the park recording it on my phone. I think I was just holding my phone to my face, recording the podcast.

                                      Sure.

                                      But yeah, it is funny how much it changes over time, and maybe that's a good exercise for people to do. Go back and listen to big podcasts first episodes, especially if it's been quite a few years and have a listen to the change and realise that generally the person on that first episode is just like you.

                                      In terms of experience with podcasting they have no idea what's ahead and it's, you know, just takes time and they slowly grow into those shoes, right?

                                      Yeah. I mean, I think it's a big myth that we can think our way to being confident. Right? Confidence comes from just taking action, the thing you're afraid of doing and then that's where confidence comes from. It's not from strategizing and think, oh, I should be this way. I should be more confident. It's just action taking. That's all it is.

                                      Have you ever done a martial art? Have you ever done something like Brazilian jiu-jitsu at all?

                                      So, I've done a little bit of capoeira. I don't know if that's considered a martial art or like a sport. I don't know what it is. Yeah.

                                      With jiu-jitsu because it's 100% full contact. When you first start, you get so, like, you just get the adrenaline dump when you fight someone, you know, you're wrestling with them and you just, you effectively freak out because you don't know what's happening and you're scared.

                                      But within a few months that no longer happens anymore and your kind of just reacting and just, you know, you've effectively gotten the confidence to know I'm not going to die and I know what I need to do to get out of this situation.

                                      And I feel it's a similar sort of thing with these sorts of like public speaking. And you have to do it. I couldn't sit at home and train myself to be- To not have that adrenaline dump the first time I go to a Brazilian jiu-jitsu class just by thinking about it, you have to go have the dump, do it for weeks, months, and then slowly it gets better and better and better and better. So, I think it's the same with English.

                                      That's a great example. Yeah, that's a great example and it's kind of a journey. I think we have to enjoy that journey, in the moment it's painful and awful, but then you get to look back on that and say, look, that's been my growth, that's been my journey. And then we get a sense of accomplishment from it. It's fulfilment.

                                      Exactly. So, can I ask you about monetisation? When you first started the podcast, how and when did you decide to try and make money from it? Was that a goal that was right there from the beginning, or was this something that later on happened?

                                      Yeah. So, at the time when the podcast started in 2013, I had another business that I was building. So, I thought that was a tutoring company I was building, and I was hiring tutors in New York and Boston, and I thought that was going to be my main business. And then, like I said, this felt like play, and it felt like it was in the zone. And all of a sudden I realised, oh, this is actually the more scalable business.

                                      And so, we started by selling transcripts, I think the first year, which was obviously, you know, fine enough to cover our costs. And then I think after about- At about the year mark, we took on our first sponsor and we monetised through sponsorships for the first couple of years. And then I started buildi- We started our first online course when I hired the IELTS expert, Jessica.

                                      So, as soon as I took her on, I said, okay, we're building a course, right? Because you're an expert in this exam. We're doing this right away. We launched that in 2015. So, that was our journey in the first couple of years.

                                      And how long did it take for you to get to a point where you were like, I can do this full time? I can- I make enough money, you know, to be able to not have to have, say, the tutoring company or another job on the side, or did you already have kind of like enough money saved up where you could just transition effortlessly into it and then build it up?

                                      Yeah. I mean, I was never really doing the paycheque-to-paycheque thing. Yeah. Things were- Yeah. I always like to keep a little cushion, like not to be too much on the edge.

                                      But I think somewhere around the time we had that online course, that first online course or IELTS course, around that time, I was able to feel like I could go full time into "All Ears English" and kind of leave the tutoring behind, maybe keep a couple of clients for myself, but stop hiring other tutors and stop outsourcing that. So, around that time, a couple of years in, I would say.

                                      And did you know sort of at that time that your business, again, I'm assuming, it would make you more money than, say, a standard 9-to-5 job? You know, did it have that- Did you realise that sort of- What would you say? Lucratively? What's the noun for that? Lucrative... (both talking)

                                      Yeah. Maybe your listeners know. I don't know. Yeah. I think that I always knew that there was this scalability. I never saw myself on the path for the 9-to-5 job anyways. So, to be honest, it was never about "All Ears English" versus the 9-to-5. I've really never worked a 9-to-5 and I don't plan to.

                                      Yeah. High-five, sister.

                                      Yes.

                                      My wife's applying for jobs at the moment and she's always like, so when you had your last full-time job? And I was just like, guess again.

                                      Never done it, going to the grave like that. I feel proud of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's good. And it's good when you're in a partnership, when one person does have a 9-to-5 and that works for them, and then someone else can be an entrepreneur. So, the entrepreneur is striving for this scale of income and then, you know, the other partner is able to build their career and maintain that stability. That's a nice...

                                      Exactly.

                                      ...Can't always have that. So, yeah, I never saw that as an option. So, it was going to work or nothing. Right. So, we just went for it.

                                      Far out. Far out. So, how has it changed over the time since you began and what have you had to do throughout the years to kind of stay out ahead of things and to be adapting, you know, to the way that things are going?

                                      Yeah, I mean, I think I've seen some big changes in our market recently. I think that in the pandemic, in the beginning of the pandemic, we saw a real, you know, a spike in online learning because a lot of people were at home and had nothing to do. And we saw that, we launched a business English course that first year, July of 2020. Really nice results. Things were going great. And I was like, oh, we're going to make it through this pandemic.

                                      It's going to be great. And we've seen a little bit more of a challenge into 2021 as more competition, I'm not sure if you've seen this, too, Peter, or not. Well, I've talked to a few people in this space where more schools that had been on brick and mortar have gone online.

                                      So, things have become a bit more competitive. So, now we're looking at kind of diversifying in three different ways. We've still got our education stuff going, our courses going, building our community. We're also partnering with companies where we are licencing, our content to companies and having them have our content in their ecosystems and being able to just customise that for them. In addition to working with sponsors on our podcast.

                                      So, kind of three key ways where we're building it out for the future and scaling up our iOS and Android apps. So, kind of those four branches, I think makes us a bit more, you know, a bit more defensible, let's say.

                                      Yeah. Your sort of safety, right? You've got your eggs in different baskets so that if any single area has its difficulties, you've got sort of three other areas potentially where you've got income still coming in.

                                      So, was that something that you only recently realised was going to be really important or have you been working towards diversifying and having, you know, a bigger and bigger business to the point where it's the next Tesla or something?

                                      I don't know about the next Tesla.

                                      Fingers crossed, right? Imagine if we could do that in the English-speaking learning world, you know?

                                      Oh, geez. Yeah. Yeah, I think maybe this is the part of the neurotic side of me that I always look to diversify. Maybe it's because I don't want to have a 9-to-5. You know, I don't ever want to have to go apply for a job and the way that I make sure is I overcompensate by working really hard...

                                      Yeah.

                                      ...And making sure that the business is defensible in ways that maybe your average person wouldn't really think about or wouldn't- Would just ride the wave. But I think that's an important key. Like, you always have to be thinking ahead. This is working now, but in two years what's going to be working? So, working towards that.

                                      And just seeing where markets are going. Podcasting is getting huge. The advertising market in podcasting is getting huge. I think I just read a stat today that 2021 exceeded $1.4 billion in podcast ad revenue, like ad investment in the podcasting space. So, look at where markets are moving, where money is moving and start to diversify.

                                      Brilliant. And last question. How do you grow a podcast effectively? So, you know, you've got your podcast up there. You are getting, you know, a small audience that is slowly growing organically. You've got some products, but what can you do to kind of push things along a little in your favour?

                                      Yeah, there's a couple of things that I think really work. So, what I don't think works is- Or what works less well, I think is trying to move people across channels, like from Instagram to a podcast, because if they're not already podcast listeners, it's very hard to tell them what a podcast is, how to subscribe, how to follow.

                                      So, the best way is what we're doing right now is being a guest on another show, doing a promo swap, which is something new, which I'm exploring now, which is having another podcast with a similar audience, mention your show and vice-versa. Right?

                                      Effectively trading ads, right?

                                      Trading ads, yeah. Exactly. And then the other thing that works is, you know, being a part of a network. And, you know, if your other shows in your network are mentioning your show, it's kind of the same thing, the promo swap idea. So...

                                      Yeah.

                                      ...Go with people who are already podcast listeners. That's so much easier than trying to tell a Facebook user to go over and subscribe to a podcast. That's my opinion.

                                      I think you're right. I think you're right there. Right. Like it would be, you know, advertising for gym equipment in a gym as opposed to trying to convince the average person on the street, you need to get these dumbbells, you know? And they're like, I don't even work out, dude, like I run.

                                      Yeah, exactly. And leave it to, you know, the collective group of the mainstream media to recruit new listeners, you know, leave it to the famous, the comedian or the whoever to get new listeners and then get them in that ecosystem. And then you find them by collaborating with other podcasters. That's what I've found has worked.

                                      Do you feel like having more and more competition today is a good thing or a bad thing?

                                      I think it's a good thing. I was just talking to one of my employees today about this. It has to be a good thing because I love the free market. Like I love business building, like scrappiness, pivoting, like now, you know, the business is asking something more of us, right? Like I have to find new ways to make it work. And I think that's a good challenge for us. So, it gets me excited.

                                      Well, I think too, you've got to realise that your personality is going to attract a certain audience and they're going to like you for you, right? And there's going to be people who listen to you and for whatever reason, don't like you. But still want to learn, you know, say Australian English, in my case, I'm sure I have loads of listeners.

                                      In fact, the majority probably listen to one episode and they're like, yeah, this guy isn't for me. And they go somewhere else...

                                      I doubt it's the majority.

                                      I don't know, I probably get, I get in front of a lot of people and then I hold on to my main core, right? But it is one of those things where you have to be comfortable just being like, especially with the amount of competition that's out there today.

                                      There are no longer bands that are like, what would you say, the Beatles, where it's just they just dominate everything because there are no- There is no competition, right? And so, nowadays it's much more niche.

                                      And as a result, if you were a band following that analogy, you have to work out as you're doing with these other streams of revenue. You know, I know a band- There's a band called Periphery, and they're a sort of very technical metal band. And they- Everyone loves them because of how good they are.

                                      But they don't make money through selling their music, they make money through programmes that they create, like drumming programmes, through private lessons, through touring and doing the live shows, obviously. So, they have like ten different revenue streams on top of it. They don't actually make money from the songs on, say, Spotify because they know that there's just you're not going to be like Justin Bieber.

                                      The chances of you becoming Cardi B or Justin Bieber, those huge things, it's just almost impossible. So, I think that's the thing. If you're worried, how do I make a huge podcast? You don't have to be huge. You just have to have your core audience that like you and then be offering a service that, you know, they're willing to pay for and that's helping them obviously improve their lives, right?

                                      Yeah, that's so true. I mean, if you want to be the big artist, you know, then just do that as a hobby because you love that. But, you know, it's like, what do you love more? Is it the actual work or is it the building of the company, of the vision? You know? So, figure that out.

                                      Is it the craft or is it the business building that you love more and try to keep that in check? I would say you need to find ways to make it work, you know, if you want to have that freedom, you got to try different things and diversify for sure. Yeah.

                                      Awesome, Lindsay. Well, thank you so much for coming on today. Where can people learn more about you and "All Ears English podcast"?

                                      Sure. Yeah. So, you guys, if you're already, again, if you're already listening to this podcast, if you're listening in Apple podcast or Spotify or wherever you listen, you can just go and type in "All Ear's English podcast" and you'll see the yellow and that's us. Go ahead and hit follow, hit follow on our show.

                                      And then as I said before, Pete, I am starting to offer some very basic mentoring for people who are looking to launch their own podcast so people can email me at Lindsay@AllEarsEnglish.com. That's L-I-N-D-S-A-Y @AllEarsEnglish.com. And we can chat, you can let me know what you're working on and see if I can help at all.

                                      Awesome. Awesome. Well, thanks so much for coming on and hopefully I can get you again on in the future.

                                      Yeah, this has been fun. I always like our chats. Thanks, Pete. I appreciate it.

                                      My pleasure. Thanks, Mate.

                                      Take care.

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                                            The post AE 1147 – Interview: Building an Online Business with Podcasting with Lindsay McMahon appeared first on Aussie English.

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                                            AE 1145 – Interview: Japan, Language Learning, Cringey YouTube Polyglots & More with David Rajaraman – Part 2 https://aussieenglish.com.au/ae-1145-interview-japan-language-learning-cringey-youtube-polyglots-more-with-david-rajaraman-part-2/ https://aussieenglish.com.au/ae-1145-interview-japan-language-learning-cringey-youtube-polyglots-more-with-david-rajaraman-part-2/#respond Wed, 18 May 2022 09:00:00 +0000 https://aussieenglish.com.au/?p=182170 AE 1145 – INTERVIEW Japan, Language Learning, Cringey YouTube Polyglots & More with David Rajaraman – Part 2 Learn Australian…

                                            The post AE 1145 – Interview: Japan, Language Learning, Cringey YouTube Polyglots & More with David Rajaraman – Part 2 appeared first on Aussie English.

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                                            AE 1145 - INTERVIEW

                                            Japan, Language Learning, Cringey YouTube Polyglots & More with David Rajaraman - Part 2

                                            Learn Australian English in each of these episodes of the Aussie English Podcast.

                                            In these Aussie English Interview episodes, I get to chin-wag with different people in and out of Australia!

                                            ae 1145,pete smissen,peter smissen,aussie english podcast,aussie english,australian english,learn australian english,learn english online course,australian podcast,australian podcast host,learn language podcast,learn english podcast,esl podcast,learn esl online,language learning process,language learning tips,language learning routines,youtube polyglots,youtube polyglots fake,david rajaraman,aussie english interviews,life in japan as a foreigner

                                            In today's episode...

                                            Welcome to another awesome chin-wagging episode here on the Aussie English podcast!

                                            Today’s guest is David Rajaraman! Last time, we talked about how he went from India, to Brunei, to Australia, then to Japan, all in just about 30 years of his life

                                            In today’s episode, we talk about how David grew up bilingual then realised that that wasn’t the norm in many places around the world! This seems to be specifically in English speaking countries, where most people are monolingual.

                                            We also talk about cultural differences between Japan and Australia. Like what happens if you lose your wallet in public, or how you’re treated if you have tattoos.

                                            We talk about tight versus loose cultures. Tight, being more conservative and strict, whereas loose cultures are more relaxed and open. We even talk about the Japanese mafia known as the Yakuza.

                                            We talk about the phenomenon of Westerner, YouTube polyglots who are learning foreign languages and native speakers being shocked when they reach an advanced level! But it’s sort of puzzling why, when non-Westerners (i.e. a Chinese guy) learn English to a very advanced level, people don’t seem to mind at all!

                                            Let me know what you think about this episode! Drop me a line at pete@aussieenglish.com.au

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                                            Transcript of AE 1145 - Interview: Japan, Language Learning, Cringey YouTube Polyglots & More with David Rajaraman - Part 2

                                            G'day, you mob. Welcome to this episode of Aussie English. I am your host, Peter Smissen, and today I am bringing you the second half of my interview with David Rajaraman. If you missed the first half, go back and listen to that first so that you'll be up to speed on this one.

                                            Today we go through how David grew up bilingual and when he realised that that wasn't the norm in many places around the world, specifically English speaking countries where most people are monolingual. We talk about cultural differences between Japan and Australia, what happens if you lose your wallet in public or how you're treated if you have tattoos.

                                            We talk about tight versus loose cultures, tight being more conservative and strict, whereas loose cultures are more relaxed and open. We talk about the Japanese mafia known as the Yakuza. We talk about how it can be really strange to see certain races of people speaking specific languages as their native languages. So, say a white person speaking Japanese as their native language, or say a Japanese person speaking Italian or French.

                                            We talk about the phenomenon of Westerner-YouTube-polyglots learning, foreign languages and native speakers being shocked when they reach an advanced level, but that this phenomenon doesn't seem to exist in the reverse. And then lastly, we talk about how Japanese is adopting more and more English words into it, and some are even replacing Japanese words like the word vaccine.

                                            And we compare this to languages like Icelandic, where they're making an effort to do the complete opposite and avoid any kind of assimilation of words from foreign languages. So, with that, guys, I hope you enjoy this episode. I give you David Rajaraman.

                                            There's a pretty big Brazilian community around here, around where I live. I think...

                                            Yeah.

                                            ...There's a lot of them who kind of live near the Toyota factories, and then there's this other area where there's like a big kind of a, you know- What's it called? Like a settlement of them, almost. Just like probably a 20-to-30-minute drive north from where I live. So...

                                            They have a pretty good deal with Brazil, right? Japan. Because effectively what happened was that after the Second World War, they had shitloads of Japanese migrants that went to Brazil. I had no idea about this until I started doing jiu-jitsu. And I remember meeting one of the guys there and I was like, what the fuck? Your- You look Japanese and you're speaking Portuguese to my coach.

                                            And he was like, yeah, I'm Brazilian. And I was just like, does not compute. Like...

                                            Yeah.

                                            ...I remember, this is one of those things that again, for anyone listening who doesn't really understand the context here, I'm being very playful. I have nothing against, you know, Japanese people or Brazilian people of different races. But it was one of these things where when I grew up, you become very, very accustomed to -- in Australia -- the Asians that you meet speak an Asian language.

                                            Or- And or they speak English. And so, when you suddenly meet Asian- People of the Asian race, of an Asian race that speak another European language, it just- Just is so weird. I remember seeing a Japanese actor, an old Japanese actor from the US speaking French in a film once and just being like, my mind is going to explode. Like I just- You just- I have probably seen two people in my life who were Japanese, who could speak French.

                                            You know, it is just such a weird combination. So, I remember just having that moment with the Brazilian guy, but then learning about it. Okay. So, I think Brazil is actually the country that has the most Japanese people in it outside of Japan. And so, they have a deal with Japan where they can send their children back to learn Japanese and learn the culture and everything like that, which I think is really beautiful.

                                            But yeah, I remember I was watching a few of these docos about Brazil and the police, and you just have Asian dudes all over the place with really deep voices speaking in Portuguese like... (Speaks Portuguese) ...And your just like, I just- It just does not look, you know, it's just so weird. It's just so weird getting used to that.

                                            But so, yeah, I don't know, have you met any people of other races in Japan who speak Japanese as their native language? And you're just like, I feel like that would be a very weird thing, too, right?

                                            Yeah, dude, like, this is my first time in Japan. It had been like about eight months or so at the time since I moved and I met this Australian dude, was full weight and he's like- He's just- He looked Australian. He walked Australia.

                                            He- He's- The guy had like this translucent Australian flag hovering above his head and the moment he opened his mouth, like we were on this boat going to an island for like this beach party sort of thing in the summer. And like he just suddenly started speaking Japanese and he sounded like a Japanese person. And then he- And this was like after he and I had been talking in English for a while.

                                            And you had no awareness of the fact that he could speak Japanese really well?

                                            Yeah, no idea. I just thought, like, oh, it's just like another foreigner, dude. Probably here working as an English teacher. And then I digged a little deeper. I was like, dude, you speak Japanese so well. And he's like, yeah, I grew up here. And I was like, what? You grew up here?

                                            And I was like, why did you grow up here? Which is not the sort of question you normally ask someone. But that's all that came out at the time, and...

                                            One: It's such an uncommon experience that you are just inherently curious. Right? Your like, what?

                                            And the story is that his parents were missionaries of a church, and they used to travel a lot. And so, when he was really young, his family moved to Japan and he went to school here and grew up here, so. And I think, like, he's now a naturalised Japanese citizen or something like that or a permanent resident, one of those, and he works in Japan. Like...

                                            That must be such a mind fuck on a daily basis. Right, of just- It must be every single time he opens his mouth with someone who doesn't know who he is and they're Japanese, or even not, right, like yourself. They've come there- It must just be, here comes this interaction again. Like, yes, I'm Japanese. Like, can you please wipe the shock look off your face?

                                            Yeah.

                                            There's been a few of those videos I stumbled across online, and I think it typically always ends up being missionaries or expats who've had kids in foreign Asian countries, and the kids have gone to school locally. There was one, I saw a video with a guy who was- I think he had since come back to or gone back to the US.

                                            But he had grown up for, I think the first 16 years of his life in China, and so spoke Chinese I think as good if not better than his English but looked like me. Right, like was a white Caucasian dude. And it was just so- Again, it was so weird listening to him.

                                            He was getting interviewed in Chinese, but with English subtitles and just being like, there are probably only a handful of people in the world who speak Chinese as well as this guy does as a Caucasian dude. Right? I'm sure there are loads of people who are really fluent in the language, but I doubt they would ever get to the level that he's gotten to because he's gone to school, he's been raised there.

                                            And then there was another one I saw from Thailand, and it was the same thing where he'd learnt Thai for, you know, the first ten years of his life. And you're just like, this is just so weird. And something that I have noticed that I don't really know how to feel about it.

                                            It kind of irritates me to one- Sort of one, respect, but I kind of understand that the other is the YouTube influencer crowd that learn a foreign language to a very high level, often an Asian language like Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and then they constantly do these hot take shock videos where they'll effec-

                                            They'll go into a market and "Matt vs Japan" is a good example. If you want to see someone who's apparently, again, I can't really gauge his Japanese, you'll probably know better than me. But he's renowned for having studied Japanese and he lived there for a very long time and to speak it at a near native level.

                                            I don't know if you'd ever say native, but very, very, very well, so much so that he constantly tricks people when he sneaks up behind them and will be, you know, using Japanese, and they turn around and they'll be like... (shock) ...Like, there's a white guy here. Where did the Japanese dude go? You know? And so, I never know how to feel about those videos because you could never do it in the inverse. Right?

                                            Like if- I can't imagine a Japanese person having learnt Australian English to near native level and then coming to Australia and sneaking up behind me in a market somewhere and being like, you know, g'day mate, have you got any apples? And I'd turn around and there's an Asian guy there, I'd be like, yeah, they're just there. There would be no, wow, that's impressive. It would be like...

                                            Yeah.

                                            ...There's millions of Australians who are Asian that speak English with an Australian accent. Like I- There's no impressive- I can't imagine a Japanese channel on YouTube where the person tried to do that. So, how do you feel about those? Do they kind of impress you? Do they grate on you? Are they kind of the kind of thing where you're kind of like, oh, this is a bit- The Portuguese word for this would be "Tosca".

                                            I think it's kind of like lame, kind of embarrassing or lame or a bit like, daggy.

                                            Is it close to like the word corny?

                                            Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's kind of like, ugh... (Speaks Portuguese). Yeah.

                                            Or cringy or something along those lines.

                                            Yeah. Cringe is a good one, where it just makes you go, ugh.

                                            I've seen those videos, but I guess, like, they kind of lose their novelty after the first, I don't know, three or four takes where like, you know, after he talks to like three or four different people. But you know, when I do come across them and I kind of, I get click baited into clicking them, I do actually enjoy watching them for those- For the first three or four clips.

                                            And yeah, I wouldn't say rubs me the wrong way. But one thing that does come to mind is I'm always thinking like, wow, you know? Like I'm so grateful that I had the opportunity to learn the languages that I did because I realised only now after travelling to all these different places that it was only normal where I grew up to be, you know, bilingual or trilingual. In most of the world, it's actually not normal.

                                            And I think the other- Probably one of the first assumptions that got broken when I first came to Japan is English is not as international language as I thought it was.

                                            As in they need to learn other languages that are as important or more important than English?

                                            No, no, no. I mean, like with English, like, we would often even say this as a marketing kind of line or tactic when we're selling English courses, even here in Japan. It's like, hey, English is this international language. If you learn this language, you can communicate almost anywhere in the world, right? You can go anywhere in the world and still be understood, even where English is not the official language.

                                            And that's true to some extent, but- And everywhere that I've travelled to, that has been the case. India, Singapore, Malaysia. Right? Like you know... (both talking)

                                            Like in the big cities and if you go to the main hotels and everything, but as soon as you step outside of that kind of like, yeah, you're on your own. You need a translator, mate. You need a translator.

                                            Yes. Yeah. But still, at least in those kind of tourist hotspots, you're still going to be able to navigate. Right? And that's not the case here in Japan. First time I came to Japan, and I just assumed that even that people at airports and banks and places like that would be able to speak some English, but or at least communication level English, and no like I just got blank looks when I tried to communicate with them in English.

                                            This guy's Japanese is so bad.

                                            Yeah. So, yeah. And absolutely, like, I think if the roles were switched, if it was like this non-Caucasian looking dude who's trying to prank somebody in an English-speaking country, it just wouldn't work.

                                            Yeah. I never know whether to think it reflects positively on the West or on Western countries like that, because it obviously goes to show this is no- This is not a surprise. This is totally the norm of having people of all different races and backgrounds and languages that speak English or have grown up here.

                                            But also, does it say something about other countries where it's kind of like, it's still not the norm for non-natives to be learning and speaking that language, which is almost sad in a way. You would almost hope that every single country would have a significant number of people interested in going there and learning the country, learning the culture, learning the language, everything like that, right?

                                            Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I mean, these are the kind of guys that I wouldn't like to hang out with much. But I've definitely met certain people when I was in Australia who are like, anybody who comes here, like, ought to speak the language. And to some extent I would agree with that, right? Because that's always been my take. When I go to some country, I make some effort at least to learn the local language there and try and integrate.

                                            But I guess the same is true anywhere, like...

                                            Well, the kind of guys in Australia that will say that are the kind of fuck wits that'll go to Bali, not learn any Indonesian and expect every single person in Bali or Balinese, the language there, to speak English to them. And your kind of like...

                                            Yeah.

                                            ...What world do you live in? You just expect everyone to serve you?

                                            With perfect pronunciation on top of that as well, right? Like it's not enough to even speak basic English. Like, they've got to be- Like, I can't believe he said it that way kind of thing, you know?

                                            Well, and I think they're those kinds of people that are just always going to find a reason to make themselves feel better than others. You know? Like if you were to come in and you're a foreigner and you were trying to say, you know, "g'day, mate" and you had an accent, they'd probably be like, who's this guy?

                                            What are you trying to do? But then out of the other side of their mouth, they'll be like, he needs to learn English and speak like an Aussie.

                                            Yeah.

                                            And you'll just be like, well, what do you want, mate? Like, what are you expecting? Like...

                                            I once got told off for pronouncing 'tomato' as "tomato".

                                            Told off?

                                            Told off. I kid you not. And this was by this dude who was- Who didn't seem to like me very much anyway. He was a manager at this fast-food place that I was working at for not very long.

                                            Yeah.

                                            But he used to give me a hard time about a lot of things, and this was one of them.

                                            I think it's one of those things that probably also stems from American English, where we have like a pet peeve with Americans mispronouncing certain words, or at least again, it's not really mispronunciation if that's their, the way that they pronounce it. But yeah, definitely grinds on you when you'll randomly hear that "tom-ay-to" and you're like, ugh! Do you say "puh-taa-toh" instead of "tuh-maa-toh"?

                                            I mean- Yeah, so it would be like we have "tuh-maa-toh" and "puh-tay-toh" and they kind of reverse. They take "potato" and they have "tomato, potato". But I feel like, yeah, it is one of these things where you just have to get used to it.

                                            Sometimes they'll have- There's a whole- It's weird. The fruit and veggies are one of these things where the words change all over the place. British English will have like, is it aubergine? Or whatever it is. They'll use the French word for "eggplant".

                                            Yeah.

                                            We just call it eggplant. The Americans would call it eggplant. We'll say capsicum or capsicum, and they'll say- What's the one? They'll say pepper.

                                            Green peppers.

                                            Yeah. And I'll be like peppers are hot...

                                            Go to subway.

                                            ...Are hot.

                                            America, they'll ask you if you want some green peppers on that.

                                            Oh, man. The worst is when you hear people say like, jalapenos, can I get some jalapenos? And you'll be like, your fucking-what? It's so funny how you get used to saying it with the Spanish pronunciation, so jalapenos or jalapenos, I think would be the way you would say it. But yeah, some people will just read it phonetically and be like, I'll have some jalapenos and you'd just be like, mate, you are so uncultured. Jesus.

                                            Yeah, yeah. So, bringing it back to Japan, what do you think Japanese people or culture get right? Do you feel like there are some big things there, where your just like, God damn, I wish the rest of the world would do this.

                                            Honesty and integrity. I think they get that right. You can lose anything. You misplace- And any kind of valuable. Necklace, phone, wallet. You'll get it back in one piece with- If it's a wallet with all your cards and your money in it.

                                            Yeah.

                                            And it's just, it's incredible to me. And I'm not talking about the fact that it'll just be left wherever it was that you dropped it. Whoever finds it will go out of their way to take it to the nearest police box, or they'll put it up on a, like on a wall or on a shelf or something where when you come back looking for it, you'll definitely see it.

                                            I think that's kind of a 50/50, a 50/50 thing in Australia. I've had those moments where you would see someone's dropped a wallet and you would, you know, return it to them or give it to someone.

                                            But I have a feeling, I don't know, maybe personally, but maybe broadly speaking, if someone dropped a wallet and there was hundreds of dollars in it, it's the kind of thing where I think they'll probably get the wallet back. But the money would have conveniently disappeared.

                                            Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, it's happened to me a few times, and I'd like- Hey, you know what? I'll be honest, I'm one of those guys where if I did find a wallet on the ground, like I used to be that guy who would kind of see if- Definitely, first of all, open it up.

                                            Yeah.

                                            And I would see if I could find like an ID document or something. If I can't, I'll just keep it. And heck, I even have a wallet here in this room somewhere that I found when I was a school student at my school.

                                            Yeah.

                                            This is way back in Breton. This is like, 15 years ago. I still have it. It's a wallet that I found, I picked up...

                                            You're still looking for the guy. (Both talking)

                                            ...You're just like, yo, I'm just picking it up. I'll keep walking around until I find him. But, you know, in the meantime.

