Transcript of AE 934 - Interview: Japanese vs Australian Culture & Growing Up a Global Citizen with David Rajaraman

Welcome to this episode of Aussie English. Today it is a special interview episode where I am interviewing my dear friend David Rajaraman, who is of Indian descent. He grew up in Brunei. He then came to Australia and studied aeronautics at university up in Queensland. He then ended up in Japan teaching English. He speaks four languages and he's just had an incredible life. And the guy's only in his mid 30s.

So, absolutely incredible guest, I was so pleased when he agreed to come on the podcast and share his thoughts about growing up globally as a global citizen, learning multiple languages, his sense of identity and then also this one is for the Japanese fans of the podcast, because I wanted to get someone who hadn't grown up in Japan but was living there and was learning the language and had dived into the culture.

I was wanting to get someone like that to come on the podcast and as an outsider, be able to compare both Japanese and Australian culture to one another. So, without any further ado, guys, smack the bird. Let's get into it. So, I've been practising something, Ohayōgozaimasu.

Woah. Nailed it, dude.

And then what have I got to say? Watashi no yūjin.

Uh huh.

Nailed it.

Good morning, my friend. Yeah.

Is that correct or is that Google correct? Where you go and search this stuff and have no idea of what the actual grammar is.

That's Google correct.

I knew it. I knew it. Oh, man. All right. So, let me introduce you. David Rajaraman, I met you recently. Well, not recently, I've been following you for a few years now on Instagram and all of the social media stuff. And you are of Indian descent, came to Australia and then later on moved to Japan, was teaching English in Japan. And now I think most recently you were telling me you've become a mechanic or working for a car company.

Yeah, that's right.

So, for obvious reasons, you have an incredibly interesting story to tell, and I also wanted to do something related to Japan as Japan is one of the countries that download the podcast the most.

So, I thought it would be really cool today to chat to you about your experience, obviously, you know, growing up of Indian descent, you got educated in Australia and then moving to Japan and what that sort of whole experience was like and a little bit about identity, you know. Do you see yourself as Indian, Australian, as a global citizen? And then maybe a little bit about cultural differences between Japan and Australia.

So, how did you get here? To start there. How did you get here?

To Australia? Okay. So, I was- I'm Indian. That's right. But I'm born- I was born and raised in Brunei, a tiny little country in Southeast Asia. And the norm in Brunei for anyone who's a foreigner would be to go abroad for university. Brunei had like one university, which is run by the government. My dad used to work there, he was a lecturer. But because Brunei was just this tiny little country in the middle of nowhere, almost- Like their-.

A lot of their degrees aren't internationally recognised. So, if you're going to be- If you're planning to stay in Brunei and work there, then it's fine to go to university there. But if you plan to get a degree that's going to open up opportunities all over the world, you typically go somewhere else.

And if you want to do university education in English, then your options are going to be Australia, the UK, Canada, New Zealand and the United States. Right. And Australia at the time, this was 2005-2006, 2005 when I was applying for admissions.

It sounds like you're about my age. Are you 34-35?

I'm 33. I was born in '87, so...

Yeah. So was I.

...Oh, okay. So, we're about the same age.

I was wondering because I'm like, 2005, that was when I finished high school and was applying for universities as well.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's cool. That's cool. Which month in '87?

April. So, I just turned 34.

Oh, happy birthday, man.

Thank you. How did you know?

That's cool. So, yeah, in 2005 was when I was applying and, you know, going back and forth with my dad about where to go, which university to pick. Australia was like the most attractive option at the time with the exchange rate, the way it was at the time, and also where Australia is located, how diverse it is culturally, you know, a lot of the major cities, it just made sense. It was more affordable.

We had less of a time difference between Brunei and Australia. So, we picked that and I ended up going to Griffith University in Brisbane.

Yep.

Yep.

So, what language or languages were you raised to speak when you were in Brunei?

I'd say English was probably my first language, like all the way through. I did- We did speak Tamil at home, which is my mother tongue, but you know, that's all it was, I just spoke it at home. I never studied it, never got to an academic level. So, at this- Even right- Even today, I can't use Tamil let's say in a formal business context, I wouldn't be able to deliver a speech at a wedding or something like that in Tamil...