                                            And, you know, I just decided to keep it, you know. But I think now being in this culture, having been somebody who's lost things and found it back in one piece. Like I was at McDonald's about a month ago, there's a fat chunky wallet, definitely stuffed with cards and probably some cash. I didn't even bother to open it up. It was just kind of left on the counter, right where I was sitting.

                                            And at first, I thought, you know, maybe, you know, the person has just gone off to the toilet or gone to place their order and they just left it there to save their seat. Which is a dumb thing to do, but still. And I just kind of like, waited. I looked around and didn't seem like anyone was there, so I picked it up, went to the counter, and I just gave it to staff. And I said, hey, look, I think somebody forgot this.

                                            I don't think I would have done that if I hadn't, you know, experienced being on the receiving end of that kind of kindness and honesty here in Japan.

                                            What do you think that stems from? Like, because it is really interesting when you look at the different Asian cultures and how different they can be, not just from the West but from each other. Like Chinese culture is very different from Japanese culture and that has, at least from my understanding as an outsider, a very, very deep, long history of just the way that their cultures have evolved.

                                            But with Japanese culture, what do you think that stems from? Is that like something that's just been around for thousands of years and it's just a remnant that has just, you know, held up the entire time? Or is it a more recent thing?

                                            I do think it's a remnant of something that's been around really long time. And there's a video that I saw- There's this channel, by the way, that I'd highly recommend checking out. You might already know this guy.

                                            Yeah. Shoot.

                                            It's this Japanese guy who speaks really good English and...

                                            What's the name of it?

                                            I can't remember now.

                                            So, you're just typing into Google "Japanese guy who speaks really good English Youtube channel".

                                            Are you watching my screen or something, man?

                                            That's the kind of thing I would type in. It's so funny how Google is so good at that now, where you'll just type in the key words and phrases and then bam, the first thing that comes up, you're like, damn, nailed it. Google knows.

                                            Yeah. I'm going to send it to you in a link later. But it's this guy. He just does this like kind of talking head videos where he talks about Japanese culture, Japanese history and he goes into real detail into how things that happened a long time ago, like when there were samurais and swords and stuff like that.

                                            Yeah.

                                            How that influenced, you know, some of the cultural norms of today's Japan.

                                            What's the name of the ritual or cultural practise where Japanese soldiers would kill themselves if they failed? Was that "seppuku"?

                                            It's got a few different- It's got a couple of different names. One is "seppuku", and then the other one is "harakiri", which literally means the cutting of the stomach.

                                            Yeah. Because that always fascinated me growing up learning about that. But- And that seems like the pathological side of honour and integrity, right? Where you are literally unwilling to live with shame of having made a mistake. Right. And so, that you need to pay the ultimate price for a mistake that's happened. And I mean, I'm sure it's much more complicated than I'm, you know, laying it out to be.

                                            But it seems like at times Japanese culture seems to have that, if you fail, it is like the biggest dishonour on you imaginable. And that almost feels like a kind of, from the outside world, a bit of a toxic kind of belief system in that extent, to that extent where it's kind of like you should be able to make mistakes and be forgiven. Right?

                                            Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I just found the guy's channel. His name is Shogo.

                                            Shogo.

                                            Yeah. And the name of his channel is "Let's ask Shogo".

                                            Okay.

                                            And he's got this huge channel, but he's got this one playlist titled "Social Problems in Japan".

                                            Yeah. Okay.

                                            And he's got this series of videos on how there are certain... (static) ...Talks about and certain social problems in Japan. And then he tries to kind of link them back to things that have kind of trickled down from Japan's history and the culture many hundreds of years ago.

                                            Yeah. Alright, your going to send me on a deep dive, I think. I'll probably end up binge watching this guy's channel. It always fascinates me, those sorts of things. Another one would be like tattoos. Right. I think potentially the tide is changing and the younger generations are getting more and more accepting of people because of Westerners, probably seeing TV shows where Westerners are covered in Japanese tattoos.

                                            But it is interesting that for so long, I think this was something that was just the- What do they call it, again? It's not the Triads, the- What's the name of the Japanese Mafia? I've had a brainfart.

                                            The Yakuza.

                                            The Yakuza. Yeah. They're the ones that would have the tattoos. Right. And so, anyone who had a tattoo would be associated with them, whether or not they were actually Yakuza, and it would be a big no-no. So, yeah. Is that changing? Do you notice people with tattoos more and more in Japanese culture, or are they almost always foreigners that have come over and you know?

                                            It depends where you go.

                                            Yeah.

                                            So, like Japan has certain cities or parts of cities where you could kind of see them as the equivalent of what are called the ghettos in the US where there's higher gang activity, where there are more broken families and that sort of thing. And kids that grow up there tend to kind of get into that lifestyle themselves. And so, a lot of them, obviously, they'd have tattoos, whether or not they've actually gone into that lifestyle completely.

                                            I mean, even if they haven't straight on joined the Yakuza themselves, just being- Just growing up in that environment, they'd be much- Like, I imagine that tattoos would be a lot more normal to them.

                                            Yeah.

                                            And so, they'd get into that. And then there's also like music artists who are like, you know, Japanese hip hop artists and people, and I think tattoos and hip-hop music tend to kind of go together.

                                            Yeah.

                                            And that sort of thing. So, you'll definitely see tattoos kind of being more prominent in those circles.

                                            Yeah.

                                            But other than that, I think even now the gym that I'm a member at, all the hotels that I've been to, the public baths. They have signs where they explicitly say they will not admit anyone who has tattoos on.

                                            Is the main reason for that, that people who would be going would feel uncomfortable around those people?

                                            I think so.

                                            Is it also somewhat a way of them excluding people from lower classes by doing that?

                                            I wouldn't say lower classes because I mean, if it's the Yakuza, if it's a real Yakuza who have tattoos, they'd have a lot of money to be able to afford those tattoos in the first place.

                                            But surely as well, they're the kind of people that are probably going to be like, fuck your sign.

                                            Yeah.

                                            I'm coming in.

                                            I mean, I think the police have started to become a lot- Probably more willing to take action against the Yakuza in recent years, so.

                                            Yeah.

                                            Like it's illegal to be- Like how do I put it? If you're known to be a member of a criminal group, you basically just can't do normal life in Japan. Like you can't rent an apartment, you can't even open a bank account. There's a lot of things you can't do...

                                            Wouldn't that just push you even further into it.

                                            Yeah, I imagine it would, so. Yeah, it's- And for people who've kind of left that lifestyle and kind of tried to turn a new leaf, they would resort to basically living their entire lives in cash because they still wouldn't be able to have bank accounts, so.

                                            Really? Far out. You get even blocked from all those things. So, is that just from having a criminal record, though, you would have to have been caught doing something? Or do they just look at you and they're like, nah, your part of the Yakuza. We've decided, boom, you've been written down.

                                            It's probably like a combination of those. Like, I think if you're marked permanently with tattoos, all of your body and even your face, in some cases. I think you're not going to have tattoos anywhere visible if you're wearing long sleeved shirts and stuff, if it's like a proper Yakuza tattoo. But let's say if you're, I don't know, like you're into hip hop and you decide to get a face tattoo...

                                            Yeah.

                                            ...Pretty dumb idea if you're planning to have a normal life in Japan. But let's say you did, right, like you're not going to have a bank account.

                                            So, do you see many Yakuza members walking around the streets? Is that a big stereotype from films where that happens or is it just, you know, you never see them around?

                                            Nah, I think it is. I think it's impossible to really identify them.

                                            Yeah.

                                            Because like the way to identify them for sure would be the specific style of tattoos that they have.

                                            The body suits and everything, right?

                                            Yeah. It's like the body suit tattoo. And they would always be hidden if they're wearing normal clothes...

                                            Yeah.

                                            ...And long sleeves, so you're not going to be able to tell. But there was I think one time when I was at this rest stop, it's kind of like a circle on the side of the highway equivalent of that in Australia.

                                            Yeah.

                                            And I was in that rest stop and they usually have a little souvenir outlet, and I was there with my wife and the dude next to me was looking at the souvenirs, he seemed to have- He was wearing a sleeveless t-shirt and he had what appeared to be a Yakuza style tattoo. And I don't know for sure if he was a member of it or if he just thought it looked cool.

                                            Suddenly you start a conversation with him, and he's got an American accent and he's like, oh, no, mate, I just got this tattoo sleeve.

                                            But yeah, I mean, he seemed- He was there with what seemed to be his wife and his kid. So, I don't know, like maybe he was a former member or he's currently a member or he's just thinks it looks cool. I don't know.

                                            What would happen if you were to ask him, "are you in the Yakuza?"

                                            If he wasn't, he would probably take offence at that. If he was, he'd probably just be friendly about it. I don't know.

                                            Oh, really?

                                            Yeah. Or I don't know, maybe he wouldn't want me to bring attention to it. But then again, he's got his tattoo out for everyone to see, so. I don't know.

                                            Yeah.

                                            No idea.

                                            See, these are the kinds of things that if I think if I was in Japan, I would have no idea about the cultural sensitivities around. I would just be like, hey, man, Yakuza? And Pete didn't come back to Australia. Yeah.

                                            I was at the very least tempted to say nice tattoo, because I do...

                                            You open the door. You open the door to the conversation. Well, you know that I'm in the Yakuza, so that's why.

                                            I mean, I've always wanted a tattoo of my own. I don't have any.

                                            Yeah.

                                            But when I was growing up, I was always thinking to myself, man, when I become an adult and I'm independent, I want to get a tattoo, just because I used to think it looked cool. I still do. I can really appreciate a well-done tattoo, but...

                                            The problem now is that everyone's got them. So, it's no longer kind of, you know, you're almost conforming to the crowd if you now get a tattoo because pretty much everyone goes through that rite of passage the moment they turn 18, right? They'll get something that they'll regret later on.

                                            Even I've got one on my wrist and that's it. And I'm just almost like, I might get it removed because it just doesn't mean anything to me anymore. I don't really care and almost- It's almost now because it's less common to see people with no tattoos that you're kind of like, I wish I had no tattoos so that I could now not be in the herd, the sheep herd. Right?

                                            Do you see many people in Japan, if they do have tattoos with English tattoos? Like there's that trope in the Western world where people always seem to get Asian tattoos, whether or not they have any connections with, you know, Japanese culture or Chinese culture.

                                            And I think it's probably because the characters from these languages like Japanese and Chinese characters, are so beautiful that people would much more readily put them on their skin than, say, English writing. Although you know, I'm sure loads of people have English writing in the western world, too, as tattoos. But do you- One: Do you notice any Japanese people with English tattoos where they don't speak English?

                                            And two: Is English writing ever sort of seen as beautiful itself? Or is it just sort of like, eh?

                                            You know, there's a word for that in Japan.

                                            I think- I can't remember if this is correct, but I think it's called... (Speaks Japanese) ...Or- Which means "decoration English" or "English for decoration". And it just- That's just this kind of category of- It's categorically describing English that is used purely just because it looks fancy, and not necessarily because there's any real purpose behind it or because the people who are using it even understand what it means.

                                            And I think that happens- It happens with food packaging, product packaging, signage, pamphlets, brochures, and it definitely happens with tattoos as well.

                                            Is it because it carries a certain level of prestige?

                                            I think it's- I'm not- I don't- I'm not really sure because I don't get it myself. Like, I don't think it necessarily looks cool. It's pretty normal to me. I think it grabs my attention when the English is weird, and I can have a bit of a chuckle.

                                            Yeah.

                                            Right.

                                            They did that intentionally on posters.

                                            And it makes those posters or those products more memorable because I remember laughing at the weird English always was on them. But other than that, I don't really get what the appeal is. But I imagine that it's going to be similar to how we as English speakers find, you know, Japanese or Chinese characters attractive or interesting.

                                            Yeah. Is Japanese as a language getting infiltrated more and more with English? Because I've heard of this a few times where not necessarily just with Japane- I think Hindi is another really common example where it's becoming "Hinglish", where there are so many English words now entering the language that the average Indian Hindi speaker now no longer speaks pure Hindi and could not communicate properly if they were to only use Hindi because they rely on so many words and expressions and concepts that come from English.

                                            I've heard that that's happening in Japanese as well, where I don't know if it's like all new things get- The English word just comes over and gets given Japanese pronunciation, or if it's becoming trendy to just use English in certain contexts and certain expressions. What's it kind of like on the ground there in Japan for you, who's learnt Japanese as a foreign language?

                                            I think the perfect example of that has been like the words that are being used in regard- When discussing anything related to COVID.

                                            Of course. So, words like "social distance, vaccine", there are equivalent terms for this in Japanese...

                                            Yeah.

                                            ...That mean exactly the same thing, but they're just very rarely used. Instead, we often hear even in the news, we hear "social distance and vaccine or vaccine", right, which is, you know, the word vaccine that's being pronounced with the Japanese- In the Japanese way. Because when you spell it out in Japanese, that's how you'd- You'd have to write it.

                                            Yeah.

                                            And if- I think there's some- It makes a little bit more sense in Japanese. Or I think it makes a little bit more sense when with what you see in Hindi because the same is true with my mother tongue, in Tamil. There's so many words that where we just import the English word because there is no equivalent in Tamil for it.

                                            Yeah.

                                            And...

                                            ...That'd be like COVID, right? You're not going to be like, okay, so we need to come up with "Corona virus" in Tamil and then we need to abbreviate it to create our own version of COVID-19. You would just be like, just take COVID and use it. Just pronounce it how we would with the phonemes that you've got in Tamil.

                                            Right. Exactly, yeah. And say for example- I mean, my dad was an engineering lecturer and he and I, we would have conversations about English and Tamil all the time. And he was one of those guys that as a hobby, he was really into kind of just analysing the differences between languages and he'd tend to think out loud every once in a while. So, maybe some of that rubbed off on me.

                                            But he'd always talk about like, hey, you know how we have this word in English? Do you know what the word for that is? I'll be like, no. Because- Yeah, because there is no word for it. Okay. What's the point? Where are you going with this? But that was just the entire conversation, he just wanted to get that off his mind.

                                            I think the same is true for Hindi, but with Japanese it's interesting how they actually have Japanese words for even like really scientific technical words in English. And so, if they wanted to and they definitely can use entirely Japanese words for everything. But I guess they just choose not to in some cases, I'm not really sure why.

                                            Well, that is what interests me so much, right. Because I was learning a little bit of Icelandic back in the day just because I had a really deep interest in the closest language that's still spoken that is what the Vikings used to speak. Right. So, Old Norse was the language in that later became Swedish, Norwegian, Danish and Icelandic.

                                            But Icelandic maintains a lot of the complexity and the grammar that Old Norse had, whereas Swedish, Danish and Norwegian has become much easier. They got rid of a lot of the more complicated grammar. But Icelandic has made a conscious effort to remove any foreign words from their language.

                                            And when they want to use- When they want to come up with a word for, say, COVID or TV or, you know, automobile, they will dive into the sagas, their books from the Viking Times and try and draw out vocab that's no longer used, although they'll find some way of kind of explaining what it is, like picture screen or something instead of television.

                                            So, it always really interests me how there's obviously no individual person who ever decides, okay, we're going to import a shitload of words from English into our language now and it's cool. Or here, we're going to just absolutely make sure zero foreign words ever come into our language because that's cool.

                                            So, it is all almost- It's just really fascinating to work out what the kind of social agreement is and becomes and why some languages like obviously Japanese and Hindi find it really appealing, whatever the reason is for using foreign words, and they'll then end up down this sort of slippery slope and just keep bringing them in. And I imagine it's typically nouns that they're going to be just importing shitloads of words for.

                                            It's probably not going to replace things like verbs or grammar, more complicated grammar. But as someone who likes learning foreign languages, it's almost something I really don't want to encounter. Like, I hate when I'll be speaking Portuguese and I'll be like, Kel, how do I say "milkshake"? And she would just be like, milkshake. Or I'll be like, how do I say, you know, "personal trainer"? And she'll be like, personal trainer.

                                            And I'll be like, God damn it, you're just putting a Brazilian accent on top of the English version of these things. And she's like, that's what we use. We never came up with our own or you know, it was just too much effort.

                                            I'm like, but you have the words "personal and trainer" in Portuguese. Did you not think that you could just put those two together? So, I always find that just endlessly fascinating. But when I learn a foreign language, when I'm learning Portuguese, I'm always like, oh, damn it.

                                            It's another one of those things where I have to remember, okay, I need to use the English word, but put on an accent because it sounds weird if I'm speaking Portuguese and suddenly say milkshake with an Australian accent or something.

                                            Yeah, yeah. That's actually the one time that people- That I get kind of caught out by my colleagues at work because...

                                            Your mispronouncing English words with no Japanese accent.

                                            Exactly. Exactly. Like I often get complimented on my Japanese. And more so recently, like when I was doing this kind of phone interview sort of thing, the dude who did the interview, he was like, so how long have you been in Japan? When I told them, like, he didn't believe me. Like he thought that I'd actually been here for much longer. And he just said, look, your Japanese sounds really good. And I thanked him for it. Right.

                                            But when I'm at work and like when I say- I can't remember what it was. But I said something the other day and like my boss, he just straight away, he just started like teasing me by imitating my accent, which is saying the English word, the normal English way. Right. And he was like trying to- He's trying to mimic the way I pronounced it.

                                            And you're just like, no, mate, you're mispronouncing it. This was originally English. You're the one mispronouncing it. And he's like, no, you are.

                                            So, that happens to me a lot, actually.

                                            Far out. Mate, I think we've gone for an hour and a half, so I'm aware of your time. Thanks so much for coming on. I really appreciate it. We've got to keep chatting about this sort of stuff in the future because I- Yeah. It is just endlessly fascinating, this sort of the differences between cultures, seeing one culture from the outside as someone who's migrated there and getting a window into it.

                                            And that's what I hope, I guess that the Japanese listeners here get out of this, I hope they haven't been offended by any of this sort of commentary from, you know, the outside in. But hopefully they found it really interesting to learn a bit about, yeah, how people who aren't originally Japanese see Japanese culture.

                                            Because I always love having these conversations with people who move to Australia. One of the first things I ask is like, what do we do that's weird? Like, what do you guys see when you come here? What's the first thing that you come across and you're like, "Goddamn, that is so strange"?

                                            So, you know, my wife would be like, arriving on time to things. She's like, anyone who does that in Brazil is seen as a massive weirdo. I'm like, wow, I thought it was just politeness. Anyway, David, thanks for coming on. Where can people find out more about you and what you do?

                                            "SpeakLikeDavid" on tiktok or speaklikeDavid.com. And a new project I'm working on, it's called "WizardofBoss.com. It's probably not up and live yet, but you'll see more of that coming later this year.

                                            Any teaser there about what's going to happen with that? Is that related to English or is that something completely different?

                                            It's not related to English. It's going to be stuff related to marketing, copywriting, stuff like that.

                                            Awesome.

                                            Yeah...

                                            And what was the URL again? Give us another plug.

                                            Sure. WizardofBoss.com. It's like Wizard of Oz, but it's a play on words.

                                            Gotcha.

                                            WizardofBoss.com. And for what I'm doing right now, with cars and my motorbike, I'm on YouTube "Tach on red".

                                            Man, you're an animal. How do you find time for all this?

                                            I don't.

                                            The truth. The truth. Awesome, dude. Well, thank you so much. And I'm looking forward to chatting to you again about this stuff in the future.

                                            Yeah. Thank you so much for having me, Pete. You have a great day. Great week.

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                                                  The post AE 1145 – Interview: Japan, Language Learning, Cringey YouTube Polyglots & More with David Rajaraman – Part 2 appeared first on Aussie English.

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                                                  AE 1143 – Interview: English Teacher to Car Mechanic in Japan with David Rajaraman – Part 1 https://aussieenglish.com.au/ae-1143-interview-english-teacher-to-car-mechanic-in-japan-with-david-rajaraman-part-1/ https://aussieenglish.com.au/ae-1143-interview-english-teacher-to-car-mechanic-in-japan-with-david-rajaraman-part-1/#respond Wed, 11 May 2022 09:00:00 +0000 https://aussieenglish.com.au/?p=181883 AE 1143 – INTERVIEW English Teacher to Car Mechanic in Japan with David Rajaraman – Part 1 Learn Australian English…

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                                                  AE 1143 - INTERVIEW

                                                  English Teacher to Car Mechanic in Japan with David Rajaraman - Part 1

                                                  Learn Australian English in each of these episodes of the Aussie English Podcast.

                                                  In these Aussie English Interview episodes, I get to chin-wag with different people in and out of Australia!

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                                                  In today's episode...

                                                  Welcome to another awesome chin-wagging episode here on the Aussie English podcast!

                                                  Today’s guest is David Rajaraman! During our last conversation, we talked about how he went from India to Brunei, to Australia, and ultimately to Japan in just about 30 years.

                                                  In the first part of this two part series, we’re going to chat to David about how he went from an English teacher to working as a car mechanic in Japan, what it’s like working as a foreigner in Japan. What it’s like working with Japanese people at Japanese companies and applying for jobs at Japanese companies as a foreigner. You know, life as an international citizen. 

                                                  We also talk about Japanese culture as a foreigner and how to integrate into Japanese culture; like, the good versus the strange aspects of Japanese culture as a foreigner. 

                                                  Also, we talk about what it’s like being married to foreigners. David and I sort of share our battle stories of both of us being married to a Japanese person and a Brazilian person respectively, and sort of the nuances that go on at home with our cultural differences and linguistic differences.

                                                  Let me know what you think about this episode! Drop me a line at pete@aussieenglish.com.au

                                                   

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                                                  Transcript of AE 1143 - Interview: English Teacher to Car Mechanic in Japan with David Rajaraman | Part 1

                                                  G'day, you mob. Welcome to this episode of Aussie English. I am your host, Peter Smissen, and it is my pleasure today to bring you an interview with David Rajaraman. Now, David was on the podcast all the way back in episode 934. So, if you haven't listened to that episode, go and check it out before listening to this one, so that you can catch up and be up to date on where things are at with him.

                                                  Today, in the first part of this two-part series, we're going to chat to David about how he went from an English teacher to working as a car mechanic in Japan. What it's like working as a foreigner in Japan and in Japanese. He uses the Japanese language on a daily basis. You know, what it's like working with Japanese people, at Japanese companies, applying for jobs at Japanese companies as a foreigner, life as an international citizen.

                                                  David was born in India but was then raised in Brunei and has studied and lived in many other countries, including Australia. After that, we'll talk about Japanese culture as a foreigner and trying to integrate into Japanese culture. The good versus the strange aspects of Japanese culture as a foreigner. Internal and external expectations of the usage of your second language when you reach really, really high levels in that language.

                                                  What it's like being married to foreigners. David and I sort of share our battle stories of both of us being married to a Japanese person and a Brazilian person respectively, and sort of the nuances that go on at home with our cultural differences and linguistic differences. And we talk about much, much more. So, without any further ado, guys, I give you David Rajaraman.

                                                  David G'day. How's it going, mate?

                                                  Great. It's been a nice morning for me. How about you? How are you doing?

                                                  I'm good. I'm good. It's about- What is it? Almost 1:00. So, we're early. We started early. But, yeah, chugging along. Chugging along. Been okay. Man, it's so funny. That background is so good. I'm like, is that his actual background? And then I realised I'm like, he's kind of- It's funny, you can sort of realise this in Zoom where the backgrounds better quality than the image of the person.

                                                  Yeah.

                                                  You're like, oh, nah, that can't be. There's no way.

                                                  Yeah, yeah. This is the background that I'm aspiring to, one day.

                                                  A nice little bonsai over the left shoulder there, too.

                                                  Yep, yep.

                                                  Mate, so I wanted to get you back on just to obviously have a chinwag. We caught up on Instagram recently, so I thought it would be cool to just hang out. You're living a very different life from me at the moment, obviously. So, for a bit of background, do you want to tell the listeners where you currently are, you know, what you're doing, everything like that?

                                                  Sure. So, hi everyone. My name is David. I live in Japan right now. Nagoya is the name of the city where I live. It's known for being home to the world's well most well-known car company, the Toyota Motor Company. Their factory and a lot of their subsidiaries, factories are kind of not too far from here. Like, they're scattered around this area. And I currently work as a car mechanic.

                                                  Well, "car mechanic" at a used car dealership, about a 15-minute drive away from me. Yeah.

                                                  So, why did you say "car mechanic" with quote unquotes on the end? For people listening, obviously, we do that in English when it's kind of like, you'll say something is a certain way or you would describe it a certain way, but it's not. And so, you make that signal, right...?

                                                  Yeah.

                                                  ...Oh, yeah. Like I'm a "doctor". I have a PhD, but I don't really consider myself a "doctor", you know?

                                                  Yeah. Yeah. So, it's funny how it all started. I was working at this- At the main distributor for Daihatsu vehicles in this state and I was just, I was in their project management team for one of their overseas projects. I was doing that for like a year and a half.

                                                  I got into it initially without really knowing what I'd actually be doing at the company. I just thought, hey, I'm teaching English now. I've always wanted to work with cars, so this is an opportunity I don't want to pass up.

                                                  And so, I joined that company and then it just felt like I was back in university again because most of what I was doing was just sitting in front of a computer typing up these, like, you know, these book long reports. And I thought, no, what I really want to be doing is, is tinkering on cars. And that's, you know, that's what I've loved for as long as I can remember. And so, I quit, and I just started looking for jobs online.

                                                  And I found this car shop, this car dealership. And like, I knew of them because when I was shopping around for my car a year and a half ago, I did come across them and I knew they weren't too far from where I lived. I ended up buying my car from a different place, though. And they specialise in sports cars. That's kind of all they sell. I thought, yeah, this has got to be fun. And I saw their job listing, which said "no experience required"...

                                                  Done!

                                                  ...And I thought, hmm. You know, I got no- Well, I've got more experience than the absolute noob because I at least know how to work on my own car. And so, I applied, went for the interview. And basically, what I originally applied for was for working as a body repair tech. And that's because, as far as I'm concerned, I think being a mechanic is mostly just loosening and tightening bolts and nuts and exchanging parts.

                                                  You're not actually- I don't think it actually requires a university education to be able to do it. And that's not a very nice thing to say to mechanics, but hey, you know. Whereas I think doing body repairs is a little bit- I think it requires a lot more skill that's acquired through experience. And I thought, yeah, I can learn to be a mechanic on my own. Like, I don't think I can teach myself body repairs, at least to do it really well.

                                                  Why do you think that body repairs is much more, by the sounds of it, complicated than being a mechanic? Is it that there's a lot more, I don't know, creativity or that the variables are more complicated? You can't just put one part in, take another part out. You actually have to be using your hands or changing things based on your intuition and education and everything like that. Is that the main reason?

                                                  Exactly. Yeah. So, like, take, for example, like a car that's been in a crash.

                                                  Yeah.

                                                  Your job as a body repair tech is you've got to straighten that chassis out to being as close as possible to what it was before the crash. At the very least, when you finish your repairs on it, the customer shouldn't be able to tell that it was in a crash. At the very least, even if it's kind of slightly off-centre underneath and stuff.

                                                  So, I think it's a bit more of an art form, requires a keen eye, an eye for detail. You're not necessarily measuring everything. There is a subjective element to it.

                                                  I imagine, too, that there's a lot of ramifications with safety if you get it wrong too, right? Like I imagine you've got to do a pretty good job and understand what you're doing for safety's sake. Whereas I imagine there's that aspect for mechanics, too, you know, if they set up things the wrong way inside of a car.

                                                  But I again, as a layman, I would imagine that it's a little harder for you to screw the car up accidentally, whereas if you don't straighten the chassis out completely, I imagine that there are like, you know, those sorts of issues you're going to potentially lead to that car having massive problems down the track that can't just be fixed by going to a mechanic.

                                                  Yeah, yeah. Or at the very least, the customer's going to feel something different, something's off.

                                                  Yeah.

                                                  Like it's going to be pulling to one side, that sort of thing. You know?

                                                  Yeah.

                                                  But yeah. Anyways, I went for the interview and basically what I was told is, look, I know you've been tinkering on your own car for years, but what we really need you to do is learn how to be a professional level mechanic before we're going to let you do body repairs. I was like, you know, if I can eventually get to body repairs and if this also means I can get a mechanics licence through the, like, the work experience requirement, why not?

                                                  That's a pretty good deal. It's better than going to school and paying for it. And so, I joined. And then later on, what I found out was they had just lost one of their mechanics who just quit unexpectedly, and they desperately needed somebody to fill that spot. And so, what they'd done is they had another mechanic who actually had a licence and they kind of promoted him from like the car wash dude to doing more mechanical work.

                                                  And then I was like the car wash dude. And what happened is that guy who had just recently been promoted, he abruptly quit. And so, they needed somebody to do what he was doing. And so, they got me to do a lot of those, like, mechanical stuff. So, I was doing actual mechanics work for about three months, and they got this new guy to be like the car wash dude, but he quit and then so did another guy.

                                                  Why are all these people quitting, David?

                                                  It's not- Well, they've got a high rate of people quitting.

                                                  By the sounds of it.

                                                  Yeah. And so, when that guy quit, like the new guy that they hired was actually a licenced mechanic who used to work at another dealership. And so, they got him to do all the mechanical stuff, and they demoted me back to being the car wash dude.

                                                  It's been that way for like six months. And I thought, well, if none of this experience would actually qualify, so if I went right now to go and take the- So, I've been working there for almost a year. If I was to go and take the test to get my mechanics licence, none of this experience would qualify for being sufficient. They'd be like, you haven't actually been a mechanic for a year, so.

                                                  Yeah.

                                                  So, we're not going to give you your licence. But man, I've been screwed around and it's a terrible feeling.

                                                  Is that- What's their reasoning? Is it that you don't have enough experience for them- I mean they seem to put you in there though, when they don't have anyone. Right. So, what would the reasoning be for just dicking you around like that?

                                                  I think it's been like a combination of things. I definitely do think there's a trust issue.

                                                  Yeah.

                                                  Because I don't have a licence. Like, I don't have a formal education. I'm not out of a trade school or any of that. So, I think that is one aspect of it. There's no objective way that they can gauge how much I know and how much I don't know. And the guy that used to be, like, the head mechanic who's been there for seven years, he left to go and start up his own workshop or actually take over his dad's workshop.

                                                  And he was just this weird guy who's like super old school with a lot of his outlook on life and the world. He just assumed that I knew absolutely nothing and that I was absolute shit at everything I did, even when I was actually doing things just completely fine, you know? So, like the business owners- Like, I think his evaluation of me and my work was largely based on what that previous head mechanic would just tell him.

                                                  And so, yeah, it kind of sucks. Like one example is, I think the business owner had the impression that I had no idea what I was doing when it came to car electrics, electronics and stuff and about how the circuits work and that. And the weird thing is that when this newer mechanic who's licenced joined, he actually had no idea.

                                                  And whenever he was tasked with installing like a navigation system or speakers or sound system, he'd always come and ask me, and I'd be teaching him. I'd be like, hey, this wire does this, and this is how you're supposed to connect this. And that's what it's going to do.

                                                  And so, like, you know, here I am teaching the guy who's got the licence. Like I understand enough to be able to do that, and yet they think it's the other way around. And it's kind of hard, I guess, to change that perception. If I don't- If I'm not licenced, I don't really blame him.

                                                  Is this more about then what's on paper than what you're actually capable of that matters?

                                                  Yeah. I wouldn't say so. I think it's just a matter of them being such a small operation, which has just so few people. They don't actually have a system in place for accurately evaluating what I can do and can't do. So, it's- I think it's a combination of things. One, is that I don't have the piece of paper.

                                                  And on top of that, they don't have a way of- They haven't bothered to figure out a way of actually evaluating what I can and can't do.

                                                  Yeah, I feel like it's one of those things, though, you'd work this out if you're working in a team, right? You would just be like, David, do your thing. And when you run into trouble, communicate with the team and let us know where you're running into trouble. And then within a few weeks, you would imagine they'd get a pretty good picture of what you can handle and what you can't handle, especially if your work is being checked. Right?

                                                  You're not just- David's taking care of this car for our client and no one's checking his work and then it's just going out to the client. And David was also just saying he can do everything and so we're going to trust it. You'd be like, surely you have your checks and balances in there to verify what he's actually capable of and you can come to a conclusion pretty quickly. But yeah, annoying.

                                                  So, did you end up leaving this place and you're applying for another job now, right?

                                                  I haven't left yet. I'm still working there, and I don't plan on submitting my resignation letter till I have another job to go to. So, I have applied for this new position. It's also for a body repair tech. And this time it's not at a car dealership, it's actually this company that operates like a network of rental vehicles and car sharing stuff. And they've got coin parking lots and things like that as well across the country.

                                                  So, they have like their own body repair workshop for their fleet and it's for a position there, and it specifically says "no experience required" like we're actually- But this time it doesn't...

                                                  It's a trap. It's a trap.

                                                  I mean, I'm not really going to know for sure until I actually start working there, right. But at least they say that they'll- They've got a training system in place for new techs, so. Yeah. And their- In terms of like their working conditions, their working hours, the number of holidays and stuff, they seem like they care about their stuff.

                                                  Well, that's always a good place to start. Well, I hope you get it. And yeah, hopefully no one at the current company is learning English or Australian English who've come across this and be like, I recognise that guy. So, I guess I wanted to get you on the podcast besides obviously catching up and just shooting the breeze. Living in Japan. How long have you been there now?

                                                  It's been five years in total. Three years this time, like, it's my second time here.

                                                  Okay, so you had a break in between, did you?

                                                  Yeah. Yeah, I was in Malaysia for four years in between.

                                                  Okay. And so, yeah, I guess I wanted to get you on to sort of talk about what life is like there, working there, everything, have an update for the previous episode. I think that was episode 934, if my memory serves me correctly. I was looking at it this morning, I can't actually remember episodes like that. But yeah, so Japanese people, I think- Japan is the country that listens to my podcast the most outside of Australia.

                                                  So, I thought it would be cool to chat to you about getting a job there as well and working for Japanese people. Because I think the majority of people I come across who live in Japan, it's related to English teaching and typically I think some of them may learn Japanese to a sort of rudimentary level where they can communicate a little bit.

                                                  But I don't think they ever really get like a job in a Japanese company, and they have to deal with the language, the culture there, because I know that the working environment is very different from how it is elsewhere in the world. You've obviously got a really interesting background too. Do you want to quickly recap where you're originally from and the countries that you've sort of passed through as well?

                                                  Yeah, sure. So, I'm Indian. I was born and raised in Brunei, went to university in Australia and worked there a little bit as well while I was a student. Then, yeah, worked here in Japan, I was a student in Malaysia as well for four years and now I'm back here in Japan.

                                                  Animal. Animal. I think we were talking about this last time, and I was kind of like, where do you feel like you belong, right? Like where is your home country? Because that must be such an interesting life to have lived. Right. So, do you feel at home anywhere in the world, like even if it's a specific place? Or do you feel like it's you're more of a global citizen as a result of that?

                                                  I wouldn't say I feel like a global citizen, but I know for a fact that when I was in Australia it felt more like home than any other place that I've been. And I've put that down largely to just the Australian people and their culture. I think it's a really welcoming place for anyone, and I think it's not because I'm very Australian. I don't sound Australian.

                                                  Well, I guess it depends on how you define that. Right?

                                                  Yeah.

                                                  When you go to Melbourne you are very Australian. Right. Like if I was walking... Well, you know what I mean where if you go to Melbourne or to Sydney or to Brisbane and you walk around the CBD, it's more likely than not, at least in Melbourne when I was there at Uni, it's more likely than not you're going to encounter someone speaking a foreign language who can speak English but is speaking a foreign language and is of a different race.

                                                  And so, you know, your background is effectively the- What would you say? It's sort of like what Melbourne and those large migrant populations now in Australia are kind of characterised by. It's the fact that you were born elsewhere, you do potentially speak another language as a native language. It's almost like the wasps, right?

                                                  The white Anglo-Saxon Protestant Westerners are kind of becoming the minority now in Australia, which is, you know, good and bad, depending on what your view is. But I definitely love that aspect of- I keep saying this to my listeners all the time. I love the fact that Australia is somewhere that you can come. Don't speak English. Learn English. Get your visa permanent residency. Get your citizenship. Get a passport.

                                                  And you're effectively as Australian as I am. You may not have the accent, but for all intents and purposes, you're Australian now, right. And this was that interesting thing I think we touched on last time, but I can't remember. We can talk about it now. Having gone from there, like living in Australia and thinking Australia felt like home then and going somewhere like Japan where the culture is completely different, right.

                                                  And it is much more homogenous. They have a very strong racial, ethnic language, linguistic identity, like China, like Korea. Was that a kind of real shock to the system when you came from such a diverse country that had migrants everywhere who can integrate and become Australian as much as anyone else?

                                                  And you go to a country where I think, again, correct me if I'm wrong, but even if you were to become Japanese as a citizen or whatever, culturally, you're probably going to be seen as a foreigner for the rest of your life, right? There's no, you're as Japanese as me.

                                                  Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I don't think- There is a growing migrant population here in Japan. It's just a lot of international students moving here from like Vietnam, Philippines, China. But I think still even for people- There's probably documentaries about this on on YouTube. Even for people who are like, say, half Japanese, half someone else and who are born and raised in Japan.

                                                  Yeah.

                                                  Everything they know is Japan and Japanese. Right. Even they aren't fully. The way they're treated isn't such that they're fully accepted as true Japanese people, even though if the circumstances were exactly the same in Australia, they would be, right. And so, I think Japan as a whole just isn't- Hasn't gotten used to the idea of people who look different or sound slightly different and we can still be Japanese.

                                                  And I think tied in with that as well as a lot of the etiquette and the cultural norms that everyone is just kind of expected to conform to. So, even if you deviate slightly from that, it's not a case of, oh, you're different and unique, and that's okay. It's oh, you're doing something that's not Japanese.

                                                  Yeah, it is such an interesting thing, right. Because first, I guess I'm thinking, oh, well, the main reason that's different between Australia and Japan is Australia, at least modern Australia, you know, prior to- I mean post the colonisation of Australia is very young, we're only 230 years old, right, as a nation. Whereas Japan's got thousands of years of history.

                                                  And I think it's- Unlike the colonisation history where people from all over the place came all at once. And so, there was no -- apart from the indigenous people -- there was no kind of like one race, although, I guess you could make the argument that originally it was the white people from the United Kingdom, although there was a lot of hatred there for the Irish and the Scottish and everything like that.

                                                  But Japan has had this somewhat more consistent racial and linguistic heritage where Australia pretty quickly became very, very, very diverse. Right. Especially throughout the 18th and 19th- 19th and 20th century after the wars and everything, and we had massive amounts of migrants come in. But then it's interesting to think, I guess about the UK.

                                                  The UK probably arguably has a similar sort of history where it's been there for thousands of years with white people from the UK living there. But it's experienced huge amounts of migration to the point now where I feel, again, I've never been there.

                                                  But as someone who knows a lot of British people, it seems like, you know, someone like yourself who didn't grow up there, wasn't born there, could move there and could get a passport, get a visa and boom, you know, become a citizen and your British like, you know, every other Brit.

                                                  Whereas it is interesting that countries, I guess like Japan and, you know, the most extreme example is probably China, where there's just no real history of large-scale migration. And so, they're not used to that idea of having many different races and many different languages and everyone still belonging to the same country.

                                                  Yeah.

                                                  So, was that something that was kind of difficult to get used to when you came there from Australia? Was it off putting or did you sort of get into the flow of it pretty quickly?

                                                  I wouldn't say it was off putting. It did feel lonely in the beginning because- And I think a big part of that was just not being able to communicate.

                                                  Yeah.

                                                  You know, having certain things that you want to express and just not being able to was a big part of that. And to the point that on my first holiday, so when I moved, my first time I moved to Japan, it was from Singapore. My brother is Singaporean now, a naturalised Singaporean and I was living with him for a few months just filling the gap between university and work in Japan.

                                                  And on my first holiday, I had a week off and instead of travelling around Japan, which is what most people would do, I got on a plane and went to Singapore at the place that I've been to tons of times where nothing is new to me. But I had to go there just because I felt so homesick.

                                                  And, you know, my brother was just like, why are you here? Those were literally his words. The first thing that he asked me after greeting me, he's like, why are you here?

                                                  Do you need money?

                                                  And I had to explain, I just said, look, I just felt lonely. And he was like, oh, okay. Well, that makes sense.

                                                  That sounds like something, though, that Japanese people are struggling with today, again, from the outside. But I keep hearing from Japanese people, I keep seeing news reports or news stories from journalists, and I also see the odd documentary coming up here and there that they have an epidemic of loneliness that's sort of creeping in.

                                                  Again, this is probably happening worldwide to some extent, I think, with social media, and then the way that things are, I think people, ironically, despite being more connected than we've ever been, feel like we have less close relationships than we had in the past. So, what is the experience like in Japan with that?

                                                  Does the average Japanese person that you would interact with sort of worry about those sorts of things, experience them or know people who experience them? One example that I came to- My mum told me the other day, she watched this doco about, I think it's mainly young men who just cut themselves off from the world and then play video games all day at home.

                                                  And their parents' kind of allow this lifestyle to continue, but then also don't talk about them, like they kind of sweep it under the rug and keep it quiet. And I found that really, really interesting. I think there are those sorts of people here in Australia, but nowhere near a million of them.

                                                  Yeah. I think it's- I don't know. There's this- I'm sure there's one little thing that I've noticed as a non-Japanese person here. I feel like there are a lot more people here than I've seen anywhere else in the world who talk to themselves and where that sort of behaviour is completely normal, like talk to themselves out loud and that's completely like normal, accepted.

                                                  Like, nobody's going to kind of look at them and go, oh, that's unusual. It's...

                                                  What context? Like whilst having coffee with friends or walking in the street or at home by themselves? Like, when does that sort of thing...?

                                                  Not necessarily when they're with other people, because then they've actually got someone to talk to. But like- Like you could be just out in the grocery store, right. Or like in the car park or something. And this dude would get out of the car and just be like, oh, man, it's hot. And I can understand like, yes, it is hot. It's a hot day. Yeah, we all get it. But like, who are you talking to, though?

                                                  It's not like he's coming up to me and be like- And being friendly and saying, hot day today, isn't it? It's more like, oh, man, it's hot.

                                                  I had- Again, hopefully no one calls the race card on me and starts, you know, trying to shame me. But my instant reaction there was, is he African American? Because they seem- They're- Culturally African Americans, at least again from TV shows, the ones that I know from movies are really extroverted, you know, as a kind of stereotype. Right.

                                                  And so, you will get those people who enter a room or are just around and they'll be like, "goddamn", you know, out loud. So, that everyone kind of hears them and sees them. And it's such a really cool part of their kind of cultural behaviour that, yeah, I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that myself, you know, just walking outside- Unless I had friends around me and I was kind of, again, yeah, talking to them.

                                                  I wouldn't do it on my own, right. But...

                                                  Yeah.

                                                  So, you reckon- Is that something you've noticed increase, or you just notice that as a cultural difference that people will be, I guess speak aloud when they're on their own more frequently?

                                                  I just think it might be like a cultural difference. And at the same time, it does have me wondering, like, is it because people here are, I guess, just feel more lonely? Like they've got- They're just not able to express a lot of their inner thoughts. I think in addition to that, like you're expected to always put on this kind of outward appearance of everything's good, everything's fine, you know, being completely perfect.

                                                  And because of that, I think that can be pretty taxing on someone. So, when they do get kind of put on pressure, even if it's something as trivial as just being a hot day, like that's kind of their avenue to kind of get that off their chest and get that off their mind. And I do find myself asking myself that, I'm not really sure. I don't know if I have the answer to that.

                                                  What happens when you- You speak Japanese fluently, right? And you at work would be interacting mostly in Japanese, I imagine?

                                                  Yeah, entirely in Japanese, yeah.

                                                  What happens when your behaviour, your westernised kind of cultural behaviour seeps through obviously into Japanese? Do you get a lot of weird responses from people or do they kind of allow you to get away with certain things because they can see, you know, this guy is not Japanese in terms of race, he probably has an accent, so we'll give him a pass and not assume these things?

                                                  Or do they- Are there these weird experiences where you are, say, more extroverted or honest or open than, say, the average Japanese person and it kind of subverts expectations?

                                                  I definitely am more honest and more, like, say what I mean kind of thing compared to the average Japanese person. But it's not in- It's not in a way that gets me in any trouble. Have you heard of a term called the "gaijin card"?

                                                  Is "gaijin" the term for, like, "foreigner"?

                                                  Yeah, it just means foreigner.

                                                  Yeah. Yeah. Gaijin card. Okay. So, you mean, like you can just play the gaijin card all the time. Just be like, yeah, I'm a dumb foreigner. Don't know. Just gaijin card.

                                                  I mean, that's the negative stereotype of what it is. But I think it's like- It's not necessarily me playing the card intentionally, but like whenever I do say or do something or behave in a way that's not typical Japanese. Even if it- Like, if a typical Japanese person were to do the same thing, it actually might offend the people around them. But in my case, people are just willing to forgive it.

                                                  They just don't feel anything negative about it whatsoever.

                                                  That's funny, though, right. That happens a lot, I think in any language when you're learning a language. Like I get away with so much shit in Portuguese that I think if a native Brazilian Portuguese speaker were to say or do, people would be like, that's not okay, dude.

                                                  But because it's me and- I guess that's when you know you're probably at a really, really high level in a language when you no longer get away with that kind of stuff, they no longer give you free passes on mispronouncing certain words, using swear words in the wrong position or the wrong place, or, you know, not understanding that hierarchy of politeness or impoliteness.

                                                  And it is just something really funny that I'm like, I never know whether or not to get offended by the fact that I get away with those sorts of things. Because I'm like, if I keep getting away with this, it's because they're kind of like, you know, pat on the head, little kid. Oh, he's doing his best. You know, like...

                                                  Yeah.

                                                  But at the same time, I kind of don't want to be responsible for my actions and be held to account every single time, so. Is that something you lament or is it something that your kind of like happy that you get the gaijin card?

                                                  I'm not- I guess it depends on what it is, you know, like. I think if it's something where I know myself that I ought to know better or that this kind of behaviour wouldn't be acceptable anywhere, let alone here in Japan, then I want people to take it the way they're supposed to.

                                                  Yeah.

                                                  And chances are, I'm probably behaving that way because I want- I'm trying to be offensive.

                                                  To pause you there. I guess that's the difficult part, too, right? If you're trying to be subtle with how offensive you're being, they may not necessarily perceive that because they keep giving you the benefit of the doubt all the time. And David's like, there you know, he's calling someone a fuckhead and they're just like, oh, he's just- He doesn't actually mean that, right?

                                                  Like he's just- He's confused and your like, no, I'm actually really angry.

                                                  Yeah. And then there's times where, like, yo, like, there's no way you can expect me to know this sort of thing, right? This is not universal. This is actually not common sense; despite how much you think it is.

                                                  Yeah.

                                                  If anything, what you guys are expecting is makes no sense whatsoever to the common person.

                                                  Can you give me an example?

                                                  Okay. Let's say it's to do- Okay. So, I think- This is an interaction between my wife and I. Right.

                                                  Is she Japanese?

                                                  Yeah. Yeah. My wife is Japanese. Right. So, it's always interesting how, like, my wife would ask me a question. Hey, do you think we should do this? And I think it's a good idea, right. So, I'm like, yeah. Okay. That's my response. "Yeah. Okay." Now, if you did that in Japanese, right, that actually means you're not okay with it.

                                                  I love, too, the fact that you're married to the person and having these interactions where you have like these layers when you're married to someone and or in a relationship with someone for a long time of like understanding these nuances of their responses as well...

                                                  Yeah.

                                                  ...And overthinking- I have these interactions with my wife all the time where she'll say- I'll say something like that, you know, do you want to do this? And she'll respond. And I'd be like, are you angry? And she'll be like, no, I just wasn't excited. I wasn't- Do you want me to do a dance? Like, what do you want from me? I'm tired.

                                                  You get into this habit of being, like, almost too sensitive to reading those responses. But okay, so is that a stereotypical thing in Japanese where if someone were to ask you, you need to sort of be more enthusiastic with your response to actually show that you want to do it, as opposed to that- I guess you could be polite by saying, yeah, I'll think about it. And that's actually no, no, no, that's not happening. You know?

                                                  Yeah. So, I mean, it's- There's like so many layers to it. There's like not only do you have to be more enthusiastic with your yes, but you need to actually kind of engage in this artificial back and forth to start discussion. So, it makes it seem like you've actually deliberated and pondered over the idea before saying yes to it.

                                                  Okay.

                                                  And taken an interest in it in that process. So, the whole, "do you think we should do this? Yeah. Okay." That's not how you respond to it...

                                                  Why are you so angry, Dave? Why don't you want to do this thing? I said, yes.

                                                  Yeah. And that's exactly what my wife would say. She'd be like, why don't you think it's a good idea? Or you don't agree? And she'd actually be like, ready to go on full on argue with me over it. I'd be like, I didn't say no. I didn't say I disagree. Did you hear what I said? I said, yes. Okay. I said, yeah. Okay. So, is that the end of discussion?

                                                  Did you ever read those books growing up of like Mr Happy and Mrs Know-It-All?

                                                  Yes.

                                                  I was- So, I was reading one of those to my son last night. My wife found these on the side of the road. Someone had left a basket out with all these old books, and instead of throwing them out, they just put them in a basket and they're for people. She walked around the corner and was like, oh, there's some books. I'll grab them for Noah. These were like obviously books from when I was a kid. They were like made in the '90s, early '90s.

                                                  So, I'm reading Mr. Muddle where he muddles everything up, right. So, it goes through the book and effectively shows how like when he tries to- When he wants to have a shower, he accidentally steps into the sauna or you know, when he wants to go for a swim, he accidentally climbs a hill because he keeps muddling everything up.

                                                  You know, he tries to have breakfast and he pours the milk on the bread and puts his sugar in the butter or something like that. The book kind of has this really interesting turn where he starts interacting with other people in the town, and so he goes with a fisherman to try and go fishing and the fishermen's like, can you push the boat into the water? And he pulls it further up the beach.

                                                  And then when he goes in the boat and they're out there, he's like, let's throw a hook in the water. And Mr Muddle dives into the water. And the funny thing about it is, like by the end of the book, the guy that went fishing with him works out he needs to ask the opposite thing to get Mr Muddle to do what he wants. So, when they get to shore, he says, can you put the boat in the water?

                                                  And Mr Muddle pulls it up on the beach and it's like Mr Muddle was really happy and Mr George was really happy. And then he starts having all these interactions with everyone else in town and they finally worked out they have to ask him to do the opposite thing, for him to actually do what they want him to do, and everyone ends up way happier.

                                                  So, I guess it's a kind of long story of saying that, which is a really funny thing where yet culturally at times it seems like you need to get used to these- You have to get used to doing something that is not necessarily what you would do or could even be the opposite reaction of what you would have in order to sort of get used to those norms for everyone to be happy.

                                                  But it is difficult when you're like, I guess in Japan when you're there, you are the one that has to kind of capitulate and be the, I'm trying to work as best I can in the framework of Japanese culture. Do you ever- When your wife and you go overseas, do you ever pull the "tables have turned bitches"? You know, now it's your turn, you know, to get used to everything else. I'm in my hometown. This is my, you know, this is home turf.

                                                  We're in Malaysia. We're in Singapore. It's your turn to be the awkward foreigner.

                                                  I don't think- I think right now that would be really refreshing. But I think- Because after moving here the second time, like, we haven't really had a chance to go abroad.

                                                  Yeah.

                                                  Just because like the whole COVID and all that. So, I think the next- When things do settle down, when we finally do get to travel abroad, that's probably going to be how I feel.

                                                  You need to work out- You need to sit down- There's a book, I've forgotten what the cultural book that talks about loose and tight cultures.

                                                  Have you heard of that book?

                                                  No, I haven't.

                                                  Let's see if I can find it. It's by a woman. Rule makers, rule breakers. How Tight and Loose Cultures Wire Our World by Michelle J. Gelfand or Gelfand, I think. G-E-L-F-A-N-D. She talks about how different cultures are loose versus tight, right.

                                                  Like, so Australia's a loose culture where we tend to be very relaxed about these things and Japan's sort of the other extreme of being very tight culture, having a very specific rule set of how you behave, hierarchies at work, all of that sort of stuff.

                                                  And I think the book- I've heard her interview, I haven't actually read the book, but she was talking about how there's always benefits, there's trade-offs and benefits to any of these things, right. So, like in times of crises, you probably want a tight culture that's going to follow a strict hierarchy, whereas in times of, you know, lots of money and peace and everything, you'd want a looser one where the rules aren't as strict.

                                                  But it'd be interesting if you worked out which country is the loosest country in the world that I could take my wife to and then just be like, set her among the pigeons, right? You're the fox, she's the pigeons, and you're just like, let's go- You probably need to go to Brazil, something like that.

                                                  Or like during Mardi Gras or during Carnival, I want to say. Mardi Gras. Carnival and just be like, you know, you're putting on this suit, we're getting in the street, we're dancing, you know, let's see how you go.

                                                  Oh, yeah. Definitely want to give that a try. I would love to give that a try.

                                                  Has she been out of Japan much?

                                                  Yes. Like before we got married, like, travelling was like one of her hobbies, or if you could say that. Like, she's been to more countries than I have.

                                                  Oh, wow.

                                                  ...I lost track of which countries. But like, yeah. Like she's been to Australia, Morocco...

                                                  Wow.

                                                  ...Singapore, Malaysia, I mean those are countries I've been to. The US, Canada, like she's been all over the place.

                                                  Wow. It sounds like Brazil probably won't be much of a shock then.

                                                  Yeah.

                                                  But it is funny. Like all the Japanese people I tend to meet in Australia are- I would imagine they're not a good representative of the average Japanese person. Right? The same way I would imagine the average Australian you'd meet somewhere like Brazil is probably not a good representation of the average quote unquote "Australian". Does that tend to ring true for you? Have you noticed that?

                                                  Yeah. Yeah, totally. I think the average- There's a typical Japanese person you might meet in Australia would be- Would fall into one of two categories. One is, they're from a really wealthy family where they can afford to kind of just, you know, not have any worries about anything else going on in Japan and just get on a plane and go to Australia for a year or two.

                                                  And then the other type would be people who are just so detached from the Japanese way norm of where everything you think about and care about is your job, your work, your career. They're the kind who want to be the rebels. They're the hips- The hippies of Japan, if you can call them that. They're the type to say, you know what? I want to throw everything away and I want to be free and just do what I want and live my own life.

                                                  And they'll just get on a plane with not much money, but they'll just be like, yeah, I don't know how things are going to turn out. I don't know anybody where I'm going, but I'm just going to go there and see what happens.

                                                  I met one of those the other day. I went back to jiu-jitsu, which is why you can see my face is a bit smashed up. And he was on the mat, and I remember chatting to him and being like, where abouts are you from? And it was funny. Initially he's like, Japan, where are you from? I was just like, oh Jesus, I didn't mean it like that. I wasn't like, you know, go home immigrant. I was just curious.

                                                  And I was telling him about Aussie English and everything. And then he loosened up and he was like, yeah, I just came over here and I'd learnt English at school and then just winged it. And he had really, really good English. I was actually really impressed. He was like, I haven't studied English.

                                                  I just came over here and kind of picked it up. And then just is learning to code on his own. And he's just like, yeah, I pretty much just learn to code. I've got a wife here. Yeah, I'm just doing that and jiu-jitsu and this is my life. And I was just like, yeah, you're not the average Japanese person. By the sounds of it.

                                                  I remember I need to talk to him more, I was like, I need to chat to you on the podcast because I would love to know more about, you know, and many of the listeners will be these kinds of people, but those people who decide, I don't like what I have at home, my culture or not even necessarily not liking it, but having an urge to go elsewhere. Right? I always felt like that kind of a person in Australia.

                                                  I never really wanted to- From a young age, I never wanted to necessarily live here forever. I kind of wanted to go overseas and experience other cultures and other places, other languages. I never wanted to marry an Australian. I was always pretty set on like, I want to marry someone who speaks a different language and comes from a different culture so that they can bring that to the family, effectively, right.

                                                  So, that we have that difference. Like I have- My sister's married to her, effectively her high school sweetheart, and they have an amazing relationship, but they grew up in the same town. And so, I always feel like, I mean, I'm potentially missing out on the kind of bond and what would you say, simultaneous knowledge of just life, right?

                                                  Like they completely understand each other's context, whereas my wife and I are constantly discovering new things about one another and each other's languages and cultures, because it's kind of like- Even after four or five years now of being together, she'll just do some really dumb shit, I'll think. And she'll be like, what do you mean? This is just normal. Like, what are you talking about? This is just- This is what we do in Brazil.

                                                  And I'll be like, are you serious? And then I'll do some really dumb shit, you know, thinking that that's the norm. And she'll just be like, what the hell is that? Like, what do you mean you don't just- What's a good example? Oh, she'll have like, so there's this food called farofa, right?

                                                  It's effectively- It's kind of like a large tuber- It's like a big, big, big potato, but it's native to South America and they grind it up, it's poisonous, so they have to treat it a certain way in order to be able to consume it. But they'll use it as a condiment, right? Sort of like you add it to rice. And initially when you do it, when you have it, you're like, this just tastes like shit.

                                                  Like this just made everything way worse. And then within about two meals, you're like, I can't ever imagine eating rice without this thing again.

                                                  Wow.

                                                  But she'll go to town where there'll be more of this. It almost looks like flour, but it's a little coarser. There'll be more of that on the plate than there is anything else. And I'll just be like, when I first had it, I thought someone had just put a packet of chips in a blender and just buzzed it and it was just effectively like sand.

                                                  And yeah, those are one of those things where I'll be like, do other Brazilians do this? Are you sure they do this? I feel like this is a really weird thing, right? This is kind of like cutting your toenails in your bed, right? It's just like no one does that, you know?

                                                  But what's it taste like? Is it purely just there for the texture or does it actually have a taste or flavour to it?

                                                  I think, again, I'm assuming it would probably have originally been just a really good carbohydrate source and they mix it with a lot of other things to kind of flavour it. So, you'll have I think onion, salt, bacon, dried bacon, other things that are kind of ground up and added to it.

                                                  And it's just this savoury- It's like a really coarse flour that's just savoury. But if you were to mix it with rice and then you have it in dishes where it's kind of paired with, what would you say, sauces.

                                                  So, they'll have it with something called feijoan, which is like beans, but with like a lot of liquid with it. And feijoa, though, which would be beans and meat and bacon and- Not bacon, but like sausages and other chorizo sort of things. And when you sort of combine those two things, you have the rice and the fa- farofa, and then the meat and the beans and the sauce. It's just insanely good. It's insanely good.

                                                  But it is one of those things where you first have it and your just like, what the hell? Because it's so outside of your cultural context. Like, we have a very Asian strong background when it comes to how we consume rice in Australia. It's typically white rice. It's going to be that almost sticky white rice that's been cooked a certain way, very Japanese style.

                                                  I think where they use large kind of machines, they'll put it into sushi and sashimi, and you get it that way and you kind of get really used to having it like that. And then so when they add their own kind of take on it or that's very traditional in Brazil, I think farofa is kind of like everywhere throughout Brazil.