This sounds like my Portuguese. Well, it's a similar sort of thing, I use it in the home, but I don't really use it for any sort of professional related area or anything like that.

So, it is funny how you can obviously have a mother tongue from your parents that you're raised to speak at home, which is, I think, the case more and more now as people that are born in Australia with migrant parents, they tend to learn the language, but they never get to the same level as their parents because they never end up using it that way.

It's a communication amongst family members, but not an actual language for education or for business or anything like that. Usually it's just English straight away.

Exactly. Exactly. So, like there is its own unique script, I can't read- I mean, I can read it. But the other weird thing about Tamil is the written form of the language is as different to the spoken form as like Shakespeare and modern English. So, even the grammar is different, the pronunciation is different.

Great.

So- And I can't use the written form of it.

Wow. Yeah, I'm looking it up now on Google, it is one of those very, very beautiful curvy kind of writing systems. Writing systems, right?

Yeah, it is phonetic, so it's pretty easy to learn how to read it. So, you can just like sound off anything and if you know the word you can sound it off and write it. Problem is that if all you know is spoken Tamil, you write things exactly the way you speak, you'll be, you know, raising a few eyebrows when people actually read your work.

Well, it's so interesting how that tends to happen with most languages, I think, right. They'll be- It may differ to varying degrees, but, you know, like if I were to try and write a formal speech in Portuguese with the Portuguese that I know I would sound like an idiot or someone who was being very informal because that's the only part of the language I really use, I haven't practised any of the other stuff.

But it's always really interesting to see the divergence between the two. And I'm sure English still has that kind of thing where you would, you know, if you're writing a formal email, to whom it may concern, when would you ever use that in spoken English? Right. But for whatever reason, we use that to be polite in writing. So, it's always really interesting to see how these things differ. But it differs a lot in Tamil, huh?

Yeah, it's like a totally different language almost. It is still used. Obviously it's used in schools and academics and on the news. So, you could turn on the news in India or even in like Malaysia where they've got Tamil news channels, the way that they're speaking and delivering the news would be totally different to how they would speak day-to-day. And so, there's that and then there's Malay, which is the national language of Brunei.

I was- I took that as a subject, but all my other subjects in school were taught in English and being- And Brunei, being a little bit of a melting pot, you know, I had like half of the students in any given classroom would be non-locals or would be expats or foreigners from various parts of Asia. And our common language was English.

So, is that similar to Indonesian where you will say things like "pagi" for like Good Morning and "malam" for evening?

Yeah, yeah. It's- It is the same language in a different dialect you could say.

Yeah. Crazy. So, you were learning those and I think you speak a fourth language, right?

Japanese now because I live here in Japan...

Yeah.

...And I work here. So, yeah.

Far out. So- Yeah, I don't know where to go from this area. What was it like when you came to Australia from Brunei? Were things a massive shock, was there a lot of culture shock or had you sort of grown up a pretty international kind of young kid who had a good idea of what Western countries were like or what Australia was like?

I think- I didn't have much- I didn't have too much of a shock because, first of all, I think Australia is very similar to what I would imagine a Western country to be like, you know, just from everything I was fed through the media. Obviously, everybody spoke English. People are polite and friendly, even out in public. And they all have Australian accents, which is probably the only kind of surprise-

Or not surprise, but the only thing that's different to...

You had to adapt to it, huh. You had to get used to it.

The cool thing is that I went in my- I think it was an upper secondary and through my A-levels or like high school.

Yeah.

I went to an international school where a lot of the teachers were Australian.

Oh, brilliant.

And so, we, you know, even before going to Australia, I did get like a little bit of a preview into, you know, the Australian accent and Australian slang terms and things like that, and a little bit about the culture and the food and things. So, yeah.

So, what was it like when you stepped off the plane and, you know, set up shop at Griffith University and was sort of settling in? Did it take long to sort of feel at home? Did you ever feel at home or what was that experience like?