                                                  But I'd never had it ever before and I remember just being like, you've just adulterated. How dare you break these rules of how we consume this food? But it's really good. It's really good. I definitely recommend trying it.

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                                                        The post AE 1143 – Interview: English Teacher to Car Mechanic in Japan with David Rajaraman – Part 1 appeared first on Aussie English.

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                                                        AE 1139 – 5 Expressions To Sound Fluent in English | Part 8 https://aussieenglish.com.au/ae-1139-5-english-expressions-for-everyday-use/ https://aussieenglish.com.au/ae-1139-5-english-expressions-for-everyday-use/#respond Sun, 01 May 2022 09:00:00 +0000 https://aussieenglish.com.au/?p=181231 AE 1139 – Expression 5 Expressions To Sound Fluent in English | Part 8 Learn Australian English in this expression…

                                                        The post AE 1139 – 5 Expressions To Sound Fluent in English | Part 8 appeared first on Aussie English.

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                                                        AE 1139 - Expression

                                                        5 Expressions To Sound Fluent in English | Part 8

                                                        Learn Australian English in this expression episode of the Aussie English Podcast.

                                                        These episodes aim to teach you common English expressions as well as give you a fair dinkum true-blue dose of Aussie culture, history, and news and current affairs.

                                                        ae 1139,pet smissen,peter smissen,aussie english,australian english,australian accent,learn english,learn english speaking,english expressions for everyday use,english for daily use,english for everyone,english for advanced learners,english for advanced speakers,get out of one's hair,get the drift,knock yourself out,a drop in the ocean,be on a roll,get out of my hair,get my drift or catch my drift,on a roll meaning,learn australian english

                                                        In today's episode...

                                                        Welcome back to the Aussie English podcast!

                                                        I think it’s been a month that I’ve not been making YouTube videos for the Aussie English channel but yeah, I’m back on YT today starting with this lesson on English Expressions.

                                                        In today’s video, let’s recap the past 5 English Expressions here on the podcast:

                                                        Get Out of Someone’s Hairhttps://aussieenglish.com.au/1122
                                                        Get the Drifthttps://aussieenglish.com.au/1126
                                                        Knock Yourself Outhttps://aussieenglish.com.au/1128
                                                        A Drop in The Oceanhttps://aussieenglish.com.au/1131
                                                        Be On A Rollhttps://aussieenglish.com.au/1134

                                                        We will also be doing an exercise on changing verb tenses! This is a short exercise for your learn how to change sentences from present tense to future tense.

                                                        Let me know what you think about this episode! Drop me a line at pete@aussieenglish.com.au

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                                                        Transcript of AE 1139 - 5 English Expressions for Everyday Use

                                                        All right, well, I better get out of your hair. What hair? I mean, I better leave you alone, let you get back to what you were doing. Oh, okay. You get my drift? What now? Whose drift? I mean, do you understand me? Sorta. Maybe it's time for me to teach you five new expressions. Only five? Isn't that a drop in the ocean? Hey, stop reading my notes.

                                                        G'day, you mob. Welcome to this lesson. Today I am going to teach you five new expressions in English that's going to help you sound much more natural when you speak it. If you don't know me, I am Pete, I'm the host of Aussie English and I've been helping people level up their Australian English for over half a decade now. So, if your goal is to take your English to the next level, this is the podcast and YouTube channel for you.

                                                        Before we get started, guys, don't forget you can grab today's worksheet. It's linked down in the description below so that you can download it, follow along, do the exercises, and really rapidly improve your English. And when you sign up to get this worksheet, you'll also receive all of my future worksheets for other English lessons just like this.

                                                        Also, every single expression that we cover today has been covered in its own unique episode on the Aussie English podcast. So, you can go and listen to that episode if you want to learn more about any of these specific expressions. Alright, without any further ado, let's begin. Number one: "To get out of someone's hair. To get out of someone's hair".

                                                        This expression means to stop being a nuisance to someone, to leave someone alone, to stop disturbing someone and let them get back to doing what they were doing. So, if I pop over to my mum's house, I'm unexpected, she didn't realise I was coming and she's doing a puzzle. After I say g'day and maybe, you know, leave her a present, she'll probably be like, look, I want to get back to the puzzle.

                                                        And I'll be like, "I'm going to get out of your hair". I'll let you get back to your puzzle, see ya, mum. "I'll get out of your hair." Imagine your neighbour drops in, comes over for a chinwag, wants to have a cuppa, right? A cup of coffee or a cup of tea. After 5 or 10 minutes of just catching up, the neighbour might say, "alright, it's been good to chat but 'I'll get out of your hair'. It's been good to chat, but 'I'll get out of your hair'."

                                                        I'll let you get back to doing what you were doing. I'll stop being a nuisance. "I'll get out of your hair." Expression number two: "Get the drift or to get someone's drift". "Do you get my drift? To get the drift." This is a good little informal expression, meaning to understand the basic meaning of what someone's saying. So, if you "get someone's drift", you understand what they're saying.

                                                        Here's two examples. Imagine you're a school teacher explaining a math problem to your class. Everyone in the class looks a little perplexed, they look a little confused, but one student gets it. They understand what's going on. So, if you ask the class, "does anyone 'get my drift'?" One student might put their hand up and be like, I got it. "I got the drift". I understand what's going on.

                                                        You can also use this when kind of subtly suggesting something, right? So, maybe you're a young man and there's a neighbour's daughter who's fairly attractive and you've been dating the daughter on the sly. Maybe a friend comes and says something like, are you two an item? Like, are you guys going out? If you want to be subtle, you might say, "we're pretty close, if you 'get my drift'." Right? If you understand what I'm saying. We're pretty close.

                                                        Wink, wink. Expression number three: "Knock yourself out. Knock yourself out". Like literally that would be, I guess, to punch yourself in the face and go unconscious. But here it's an invitation for someone to do what they've asked permission to do, for them to have a good time, for them to enjoy themselves. "Knock yourself out." Two examples. Someone comes over to your house for a barbecue, right? A barbie, as we call it, in Australia.

                                                        They walk in the door, and they say straight away, g'day, Pete. How's it going? And then, you know what, I'm thirsty. Mind if I grab a beer? All right. Do you mind if I grab one of your beers out of the fridge? You might say, "of course not. 'Knock yourself out'." Right. You're saying, of course it's not a problem. Go get a beer, have fun, enjoy yourself. Do it. "Knock yourself out."

                                                        Example number two: Maybe your daughter comes home one day. She's had a licence for a few months. She says she wants to borrow Dad's car, right? Mom. Dad. Can I borrow your car? I want to go see my mates. If it's not a problem, if it's okay, you'll just say, "yeah, 'knock yourself out'. Here are the keys. "'Knock yourself out', go drive and see your mates." "Knock yourself out."

                                                        Alrighty, guys, before we continue, can you do me a teensy-weensy little favour? If you're watching this video and you're enjoying it, getting value out of it, can you give the like button a little *boop* just to show the magical YouTube algorithm that you're enjoying it and hopefully get it to show this video to other English learners just like you. It really helps small channels like mine. Cheers.

                                                        All right, expression number four: "A drop in the ocean. A drop in the ocean." If something is "a drop in the ocean", it is a very small amount of something that is unlikely to make much of a difference. Two examples. Imagine you're saving up all the money in the world that you can get your hands on so that you can buy a Ferrari.

                                                        Right? It's been your dream, since you were a kid you want to buy a Ferrari. You want to be the proud owner of a Ferrari Dino, for example. Okay, so you've been saving your money, one day a mate comes over and says, you know what, I want to help out. They write you out a check and they say, here's 50 bucks. Because the Ferrari is going to cost probably, what, half a million dollars. "$50 is just 'a drop in the ocean'."

                                                        It's not going to make much of a difference at all to your savings and when you can buy the car, it's just "a drop in the ocean". Example number two. You've been trying to read the book Game of Thrones, right? The entire series, you're trying to get through it, but you're only reading a paragraph every single day. Considering the entire series is thousands of pages long, "every single paragraph that you read is just 'a drop in the ocean'."

                                                        It is a very, very, very small amount of the total number of paragraphs in the entire series. "Each paragraph is just 'a drop in the ocean'." Alrighty, guys, and expression number five, the last one here. You made it to the end, well done. "To be on a roll. To be on a roll." Now, here the idea is "rolling", right, as opposed to say, "a roll", which in Australia is kind of like a round sandwich.

                                                        If you're "on a roll", you're on a streak of success or good luck, right? You've been achieving some things again and again and again, doing really well. You've had good luck. You've "been on a roll". Two examples. One day you go out fishing and you weren't sure which bait was going to work. So, you just grab the, I don't know, some worms.

                                                        You've been chucking them on your hook, casting your line out, and every single time the line hits the water, boom, a fish jumps on the line, you reel it in, you catch a fish. You do it again, you catch another fish. If you keep repeating this process and having good luck, "you're on a roll". You're doing incredibly well. You've caught so many fish, "you're on a roll".

                                                        Example number two. Imagine you've gone to a party, right, with all your friends and family, and for one reason or another, you keep saying things that upset people. You don't mean to, but you keep upsetting people. You upset your sister, you upset your father, you upset your grandmother. Someone might come up to you and just say, "Pete, look, just stop talking. 'You're on a roll'".

                                                        Right? You've had here a lot of bad luck, the opposite of success repeatedly. So, it's almost used sarcastically here. In fact, it is used sarcastically. It's like, "Pete, just stop. 'You're on a roll. You're on a roll'. Wow, 'you are on a roll'."

                                                        All right. Before we get into the big exercise at the end here, guys, I'm going to show you the expressions we just went over on the screen here, and I want you to pause the video quickly and write your own comment using one or more of these expressions down below. This is a great way of using what you've just learnt to hopefully keep it in the noggin here, in your brain. Okay, so hit pause and I'll see you in a jiffy.

                                                        Welcome back. All right. So, today we're going to go through a little exercise here with the expressions that we've just learnt. In the last episode, we focused on turning statements into questions using inversions. Click the link up here guys, if you want to go and check that video out after we're done.

                                                        But in today's exercise, let's focus on changing the following sentences from the future tense "will + verb" to "is/are/am + going to, the verb". Okay? Hopefully that makes sense. So, we're changing between the two different future tenses. For example, "I'll go home soon" becomes "I'm gonna go home soon."

                                                        So, you can either anticipate the change that I'm going to make and try and conjugate the sentence yourself and then check the answer. So, I'll say the first sentence, give you some time, and then I'll say the second sentence and you can check if you've got it right.

                                                        Otherwise, just use this as a listen and repeat exercise where you focus on my pronunciation, intonation, rhythm stress, everything like that, and you just read out every sentence that I say. Okay? So, are you ready? Let's go.

                                                        "Alright, I'll get out of your hair. Alright, I'mena get out of your hair." Little note there. Did you notice how "I am going to" changes into "I'mena. I'mena." When we speak with connected English with contracted English in Australian English, we can say, "I'mena. You can say "I'm gonna" as well. But quite often we'll just contract it all down to "I'mena. I'mena get out of your hair."

                                                        "Will he get the drift? Is he gonna get the drift?" Good work. So, the interesting thing here is you may notice /h/ deletion. "Will he" becomes "will 'e". "Will 'e. Will 'e get the drift?" And with the next sentence "is he" becomes "is 'e". "Is 'e going to get the drift? Will he get the drift? Is 'e going to get the drift?" "I think they'll just knock themselves out. I think they're gonna just knock themselves out."

                                                        Some connected speech in there. "Themselve' sout, themselve' sout". We link that /s/ sound at the end of "themselves" to the start of the word "out" because it starts with a vowel sound. "I think they're gonna just knock themselve' sout." "It'll only be a drop in the ocean. It's gonna only be a drop in the ocean."

                                                        You'll notice some more linking there. "Be ya, be ya". We link those two vowel sounds, /e/ and /a/ with a /ya/ sound. Be ya, be ya, be ya, be ya." "Be ya drop in the ocean." And then with "drop and in" because "drop" ends with a consonant, "in" starts with a vowel sound. "Dro pin, dro pin, be ya dro pin the ocean. Be ya dro pin the ocean." And it happens with "the ocean" as well. We link it again with another /ya/ sound.

                                                        "The yocean. The yocean. Be ya dro pin the yocean. Be ya dro pin the yocean." Lots of connected speech there today. And the last one, guys, "if that happens, we'll be on a roll. If that happens, we're gonna be on a roll." Same thing here with "be on a roll", right? There's lots of connections in there. "Be yon, be yon" using that /y/ sound. "Onə, onə". The /a/ sound becomes a schwa. It links to the "N" at the end of the word "on".

                                                        "Be yonə. Be yonə. Be yonə roll. Be yonə roll. Be yonə roll." Great job, guys. Don't forget, if you want to improve your pronunciation, check out my Australian pronunciation course. The link will be in the description below or you can just go to AussieEnglish.com.au/APC. Don't forget to grab today's worksheet and if you want to keep learning with me, you can also check out this video up here. See you next time.

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                                                              The post AE 1139 – 5 Expressions To Sound Fluent in English | Part 8 appeared first on Aussie English.

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                                                              AE 1138 – Interview: Escaping Ukraine Before the Russian Invasion with Justin Hammond – Part 2 https://aussieenglish.com.au/ae-1138-interview-escaping-ukraine-before-the-russian-invasion-with-justin-hammond-part-2/ https://aussieenglish.com.au/ae-1138-interview-escaping-ukraine-before-the-russian-invasion-with-justin-hammond-part-2/#comments Wed, 27 Apr 2022 09:00:00 +0000 https://aussieenglish.com.au/?p=181105 AE 1138 – INTERVIEW Escaping Ukraine Before the Russian Invasion with Justin Hammond – Part 2 Learn Australian English in…

                                                              The post AE 1138 – Interview: Escaping Ukraine Before the Russian Invasion with Justin Hammond – Part 2 appeared first on Aussie English.

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                                                              AE 1138 - INTERVIEW

                                                              Escaping Ukraine Before the Russian Invasion with Justin Hammond - Part 2

                                                              Learn Australian English in each of these episodes of the Aussie English Podcast.

                                                              In these Aussie English Interview episodes, I get to chin-wag with different people in and out of Australia!

                                                              ae 1138, aussie english conversation, aussie english learning, aussie english podcast, aussie english speaking practice, australian accent, australian english, australian interview, escape ukraine, justin hammond, language learning, learn australian, learn australian english, learn english conversation, learn english online course, learn english through interviews, learn english through story, listen to australian accent, pete smissen, peter smissen

                                                              In today's episode...

                                                              Here’s another round of interviews for you here on the Aussie English podcast!

                                                              Do you remember Justin Hammond of episode AE 475? Yep, this mate’s a language learner like me and has been doing travels around Russia and Ukraine.

                                                              In today’s episode, we talk about his experiences living in Ukraine and Russia and the cultural relationship between the two countries. 

                                                              How he left Ukraine just before the Russian invasion and escaped to Georgia. He then shared his thoughts on the ramp up to the invasion. 

                                                              We also talked about how the war will change Ukraine and Ukrainian identity for the worse in the short term, but the better in the long term. 

                                                              He also shares, being there in Ukraine, what Ukrainian people thought of Zelensky before and then after the invasion. Plus, the discrimination against Russians who are against the war and have fled the country, the power of Putin’s propaganda in Russia in controlling the population and what they know and believe. 

                                                              And lastly, his expectations of how this invasion will end and the fallout from it.

                                                              Join us today!

                                                              Let me know what you think about this episode! Drop me a line at pete@aussieenglish.com.au

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                                                              Transcript of AE 1138 - Interview: Escaping Ukraine Before the Russian Invasion with Justin Hammond - Part 2

                                                              G'day, you mob. Welcome to this episode of Aussie English. I am your host, Pete Smissen, and today is part-two of my interview with Justin Hammond. If you didn't see the previous episode with him, go check that out before listening to this one. In today's episode, we talk about his experiences living in Ukraine and Russia and the cultural relationship between the two countries.

                                                              How he left Ukraine just before the Russian invasion and escape to Georgia. His thoughts on the ramp up to the invasion. How the war will change Ukraine and Ukrainian identity for the worse in the short term, but the better in the long term. What Ukrainian people thought of Zelenskyy before and then after the invasion. The discrimination against Russians who are against the war and have fled the country.

                                                              The power of Putin's propaganda in Russia in controlling the population and what they know and believe. And lastly, his expectations of how this invasion will end and the fallout from it. So, guys, without any further ado, I give you Justin Hammond.

                                                              So, all right. So, facing the elephant in the room, we haven't got to it yet, but I've been sort of interested in how you learnt Russian and everything. You were in Ukraine, right? When everything went down. So, were you- I guess, what was that like? What was that experience like?

                                                              You left the country and were you anticipating what happened? As someone who has been to Russia many times and sort of understands the culture and probably has experienced Putin quite a bit. Yeah.

                                                              So, yeah, good question. So, yeah, I was in Russia, and we started getting warnings from, you know, the allied governments over at the embassies they'd send you messages about, hey, there's a build-up going on, you should consider leaving or just take caution and all that kind of stuff. And that kind of started around mid-January.

                                                              Then reports started coming out, I think it was from like the CIA in the US saying that this would likely happen around mid-February based on how long they've had troops on the border. They couldn't economically finance keeping them there much longer past like mid-March. And so, what was interesting about it though, was just the general mentality of Ukrainians there and everybody, like nobody believed anything was going to happen.

                                                              And so, it was extremely business as usual. Like just nobody was doing anything, nobody was leaving. People were just going to the gym and the schools were running and everything like that. And so, I basically I left around like the 4th of February, 5th of February, for a week I went to Istanbul and to Turkey and whatnot, hung out with a friend.

                                                              But then as we kind of came up into like closer to mid-February area, I thought, well, you know what, I'll go back to Ukraine. I needed somewhere to go, but I'll go to the West, I'll go to Lviv.

                                                              You know, that way, if something happens, at least I'm like further west and it's safer and all that kind of stuff. So, I flew back into Lviv like the Saturday morning, the Saturday before the war, which started on Friday the 23rd, and like right after getting off the plane was more messages from the Canadian government, from the US and all the people saying like, you have to get out, get out as soon as possible.

                                                              They were saying even get out like before Sunday night if you could, and I've just flown back in. And so- And I booked a month on Airbnb and everything, so I had to get the refund for that. But what I found interesting was like, again, Ukrainians were also privy to this information and that Saturday morning when I flew in, I came out of this cafe while waiting for my Airbnb.

                                                              I remember like walking past this group of school kids and this lady being like, hey, I'm your tour guide, so we're going to show you around Lviv. Like, again, just everything was so business as usual, nobody believed anything. And even when I left and I had to get a refund for my Airbnb, my Airbnb host was like, oh, are you afraid? Like, it's just Putin playing his games and stuff like that. Nothing's going to happen.

                                                              We've been at war since 2014, you know, when the initial occupation of Crimea happened. And so, really, you know, the Ukrainian response was always like, we've been hearing this for eight years, right, this is nothing new. And I'm trying to say like, well, no 170,000 troops on your border is new.

                                                              But anyways, you know, and so this this kind of idea of like, I was considering staying just because I'm like, hey, if the war starts, it'll happen in the East. And then once it starts, then I'll leave. But then they started talking about how it would likely start with airstrikes similar to the way it did in Georgia, and which case it wouldn't matter where you are in the country, nor how far west you are, like it's not going to matter.

                                                              They were warning, like, you're likely going to have to shelter in place, lose access to Internet, potentially to food, everything like that. And I'm like, well, I didn't sign up for that. So, basically, yeah, with the airstrikes and everything. I thought, okay, whatever. I'll just I'll get out. And all the governments were telling people to get out. So, I went ahead and did that and came to Georgia.

                                                              But yeah, I left on- I think I left on the Monday morning. And basically, that Wednesday was February 16th, which is when the CIA had determined that Putin had told the Russian military to be ready to move. And so, basically flights for like that Monday, Tuesday to Istanbul went from like $150 to $650-$700. Right. Like they were just- Prices were skyrocketing.

                                                              You basically had to like rush to get something. Obviously, Airbnb prices are going up like crazy. And so, I just kind of looked at it and was like, yeah, to me, Georgia was like the cheapest flight I could find. And then- Or to Poland it was a bit cheaper, but then like the Airbnb's were jacked up more there and still at the time they were much less jacked up here in Georgia.

                                                              So, I end up getting, like finding a good Airbnb, paid a little bit more for the ticket to come to Georgia. And then yeah, I kind of got here on, like, that t- Yeah, the Monday or whatever. I came in like Monday at that night or the next morning on the Tuesday and then the war started on the Friday, like four days later.

                                                              How did you find out about it?

                                                              About the war?

                                                              Yeah. Like, did someone message you? Did you watch the news? And what was going through your head when that happened?

                                                              Oh, when I woke up and all the- So, the bonding started at like 5:30 in the morning, that Friday morning. And I woke up, going on Instagram and all the posts and everything that people, like, my friends filming it, like you could see the smoke from their balconies, they were in Kiev because Kiev got hit first. But I think there was also some other places in Kharkiv and Odessa.

                                                              But like people literally just like friends sending me videos where like filming from their balcony, you could see the smoke coming from wherever like the airstrikes hit. Then the pictures started coming in, right. And so, that I'm just kind of laying in bed. I woke up at like 7:30, just laying in bed, just kind of like going through like all the messages people are either sending or posting.

                                                              And then since then, it's just been like a non-stop every day of like everything from, like, murder videos to like, you know, to just like the dead bodies, to the buildings, to, you know, everything like that. So, it's kind of just like, pick your day, right? It's just crazy. And really everybody's reaction was like, we really didn't think this was going to happen and whatnot.

                                                              And what's sad about it is a lot of people couldn't leave or wouldn't leave because men aged 18 to 60 aren't allowed to leave Ukraine during the war. So, either families have left and left like their brother, husband or father behind, or others feel inclined to stay because they don't want to leave their father, brother or husband behind. So, they're stuck there as well.

                                                              Yeah, I've got a few- I created an episode, "Voices of Ukraine" and published that on the podcast recently, giving the sort of people in Ukraine a chance to talk about what they were experiencing on the ground.

                                                              And yeah, some of them, like I had sort of deeper conversations with, and they were- I was like, are you getting the fuck out? Like as much as I want Ukraine to win, and I know that a lot of people need to stay there and fight in order for that to happen.

                                                              Once you create a relationship with someone your kind of like, I just want you to be safe. Like, fuck staying there, just get out. You've got a child, you've got a wife, you've got old parents. And a lot of them are just like, I can't, I've got family here, I've got friends here, I have to protect my children. But yeah, a rock and a hard place. Like, talk about how hard it is. Yeah, it's just insane.

                                                              What was going through your head? When this happened and when you found out this news were you thinking, "I fucking knew Putin would do this"? Or were you like, "oh, man, I had no idea that was coming", you know? And yeah.

                                                              I thought there was definitely going to be an incursion, but not- I thought it was just going to be more contained to the east and more formalising. So, basically there was like the Luhansk and Donetsk areas, but then there's the actual region which extends a bit further beyond and that's what he essentially recognised the independence of a couple of days earlier.

                                                              Yeah.

                                                              And so, I just assumed it was going to be more of an incursion into those areas in order to formalise those territories for Russia, that they would have been fighting and it would have been contained on the east or whatnot. I wasn't expecting it to be- I wasn't really expecting like the whole airstrikes and everything like that, even though they said like if it starts, that's how it would happen.

                                                              So, I was kind of surprised about that, definitely. So, I think that part surprised me, but. I assumed it would have been more like just, I don't want to say casual, but yeah, just more of like sort of like a slow incursion into that eastern area to take the areas that they just, you know, recognised as sovereign.

                                                              Well, and the expectation, from what I understand, was that Putin and the Kremlin and his cronies around him thought that Zelenskyy was going to run off with his tail between his legs almost instantly. Right. And he was given the opportunity to leave for the US, I think, or at least to be evacuated by them. And I think- I loved his message, which was like, I don't need a ride, I need tanks, or I need ammo, I need weapons or something, right.

                                                              Effectively that. And so, what's your sort of conception of what's happened since and the way in which Zelenskyy has stood up and become this insane hero political figure, right, that every single person now is going to know his name? Right, like globally, you would imagine. Sort of on level with Churchill, you know, in World War Two.

                                                              Was that something that you were expecting? That the average Ukrainian was expecting to happen? Did they think much of him prior to current events? And what's your sort of feeling of what they think of him now? So, before he was more so popular with the younger generations.

                                                              The older generations is not as happy with him, but now people seem to be really supportive of them or whatnot. So, he's definitely won a huge amount of points politically and had he left, it would have been an overthrow. He wouldn't have been able to stay in power, he would have been overthrown. So, yeah, I think that he's done a great job with it, and I think that it was a bit of a risk assessment.

                                                              Like, I think that- I want to say that I don't think Russia was necessarily expecting the amount of military aid to come in through weapons and training and all that stuff that's been brought in. At the same time, though, they're also just weighing the pros and cons. They haven't sent all their troops. Russia could take it in like 24 hours if they wanted to. It would just be a matter of at what cost?

                                                              How many civilians do you kill? How many buildings do you destroy? But they have the firepower to literally just knock down every building and run it over. It's just a matter of, yeah, at what cost do they do it, right? And so, I think that's kind of what is probably the decision there and everything, so. Yeah, it's sort of a weird kind of environment I guess to be in.

                                                              I think that a lot of people certainly didn't expect something like us or to be in this sort of environment afterwards. And then the fallout from it, everything from Ukrainians being displaced to the discrimination that Russians are facing who have fled and come here to Georgia and to other countries or whatnot. Like, there is huge discrimination against regular Russians right now...

                                                              In Russia that support this stuff or in Ukraine or just everywhere or...?

                                                              So, like the discrimination against Russians who have fled from Russia to Georgia, who, for example, because they're cut off from the banks, because they don't support the war in Moscow and in other places in Russia as well, like the police can stop you and they're reading their phones.

                                                              I saw.

                                                              Yeah. So, there's a lot of people who, you know, are against the war and you basically can't go back to Russia anymore. Any foreign income that you have, you have to legally put it back into rubles, 80% of what you make has to be converted back into or you face 100% of a fine of what you made. You know, they basically at that point, they just steal your money.

                                                              And so, there's all these new laws that are coming out, like as of like March 1st and March 12th and all that stuff that is just like really hard core affecting, you know, Russians and stuff. And obviously that is in no comparison to what Ukrainians are experiencing.

                                                              It's just to point out that these consequences have not only affected Ukrainians, moving, expecting other people as well, and then especially the people that are against the war, like a lot of people are not yearning it and wanting to- But you can't say anything when you're there...

                                                              Yeah.

                                                              ...Right...

                                                              Well, no, you face 15 years in jail, right, for mentioning it as a war or invasion or countering the message from the Kremlin publicly, so. And you know, from my understanding, you can obviously talk to this better than me, but the Russian police are not exactly the most sympathetic to dissidents, right? So...

                                                              I think that shows, like I think like the average human being is against killing other people. So, I think that really just shows the power of the propaganda. And you kind of understand, like, how the Nazis were able to do things that they did back in the day, especially when they had way less control.

                                                              They had control over the media and everything, but at the same time they didn't have Ukrainians and Westerners and all that stuff helping combat that. Right. So, you can kind of see just how powerful propaganda really is and how it works on people, and it's terrible in that way.

                                                              What was your understanding and experience of the relationship between the two countries prior to this and I guess the members of each country, how they viewed one another? There's been so much talk of what I at least believe is complete bullshit in terms of a Russian genocide in Ukraine and the place being just full of neo-Nazis who want to kill Russians, which seems to make no sense when they're both white. Right.

                                                              And the president of the country is a Jew who's...

                                                              (muffled) Exactly. So, and from the Ukrainians I've spoken to, they all seem to love Russians. They speak Russian, they're married to Russians, they have Russian family. What's your experience been when in both countries of how they view one another and how they connected or is it they hate each other? Like, what's your experience been personally?

                                                              Yeah. No, I would say, like, they all kind of consider themselves to be sort of related. Like Russians will say like, oh, it's all one people. Ukrainians will say, no, we're different. But they are- Everyone recognises the ties between it. Similarly, Canadians and Americans or I'm sure Australians and New Zealanders or whatever they're called...

                                                              Kiwi's.

                                                              Kiwi's, okay. Friends and family who live in the other country. And you know, like all these Russians are like, oh, like my background, my relatives are from Ukraine or like vice versa, where they're Ukrainian, but they're like, oh, my dad's from Moscow, but he lives in Ukraine.

                                                              And so, everybody has family like on both sides. And so, it's just really weird. And also, the division that that's created between families, right, where as for people in Ukraine being like, oh- Like my grandmother, she won't talk to me anymore because I'm trying to tell her, like, what's really going on. She doesn't believe it...

                                                              Oh, man, there was there was something on Reddit I read that there was a daughter trying to talk to her mum in Moscow and she was in Kiev and she's like, my mum doesn't believe me. I'm getting bombed by Russia and my mum thinks I'm lying. And you're like, what?

                                                              Yeah, it's terrible. It's the propaganda and you know. But that's how they do it, so. It hopefully will resolve, but.

                                                              What's it like when you're in Russia? Does the average person that you encounter just get spoon fed and swallow the Russian media propaganda? Or is it the kind of thing where they're not necessarily the majority, but a lot of people are afraid to say otherwise, especially publicly?

                                                              It's very generational, again, so the young people don't support Putin very often, especially one- Unless they're like kind of uneducated and not doing as well. So, anyone in bigger cities that's young generally doesn't support him, but anyone that's older typically does or whatnot.

                                                              And that's still the similar divide that you see now with things having happened between who is protesting against the war and who is fleeing versus who's supporting it and all that kind of stuff. I think it's something like 60% support the war in Russia when you look at the statistics, like it's the majority and it's because of that propaganda.

                                                              Well, and again, it's, I think it comes from Kremlin polls, right. Where your kind of like if someone from the Kremlin rings you up and says, do you support the war or do you support the special operation? What are you going to say? Like, are you going to be like, no, please don't call this house again? Take me off your register. So, what are you expecting happens ultimately as someone who is much closer-?

                                                              Well, you know, obviously not compared to a Russian, but as someone who's spent a lot of time there? And what are your fears for Russians, Ukrainians and even, you know, you as an outsider, as a Westerner who travels and wants to spend a lot of time there? What are your sort of fears of how this is going to play out and what it'll mean for the next, could be a generation or two, right?

                                                              Yeah. I think in terms of like going back to Russia, I think a lot of people that maybe had plans to are not going to. I think for even Russians themselves that are here in Georgia, they're talking about potentially 25,000 Russians permanently settling here now. And so, with myself, like I guess it depends on what happens with Ukraine and how that resolves and, you know, I don't know how that's going to end.

                                                              I can see a couple of different options and none of them are really great. I don't see any option being like Russia just simply backs out. Right. They're going to get something if they... (static) ...Whether it's recognition of those areas that were the Donetsk and Luhansk region, you know, whether it's essentially saying, okay, well, you leave the country, and we'll secede those territories to you.

                                                              But, you know, even then, and when they maybe guarantee that they would never join like the EU or something, but. Or NATO. But I think even then it's just, it's so hard to understand or to know, like what how that's going to end. And I think really like future plans kind of just depends on what goes on with that.

                                                              You were saying at the start, after I think you said 2008, Georgia was invaded by Russia, people stopped speaking Russian and stopped learning it. What do you see happening with Ukraine after this? Assuming that Ukraine comes out of this as a sovereign nation and isn't just absorbed back into Russia and what was the Soviet Union?

                                                              What do you think is going to happen with Ukrainian identity, the role of the Ukrainian language, how Russian will be perceived as a language in Ukraine, how Ukraine will be seen externally by the rest of the world?

                                                              Because I think loads of people had no idea where it was or what they- What language they spoke or anything about them prior to this happening. But now they do. What are your thoughts on how they're going to come out of this on the other side? Identity wise.

                                                              Yeah. Identity-wise is going to be that much stronger, 100%. In terms of how they handle the Russian language in Ukraine. It's hard to say because on one hand, the majority of people there, in my experience, unless you're from the West, still speak Russian as their first language, right, although they learn Ukrainian school.

                                                              You know, I'll talk to people and say, like, okay, but what if there's someone just got shot? And you have to call the police, it's a super stressful situation. What language is still going to be easier for you to speak? And it's usually it's Russian. That's not to say there's no exceptions. I do have friends where like Ukrainian is legitimately their first language.

                                                              But it seems like the majority of the population Russian is still their better language and that's not going to go away. I think that there would be a stronger push, even stronger than before towards using Ukrainian and not Russian, which is what they've been doing over the last several years in Ukraine, bringing in laws about not being allowed to use Russian in like government institutions.

                                                              That employed positions they have to start Ukrainian by law and then only if you speak Russian can they swap the Russian with you. I think that would be even stronger. But it also depends on, like, when I heard about potentially Ukrainian governments talking about seceding or sort of a resolution of the conflict that's going on.

                                                              I had heard that part of that would be not putting in laws that essentially discriminate against the Russian language.

                                                              Yeah.

                                                              So, who knows? Like, depending on how this whole resolution goes, those laws may even be reversed, you know, if that's the price that they have to pay in order to gain control back of the territories. So, I don't- It's hard to say. I feel like it really depends a lot on how that plays out.

                                                              Yeah, that's the saddest part, right? It seems like Russia's just doing everything it can to kind of steamroll Ukrainian identity in history and culture and everything like that, and just absorb them back into it and just make them effectively Russians, right. Whereas Ukrainians see themselves as having their own unique language and their own unique history.

                                                              Russia, at least Putin seems to want to just be like, no, you're part of us and we get everything. And so, it is going to be interesting to see how it plays out. Sorry.

                                                              Russian came from Ukrainian; Russia came from Ukraine. All everything there came from is Kiev in the beginning. So, like Kiev was the original, right, and Russia came from them. So, yeah.

                                                              I remember learning a bit about that when I was watching "Vikings" because I think they were talking about the king or the Tsar of Kiev in the year 800 or 900. Right. Where the Vikings- Ironically, I think, just what's the translation of Russia? Is that "river" or "canoe" or something like that and it's associated with Vikings and, you know, that they were Vikings in the past?

                                                              I have to dig into this a bit more. But I heard that there's quite a connection between the two historically and that, yeah, Russia obviously, the language wasn't that far east, right? You had Mongolia and all these other countries and different languages out there and then it just sort of got absorbed.

                                                              Yeah. Yeah. I actually don't know what the, like, Rus' would be. Like, R-U-S, Rus' would be like the core... (muffled) Yeah, I haven't thought about that. I mean it's not "river". I don't think it's "canoe", so...

                                                              Yeah. I wonder what I'm confusing there, but yeah, it is interesting. So, how do we finish on a positive note, man?

                                                              Yeah. I mean, I guess I just- Like, I'm hopeful overall that things will resolve. Whether or not they will, I don't know. I do think that it will have to resolve probably within the next month just because financially, again, between the ongoing and continuing sanctions against Russia and then the cost of supporting the war in Ukraine.

                                                              I just think it's too huge of a financial hit for them to take to just keep this going longer than a month. So, I think that's why they're starting to kind of do these talks and stuff. So, in terms of whatever way it plays out, I'm thinking within the next 30 days...

                                                              Do you think it's going to have a long-lasting effect on Russians and how they see themselves? I have spoken to a lot of Russians in Australia, and they are almost ashamed to mention the fact that they're Russian now, to speak Russian in public. I have a friend who teaches online, and he has his business and he's like, oh, the Russian students won't come to class anymore.

                                                              And you're just kind of like, this is just another angle where you're just like, fuck Putin. Like, talk about doing what was- What you view is best for you and fucking over, what, are almost 200 million people in the meantime in both countries. Like, the average Russian is now effectively fucked back in Russia and the average Ukrainian is currently doubly fucked.

                                                              Your kind of like, who is going to benefit from this? Especially- I think one of the heart-warming things that I've had is that I don't- I haven't heard of any Russians in Australia that I know of receiving discrimination from the average Australian, unless they were to come out and say they're pro-Kremlin, pro-Putin, happy the war is going on, fuck Ukraine.

                                                              If they were to say that sort of stuff, the average person would probably be like, you're a nutjob. Like that's- You sound like Hitler. But from what I understand, at least people seem to be able to separate Putin and the Kremlin and the Russian, you know, war machine from the average Russian.

                                                              Yeah. And the only reason it's different here in Georgia is because Georgia was attacked and occupied by Russia. And so, they see it as like what they went through, you know, X number of years ago. And then because of that, the massive protests that have come out and the Ukrainian flag being everywhere and then also the influx of both Ukrainians and Russians into the country and the consequences of that.

                                                              So, it's much more in their face and hitting close to home, if you will, that is sort of breeding that, you know, the discrimination against like the regular Russians who aren't supporting this.

                                                              Yeah, far out. Well, hopefully it ends soon and, yeah, we can get back to business because your kind of like- This is one of those funny things, right? I chat to Russians and, especially, I had a conversation with one who was in England. Right. And she was pro-Putin, pro the war, pro Russia, fuck the West and came out with the weirdest line for me, telling me that the West is going to fall apart because it celebrates gay people.

                                                              And I was kind of like, what? Where did that come from? So, I was just really surprised that there was someone who was obviously not living in the country and sort of benefiting from life in the West, but still very, very much pro-Russia and pro-Putin. It kind of really, really shocked me.

                                                              But fortunately for me, at least, the majority of the Russians that I interact with in Australia tend to be wide- Eyes wide open to what's actually going on. Have you experienced that kind of thing where you meet Russians abroad that are very sort of still very, very pro-Putin, pro-Russia?

                                                              Or do they tend to be much more eyes open global citizens, intellectual read into this sort of stuff, know how to sense make and everything? Because it seems like a lot of the smart people too are potentially going to leave Russia or have already left, right, which is going to lead to more problems, but.

                                                              Yeah. I've met people like that in the West, but they're the exception, not the rule. Generally, Russians are, you know, in the West living there, like, not pro-Putin or I would say like pro-Russia.

                                                              They usually recognise like it is my homeland and I always love it because of that. But you know, they went somewhere for a better life, and they recognise they have a better life. And there are a few people like you mentioned, but they're definitely the exception.

                                                              Yeah, that's good to know. Anyway, thanks for joining me, man. I really appreciate it. Where can people find out more about you and what you're currently doing? Are you still working in the English teaching realm, or have you ditched that, and you now have this, you know, high flying career in online business?

                                                              Yeah, I mean, like we still have the language still going or whatnot, but generally working on essentially like growth marketing and copywriting for SAS companies. So, it's the big focus. And yeah, it's going really well.

                                                              Brilliant. So, how can people find out about you and how can they find out your YouTube channel? Are you still smashing that out?

                                                              No, I'm actually kind of giving it up a little bit. And I found out just recently, as I think YouTube's no longer paying out channels who do content in Russian.

                                                              What?

                                                              And so...

                                                              Far out.

                                                              Yeah. Which is crazy. So, I actually have to check into that. I might not even be getting paid anymore.

                                                              How do they judge that, too? Do they just look at, okay, your contents in Russian and your audience is mainly Russian, therefore? Because what if you're- What if it's in Russian and you're in Australia to Australian-Russians or Russians who, you know, are elsewhere in the world? How do they gauge that?

                                                              ...Right. I don't know how they do it. And I honestly haven't checked yet. I just found out this morning about this. So, I need to go and look to see if like I've been affected by it. But I imagine they just needed to like make a quick action. They probably put out like a blanket rule over like all channels matching this criteria with audience here. That would be my guess.

                                                              But even the Ukrainian bloggers who make content even about Ukraine, but they do it in Russian have like, have gotten blocked, like big ones. So, I'm guessing people just got caught up in this blanket and they're probably not using a lot of subjective reviews to kind of test who they need to block or whatnot.

                                                              Far out. Well, I hope it ends up okay, mate. I hope it's all good. And I hope to have you back on the podcast soon.

                                                              Excellent and thank you for having me.

                                                              See ya, mate.

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                                                                    The post AE 1138 – Interview: Escaping Ukraine Before the Russian Invasion with Justin Hammond – Part 2 appeared first on Aussie English.

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                                                                    AE 1137 – Interview: Going From Beginner to Near-Native in Russian with Justin Hammond – Part 1 https://aussieenglish.com.au/ae-1137-interview-going-from-beginner-to-near-native-in-russian-with-justin-hammond-part-1/ https://aussieenglish.com.au/ae-1137-interview-going-from-beginner-to-near-native-in-russian-with-justin-hammond-part-1/#respond Sun, 24 Apr 2022 09:00:00 +0000 https://aussieenglish.com.au/?p=180827 AE 1137 – INTERVIEW Going From Beginner to Near-Native in Russian with Justin Hammond – Part 1 Learn Australian English…

                                                                    The post AE 1137 – Interview: Going From Beginner to Near-Native in Russian with Justin Hammond – Part 1 appeared first on Aussie English.

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                                                                    AE 1137 - INTERVIEW

                                                                    Going From Beginner to Near-Native in Russian with Justin Hammond - Part 1

                                                                    Learn Australian English in each of these episodes of the Aussie English Podcast.

                                                                    In these Aussie English Interview episodes, I get to chin-wag with different people in and out of Australia!

                                                                    In today's episode...

                                                                    Here’s another round of interviews for you here on the Aussie English podcast!

                                                                    Do you remember Justin Hammond of episode AE 475? Yep, this mate’s a language learner like me and has been doing travels around Russia and Ukraine.

                                                                    In this first episode, we catch up on his language learning experiences, learning French, Mandarin Chinese and then Russian later at university.

                                                                    We talk about why he ended up settling on Russian as a language to take through university and beyond the difficulties of learning significantly different foreign languages with very different grammar and writing systems compared to English.

                                                                    We also had a great chat on how we became a famous YouTuber in Russia! He does all of his videos and skits that he does in these videos in Russian.

                                                                    He also gives out tips on how to get the most out of an exchange in a foreign country and make sure your target language improves as much as possible.

                                                                    And lastly, we talk about the pros and cons of using native versus non-native English teachers or teachers in general.

                                                                    Join us today!


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                                                                    Transcript of AE 1137 - Interview Going From Beginner to Near-Native in Russian with Justin Hammond - Part 1 [Edited]

                                                                    G'day, you mob. Welcome to this episode of Aussie English. Today I have the pleasure of interviewing dear friend Justin Hammond. He was on the podcast. Geez, it was a few years back. So Episode 475 He is a language learner like myself. He has taught English, he has done a lot of travelling. He now works with software companies and has done a lot of time living in Russia and Ukraine. So I thought it would be really cool to get him on today.

                                                                    In this first episode, this is going to be a two part series. We catch up on his language learning experiences, learning French, Mandarin Chinese and then Russian later at university. Why he ended up settling on Russian as a language to take through university and beyond. The difficulties of learning significantly different foreign languages with very different grammar and writing systems compared to English.

                                                                    How we became a famous YouTuber in Russia. He does all of his videos and skits that he does in these videos in Russian. How to get the most out of an exchange in a foreign country and make sure your target language improves as much as possible. And lastly, the pros and cons of using native versus non-native English teachers or teachers in general.

                                                                    So anyway, guys, thank you for joining me. Without any further ado, let's get into today's episode. I give you Justin Hammond.

                                                                    G'day, guys. Welcome to this episode of Aussie English. I am blurry on the screen. Let me get back into focus.

                                                                    Today. I'm here with Justin Hammond, who was on the podcast. I had it up in front of me here. Episode 475. So that was back in 2018. It's been a while between drinks. How are you going, Justin?

                                                                    Not too bad. Yeah, that has been a while. I've said four years ago, back in 2018.

                                                                    I know! It's so weird though, you see like 2017, 2018, you don't think it's like four or five years ago, you think, oh, that's, it's a year or two, right? And then you think, shit, it's 2022.

                                                                    Time flies.

                                                                    Yeah. So how have you been? What's been going on. And give us a bit of a, a, a nutshell review of what you've been up to in the meantime since 2018.

                                                                    Sure. So yeah, it's been a while since then. I think when I was on here last I was in Ukraine, if I'm not mistaken or whatnot, which I guess is what we're talking a little bit about today. But since then, it's kind of been back and forth between sort of the Ukraine and Russia and that whole side of the world. I work online or whatnot, so everything for myself, it's been fine and able to move around. But yeah, essentially it was more or less in Ukraine up until very recently when I left due to everything that's been happening. And now I am in the capital of Georgia, Tbilisi.

                                                                    Very cool. And so how are you finding that? Because again, I'm totally ignorant to the these ex Soviet Union countries and the languages they speak there. So in Georgia, I imagine they speak Georgian or is that a variant or a dialect or something similar to Russian? Educate me and sorry to anyone from Georgia listening to this episode.

                                                                    So yeah, Georgian is not similar at all to Russian. Different alphabet. It doesn't sound anything like it. It is the main language that's spoken here. However, due to Georgia's past being part of the Soviet Union, Russia even occupying it after that and everything like that, the citizens here would learn Russian in school.

                                                                    Yeah.

                                                                    And so basically anybody here over like, 40, you can just speak Russian to them. Like every taxi driver, you speak Russian with them if they don't speak English and that sort of thing. But then around I think it was 2008 when Georgia became occupied by Russia and was attacked, they actually stopped teaching Russian in schools around that time. Like there's still some schools that will teach you and it's kind of optional. But definitely, like, the kids growing up now, they don't seem to speak Russian really as much. Anyone kind of under like 15 or something like that. Like they're not really learning it as I understand, for obvious reasons. So yeah, there's- and that it's quite similar to any other sort of like Eastern European country and being here I honestly feel like between half the people speaking Russian like I just feel like I'm still in Ukraine.

                                                                    Yeah.

                                                                    Not really changed that much.

                                                                    So going back to sort of, I guess, the start, people may not be aware if they haven't followed you and I recommend that you go and check out Justin's YouTube channel. You've been learning Russian for a very long time now and also have a rather large Russian following. What made you decide to pick up Russian as a language? Because it tends to be a language that at least I would imagine the average Australian, given the option of a language at school, would rarely, if ever, come across Russian as an option.

                                                                    And it's kind of intimidating because it's very difficult, right? Different writing set. You guys have got cases. You know, the pronunciation is pretty intimidating as well. So what made you decide out of all languages to learn to pick Russian?

                                                                    Sure. So, yeah, good question. I mean, I grew up in Canada where I'm from, and so I grew up learning French. And at the time that I was in university, back when I started learning Russian, my French was already pretty good and I didn't really feel like I needed to sort of affect it anymore at that time. So for me I really was just focussed on learning another language that would be super useful for myself, which is why I actually started with Chinese. I did Chinese for a whole year before I actually gave up on Chinese and switched into doing Russian.

                                                                    And was this, was this at university? Or was this just in your own time?

                                                                    So this was a university that was studying Chinese. And then to me, it just got to a point where I felt like I was never really going to master the reading and writing side of Chinese. Like the speaking and the understanding is much simpler than most people think. Grammatically, it's one of the easiest languages to learn. But when it comes to reading and writing, I didn't like this idea of learning all of these new words and how to pronounce them just to forget them like a week later, because there's no phonetic system to the alphabet.

                                                                    So for myself, which kind of Chinese was kind of in that first place in terms of what might be the most useful for me? I continued looking around at like Google searches for number of the most spoken languages in the world. You sort of have a bunch of Indian languages that come up in the second or third place. Spanish is up there, which would have been the more obvious choice. But...

                                                                    And the easier choice.

                                                                    And the easier choice. But learning Spanish in a university in the West is like 200 people in an auditorium. Like it's not personalised at all. And with it being an easier language, I felt like I could always just learn it in the future easily.

                                                                    So I chose Russian, had a friend that was studying it. It was kind of next up there in terms of most spoken languages. And I also felt like if I were to go to Russia one day and live there, that I wouldn't stand out so much like a foreigner. Like if I were to go to China or South America or anything like that, you could kind of just blend in and sort of live a bit of a more of a normal life. So that's kind of why I chose Russian.

                                                                    So what was that experience like learning Russian? What were the biggest hurdles to sort of overcome on your way to fluency and becoming really proficient in the language? As I said, you have a YouTube channel that I can't remember. The last time I looked at it. It had hundreds of thousands of subscribers. I don't know if you've passed a million yet, but you have a huge, huge following and the videos you create.

                                                                    I think you were- when we've been chatting in the past, you write these scripts that are entertaining, that are sort of funny, and that's part of the reason you get such a big audience. But it also shows that you have a very good understanding and level and proficiency in the language in order to be able to do that. So what was it like getting from absolute beginner to where you are today in terms of study, in terms of travelling there and having to interact with people, lessons, everything like that.

                                                                    Sure. So I think with Russian, the way that I try to explain it to people is that, yes, it is a difficult language, but there are rules for everything in Russian. So like in comparison to English, where there's so many exceptions, like the language of exceptions in Russian, you know, people can explain to you why something is said that way and find you like the exact rule that explains that. So I would argue that like the learning curve in Russian, for example, would it's very steep at the beginning because you're learning all these rules, these genders, these cases and the way all these things interact with each other, which is something that's so unfamiliar to someone who speaks in a language that's not that doesn't use cases.

                                                                    But then once you get past that and you kind of get into that sort of like mid intermediate level and you've learnt most of the grammar, I think that it's not terribly hard. I don't think it's a language that people necessarily speak super quickly, like Spanish as an example, like people are generally a little bit slower and that kind of thing. So I think in that respect.

                                                                    Could you explain quickly, though, what a case is for those people listening who don't speak a language that have cases in them?

                                                                    Sure. So basically, cases are just ways that you change nouns in a sentence in order to explain the role of that noun in that thing. So, for example, if we talk about 'the boy threw the ball', right? 'The boy' is in what's called a nominative case. He's just the subject of the sentence. But 'the ball' is the direct object, right, that he's throwing. So in Russian, the word for ball will actually change its ending to show that it's the thing that the boy is acting upon. Right? These are the things that he's throwing. And then if he's throwing that ball to somebody, the person that's receiving the ball is the indirect object. So they're also- they're ending will be changed a little bit as well because they're the indirect object.

                                                                    And what that allows you to do is that word order like in English is not as important. In English, it's very important to put your subject in the object and then the indirect object. Whereas in Russian you could change these words around and it would still make sense: who's throwing the ball and who's receiving it. Because the words have been conjugated into their essentially their use case, their case or whatnot, according to their endings.

                                                                    I feel like that I've started learning Ukrainian as of like two weeks ago and for obvious, for obvious reasons. But I feel like that's going to be the hardest thing for me to wrap my head around, getting used to intuitively being able to adjust the word endings for subjects, objects, direct objects, whilst also conjugating verbs, and then also having that, that fluidity of where you're putting the words in a phrase and being able to pass that when, when someone's speaking to. Being able to hear it out of order because I speak languages that are all, I guess what is it, subject, verb, object, right. So they are S-V-O languages.

                                                                    So that's going to be a mind fuck, I think when, when and if I ever get to that stage. Did you- did you have that trouble? Like the I guess it's the neurolinguistics, like understanding that grammar, internalising that grammar, and getting to a point where you just, it became second nature and you didn't have to think about it anymore. Was that a bigger hurdle you found in, say, Russian than when you were learning French? And it's much closer to English, right?

                                                                    So to an extent, like I do, I am at a point now where it's very internalised. I don't think about it, but when you are learning it, this whole idea that, you know, in Russian you can just put words in any order that you want. That's not entirely true because people do generally speak the same way. So if you take, for example, a sentence like 'I love you' in Russian, you could say 'you love I' or 'I, you love', and it would make sense. But the reality is, is that nobody does that. They still say, 'I love you'.

                                                                    So there's still sort of a consensus, right? These are the common patterns that we're going to use.

                                                                    Exactly. And so this whole idea of like, usually the reason why case has become so handy is that you can simply- you can- a lot of times that you can drop certain pronouns. You can drop other information that you don't need. Right? You can just- if you're conjugating verbs, for example, which we don't do in English, in the same way, if you want to say (speaks in Russian) like that is the word 'to go', but it's already conjugated into the form of 'you'. So I don't need to say, 'where are you going?' I'm just saying literally, like 'where go?'. And it makes sense that I'm saying, 'where are you going?' Because I've already conjugated the verb.

                                                                    So because of that, especially with writing, you can really remove pieces of information because you don't need those extra words that we use in English to help translate that concept so we get it across.

                                                                    How did you go with the writing system? That's something that I came up against obviously immediately and was like, Good God, there are so many letters here that- there are letters that represent the same sounds as in English, you know, say things like, what's one off the top of my head? Like the K symbol or the T symbol, or there's still K and T sounds, but then they'll have symbols like the backwards N, which is a vowel sound or the backwards R, which is “Я”.

                                                                    And my brain is constantly screwing me over because I've like learnt the sound. I understand that the backwards R is "ya" sound, but still when I see a word and it's in the middle of the word, instantly I think "ra". The P is the R symbol or the R sound. The P symbol is the R sound. So how did you go learning that?

                                                                    And then I've heard also that cursive writing is insane in, in Russian, and Ukrainian, where there's a lot of looping and everything and the letters all look very similar. So have you bothered to learn stuff like the cursive writing and had trouble with that as well? So yeah, what's your experience been?

                                                                    So the alphabet you'll find is much easier than you're expecting. You can learn it- honestly, you can learn it in like 2 hours. And like the written form of it, and be able to start like reading and pronouncing words. Part of the reason that why Russian and Ukrainian are so much more fanatical than English is because in English, where we use a combination of letters to produce a sound like 'sh' is- so the "sh" sound is actually just one single letter in Russian.

                                                                    So if you take a word like 'station' in English, the 'tion' depending on its roots and where it comes from, it sounds like "shun". Whereas in Russian you would see a word like 'station', it would just be pronounced. (speaks in Russian) It's pronounces as it's shown to you. And so that's what makes essentially like picking up the speaking and pronunciation. Exceptions basically don't exist so much easier. And of course having like dedicated letters for certain sounds with this idea of certain letters looking like English letters, but then they're kind of different, they have different sounds.

                                                                    That doesn't really become a problem because you're usually always like you never looking at letters on their own. You're always looking at it within the context of a word. And it's probably the same like in Portuguese, which you speak, where your mind just kind of swaps to it. And then it's not an issue. It's really, it's one of those like basic kind of things, like learning to ride a bike and it's easy to get past the training wheels. You've never even thought about this idea of like your balance after that. And so. It's- I wouldn't say it's that difficult in that sense. Yeah, definitely not at all.

                                                                    I feel like it's a beginner issue. Right. Same with the Portuguese and getting used to all the different vowel pronunciation and a big thing that I found difficult in Portuguese was anticipating nasal vowels when certain consonant sounds come after a vowel sound that you read in a word.

                                                                    So if you have a vowel and then there's an M or an N, usually, you have the nasal as the vowel sound before it. Or you could say that they combine to create a nasalised vowel and you don't actually pronounce the M or the N. So internalising that took a very long time, where you could actually read and anticipate the nasalization, especially in words that you'd never seen before. But yeah, I feel like potentially that's the issue with Ukrainian at the moment. I'm still working really hard.

                                                                    It's so funny. You go back to- whenever you learn a language with a new alphabet, you feel like a, like a really young child learning to read and write again. Where they're like, okay, sound out the word. What's this letter? And you're they're like, going st-, st-, oh it's 'stop', 'stop'!

                                                                    You know, you totally forget what it was like and how much work you had to put in as a small child to just learn your first alphabet and then being able to associate the words that you can already say with those symbols that you see on paper, right? So hopefully that's something if I continue with Ukrainian that it disappears pretty quickly, but at least that it's it is phonetic by the sounds of it. Or by the looks of it so far. So that's always a gift, especially when you when you consider English, right.

                                                                    Well, that concept. You've probably seen this before like this. I don't know what even what it's called, this little trick for English speakers where they take a text of several words. And I think as long as the first letter in the last letter and like the consonants are there or it's just the vowels are there, you can remove all the other letters and you can actually still read the sentence.

                                                                    And it's kind of similar to that. Like when you think about learning like in Russian, you know, where you're talking about, like you're sounding out the words, but then eventually you just stop. You don't read letters ever, like in English, right? You just see the word and you know, that word produces a sound in your mind, but you never sound it out. And that's kind of how it is, right? Like with Russian-

                                                                    Weirdly, I was learning about this and I think this is why we use an upper and lower case quite a lot. And we have, I think it's sort of over the last several hundred years, we've, I think we've sort of standardised the way that we use all the letters and everything in the upper case and lower case. And you'll see on signs and everything that it's really important to have both words with a capital at the start and then lowercase in the word so that you can see the word and just know from a distance.

                                                                    So like when you're driving and you see a sign with towns on it, you don't even need to read. You don't even need to be able to see the letters independent- independently to be able to read the word. You can just see the symbol that the word effectively is and instantly know. Oh shit. Okay, that's Melbourne on the sign there. And so it is interesting, I was, I was reading about this and that English is very, it's sort of halfway between what Chinese would be with pictographs effectively, right. Like images for words that have no association with the pronunciation in themselves and then languages that are 100% phonetic.

                                                                    And so English is that halfway point where you're forced to just memorise the shape of the word that you see on the page effectively, and associate that with the pronunciation, especially with vowels, because quite often the letters themselves don't necessarily correspond directly to the pronunciation, their pronunciation. So it was one of these interesting things where I was like, Holy crap, I never realised that English- I've- my brain effectively just recognises words as individual symbols.

                                                                    So that when I'm reading, I don't, I don't think about sounding out the vowel sounds and the consonants. It's just, you know, there's the word and there's the pronunciation, bang, in the vault. And I have to explain that to English students all the time that don't rely on just being able to pronounce the word based on the letters you need to just especially for the most common words, learn the pronunciation and just memorise it and see the word as a symbol. So it is something pretty cool.

                                                                    There is a collection of words, right, in English that I don't remember what the term is for them, but words that do are pronounced based on what they sound like, like muck or slop or something.

                                                                    So like onomatopoeia is as well where they're like, I guess like woof, right? For, for dogs, the sound that dogs make and everything. But yeah, yeah, yeah. So you've been obviously- you learnt Russian to fluency you, you did that at university and then after that what happened? You decided you know what, I want to move to Russia and just embrace the culture and live there for a while?

                                                                    So going into university, I already knew that, as many people do in the West, they want to do an exchange during their third year. So that's when I took the opportunity to go to Russia for the first time was in my third year of university. I kind of figured like, if you're going to go to another country anyways, you might as well work on learning a new language while you're at it. And then I just really enjoyed it. Like that first year that I was in Russia during my third year of university.

                                                                    Made a lot of friends. Studied Russian every day. And then I came back, finished my university degree, and then decided before hopping into a career and all that kind of stuff, to head back to Russia for a bit and was teaching English after that. So I think that to me, once you kind of go and you experience it and you make a ton of friends, it's almost like hard to come back, in a sense. But yeah, I did end up going back for the second year immediately after university.

                                                                    I had a question on the tip of my tongue that I was going to ask, Oh, how did you manage, once you were there, studying Russian and improving your Russian? This is something that I get asked all the time by people who come to Australia and they set up here, you know, they want to live here, they want to improve their English. But I know plenty of people who live here and their English hasn't improved since they arrived. Right. And then there are other people who don't come here and study English at home and it skyrockets. So did you have a sort of a difficult time, an easy time? Were you really strict with yourself? What did that look like in order to get your Russian to, well, obviously, where it was at the end of your third year there.

                                                                    Yeah. So I'd say that it's really just about your environment. Like when I was there, I was obviously studying every day at the university, so that helped a lot. But if you're thinking about people that kind of come to a new country and they're not just studying the language there, I mean, I would still encourage them if they feel like their language is stalling, to be actively studying like once or twice a week in an evening class or whatever it is.

                                                                    But more importantly, because I was like, it's all about your social life and just how much you encounter it and how much you use it. Like I was going out when I was there, every single night I was at like an event, speaking club language exchange. Out with friends. We're going to walk and you meet a lot of people who don't speak English very well and you're just forced to speak Russian with them. And so between like the studying during the day and then literally going out every single night, you know, you can just, every time you go out, you just kind of pick up a couple of new words. And I found like, that process just kept snowballing over time where you might hear a word in the lesson and then later I might see you on a billboard and later hear someone say it, and then you just kind of start picking it up. And it's just that continual process over time where I've always felt like my grammar necessarily never got better if I wasn't actively studying Russian.

                                                                    Your vocabulary would go up a lot. And so really you would just kind of force yourself into taking more lessons like that once or twice a week of studying to kind of make sure that your grammar and how you're using all these new words kind of keeps up with this new vocab that you're bringing in. And then, more importantly, just the confidence that that gives you a speaking where I know a lot of people are just like afraid to do speaking and practise speaking and everything. Whereas I was speaking so much like I was either texting people in Russian all the time and then just kind of learning like parrot the way they kind of write things. But also just being out with your friends and hearing how they say things and everything like that, and you just get used to speaking it or whatnot. I feel like that just really made it so much easier when you speak it, you remember it so much better, everything like that.

                                                                    I think that's the key to really developing fluency, right? And you don't realise when you first start learning a foreign language that you actually, to be really fluent you kind of need that. Obviously the basics of all the main grammar points that you're going to be using when speaking, and not even the majority of grammar, right? You're going to be using the same patterns all the time.

                                                                    Like in English, you'll be using the simple present, the simple past, the present continuous way more often than a lot of those structures that will be like, I will have been there or when I was young, I would do this all the time. And you don't realise that you, one, you just need to sort of focus on that grammar. And then two, when you're speaking with people, you're kind of like doing reps of these techniques effectively and it just becomes internalised so quickly that that's, that's ironically one of the big keys to improving your, your fluency.

                                                                    You can't really- I don't feel like you can do it on your own. It's kind of like learning to dance. I mean, there's so there's only so much you can kind of do as a single person trying to dance. But if you're trying to learn to tango, right, you need another person there to feed off. So did you find that that having friends and everything and obviously being social, was way more important for your fluency and proficiency than studying independently? Or do they kind of go hand in hand?

                                                                    I think it's a yeah, it's a combination of both. And I think it largely comes down to like what type of person you are because it really comes down to like doing the same thing over a long period of time and not giving it up.

                                                                    I do think that like no matter how much you study on your own, like you're going to have to practise. That's just the reality of it. Same thing. If you're dancing and you're watching dance videos like you could definitely get better than someone who doesn't watch anything, but you would still need to practise with somebody to eventually get it. So I think it is it is a bit of a combination like of learning those new words.

                                                                    But I would say like the speaking and the practise part of it, I always felt like I never necessarily, like, was learning new things but rather solidifying what I already knew.

                                                                    Yeah.

                                                                    And getting more confident at what I already knew. But the new like vocab and like, yeah, you pick up a few things here and there from your conversations, but a lot of that, like new vocab and new ways of doing things and saying things came from like the act of studying part of it. So they do. It's kind of like you learn it and then you go out and practise it. But like with speaking, because I feel like that's just one thing that the studying never really gave us very well was the speaking part of it.

                                                                    And you can speak with like a teacher one on one on Skype or whatever, and that's great to an extent. It's not the same as like getting yelled at in like a grocery store because you forgot something and being able to like really comprehend that in the way they say it and like different voices and people who speak louder and quieter and you know, all that kind of stuff. So, you do just kind of learn how people talk eventually and practise it more.

                                                                    Did you- did you find that it was the sort of snowballing effect with your confidence when speaking and everything? Right. Because I have a lot of people ask, how do I improve speaking confidence? And I hate just giving them that sort of dumb answer of speak more, dude, you know, like, but it feels like a big part of it is obviously having good self esteem, in the first place, and how you view yourself is really important.

                                                                    But then just doing more of the thing you're trying to get better at is going to make you become more confident with doing it right because you're going to see yourself being confident. So did you notice that when you were doing it, was that a big part of boosting your confidence?

                                                                    Oh, 100%. And I think it's funny actually that that understanding, like why people think that learning a language is any different than like shooting free throws for like basketball or whatnot. It's like someone who's not shooting free throws at all, or maybe they're shooting one a week, but then wondering like, Well, how do I get better at this in any other scenario? Like, it would just make total sense in our brain to be like, Well, yeah, obviously I need to shoot more free throws. Though when it comes to languages, I think because it's not like this physical thing, people don't necessarily see it in the same way, or like going to a gym and getting fitter or whatnot.

                                                                    Like it's the exact same thing. Like just you need you're wondering why you're not getting bigger, but you're not lifting weights, that kind of thing.

                                                                    Pause you there. I think it would be sort of like, okay, I want to get better at shooting free throws, but when I practise them, it has to be with Michael Jordan. Or when I go to the gym, like native speakers, right? And when I go to the gym and workout, it'll be with Arnold Schwarzenegger. And you're going to be like, oh, shit. Like, I'm totally embarrassed and not confident at all with these people around me.

                                                                    And I think that's part of the issue right, too, where people put native speakers on a massive pedestal and get nervous talking around them.

                                                                    Well, just, let's just do it right. Like you wouldn't think of karate in the belt system, right? Like they don't put the white belt up against the black belt. They put you against people like one belt higher to challenge you when you're just constantly keeping up right and kind of thing.

                                                                    And that's kind of the way you do it is you just kind of work through those stages. That's not to say like Michael Jordan couldn't help you.

                                                                    Oh, for sure. Exactly. Exactly.

                                                                    The value in terms of especially what you're paying. Right. Like that's the other thing is, is there a financial angle there? Are you paying for making practise and stuff like that, or teaching? You know, I always argue that I think like a lot of people are spending more money on a native English speaking teacher to teach them grammar when like a Russian teacher could teach them so much better. Like, really studied it.

                                                                    And then when you're ready, like if you really want to get like that accent part down, then you might spend the time or whatever with the native speaker. But I really think people are, it's the brand, the branding of it being like, Oh, it's a native speaker or like it's Michael Jordan or whatever, but it's going to improve me so much more, so much faster. And that's not necessarily true. I'm sure Michael Jordan would teach you to shoot a free throw the same way your local basketball coach would.

                                                                    I've often found that that the experts tend to be somewhat useless at times because they've internalised everything to the point, especially someone like Michael Jordan, who's probably learnt, you know, I haven't looked into it but I imagine he learnt from a kid, right? So that he's probably never actively thought about his exact movements.

                                                                    I mean maybe he has, but I remember when I was doing fencing, I used to do fencing at school when I competed at the sort of state level. And there was a, there was a a Commonwealth Games champion there once who was fencing with me and I was asking her for advice and she's like, Fuck, I don't know, mate, I just do it. I remember that that stuck with me forever because I was just like, Holy shit, this person is like top of her game. And I'm asking her like, What do I do here? And she's like, Mate, I never taught. I don't know. I get taught. I get told what I need to do. But I've never actually had to think about how to explain this to someone else. My body just does it.

                                                                    And so I think that's part of the issue, right? With native speakers, quite often the native speakers are really good, but whether or not they're good teachers and whether or not they can actually ever express what they're doing effectively so that you can internalise that as quickly as possible and at a price that's fair, that that's the sort of dodgy side of it. I think.

                                                                    We'll go ask like a native English speaker who's not a teacher to go explain one use present perfect. And what isn't perfect even is. Like, they wouldn't be able to tell you so.

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                                                                          The post AE 1137 – Interview: Going From Beginner to Near-Native in Russian with Justin Hammond – Part 1 appeared first on Aussie English.

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                                                                          AE 1125 – Interview: Lab-Leak or Natural Source? Where did Covid-19 Come From? | with Dr Dan Wilson https://aussieenglish.com.au/ae-1125-interview-lab-leak-or-natural-source-where-did-covid-19-come-from-with-dr-dan-wilson/ https://aussieenglish.com.au/ae-1125-interview-lab-leak-or-natural-source-where-did-covid-19-come-from-with-dr-dan-wilson/#respond Fri, 25 Mar 2022 08:00:00 +0000 https://aussieenglish.com.au/?p=179383 AE 1125 – INTERVIEW Lab-Leak or Natural Source? Where did Covid-19 Come From? | with Dr Dan Wilson Learn Australian…

                                                                          The post AE 1125 – Interview: Lab-Leak or Natural Source? Where did Covid-19 Come From? | with Dr Dan Wilson appeared first on Aussie English.

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                                                                          AE 1125 - INTERVIEW

                                                                          Lab-Leak or Natural Source? Where did Covid-19 Come From? | with Dr Dan Wilson

                                                                          Learn Australian English in each of these episodes of the Aussie English Podcast.

                                                                          In these Aussie English Interview episodes, I get to chin-wag with different people in and out of Australia!

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                                                                          In today's episode...

                                                                          Welcome to this episode of the Aussie English podcast!

                                                                          We got another man of science in the podcast today!

                                                                          This guy like me is another science lover – he got his bachelor’s degree in Biotechnology and Molecular Biology from Clarion University and his PhD in Molecular Biology from Carnegie Mellon University.

                                                                          Meet Dr. Dan Wilson, creator of the YouTube channel Debunk the Funk with Dr. Wilson!

                                                                          In his channel, he debunks the claims of anti vaxxers, the covid deniers, and various misinformation that’s circling the Internet.

                                                                          In this last instalment of my 4-part interview with Dr Wilson, we talk about the origins of the COVID 19 virus.

                                                                          Specifically, we talk about whether or not it came from a natural source versus a lab leak, where it was introduced from a lab into the population.

                                                                          Instead of, say, coming directly through animals, we talk about what evidence we need to see to be 100% certain that it was one or the other, a natural origin or a lab leak.

                                                                          We also talk about why it’s been so fuzzy and difficult to come to a definite conclusion on this.

                                                                          We also chat about why China immediately started to cover up everything related to the virus and clamp down on any investigation into its origins and much more.

                                                                          See you in the next episode!

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                                                                          Transcript of AE 1125 - Interview: Lab-Leak or Natural Source? Where did Covid-19 Come From? | with Dr Dan Wilson

                                                                          G'day, you mob. Pete Smissen here, this is another episode of the Aussie English podcast, the number one place for anyone and everyone wanting to learn Australian English. Or in the case of today's episode, a little bit more about COVID. So, today is part four of a four-part series I'm doing with Dr Dan Wilson.

                                                                          He is from the United States and has a PhD in molecular biology as well as a YouTube channel, "Debunk the funk" where he debunks the claims of anti-vaxxers and COVID deniers using science. He just talks about what the science has to say about these claims. In today's episode, we talk about the origins of the COVID-19 virus.

                                                                          We talk about whether or not it came from a natural source versus a lab leak, where it was introduced from a lab into the population, instead of, say, coming directly through animals. We talk about what evidence we need to see to be 100% certain that it was one or the other, a natural origin or a lab leak. And also, why it's been so fuzzy and difficult to come to a definite conclusion on this.

                                                                          We talk about the origins of SARS COVID-1 that we came to know as SARS in the early 2000s. Also, why China immediately started to cover up everything related to the virus and clamp down on any investigation into its origins and much more. So, I hope you enjoy this episode, guys. If you miss the other episodes, go back and check those out too. Without any further ado, slap the bird and let's get into today's episode.

                                                                          Anyway, the last thing I know- I'm aware of almost kept you for 2 hours, so I really appreciate it, Dan. The last thing I wanted to ask you about was, are you- Where do you think COVID came from? What does the science tell us currently about whether it was a lab leak or a natural formation of the virus? Where does it- Where do you stand currently on that?

                                                                          Yeah, I'm pretty strongly of the side that it was a natural zoonotic emergence. And so, I think the easiest way for me to describe this is to describe what a Chinese wet market might be like, at least the kind that- The kind where SARS-CoV-2 was first detected. So, these are open air markets where several different exotic wildlife species are brought live to a market.

                                                                          So, you know, tons of different mammals, reptiles, amphibians are all brought, sometimes smuggled illegally into the market and sold live. And while they're kept there, you know, they are kept in cages that are stacked on top of each other. So, they're scared, they're, you know, pooping and peeing in the cage and it's falling down to the cage below them, possibly at different species.

                                                                          And then when a customer orders them, they might even be, you know, slaughtered there in front of the customer. And then multiple times a day after an animal- Many animals have been slaughtered and there animal- There's animal remains, faeces, urine on the ground. They come through with hoses and spray everything down these drains, and while they're doing that, they're aerosolizing stuff from the ground.

                                                                          All that kind of biological material that's on the ground. So, if these animals are infected with viruses that are capable of infecting humans, that is such a prime opportune environment to allow that to happen. And that's where SARS-CoV-2 was first detected, in people associated with that market. So, if that's not a screaming, blaring red siren as to where SARS-CoV-2 came from, I don't know what is.

                                                                          To pause you there quickly. So, is it SARS-CoV-1 that was the original SARS from 2003 and 2004? Is that the name of that virus? So, the thing- Yeah, the thing that I found interesting and again, I haven't gone too deep into fact checking all of this, but I've followed--you know Matt Ridley, the author of "Viral"?

                                                                          I do. I have three of his books on my shelf right here.

                                                                          Brilliant. So, he in an interview recently with Trigonometry--it's up on YouTube--I think he was saying that he's of the lab leak hypothesis. Right. So, he was saying you would expect to see a similar situation to the original SARS outbreak in 2003 or 2004, where I think they found it in loads of animals almost immediately.

                                                                          And... Yeah. And that we haven't had that happen with COVID, right. We haven't found it in any animal at any market specifically yet.

                                                                          Right. So, the big difference- I'm disappointed in Matt Ridley, by the way, that he has gone that route. Because I did like some of his other books. But the reason that SARS-2 situation doesn't look like SARS-1 is because back when SARS-1 emerged, you know, that was the first time a coronavirus had really jumped from- Jumped to humans in association with a wet market.

                                                                          So, it was circulating for a while, and they were detecting cases of it while the animals were still in the market. And that's how- That's partly how they were able to identify it and identify where it came from so quickly.

                                                                          Yeah.

                                                                          But with SARS-CoV-2- Excuse me. The second time around, China knew the risks, essentially. And a big part of the story is that after SARS-1 the wet markets, this wildlife, exotic wildlife industry which by the way it's an $80 billion industry. It's huge.

                                                                          Yeah.

                                                                          It's bigger than the American meat- The entire American meat trade.

                                                                          Jesus.

                                                                          These wet markets were- Got a lot of scrutiny after SARS-1 outbreaks and they temporarily shut them down, but they opened them back up obviously after SARS-1. So, now, you know- Again, it's an $80 Billion industry. China- There's a lot of interest groups in China that have vested interest in keeping those markets open.

                                                                          So, the idea of another coronavirus jumping to humans in association with wet markets was not a happy thought for those stakeholders. So, what happened when SARS-CoV-2 was first detected was they immediately shut down the market, which is good for containment purposes. That's what you want to do. You want to, as fast as possible, shut down the market, get rid of the animals, get rid of the source.

                                                                          So, all the animals in that market were called, they were disposed of and they weren't sampled before they were disposed of. So, for all we know, you know, animals in that market could have come from several different locations across China or even outside of China. And some of them come in illegally, again. So, there might be- Not be any record of certain, you know...

                                                                          Origins?

                                                                          ...Animal- Certain-. Yeah, animals from certain locations. So, after the market was shut down and all the animals were called. That's probably now all the evidence for an animal origin was gone...

                                                                          Yeah.

                                                                          ...With that. Because when the market opened back up again, you know, the new animals that come in don't necessarily have SARS-CoV-2.

                                                                          I think this is part of the hard thing to ever really get at what actually happened is so much information is missing.

                                                                          And then you have combined with the fact that China is, you know, a sort of communist dictatorship, that either if it was a lab leak, would want to cover that up and would want to control information because it would want to save face and show that 1) to the rest of the world; it wasn't our fault. And 2) to their own people; you're not in danger. We've got this under control.

                                                                          But that's where I get caught, and I lean towards that lab leak thing, because it seems like lightning has just struck in too many times in the same place. Your kind of like, how is the Wuhan virology lab there in that same city, you know, that works on those exact viruses from bats that are sampled thousands of kilometres away? And then why did they get rid of the air conditioning system straight away and put in a new one in the lab?

                                                                          Why did they delete a lot of the data? Why did they lock down everyone and say all scientists who publish on this or talk about it, you will be punished? And again, it's difficult because it's like, okay, yes, that could explain it being a lab leak and that they knew. But it could also explain that they just want to control all information and have zero possibility of anything coming back on them.

                                                                          And it becomes this really difficult situation where you're just like, China, if only you were more open about everything and transparent and we can get to the bottom of it, because if even if it were a lab leak, no one, I don't think is suggesting that you intentionally leaked it from a lab to get into the rest of the world and cause, you know, trillions of dollars' worth of damage.

                                                                          But we could then work towards "how do we stop that ever happening again?" And if we find out that it's not a lab leak because we can get access to the information and we find out, wow, it's actually from these wet markets. What can we then do to completely prevent that from ever happening?

                                                                          So, I think China is in a position where it's culturally wanting to save face and is just effectively like, this is not our fault, we've controlled everything, leave us alone. And the rest of the world is like, we want to know exactly where this came from because we can't have this happen again. Right?

                                                                          Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think that it's important to realise that if it was a lab leak, they would want to lie about it and save face and all that stuff. But the same is true for if it's a wet market origin because, you know, with it being an $80 billion industry and an important cultural part to a lot of Chinese people.

                                                                          They don't want that to get disturbed. They don't want that to be the problem that sparked SARS-CoV-2. And you can see that in their actions as well, you know, they- It is a problem that they were so secretive in the beginning of the pandemic.

                                                                          They were not, you know, eager to divulge information regarding the pandemic or try their hardest to find out where it actually came from. It was almost like they were trying as best as they could to squash it really fast and silently so that no one knew about it, but.

                                                                          Which ironically makes you look guilty. Right? It's one of those things where, like, to the outsider, you look like- If you're trying to kill everything in terms of information and transparency, it's like, well, why would you do that? Unless it was true, you know?

                                                                          Right. And so, they don't want it to be their fault either way. And...

                                                                          Yeah.

                                                                          ...You know, even after the beginning of the pandemic, they started saying like, oh, well, there were no- What was the exact claim? They claimed there were no live specific animals at the- At that wet market but, you know, an independent Chinese research lab that was cataloguing, you know, talking to the vendors at the Huanan market for different reasons.

                                                                          Their research project was- Had nothing to do with SARS-CoV-2, but they were- They kind of made friends with the people who, you know, sold illegal animals and found out exactly what the inventory was and how many there were. They publish their paper in nature. And that showed that, you know, that wasn't true, the statements from Chinese officials. Whether or not they were lying or genuinely didn't know because the animals were illegal; unclear.

                                                                          But they were really ready to say like, hey, there's no live of these specific animals at this market. Trust us, we totally checked. And they didn't check. They also tried to, you know, blame it on frozen meat being imported from other countries, which didn't make any sense.

                                                                          That doesn't make much sense at all. So, it's clearly- It clearly came from the market, in my view. I think all the science points to that. And China is, I think, content to at this point not participate in any WHO investigations.

                                                                          I guess it can't win, right. That's- Its position is, pfft, we have nothing to gain from helping you determine whatever the answer was. We have zero to gain, so go eff yourselves, you know.

                                                                          Exactly. Especially with all the accusations that it came from the lab. They- I'm sure they were very happy to use that excuse, to say we don't want to do this investigation.

                                                                          Yeah.

                                                                          Because you're accusing us of something ridiculous, so we don't want to implicate our wet markets.

                                                                          Yeah.

                                                                          Yeah. And I think now we're seeing, you know, they did ban wet markets after SARS-CoV-2 emerged, but- I'm not certain, but I believe that they're coming back.

                                                                          As a sort of final question here, you know, in the spirit of the scientific method. What would you need to see to be convinced that it was a lab leak and not a natural occurrence?

                                                                          So, you know, I think that- So, it's easy to say what we would need to see to show that it's a zoonotic origin, you know, finding it out in the wild in an animal would be the standard there. Which almost pretty much happened. There were viruses that were extremely, extremely similar to SARS-CoV-2 found in Northern Laos.

                                                                          That was late last year. But not to get into that. I think if it were to be a lab leak, you know, something like finding- Not sure exactly what it would look like, but finding some sort of documentation or physical evidence in the lab itself...

                                                                          Yep.

                                                                          ...Or...

                                                                          I think if you were to get, like...

                                                                          ...Sort of...

                                                                          ...If you were to get a sample, if you had access to the samples that they apparently destroyed, that were collected in the years leading up to COVID, and you found a sample and it's like this thing is 99-point whatever percent COVID-19, and it's in the lab already, right. You would be like, that's pretty much the smoking gun.

                                                                          Yeah. I think if you were able to find- If you're able to find a SARS-CoV-2 genome in a laboratory sample that was older, then it should be- and it matched really closely to the original Wuhan-1 variant that was first identified. That would be like, you know, as proof as you can get.

                                                                          But, I don't- I just don't think we're going to- That's kind of the problem with the lab leak theory. It's hard to demonstrate, right? The bar for its evidence is really, really high. You would need to- Because so far, we all- We have so many lines of evidence that point away from it, at this point, you would need like some huge find of the right genome from the right time period in the lab's storage.

                                                                          And if it had been gain-of-function research, which is effectively where what they're getting these viruses from natural origins in caves, from bats, and then they are manipulating them to try and make them more virulent and dangerous to humans to work out which viruses are more likely to become the next pandemic.

                                                                          If you were to be able to find research information, that's like, hey, yeah, we found this virus and then we gave it this spike protein, and this is COVID-19 now. You know, and that's just in the data, like in the collection, in the library, in the lab, you would be like, I think we found our source, guys.

                                                                          Yeah. Yeah. I mean, sure, that would be proof. But I think because you brought up gain-of-function, I want to clarify...

                                                                          Go for it.

                                                                          ...Like, what kind of research that the Wuhan Institute of Virology was actually doing that some people have called gain-of-function. It's not what a lot of people think it is where they're finding wild viruses and manipulating the wild viruses themselves.

                                                                          What they do is they have a genetic backbone. It's in their literature, they call it WIV1. W-I-V-1. It's just a coronavirus backbone, just a genome.

                                                                          That they can manipulate?

                                                                          Yeah. That they will cut and paste pieces out of. So, for example, if they find a wild virus that has a spike protein that is unique compared to what they've seen before. What they do is they, you know, they sample the bat, they sequenced the genome, so they don't grow the virus live in the lab.

                                                                          They sequence the genome, and they have the letters, and they take the letters that correspond to the spike gene, cut that out of the wild virus genome that they have isolated and paste that into the WIV1 backbone.

                                                                          So, it's a way for them to really control what is this one specific area of a wild genome in a virus there doing. If we just take that one thing and put it into the very heavily controlled genome backbone we've got, we get to find out what are the ramifications from just that part.

                                                                          That's the documented- Those are the documented experiments they were doing. Of course, you could say there were stuff- There was stuff off the books that we don't know about. But, you know, that's not a very- It's not a verifiable claim. It's, you know, you can't test it, so I don't like it.

                                                                          But that's the kind of research they were doing, I call it characterisation research, where they're finding sequences out in the wild and they're characterising them to learn about what's out there.

                                                                          Gotcha.

                                                                          I think that's pretty essential research. We should know what's out there. We- It's in our best interest. But of course, you have situations where you do that cut and paste and then now your backbone has a different property because it has a different spike protein, and that is technically a gain-of-function experiment.

                                                                          But I think it's important to just point out that it's not- Because when people think gain-of-function, they think, oh, we're trying to make this different. We're trying to make this have a different function. Whereas this work- And then, of course, that the implication there is we should ban gain-of-function research. Right? But this work is characterising what's out there...

                                                                          Yeah.

                                                                          ...And I don't see any other way you can do it other than what they're doing, where you might have a situation where your backbone now does something new and it's technically gain-of-function. So, I don't think it's useful to say, like, this is gain-of-function research and it's bad. I think- I think you, you know, you have to do the work to understand what they're actually doing, and what actually happened in those experiments.

                                                                          Well, I think, yeah, you've sort of exposed a blind spot for me because, I mean, as much as I've sort of read articles, like, journalistic articles on the Wuhan lab and what they were doing there, it's been through the filter of journalists and stuff that's been written for the layman, as opposed to, as you say, doing the work and getting in there.

                                                                          And that's one thing that I probably need to- If I really, really wanted to be certain of my position that it is a lab leak origin, I would- I should do the work of actually looking into how is the lab functioning? What was the research that was being done there? What's the evidence that I would need to see? And then also, obviously on the other side, what is the evidence that is there for a natural, you know, hypothesis or origin?

                                                                          And weigh those up more deeply. But yeah, it is something that you need to do if you want to be really, really staunched in these opinions. Cos it is funny how you can kind of go down a certain rabbit hole and absorb- It's almost like you get these passively through the environment and what you're exposed to, and you keep hearing the stories, and so you're just like, okay, now I feel like that's that thing.

                                                                          But you need to be able to constantly be taking a step back and checking yourself, right? And that's a very- More difficult thing to kind of conjure and to develop in yourself, but.

                                                                          Yeah, totally. And especially with when the media, you know, really picked up on it and started doing a lot of stories about lab leak, and as conspiracy theorists pointed out, started treating it more seriously. You know, a lot of conspiracy theorists complained about that. They said, oh, a lab leak was crazy when Trump was president and now Biden's president and all the journalists are warming up to the idea.

                                                                          Well, I think that's one of the things that muddies the waters. Muddies the waters, right...

                                                                          It does...

                                                                          ...It does make it so much more difficult. Yeah like, okay, so this thing was forbidden where YouTube was banning videos talking about it a month ago. And now it's the majority in the journalistic world, and the news are now like, oh yeah, it's probably this thing.

                                                                          And you're like, what am I meant to believe in terms of this? And how, you know, if next time you say something is complete bullshit, I'm going to be like, this is probably- There's probably something there. Or if you say this thing is definitely true, there's probably also something there, right? So, it is difficult.

                                                                          Yeah, that- That's exactly where I was going. It muddies the water so much. And I don't know the reason that the media made that transition. It was weird to watch. But, you know, I always recommend to people, like, if you're ever feeling like conflicted about a COVID issue.

                                                                          I like to say that one of the best things to listen to, especially if you like long form podcasts, is a podcast called "This Week in Virology". It's- I don't know if you know about that podcast.

                                                                          You've mentioned it. I've seen it on your channel.

                                                                          I have, yeah. It's so- It's- I always like to plug it because they're doing, like, my favourite thing ever, which is scientists making science public.

                                                                          Yeah.

                                                                          They basically just have journal clubs where they talk about papers, they go through the data, and they make it public on a podcast. And I think that's so good. It's such a simple idea and it's really effective. I love it, so. And they have several episodes where they discuss lab leak ideas, so. I really like them, for anybody who's feeling conflicted or confused about COVID issues, they bring a lot of clarity.

                                                                          This was "This Week in Virology"?

                                                                          Yes, "This Week in Virology", they call themselves TWIV.

                                                                          Brilliant. All right, well, mate, I've kept you for 2 hours and 15 minutes. I really, really appreciate your time. And I know you got to go to sleep because you've got a young baby. Where can people find out more about you and what you're doing if they want to check out your channel and everything like that?

                                                                          Yeah. So, I'm on YouTube. My YouTube channel is "Debunk the Funk with Dr Wilson". I'm on Twitter "@Debunk_the_Funk". My Facebook page is "Doc Wilson debunks". And I'm on Instagram as well, I think that's also at "debunk.the.funk". But if you want to get in touch with me, I have my contact information for the accounts that I check regularly in the description of all my videos.

                                                                          I think one thing to really give you props for is the fact that in I think the majority of your videos, if not all of them, any articles that you talk about or reference when you're trying to support a point that you make, you reference in the description so people can go and see it.

                                                                          So, it's not just this guy is talking about this thing, and he seems really convincing. I believe him. It's always, go and check if you're uncertain. The science is there, he leaves it there for you to go and check so that you don't just have to take his word for it.

                                                                          Yeah. All the links to all the papers that I talk about in my videos are always in the description.

                                                                          Awesome, dude. Well, thank you so much for coming on and I hope to have you back in the future. Hopefully not related to worse events with COVID or anything, but we'll see how it goes.

                                                                          Hopefully. Hopefully we're getting to out of the woods. But yeah, I enjoyed being here, Pete. Thanks so much for having me. Really appreciate it.

                                                                          My pleasure, mate. Thank you.

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                                                                                The post AE 1125 – Interview: Lab-Leak or Natural Source? Where did Covid-19 Come From? | with Dr Dan Wilson appeared first on Aussie English.

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                                                                                AE 1123 – Interview: Ivermectin & Hydroxychloroquine & the Ethics of Leaders & Influencers with Big Audiences | with Dr Dan Wilson https://aussieenglish.com.au/ae-1123-interview-ivermectin-hydroxychloroquine-the-ethics-of-leaders-influencers-with-big-audiences-with-dr-dan-wilson/ https://aussieenglish.com.au/ae-1123-interview-ivermectin-hydroxychloroquine-the-ethics-of-leaders-influencers-with-big-audiences-with-dr-dan-wilson/#respond Fri, 18 Mar 2022 08:00:00 +0000 https://aussieenglish.com.au/?p=178886 AE 1123 – INTERVIEW Ivermectin & Hydroxychloroquine & the Ethics of Leaders & Influencers with Big Audiences | with Dr…

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                                                                                AE 1123 - INTERVIEW

                                                                                Ivermectin & Hydroxychloroquine & the Ethics of Leaders & Influencers with Big Audiences | with Dr Dan Wilson

                                                                                Learn Australian English in each of these episodes of the Aussie English Podcast.

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                                                                                In today's episode...

                                                                                Welcome to this episode of the Aussie English podcast!

                                                                                We got another man of science in the podcast today!

                                                                                This guy like me is another science lover – he got his bachelor’s degree in Biotechnology and Molecular Biology from Clarion University and his PhD in Molecular Biology from Carnegie Mellon University.

                                                                                Meet Dr. Dan Wilson, creator of the YouTube channel Debunk the Funk with Dr. Wilson!

                                                                                In his channel, he debunks the claims of anti vaxxers, the covid deniers, and various misinformation that’s circling the Internet.

                                                                                This is part three of a four part series, so if you missed the first two episodes, go back and listen to those first!

                                                                                Today we talk about the controversial drugs, ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine, and what the science says about whether or not they are effective in the treatment of COVID 19.

                                                                                We talk about the ethical and moral responsibility of celebrities, with huge audiences hosting controversial figures on their platform who’ve been shown to spread misinformation about COVID in the past.

                                                                                We also talk about the recent episode with Robert Malone on the Joe Rogan Experience podcast – they talked about so much misinformation about Covid and Covid vaccines that music artists on Spotify protested against their controversial episode!

                                                                                We talk about Pierre Kory and Peter McCullough turning up on the Dark Horse podcast with Bret Weinstein as well.

                                                                                We talk about if there’s ever a limit of freedom of speech, particularly when facing something like a pandemic.

                                                                                Could it be that politicians and other political figures and public figures are intentionally lying to the public in order to try and achieve a good outcome? — Remember when Dr Anthony Fauci of the US claimed that masks didn’t work early in the pandemic so that he could save masks and other PPE for medical workers.

                                                                                See you in the next episode!

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                                                                                Transcript of AE 1123 - Interview: Ivermectin & Hydroxychloroquine & the Ethics of Leaders & Influencers with Big Audiences | with Dr Dan Wilson

                                                                                G'day, you mob. Pete here, from Aussie English. Welcome to this episode of the Aussie English podcast, where I am interviewing Dr Dan Wilson. This is part three of a four-part series, so if you missed the first two episodes, go back and listen to those first. Today we talk about the controversial drugs, ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine, and what the science says about whether or not they are effective in the treatment of COVID 19.

                                                                                We talk about the ethical and moral responsibility of celebrities with huge audiences hosting controversial figures on their platform who've been shown to spread misinformation about COVID in the past. So, we talk about the recent episode with Robert Malone on the Joe Rogan Experience podcast. We talk about Pierre Kory and Peter McCullough turning up on the Dark Horse podcast with Bret Weinstein as well.

                                                                                We talk about if there's ever a limit of freedom of speech, particularly when facing something like a pandemic. We talk about the ethics of politicians and other political figures and public figures intentionally lying to the public in order to try and achieve a good outcome. Specifically, the Dr Anthony Fauci claimed that masks didn't work early in the pandemic so that he could save masks and other PPE for medical workers.

                                                                                And we talk about much more. So, without any further ado, guys, slap the bird and let's get into today's episode. Anyway, so moving on to ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine, do you want to sort of sum up the trajectory of these two COVID treatments and tell us a little bit about what the science says about their efficacy?

                                                                                Yeah, so it's been so weird to watch honestly, the rise of these two medications. And it's weird because I think they rose to popularity partly- At least in part because it seemed like a really easy solution to a really complicated problem. Because you had two drugs that are cheap, used a lot throughout history and, you know, it just seemed like if it worked, it would be really great.

                                                                                And there was also a conspiratorial aspect to it that was really attractive to a lot of people where, oh, they're cheap and they're abundant, so Big Pharma can't make money off of them, so it must work against COVID.

                                                                                Were you constantly referenced a woman called- Her YouTube channel is called "Back to the Science" because she did a really good series. You pointed me there and I went and binge watched her stuff.

                                                                                Oh, she's great, yeah. But one of her biggest points was like, the pharmaceutical companies can make a lot of money off cheap drugs if they work and they have a use, it's called profit margin. Like they don't need a drug to be, you know, $50,000 a year for them to make money on it. But like, most antidepressants are cheap as chips, but they're ubiquitous throughout populations all over the world, and they're still being made and sold. Right?

                                                                                Yeah, I mean, imagine it, you know, you- We have this global pandemic, we don't have vaccines available yet. People are going into lockdowns; people are like desperate for solutions. And suddenly hydroxychloroquine comes on the scene, and gear for a big pharmaceutical company with the capabilities to make a ton of hydroxychloroquine really fast and everybody wants it.

                                                                                You know, if it works, you're going to want to make it, you're going to want to be the sole provider who can meet the demands of that medication. Supply it to everybody and maybe, you know, do some price gouging that Big Pharma has been known to do in the past and reap big profits, you know, that would be a dream for a pharmaceutical company. But Ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine, they don't work against COVID, that's the big issue, you know?

                                                                                But Merck's- Merck, who is one of the big producers of ivermectin, they still made a lot of money. Ivermectin was hard to get for a while because so many people were buying it, and Merck makes a ton of ivermectin. So, yeah, the conspiratorial aspect doesn't really work, but getting into the science of it- You know, hydroxychloroquine has both been used historically to treat parasitica.

                                                                                Hydroxychloroquine is a malaria drug, very effective at treating malaria. Not so great at treating COVID. Ivermectin is an antiparasitic, which treats a lot of different parasites, but is most well-known for treating the parasitic disease that causes river blindness.

                                                                                So, very effective at treating that, not so effective at treating COVID. And you know, there were big efforts early on in the pandemic to try to repurpose drugs, partly for the reasons that pharmaceutical companies would love to do that.

                                                                                Well, and they're already made, right? So, you have a pathway, the drugs are there you just need to ramp up production, you don't have to worry about investing billions in a vaccine.

                                                                                Right, right. That's something people also need to understand because the drugs are already made and because it has a safety profile, they don't have to spend the billions of dollars to run clinical trials to make sure that it's safe and effective. They just have to show that it's effective, that it works against COVID, which is a much shorter track for a drug than going through from start to finish, you know, safety and efficacy profile.

                                                                                So, yeah, people tried. People tried to repurpose lots of different drugs against COVID, but viruses are really tricky to treat traditionally because viruses have typically small genomes, so they only have a few different proteins. And most of the proteins they use to replicate, they hijack from you. Right, they infiltrate cells, they hijack machinery so that they can replicate themselves.

                                                                                So, if you want to disrupt a virus's replication cycle you have to find a way to target its proteins and not your proteins. And because they have such a small genome, it can be difficult to find a good target, especially if there isn't one, you know, among a small genome, it's- It can be tough. So, that's why it wasn't so easy to repurpose drugs for this, because viruses are just hard to treat.

                                                                                But, you know, people tried, and people tried hydroxychloroquine and they tried ivermectin, we have clinical trials where these drugs were tested out for among COVID patients. And the best clinical trials that we have, the randomised controlled ones with larger sample sizes show consistently that there is no benefit.

                                                                                So, what would you be seeing if you were looking at a trial like this where you have a group of people who are being treated with it and a group that aren't, what would you expect to see if it was having no effect?

                                                                                So- Oh, if it was having no effect?

                                                                                Yeah, and well, you can talk about having an effect as well.

                                                                                Oh, well, so in this one ivermectin study that I can think of, they were measuring- They were recruiting patients as they tested positive for COVID and then treating them with ivermectin to see if that kept them out of the hospital. So, they were looking for a difference in people who got ivermectin and people who didn't and who went to the hospital more.

                                                                                And both groups, the hospitalisations were pretty equal. And in the ivermectin group, the number of people who went on a mechanical ventilator was slightly increased, but not significantly. So, you would- That's the kind of result you would expect to see if there was no effect. If, of course, there is an effect, you would expect that people who got the treatment would be more likely to not go to the hospital, but they didn't see that.

                                                                                And there are multiple different studies set up to test different aspects, so there are studies to test like, you know, when someone gets hospitalised, does ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine help get them out of the hospital faster? Does it help them- Does it help prevent them from dying? Or going on to- Moving on to the ICU or ventilation?

                                                                                There have also been studies set up where people try to see like, okay, does it prevent you from getting infected? People take the drugs and they're followed for a period of time to see how likely they are to test positive for COVID. You know, there are all sorts of different aspects that different studies are set up to specifically look at.

                                                                                And really, at every step, we just see that ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine don't help stop you from getting infected. They don't help stop you from going to the hospital. They don't help stop you from dying. It's just- It just doesn't work.

                                                                                When, as- As we were talking about earlier about the science, right, there would be a massive incentive for people to be able to do a clean study that showed the efficacy of both these drugs and proved it flat out.

                                                                                And again, if you were to do the science correctly, and that was the result you found and it was peer reviewed, you'd be published in probably Science now, especially with all of the evidence going against what other studies have done with both of these drugs. Why won't this go away, though? Why does this seem to be constantly touted by people like Pierre Korey and even Bret Weinstein, who's the host of the Dark Horse podcast?

                                                                                I think...

                                                                                They should know better as an evolutionary biologist, but they just don't seem to look at the scientific literature as a whole, they pick the studies, right?

                                                                                Exactly, exactly. Yeah, they don't look at science as a body of literature. They definitely cherry pick. But I mean, I think, one cynical reason that I have when I look at the situation as to why it won't go away is because it's made a lot of people a lot of money. You bring up Bret Weinstein as an example.

                                                                                He, you know, his subscribers, his followers, they shot up around the time that he became the ivermectin guy, the guy promoting ivermectin. And, you know, that's his livelihood, he makes all of his money off of his podcast and the content he puts out. So, if he is making a lot of money, you know, promoting ivermectin and it's working, that's a big incentive for him to keep doing it, and it's an incentive for copycats to try to do that as well.

                                                                                I know that's a little bit of a cynical view, but, and there's definitely a lot more to it, as to why...

                                                                                He's interesting because- We can skip into this section, I wanted to talk to you about sort of authorities and influencers and ethics, but it is one of those things where, like even for me, creating content, I am very conscious of the content that's doing well. And I'm always looking at sort of the morals or the ethics behind, even with English teaching, doing, say, popcorn content.

                                                                                Right, like the- Setting the bar low and just creating the crap that's going to work on YouTube, but then constantly thinking about; but how do I actually deliver on quality at the end of the day so that I can sleep at night?

                                                                                And it always blows my mind with people like Bret Weinstein and Joe Rogan and a bunch of other influencers that are very big names, it's like, look, I understand that their defence quite often is, I actually believe this, blah blah blah.

                                                                                And that it has nothing to do with money or other biases and everything like that. But I'm like, how on earth, like, is Bret Weinstein, who is an evolutionary biologist who understands how to look at scientific literature and worked at a university for, you know, I think, decades as a professor?

                                                                                How in the case of ivermectin? How have you not, like, when it is so easy to find all of the research and for so many of them to have been pulled from publication because of fraudulence and falsified data? Or just being- Just not finding anything for the people writing the papers to have lied about certain things or have made crazy claims?

                                                                                How on earth do you not take a step back and look at those things and then think I'm getting a lot of traction from talking about ivermectin, am I leaning into this subconsciously because I know it's going to get views, it's going to grow my income, it's going to grow my audience? And is that a good thing, right?

                                                                                So, that's- The cynical side of me is always thinking that, especially with someone like Bret Weinstein, where I think his entire audience is tied in with his appearances on Joe Rogan's podcast, and that's effectively been his lift, you know, stratospheric growth in the last few years.

                                                                                So, yeah, it is one of these things that I find it like, I really like Bret Weinstein, especially when he talks about other things other than ivermectin and his wife. But it just blows my mind where I'm like, yeah, either they're just totally ignorant and really just don't- Haven't thought about these things. Haven't- Don't have the emotional awareness to see their own biases or they're maliciously doing this, which is way worse, obviously.

                                                                                Yeah, yeah. I- You know, I don't know how- I don't know if I can ascribe maliciousness or ignorance, I don't think I can quite identify what it is. But I think, you know, when I first started my YouTube channel, I- One of my big goals, was actually engaging with people just like how, you know, people back when I was a conspiracy theorist engaged with my comments and took the time. I wanted to do that with my channel.

                                                                                And so, I took the approach of, you know, anybody who believes that believes in anti-vaccine talking points. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and say that they are earnest, but misguided. And I took that approach as well with a lot of the people that I addressed, like debunked in my videos.

                                                                                But, you know, as time has gone on and I've learnt a little bit more about why exactly these people do this, because I got that question a lot, why would a PhD, why would a professional go down that route and start making these claims? And I always said, well, I don't know, but they're wrong. You know, that's all I really cared about, but I can't not learn more about these people as I do it.

                                                                                And I've- There have been a few people who have really stood out to me, and it's been Bret Weinstein and Robert Malone as really interesting, like, back stories as to how I think they might have actually gotten to where they are now.

                                                                                And what they both actually have in common is they both seem to feel like the academic system that they have spent time in hasn't given them the recognition that they feel like they deserve, and they got really bitter about it. So, Bret has his whole story with the... (both talking)

                                                                                Yeah. And Robert Malone has his whole story with his PhD adviser. His is, I think, more ridiculous than Bret Weinstein's, you know. But not to get into that. Basically, they both are coming from this place where they feel like they were not appreciated or almost cheated in a way. And now that they are saying the thing is that they are and getting the attention that they are, it's kind of what they always wanted. Right?

                                                                                At least that's kind of how I'm looking at it.

                                                                                Yeah.

                                                                                And so, they keep going with it, you know, this...

                                                                                A big red flag for me has been the lack of counterpoint, the lack of debate, the lack of having other people on that disagree with you and defending your claims in good spirit, but all the same, challenging what you actually believe and having it out with other people.

                                                                                I've noticed this a lot with the critical race theory stuff in the US, I think it's like Ibram X. Kendi or whatever it is who has, you know- And this is obviously another kettle of fish.

                                                                                But he published a book, I think it was- I don't know if it was "White Fragility" or it was one of the other ones, but the people who have published a lot of these books effectively are saying that, you know, white people are racist and black people have always been under the boot of the white person. They don't seem to- 1) They don't seem to see nuance, but they also don't ever debate anyone publicly.

                                                                                They just flat out refuse to ever have a conversation with anyone who disagrees with them. And it's always- That's always a massive red flag to me when- Especially in the scientific community, if you have certain claims or you want to support certain theories or prevent certain things, you have to have question time, right? Like at the end of any presentation, you have to go through the peer review process, you have to be challenged.

                                                                                And so, that's one of those things that's kind of pissed me off a lot about, say, Bret Weinstein's podcast. He hasn't had someone on who say's a proponent of ivermectin like Pierre Kory, and someone who is not a proponent of it, and to have a open, honest discussion about what the evidence says and the different points.

                                                                                I guess he- I would imagine he just sees that it's not going to grow my audience, it's probably going to piss people off even more. But whereas with Joe Rogan, Joe Rogan's kind of in this weird position, right, where I think he's a really nice, genuine dude. I don't think he's out there to- I mean, he's richer than God now, so I don't think he gives a shit about making money or getting bigger. He's got the biggest podcast in the world.

                                                                                I think he follows his curiosity and a lot of the time it ends up having people on who are a bit kooky and have certain things to sell. And I think he's very agreeable, I've sort of seen a breakdown of Joe Rogan. I think he had an interview with someone who was like a CIA operative who worked with, like brainwashing people and everything.

                                                                                And he was like, man, Joe, you're so, so manipulable. And he's like, yeah, I know. And he's like, see. So, it is interesting that he doesn't- He's not as challenging, right? But I think Joe Rogan's tried to at least have people of opposing points, either on his podcast to talk with him or on with other people to debate it, you know, publicly.

                                                                                But what do you think the responsibility of people once you get sort of- I mean, I don't know what the threshold is in terms of your audience size. But what is the responsibility of people who have, say, 11 million downloads an episode of their podcast having people on like Pierre Korey or Peter McCullough and you know, Robert Malone on and not having challenged?

                                                                                Yeah, I mean, I think it's a huge responsibility, especially for Joe Rogan and you know, I can definitely appreciate his efforts to bring just so many different people on his show. Because he has had people like Peter Hotez, who is a vaccinologist and exotic infectious disease specialist down in Houston, Texas. He's a smart guy.

                                                                                Joe's had him on the show and has talked to him, which is great, and I think at the end of that episode, he said I might go get vaccinated now. But then it's just crushing when you see, like two weeks later, he has some total nut on there and being really agreeable with him. It's so- It's very confusing to watch. It's really hard to know what's going on in his head. I don't know- I don't really get it.

                                                                                But his responsibility to do at least some vetting, I think, is huge.

                                                                                I think especially once you're at this size, right, with this amount of funding and money, it's like, dude, surely you can hire someone who's full time it is to just fact check people before they come on, right?

                                                                                Yeah. I mean, even in the Robert Malone podcast, I think he introduced him as a virologist. Robert Malone is not a virologist. He doesn't even have a PhD. He's a- He got his MD.

                                                                                Yeah.

                                                                                You know, that was- It's just really- It's so strange to watch and, I think that Joe Rogan is in this weird space where. You know, he does have a lot of different people on and he does seem to be genuine sometimes. But I think that just, you know, with the ones I've seen with Robert Malone and Peter McCullough and Pierre Korey and Bret Weinstein, people like that where he's so agreeable to them even though their ideas are so out there.

                                                                                It's really hard for me to have a lot of sympathy for him at this point, honestly. But I hope that he can change, I really do because I think he can...

                                                                                Well, at what point, though, do you have that excuse not work anymore? If I never asked for this, you know, I have always just followed my curiosity, I'm just enjoying conversations and...

                                                                                No, I don't think those excuses work at all.

                                                                                Yeah. At what point does that sort of wear off, right? And it become, look- You still look at the stats and see you're being downloaded billions of times a year, right, like billions of times a year. You're- If you were to get on there and interview someone about, you know, the benefits of getting your children to drink bleach, a significant amount of your listeners, you know, when you've got that many are going to give bleach to their kids.

                                                                                Right. And so, there's sort of that, you've got to realise that now that you have such a huge audience, what you say, especially in terms of health and safety, is going to trickle down to either really, really positive effects at a population level or very, very detrimental effects at a population level.

                                                                                And you can- I don't think you can any longer say I'm just, you know, following my curiosity. I didn't ask for this. People just listen because they want to listen, they can make their own decisions. And it's like, they listen to you because they trust you.

                                                                                They do. Yes. And it's become a pattern at this point where, you know, he will have someone on who spouts all this anti-vaccine stuff, and he gets a lot of backlash and always, it's happened before, it's- The backlash is probably the biggest it's been recently, but it's happened before. And every single time he will say, well, I'm just a big dummy, you know, I don't know. I'm not an expert. People don't take medical advice from me.

                                                                                But they but they do when you have people who claim to be experts on your show and they're saying these things that you will sit there and agree with.

                                                                                And they seem to make sense.

                                                                                They seem to make sense. Yeah. I mean, you brought up the bleach example, like he could- There are definitely people with actual MDS in America. I've watched their videos, it's painful. But there are definitely doctors in America that he could have on his show who will- Who would sit there and talk about what is essentially a bleach treatment and make it sound convincing.

                                                                                And if he agrees with them that's going to cause a lot of calls to poison control, like it's just- He has that power, he has that influence, you know, he has to have some responsibility. And I don't quite know what the solution is, right. If you ban him, he's so influential that you're probably going to make a dent in his listeners per episode, but the outrage that comes with that is probably not going to help. Right?

                                                                                So, what do you do? I don't know. I mean...

                                                                                I don't think silencing- Silencing people never works, right? Even- What you need to do is address their ideas and their claims in good faith and, you know, better evidence and discussion is what gets rid of bad ideas, right. You don't get rid of racism by just banning racists from using the internet. They just go underground, right, so.

                                                                                Yeah. I mean, yeah, I think it definitely depends. I think there are definitely multiple ways to look at it. Like, for example, Alex Jones was banned completely from a lot of platforms, and that did really hurt his viewership.

                                                                                But, you know, he is just totally batshit weird. I mean, he's totally like on the fringes, right? But Joe Rogan will present a much more, like, believable conversation instead of, you know, a red-faced midlife crisis guy screaming and pounding on his desk.

                                                                                Were some of his claims, like, the women taking the pill and then urinating and flushing that down the toilet is turning the frogs gay, you know, those sorts of things. And you're just like...

                                                                                Turning the frogs gay. Turning the fricking frogs gay, yeah.

                                                                                Yeah.

                                                                                So... But so- But like, you know, banning him, I think, was ultimately good if the goal was to reduce his influence. But then at the same time, you know, a lot of other people popped up who kind of took Alex Jones's place, and some of them had the more reasonable approach.

                                                                                Yeah, which is almost more nefarious, right? Almost more dangerous, when you're not just a complete fruit loop who's 50% of the reason you would watch Alex Jones is just because of the entertainment, right?

                                                                                Yeah, yeah, pretty much.

                                                                                And he clearly just leant into that and was just like, I'm going to just go full whack. I probably don't believe 90% of what I say, but it's getting the views.

                                                                                Yeah. I mean, that's why I- My channel started off covering Del Bigtree so much because he really is the Alex Jones of anti-vaccine world. Like, he'll like- He'll just- He'll do stunts, like he'll take a sack of rice and pour it all out on his desk and just start screaming about like, look at all these pathogens, they want to vaccinate us against all these. And it's like, oh my God, what is this guy doing?

                                                                                It's funny and sad at the same time, but. Anyway, back to like these people like Joe Rogan, who invite experts on who sound reasonable, and he will come off as a very down to earth dude, you know, an MMA bro. It's something that obviously millions of people can listen to, can feel like they relate to his conversations. Yeah, he has a ton of responsibility. He really needs to start taking more ownership for his mistakes, I think.

                                                                                And- I mean, better people need to go on a show, I think that...

                                                                                That's what always blows my mind. I'm like, he's in America, mate. You guys have got 300 million people there, how many of you guys are geniuses? And you also probably have the intellects of the world constantly travelling to the US, like as if their first stop assuming the invitation was there would not be Joe Rogan's podcast. They're going to meet more people than... (both talking) ...You know?

                                                                                Yeah, but the other thing that's really difficult, I think, too, is that people have lost faith in the mainstream media, both sides and our politicians, right? I wanted to ask you about Fauci Gate, right. So, Dr Anthony Fauci is the- What is he, like the head of the medical response in the US? I don't know his exact position.

                                                                                But he was controversial because he came...

                                                                                Yeah, he's head of the...

                                                                                Sorry, you go.

                                                                                ...He's head of the NIAID, the National Institutes of Allergies and infectious disease, it's a branch of the NIH, the National Institutes of Health.

                                                                                Yeah. So, he, I think originally, early on in the pandemic was saying, masks don't work, don't worry about them, don't get them.

                                                                                And it came out later that he flipped and said that they did, but the reason that he was saying they weren't working was because he was worried that nurses and doctors and medical professionals wouldn't have access to PPE, right, the protective gear, which- And this is an argument I have with my sister quite a bit because she works for the government, is quite often like, the average person is a moron.

                                                                                You can't tell them the truth when you want them to do the right thing. And I'll be like, I'm much more of that libertarian side of things where I'm like, I think that your responsibility, if you can't tell someone the truth and have them act on it, you obviously need to work on how you're telling the truth and delivering that information, right? So, how did you feel about that situation?

                                                                                Right. Yeah, I mean, looking back, the way I would tell the story is that, you know, at the beginning, Anthony Fauci was arguably right, you know, you could- In hindsight, you could argue, oh, we should have been wearing masks the whole time, but, you know, we didn't know it was going to turn out to be this bad, so- You could definitely make a reasonable argument that he was absolutely right at that time.

                                                                                Because at the time community transmission wasn't widespread, but, you know, people were mass buying toilet paper, right? So, you can imagine what...

                                                                                We had that happen here, too.

                                                                                ...To wear a mask, right? Yeah. So, if people are stripping the shelves of toilet paper and they're also told you need to wear a mask, they're going to be buying up all the masks, too. And then you really might have a situation where there's not enough PPE for the hospital staff. And if the hospital staff all get sick, then we're in deep trouble, you know?

                                                                                So, that was all well and good, but then I think his mistake and the mistake of public health communicators, and it's easy to say this in hindsight, of course.

                                                                                But I think the mistake was not making it clear that, you know, this is the messaging right now, but it very could easily change, and if it gets to this point, if we start to see COVID spreading really quickly, really fast, then we'll be at a point where everyone should be wearing masks so that we can slow that spread.

                                                                                If that- I think if that was made clearer at the beginning, then we might not have had so many people freak out about Fauci flipping, you know? Because otherwise they're going to have this very high bar for science, right? It's actually a common characteristic of science deniers, they have this unreasonably high bar where in this case, science should have had it right at the beginning.

                                                                                They should have known exactly what to do right away. But we didn't know what the right thing to do was for every moment in the pandemic. And because science changed its messaging when new information came out, that was seen as it being wrong. And so, then they lose trust.

                                                                                Do you want to quickly point out the importance of science being able to adjust, right? I think- I can't remember who tells this story, I think it might be Richard Dawkins or something. But there's a guy who gets up on stage and presents something, and someone in the audience puts his hand up at the end of his lecture and says, what would you say if evidence came out tomorrow completely proving everything you've said is incorrect?

                                                                                And he'd be like, well, I'd shake your hand and be like, thank you for the new knowledge, sir. You know, I'll change my mind, you know?

                                                                                Yeah. I mean, learning new things and changing your views is a really integral part of becoming a science, actually. If I could just like- If I could just document like a supercut of all the times during my PhD, you know, during lab meetings, during meetings with my advisor, or talks that I gave.

                                                                                How many times we were wrong in the course of working through that PhD project and eventually getting to the final answer, which we end up publishing. I mean, it would be like a movie.

                                                                                It would be so long because really, I mean, you're just like, when you're starting from scratch on a scientific problem, you're trying to figure out how things are working, you hit so many dead ends, you hit so many wrong turns, so many different rabbit holes that you go down that lead nowhere until you finally do the one set of experiments that make you go, oh, that's what's going on.

                                                                                I mean, that's at least the way it went for my project and- But that happens with so many projects, and now with the pandemic, you know, that's all public, right. We're starting from scratch with a new virus, we need to figure out so many different things about it and we're going to get things wrong along the way.

                                                                                And that's totally normal for science, that's what science is supposed to do, we're supposed to make predictions and figure out whether or not they are- We're able to falsify them.

                                                                                But I think communicating that uncertainty is really something that scientists could do better in, and we, including myself, have to figure out how to do that better, how to say this is what we know right now, this is what we're figuring out and this is what it might look like when we have the answers.

                                                                                I think, too, a lot of it, you would need...

                                                                                I think that could go a long way.

                                                                                This is what we would need to know to reject what we currently believe, too, right? So, this is how we would determine if we were wrong. A big issue, I find, is that you end up with public figures like, say, Anthony Fauci or, you know, even Trump or whatever politician you want. Once they get into that position, I think they have the unreasonable expectation that they need to be right all the time.

                                                                                And if they're wrong, they have to save face and be right. And the public also have the unrealistic expectation of our politicians and leaders always must be right, and if they get anything wrong or change their minds, they're out. They're done. They're cooked. And it's kind of like...

                                                                                Yeah, right.

                                                                                ...It's just unforgivable, right, in terms of there's no- You can't come forward as a politician and say, you know what? I changed my mind. I was wrong about this. I apologise. I'm sorry. You know, those two things. I changed my mind, and I'm sorry are almost career killers.

                                                                                I can't remember hearing that in recent history from any- From, yeah, any politician honestly.

                                                                                It's the same here. And I think that's the biggest thing, in order to get better politicians and better leaders, you need to- The public needs to be able to forgive people, and also you want to select for people who can change their minds and can show contrition and apologise for things. Like everyone's always like, the politicians we have are bigger dickheads than they've ever been.

                                                                                And you're like, mate, if it's bullshit in, it's bullshit out, right? Like if the public suck, the politicians we get are going to suck.

                                                                                Exactly. It really is a feedback loop, right. Because, I mean, with everything being so polarised, at least in the US, it's like- I can totally imagine if Fauci is a leader and he's doing his best to try to communicate and run things and keep people safe.

                                                                                And then there are all these pieces going around, not just in the public, but through the halls of Congress, where they're just trashing him and- You know, that's got to be really frustrating to be that much in the public eye. I don't envy his job.

                                                                                It must be really hard to have that balance, because I can sit here right now, being a practical nobody and say like, oh, you know, I think he should be more able to communicate the uncertainties and be... (Inaudible/Static)

                                                                                But in that position, when you're feeling the pressure and feeling all the hatred that people are giving you for, you know, sometimes not even making mistakes, sometimes just people taking words out of context, that's got to be- It's got to be tough.

                                                                                Well, I think too, they must get stuck with the whole, if I get voted out or they get turfed, someone else is going to come in and do a shitter job. So, even if I have to lie, even if I have to manipulate the truth or, you know, sometimes speak out of both sides of my mouth, ultimately, I believe that what I'm doing is in the best interest of the public.

                                                                                And so, that's how I justify doing what I need to do to stay in power at all costs, right? I think that's- That must be a big part of how they end up behaving that way and ending up playing a game that I bet when they entered, they're like, I'm never going to do that. That's fucked. And then they realise the only way for me to be able to get here is to keep playing this game, right.

                                                                                Right.

                                                                                Where can people find out more about you and what you're doing if they want to check out your channel and everything like that?

                                                                                Yeah. So, I'm on YouTube. My YouTube channel is "Debunk the Funk with Dr Wilson". I'm on Twitter "@Debunk_the_Funk". My Facebook page is "Doc Wilson debunks", and I'm on Instagram as well. I think that's also at "debunk.the.funk". But if you want to get in touch with me, I have my contact information for the accounts that I check regularly in the description of all my videos.

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                                                                                      The post AE 1123 – Interview: Ivermectin & Hydroxychloroquine & the Ethics of Leaders & Influencers with Big Audiences | with Dr Dan Wilson appeared first on Aussie English.

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                                                                                      AE 1121 – Interview: How Covid Vaccines Work & How We Know They’re Saving Millions of Lives with Dr. Dan Wilson https://aussieenglish.com.au/ae-1121-interview-how-covid-vaccines-work-how-we-know-theyre-saving-millions-of-lives-with-dr-dan-wilson/ https://aussieenglish.com.au/ae-1121-interview-how-covid-vaccines-work-how-we-know-theyre-saving-millions-of-lives-with-dr-dan-wilson/#respond Fri, 11 Mar 2022 08:00:00 +0000 https://aussieenglish.com.au/?p=178696 AE 1121 – INTERVIEW How Covid Vaccines Work & How We Know They’re Saving Millions of Lives with Dr. Dan…

                                                                                      The post AE 1121 – Interview: How Covid Vaccines Work & How We Know They’re Saving Millions of Lives with Dr. Dan Wilson appeared first on Aussie English.

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                                                                                      AE 1121 - INTERVIEW

                                                                                      How Covid Vaccines Work & How We Know They're Saving Millions of Lives with Dr. Dan Wilson

                                                                                      Learn Australian English in each of these episodes of the Aussie English Podcast.

                                                                                      In these Aussie English Interview episodes, I get to chin-wag with different people in and out of Australia!

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                                                                                      In today's episode...

                                                                                      Welcome to this episode of the Aussie English podcast!

                                                                                      We got another man of science in the podcast today!

                                                                                      This guy like me is another science lover – he got his bachelor’s degree in Biotechnology and Molecular Biology from Clarion University and his PhD in Molecular Biology from Carnegie Mellon University.

                                                                                      Meet Dr. Dan Wilson, creator of the YouTube channel Debunk the Funk with Dr. Wilson!
                                                                                      In his channel, he debunks the claims of anti vaxxers, the covid deniers, and various misinformation that’s circling the Internet.

                                                                                      In this second instalment of this 4-part series of interviews, we talk about the technology of different COVID vaccines and how they work.

                                                                                      Like how the body’s immune system works when injected with a vaccine for fighting disease.

                                                                                      How we know the COVID vaccines are safe and effective based on the science. Also, what science has to say about these vaccines, how the scientific method works, and the incentives of scientists and big pharma!

                                                                                      We also discuss why the Pfizer and Moderna mRNA vaccines are so controversial amongst anti-vaxxers.

                                                                                      Lastly, we talk about why, if you could show the vaccines didn’t work using science, you’d become the most famous scientist alive today!

                                                                                      See you in the next episode!

                                                                                       

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                                                                                      Transcript of AE 1121 - Interview: How Covid Vaccines Work & How We Know They're Saving Millions of Lives with

                                                                                      G'day, you mob. Pete here from Aussie English, welcome back to the Aussie English podcast, today is part two of the four-part series where I am interviewing PhD in Molecular Biology, Dr Dan Wilson. Today we discuss the technology of different COVID vaccines and how they work. Why the Pfizer and Moderna mRNA vaccines are so controversial among anti-vaxxers.

                                                                                      How the body's immune system works when injected with a vaccine and for fighting disease more generally. How we know the COVID vaccines are safe and effective based on the science, so what the science has to say about these vaccines.

                                                                                      How the scientific method works, the incentives of scientists and big pharma and why, if you could show the vaccines didn't work using science, you'd become the most famous scientist alive today, and much more. So, without any further ado, guys, slap the bird and let's get into today's episode. Anyway, stepping into your wheelhouse, could you describe the technology behind the different vaccines?

                                                                                      Yeah. Yeah, sure. So, the different COVID vaccines, there are generally two types, now there are- There's a third one coming onto the scene, but the one that everyone knows about are the mRNA vaccines. And, you know, the whole goal of a vaccine is simply to deliver to your cells a foreign piece or pieces of an antigen.

                                                                                      And an antigen is just a foreign protein that your own body doesn't make, it's something that's made by a virus or a bacteria that your immune system can recognise. So, the vaccine is supposed to get the antigen into your cells, into your system so that your immune system can see it and recognise it as foreign.

                                                                                      And that way, it's going to mount an immune response, and that immune response will hopefully result in immune memory so that the next time your immune system sees that antigen, it can quickly and efficiently ramp up its forces, so to speak, to attack the foreign antigen. And so, with mRNA vaccines, what it does is it delivers pieces of genetic material called mRNA, and so- How much detail should I go into here?

                                                                                      MRNA is not DNA, so it's not going to like change your genes or anything. Your own body makes mRNA all the time, your cells have DNA and in order to make that DNA into protein that actually does stuff, it first has to get made into messenger RNA.

                                                                                      And so, the analogy that biology teachers always like to use is it's like DNA is like the library, the database and then if you go into that library and you make a copy of a book and then take it out of the library, that copy is like mRNA. And so, that's what the cell actually reads in order to make protein. And so, the mRNA isn't permanent, obviously, it degrades over time, it's all part of a balance of gene expression that your cells do.

                                                                                      We can take advantage of that and deliver this temporary piece of mRNA into your cells that codes for a protein that SARS-CoV-2 makes. So, once your body starts making that protein at that site of injection, immune cells are going to take up that antigen, they're going to chop it up into little pieces and they're going to present it on their surface.

                                                                                      And then once they have it presented on their surface, they're going to travel along to your lymph nodes. So, lymph nodes around your neck are usually where immune cells from your arm are going to go after an injection. And then in those lymph nodes, a bunch of immunology is going to happen, that's where you're going to get your immune cells learning how to fight the virus, essentially.

                                                                                      That's where you're going to get immune memory cells forming. And then voila, you have immunity. So, that's kind of the gist of the mRNA vaccine technology, it's just delivering the mRNA into the cells so that the cells have a template they can read to- Basically an instruction manual on what the enemy looks like.

                                                                                      Why are they so controversial in comparison to traditional vaccines? Which are vector vaccines, right?

                                                                                      Yeah, so the vector vaccines, they're- They work essentially the same way, except instead of packaging the mRNA into a lipid nanoparticle and delivering the naked mRNA they package genetic material into a harmless virus, and that harmless virus then delivers that genetic material into your cells.

                                                                                      And then you have the whole same process of making the protein, recognising it as foreign, blah blah blah. But yeah, the reason that mRNA vaccines are controversial is because it is technically new technology in the sense that it is just being used on humans for the first time recently, and that sounds scary to a lot of people, right? It's involving genetic material, it's new. What's it going to do to me?

                                                                                      You know, that's why I think a lot of people are afraid of it, but really from a biological standpoint, it is no different in terms- It's not much different in terms of its function than any other vaccine.

                                                                                      So, it's effectively getting the same response from your immune system.

                                                                                      Yeah, it's cutting out the middleman, sort of. So, instead of, you know, packaging the genetic material into a harmless virus and having the harmless virus deliver it, you have this way of taking just that one piece of genetic material that you want your cells to read and make a- Basically, read it as a manual and make a response to delivering that directly to the cells.

                                                                                      And there were lots of molecular challenges to doing that. There are- In some of my videos, I have links to some of the history of that. It's really, really fascinating. Some of the problems that they had to overcome in order to make it work because it's definitely not as simple as what I'm describing.

                                                                                      It sounds so easy, right? Just take the mRNA and deliver it to cells. Why was that always so hard? Well, there's a big story there. But yeah, it's actually- It's- An mRNA vaccine is actually kind of reminiscent of, you know, either a vector vaccine or a live vaccine, because you're delivering material to the cells and your cells are going to actively be producing antigen and responding to it.

                                                                                      So, you know, it's- The concept, the core concepts are still the same, it's just the fact that it's a new technology and has been expressed as such has scared a lot of people.

                                                                                      So, yeah, what would you say about people who say, I'm not sure if these vaccines are safe? How do we determine whether a vaccine is safe? How do we know that the COVID vaccines are safe? And perhaps you know, beyond that, how do we know that they work?

                                                                                      So, the process of a vaccine going from the laboratory to the hospital, we also call it from bench to bedside. That process is extremely, extremely tough for a vaccine to do. It's a very rigorous process. So, after a vaccine is developed, after the scientists think like, hey, this could work, there are several stages that it goes through.

                                                                                      It first goes through pre-clinical trials where it's tested in animals, that was done for COVID vaccines, and then if it's- If it looks good on animals, it's not causing any glaring problems, it seems to be inducing immune responses. Then it moves on to phase one clinical trials, and those are on humans, it's a small group of humans.

                                                                                      And if it looks good then after they figure out dosing and preliminary safety things, then they move on to phase two, which adds more people. And finally, phase three, which involves 40,000 people, 20,000 in vaccine group, 20,000 in the control group, generally numbers in those ballpark- That ballpark range.

                                                                                      And so, at each stage they're testing for safety and efficacy, they're monitoring they're patients, they're following up on them, they're testing certain immune markers to make sure that it's actually doing something. And at the end of all of that, once a vaccine gets approved, it's still intensely monitored. Right, so post-market monitoring is a thing that is done for almost every drug that gets approved.

                                                                                      And there are certain programmes in place specifically for vaccines, in America we have v-safe. You know, you usually hear about VAERS, but programmes like v-safe is the programme that actually goes in and determines which of these reports is legit. Is there any merit to them? Do they actually have connection to the vaccine?

                                                                                      And can we draw any trends from there? So, these programmes are constantly ongoing. You have independent labs all over the world, independent groups all over the world doing their own observational studies on how effective and how safe the vaccines are.

                                                                                      And we've reached a point now where over 10 billion doses of COVID vaccines have been given worldwide, and the consensus from the scientific community despite the- You know, regardless of country, regardless of which government the lab supposedly belongs to, the consensus is the same that COVID vaccines are very safe and they're really effective.

                                                                                      And so, that's how the average person can know that these COVID vaccines are safe, that they've gone through a really stringent and very rigorous time in the spotlight in the scientific community, right, so many different labs, so many different scientists are focussed on COVID because it's such a big front and centre issue right now.

                                                                                      And you can be confident that these really hyper competitive nerds in the scientific community are coming to the same conclusion that means something. Because in reality, every scientist is looking for the next- Their next big break, right. If they find a good finding that rests on strong data, then that's big for them. That's a big paper, that's recognition, that's- That means a lot to them.

                                                                                      But they're not going to go forward with that unless the data are sound. So, if the data all agree on one thing, then, you know, they don't have a reason to say otherwise. They're not going to...

                                                                                      The amount of people...

                                                                                      ...They would.

                                                                                      ...The amount of people that would be required to keep a lid on it, right, would just be...

                                                                                      ...Ridiculous.

                                                                                      ...Would be insane. I think, the one that I often hear about is, Bill Clinton couldn't even get a blowjob in the White House and not have people find out about it. How on earth do you think say, like, you know, we didn't land on the moon or that 911 was an inside job, or that the vaccines don't work, and no one's been able to come forward and prove that.

                                                                                      Because yeah, as you were saying, if you're a good scientist and you had good evidence and good data that supported the vaccines not making a difference, your name would never be forgotten. As the first person to come forward and prove that, the incentives-

                                                                                      People don't seem to realise that the incentives for scientists to do the work and determine that say in this case, the vaccines didn't work and then come forward and publish this data and have it looked at. Yeah, at first, they would probably be scoffed at. But if it was done correctly, and that's what it showed because it was, you know, real, they would be a household name for probably decades.

                                                                                      So, it's one of those things. What would you expect? Okay, imagine the vaccines didn't work and even that they were dangerous. What would be the signals you would expect to have seen since they were starting to be put into people's arms?

                                                                                      Right, so if they didn't work, then we would see no difference between vaccinated and unvaccinated when it comes to COVID deaths, COVID hospitalisations, things like that. Because at the end of the day, those are the two things that vaccines are supposed to prevent. They're not supposed to prevent a positive PCR test, they're meant to prevent disease. That's the way vaccines have always, always been.

                                                                                      Sorry, to pause you there because this is something I was going to ask you about. Can you talk about that a bit more? Because so many people will say, even if you get vaccinated, you can get infected. Or even if you get vaccinated, you can transmit the disease to someone else, so what's the point?

                                                                                      So, on that first point, "you can still get infected." I mean, I think people need to understand just how far molecular techniques have come since our last pandemic. I mean, I guess the last pandemic was H1N1 in 2009, I think. But that never really reached emergency standards, at least not in hindsight.

                                                                                      It didn't really make a big splash. But my point is we haven't had a huge pandemic while we have really good molecular diagnostic techniques. So, now we're looking everywhere for the virus. We're looking for this virus more than we have ever looked for any virus in the past in humans.

                                                                                      So, imagine what that would be like during polio times, like if we were to go back in time and do the same thing for polio. We would find that polio vaccines don't stop you from testing positive for polio. You could still get infected by polio if you've been vaccinated, but you don't get paralysed, you don't die. That's the point. Right.

                                                                                      So, that concept, I think, is kind of hard for people to wrap their heads around, and again, it's kind of on the- It's a little bit on the shoulders of science communicators, too, because those phase three clinical trials for COVID vaccines, they looked at whether or not people test positive, whether or not they get symptomatic disease.

                                                                                      And so, that's a really high bar for vaccines to reach, and at the very beginning of your immune response where your antibody titres are really high, you're going to be able to prevent infection. But over time, those antibody titres, the immune system is going to contract, it's not going to constantly spend the energy to keep those antibody levels up.

                                                                                      If it did that for every disease you're immune against there wouldn't be any room in your blood for all the antibodies. So, it's a way of your body conserving space and energy by having your immune system contract.

                                                                                      Once the immune system contracts, though, you're not going to be able to prevent infection, but your immune system is going to be able to respond fast enough next time you get infected to prevent that disease and also reduce the risk of transmission.

                                                                                      So, yes, you can still test positive for COVID, but you're less likely to spread it, you're less likely to test positive in the first place, and you're a whole lot less likely to get hospitalised or die if you're vaccinated. And those are the real big reasons that I think a lot of anti-vaxxers don't end up seeing. Was that- Was that all the...

                                                                                      That's sort of what I wanted to know there, because that's- That idea of if you get vaccinated, you suddenly have this magic force shield that prevents any kind of virus or disease that you've been vaccinated against entering your body at all. And it's like, no, you still inhale it. You still, you know, eat it. It gets into your system and your system then responds, but it doesn't prevent you from 1) getting it.

                                                                                      It then replicating at least a little bit, right, to be able to get a response going in your body. And in that time you still have the ability to transmit it, but it's usually nipped in the bud a lot quicker, right, than someone who isn't vaccinated. And so, you end up with reduced disease and reduced transmissibility.

                                                                                      Yes, and we've seen that, we've seen those data where people have measured viral- Shedding a viral RNA over time and vaccinated and unvaccinated people, and you can see that vaccinated people just clear the virus a lot faster.

                                                                                      And we had a study that was published, I think today that came out with, Queensland, one of our northern states found that the people that are getting a booster are 20 times less likely to transmit the disease. They still can but the rate at which it happens is 20 times less, you know. And so, it's not negligible. It's insane, right?

                                                                                      Definitely. Yeah. And that number is probably going to come down, but it's still going to be a decreased risk of transmission. Right. So, you know, people who say, oh, you can still get COVID, you can still transmit it, you know, that's not unders- That's a view that doesn't understand all the stuff we just talked about and also just the basic concept that nothing is 100% effective.

                                                                                      So, going back to the original question there. What would you expect to see if the vaccines were actually harmful? When and how soon would you expect to see, you know, a lot of, say, negative side effects of the vaccine?

                                                                                      Because yeah, I have a lot of friends who would say it's actually harmful, it's bad for you. And I'm like, well, when are you meant to see that? Is that the first few days? The first month? Is that 20 years from now? When is your sort of claim about when the negative side effects kick in?

                                                                                      So, you would see it really fast. And I'll make two points on that. All adverse reactions to vaccination occur within eight weeks of getting the dose. And the reason is because your body is either going to have an allergic reaction really fast to the contents of the vaccine, so if you're allergic to a component and you have an allergic reaction, that's going to happen...

                                                                                      And that's why they have you sit there for 15 minutes afterwards, right?

                                                                                      Yes. Yeah, that's part of the reason. Definitely. So, that's going to happen pretty fast or you're going to get side effects from your immune response. Right. So, things like the fever, the chills, the body aches, that's all your immune response reacting to a foreign substance. Even when you're sick, that's your immune response making you feel that way.

                                                                                      And so, your body can create adverse events as your immune system reacts, but- Well, kind of what we just touched on, your immune response only lasts a certain amount of time and then you're left with immune memory. Right.

                                                                                      So, your immune system is not going to suddenly freak out 10 years from now because you had a COVID vaccine and caused some crazy thing to happen. It just doesn't work like that. That's what we've observed with every vaccine. It's always within eight weeks after you get the dose.

                                                                                      So...

                                                                                      Is that including things-? Sorry to interrupt you. Is that including things like the blood clot issues and myocarditis, pericarditis that's happening with and, you know, very, very, very small percentage of people, it's like one in a few million people, right, with these different vaccines.

                                                                                      Yeah, I was actually going to go into that next because if you remember back in April of 2021, around that time, when the Johnson and Johnson vaccine was rolled out in America it was pretty quick, a few weeks, I think. I don't remember exactly how fast, but it was a few weeks before they realised that out of the six million doses that have been given at that time, they had six cases of blood clotting that was serious.

                                                                                      And it was at that point that they said, let's pause. Let's wait a week, let's see if these blood clots continue after we pause the JNJ shot so that we can be sure that the vaccine is actually causing it. And let's use this time to figure out how to detect and treat this. And that's what happened.

                                                                                      So, they saw- They were- They concluded that the blood clotting issue was in fact from the vaccine, and they got a better idea of how to treat it. So, unfortunately, you know, some have died from the JNJ shot. I think, the last number that I was aware of was nine people out of millions of doses given. And we don't want to just dismiss that, we want to say, how do we make these vaccines safer?

                                                                                      And as you can see from that story, you know, that's what they, meaning the public health officials, the pharmaceutical companies, that's what they're trying to do.

                                                                                      I think a big, big part there was the education, right, of being like, as soon as- Like, when I walked in to get vaccinated for the first time it was, here are two pamphlets. Read them. Now we're going to take you into a room, you need to sit down with a nurse. The nurse is going to tell you about the risks, and you know, she's going to say, do you wish to proceed?

                                                                                      Now that you know the information you need to sign- Like, so it wasn't just here's the vaccine, F-off. It was a full process of look, here are the risks. You need to make an educated decision based on this. If you have no medical issues or allergies that would otherwise make us think the vaccine could cause these issues in you, then you know, it's your choice at the end of the day.

                                                                                      It was mind blowing because, yeah, for- I made a video about like why I regretted getting AstraZeneca, and it was kind of a bait and switch where I showed that, you know, look, I was scared because of the blood clots. But then when I actually looked at the stats, it was like getting into a car I have 44 times more like probability of dying than if I were to get the vaccine and, you know, die from blood clots, so.

                                                                                      And yet I never think about that risk, right, of getting into a car and going driving, but it's much more likely that I'll die in that. It would- It's almost like- I feel like it's one of those arguments where someone's driving a car and then they suddenly hear about how an airbag killed someone by snapping their neck when the car accident happened, and they say, well, screw that, I'm riding a motorbike from now on.

                                                                                      And your kind of like, you've just increased your chances of dying 36 times, but it's not going to be from an airbag. So, yeah, you're right, you know? But...

                                                                                      Exactly.

                                                                                      And so, it feels like that with the vaccine, right, where you're sort of like, okay, look, yeah, 100% there are these very, very rare cases where people unfortunately have passed away from myocarditis and blood clotting. But not taking the vaccine your chances of dying from COVID are very, very high, I mean, at least if we don't adjust the age.

                                                                                      Exactly. Yes. And- Yeah, so I think, you know, the fact that one in a million blood clot case was caught early on should hopefully tell people that these post-market monitoring systems are working and that they're acted upon because again, the JNJ shot was paused and then recommendations were made.

                                                                                      And now even there's a preferential recommendation for children to get mRNA vaccines instead of the JNJ shot, because there is that minuscule risk of blood clotting.

                                                                                      Yeah.

                                                                                      And the other thing, you mentioned education, it's- That's also something that can really, you know, 1) dispel fear, but also be really helpful, because if someone were to... (distorted) ...Of that blood clotting issue with something like the JNJ shot. If they know what to look for, if they know that, okay, if I start to feel pain and I start to feel light-headed or this or that, then I know to go to the doctor, and then...

                                                                                      Exactly.

                                                                                      ...Get treatment sooner and you could possibly save your life. So, it's much- Again, it goes back to like doing the work of understanding all of these things rather than just reading the headline about how blood clots are associated with the JNJ shot and being afraid of that.

                                                                                      But then at the same time not recognising the risks of the thousands and hundreds of thousands and millions of people who are suffering and dying of COVID, you know, over the course of the pandemic.

                                                                                      Yeah, it is, difficult too, I think, because people are- Going back to what we were talking about with science education at the start. They're not equipped to understand that ambiguity and that you have to kind of 1) do the work to understand why the information you're receiving is right or wrong.

                                                                                      But then quite often there are trade-offs. Nothing is black and white. There's never, really ever a "this is perfect and there's no side effects, and this other thing is imperfect and absolutely horrible." It's always going to be like, well, you need to decide based on your personal situation, what you need to do. I'm aware of your time. Are you okay to hang around for a little bit longer or have you gotta bail?

                                                                                      Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think we- Sorry, we've gone- I've gone into a lot of stuff here, a lot of rambling, but...

                                                                                      No, no, no. I appreciate it.

                                                                                      I forgot to ask just before while we're on the vaccine thing. When I was talking to my friend and I mentioned that I changed my mind on vaccinating my children based on the science, he freaked. He absolutely freaked out and was like, why the hell would you do that? That's child abuse. You're a horrible human being. What-? What does the science say about- I guess, you know, there's going to be a trade-off.

                                                                                      But the- Now, at least based on the limited amount of research that I've done, it seems like it's a better option to have your children vaccinated against COVID, the argument being that they're going to come across it eventually. Why would you take the chance? And they could transmit it to other people. Anyway, what are your thoughts on that and what does the science sort of have to say now about having children vaccinated?

                                                                                      Yeah, definitely. So, I mean, I have a nine-month-old right now, and my plan is to get her vaccinated as soon as I can, essentially for the reasons you talked about, but I can elaborate on it a little. We know that SARS-CoV-2 is a virus that's going to be with us for a very long time, if not forever. It's not going to go away; our children are going to come into contact with it eventually.

                                                                                      It could be when they're still young or it could be, you know, in the middle of their lives that they first encounter it. And no matter what the case may be, you would want to protect them, right? Because I mean, I can't imagine my child being infected with COVID and possibly needing to go to the hospital. I mean, I know- I actually do know parents who have had their toddlers go to the hospital for COVID.

                                                                                      It's not fun, it's not something that I would want for anybody. So, we know that COVID vaccines are actually really safe for younger age groups, for age groups 5 to 11. I believe last time I looked at the data you'd be hard pressed to find any cases of myocarditis, it had a very good safety profile.

                                                                                      And right now they're testing- They're doing a little more tests for ages 2 to 5 in America, but for ages 2 and under, the safety profile was also really good and the effect- The efficacy was really good. They had a really good immune response. For ages 2 to 5, the immune response wasn't so great because essentially it has to do with dosing. Children are getting a lower dose than adults for the COVID vaccines.

                                                                                      Proportionately or overall?

                                                                                      Overall, so it's about a third of the dose for Pfizer, at least. So, it looks like that one third dose for small children under 2 is enough, induces enough of an immune response. But for children who are a little bigger 2 to 5, it looks like it's not quite enough, so they're tweaking it a little bit right now. Anyway, that's a little bit more of a tangent...

                                                                                      What would you say to people who would say, you know- And this is one of these sort of responses I get. The only people dying of COVID are old and weak.

                                                                                      You know, it's not going to be your children, it's not going to be healthy people up to the age of 50 or 60. So, again, 1) that the vaccine is pointless for anyone who's healthy and how you determine that, I don't know. And it's pointless for children. What are the kind of arguments or what's the science have to say about that?

                                                                                      Yeah, I hate that. I hate that. It's...

                                                                                      Well, my first response is always, don't you know anyone who's old and weak? Like.

                                                                                      Yeah, I mean that is the first response that I would say. I mean, it's totally insensitive to the people who are old, to the people who are vulnerable. You know, I- I mean, my parents are, what, in their late sixties, early seventies now. They could easily live another 20 years, if COVID came along now and took them away. Man, that would suck. I would- I'd be devastated.

                                                                                      Well, I've got two grandparents in their 90s and I think I worked out that if they both got COVID, there'd be a 30% chance one of them would die. Like, it was like 50% chance that if you were over 19, you got COVID, you die. And I'm like, are you really willing to roll that dice? Like as a grandson, as a great grandson. Like.

                                                                                      Yeah, and you don't want that. Why? The idea that people could just be cold to that, like, oh, like, oh, well, you're old. You're SOL, whatever. Like, that's so- I don't know, that's just so cold to me. So, yeah, you don't want people who are a little bit older to die, that still matters.

                                                                                      And then also, it's- I'd say that younger people are dying, too. Right. There was a paper even back in 2020, showing that in the US, there was a significant excess death in the age group of like 25 to 44. So much so that it was greater than the number of opioid deaths in that age group, which is pretty significant.

                                                                                      So, younger people are also at risk. You know, I think in the US- I think we're approaching a thousand children have died in the US of COVID at this point, confirmed. That matters, I'm sure those thousand families, I mean, you think of how many people a thousand people...

                                                                                      Yeah.

                                                                                      ...Is. That matters. I don't think you can just dismiss that.

                                                                                      Well, and how I do- How do you not- How do you know whether your child won't become quote unquote "weak", you know, in the future, if you decide, okay, I'm not getting them vaccinated. And then next week, God forbid, they end up with, you know, a disability or a disease or something that leaves them vulnerable to it. And then they come into contact with COVID shortly after, before they have a chance to be vaccinated.

                                                                                      Again, you're effectively having to decide, are you willing to roll that dice on your kid, you know, into the future and you have to weigh up the benefits. If there's very, very little chance of the vaccine actually causing any harm, let alone killing the child, but there's, you know, bigger payoffs that, again, you have to obviously do the work and see what the science says.

                                                                                      You just make as a gambler; you should just be making the most educated decision based on what's going to prolong their life.

                                                                                      Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think that- There's a Doctor, Paul Offit who puts it best, he says that a choice to not vaccinate is a choice to take more risk.

                                                                                      Yeah.

                                                                                      And that's regardless of age group, because even if you, like, even not thinking about deaths, beyond deaths, you know, COVID isn't harmless. COVID can have several adverse health effects, many of which we don't fully understand yet.

                                                                                      This is long COVID, right?

                                                                                      Long COVID and also- I just released a video earlier this week where I reference a paper that followed veterans who had COVID for one year, they followed them for one year, and they found that veterans who, among this group, ones who are hospitalised or went to the ICU, their risk of cardiovascular disease or outcomes was significantly increased within that year.

                                                                                      So, risks of heart attacks, risks of ischaemic strokes, risks of- Oh, my God, I'm blanking on these words right now. Risk of arrhythmia. That's what I'm looking for. Myocarditis goes in there as well. All of those things were greatly increased in the year following COVID infection for these people. And that's significant, that's going to increase risk and also health burden.

                                                                                      So, that's in addition to the long COVID things that people are more familiar with. Children are vulnerable to something called multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children. It's something where essentially after someone is infected with COVID and the virus is getting cleared, they're feeling- They're starting to feel better. Suddenly, their immune system has a big reaction and that throws everything out of whack and causes a lot of problems.

                                                                                      And that's happened in a lot of children as well, so it's not good. It's not fun. And if you can avoid that, why not do it?

                                                                                      Yeah, I think that's it, you need to do the work. Go in and find out what the pros and cons are, and yeah, based on what I understand now, I feel like there are way more cons to not having your children vaccinated, to having them vaccinated. So, yeah, where can people find out more about you and what you're doing if they want to check out your channel and everything like that?

                                                                                      Yeah, so I'm on YouTube. My YouTube channel is "Debunk the Funk with Dr Wilson". I'm on Twitter "@Debunk_the_Funk". My Facebook page is "Doc Wilson debunks" and I'm on Instagram as well, I think that's also at "debunk.the.funk". But if you want to get in touch with me, I have my contact information for the accounts that I check regularly in the description of all my videos.

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                                                                                            The post AE 1121 – Interview: How Covid Vaccines Work & How We Know They’re Saving Millions of Lives with Dr. Dan Wilson appeared first on Aussie English.

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