Dude, I felt at home instantly. Like it just felt like I had more people who were like my teachers, like my high school teachers around me, all at once. And then- And also the fact that, you know, it's a university campus where in Australia, you know, one of Australia's biggest exports I heard is there a tertiary education.

100%

...Huge revenue from international students. So, you know, being on campus, I've met other people. I actually bumped into some other people from Brunei, just like randomly.

Yeah.

I just randomly bumped into people who were from my school.

Oh, wow. okay, wow. That's a little different from just my country, right?

Yeah. Yeah. There's this one kid, he wasn't a kid then. But he used to sit next to me in grade three and we were friends. And I think it was after grade three, I moved to a different school from grade four onwards. And so, we, you know, at grade three your not like, we didn't have mobile phones. We weren't keeping contact. He just used to sit next to me and that's all I knew about him.

Grade three, what would that have been? Like 1996, right. Like a long time ago before the Internet almost.

Yeah. Yeah. So, I just randomly bumped into this guy on my university campus and I recognised him and I just went, and he kind of looked at me funny when we made eye contact. And then I just stopped and asked like, are you him? And I said his name. And he goes, Yeah. And then he says, my name. He goes, I was like, dude, what are you doing here? And, you know.

I was waiting for you to say something like, oh, man, I always hated you.

So, that was cool. That was real cool.

It's- I guess that's literally, you know, the meaning behind the expression, it's a small world.

Yeah. Yeah.

You were like, I've moved to the other side of the planet and I'm still bumping into people I know.

Yeah, yeah, that was cool. And I still had, like tons of my other friends from some of my classmates who are at University of Queensland, so, you know, we were still in the same city and we were able to meet up and hang out, you know, on the weekends and things like that. So, it didn't take long for me to feel at home at all.

Well, Queensland often gets a bad wrap as being an incredibly racist part of Australia. And, you know, that Australia too, tends to get a bad wrap at times being considered a very racist place. But I'm always interested to hear about this from the perspective of people who've chosen to come to Australia, who are of different races or different backgrounds, because on the one hand, we see in the media a lot all these sorts of stories about racism.

But on the other hand, you see people voting with their feet to come to Australia and want to live in Australia and, you know, making a go of it and everything. Did you ever experience, you know, a significant amount of racism or anything like that up in Queensland or in Australia as a whole, was it different from anywhere else in the world? Or is that just sort of- Is it sort of a stereotype that we latch onto a little bit?

I- You know, I was in Australia for six years and not once did I experience any kind of explicit racism, and there was one thing that happened, it was just that once in that period of six years, and I think- I would suspect that it was racism, but I can't- It's not something that I can know for sure. And however, I did have this one housemate, he was from China and he was studying at the same university. He was an accounting student.

He said, you know, I know for a fact that he's been the target of possibly racist attack because he'd ride his bicycle to university. And there's been a couple of times where, like, just this random car would kind of slow down next to him as he's riding and have eggs thrown at him.

Jesus.

And then also there's been times where he's had, you know, racist insults, you know, thrown at him, just again from some random stranger in a car while he's riding his bicycle.

Yeah.

So, like, I've heard of that sort of thing happening. It's never happened to me. And at the same time, like, I do think- I think just based on my observations, when some sort of a racist altercation occurs and it's being reported in the media, I think like a big deal is made out of it by the media, because it is- It's a juicy story, right. I don't blame them.

I think comparing the narrative about racism in the media when things like that happen and, you know, comparing that to my experience over six years, I definitely think there's a disconnect. I think it is exaggerated in the media and it's not reflective of what I actually saw.

It's funny how often that happens though with the media, right. I think there was another example of America and worrying about rape on campus, you know, and people with their stories of like one in four women are raped. And your kind of like, well, why are there so many women still going to university? This sounds like it's the most dangerous place in the world to be a woman.

So, if these statistics were true, why on earth is anyone sending their children to a university if they have daughters? So, it was really funny that the media was like, you know, massively spinning things. But back to Australia, did you get to travel around much and see much of the country whilst you were here for as long as you were?

Yeah, the weird thing is, you know, when I was there, I never actually travelled because I chose to. It usually be because...

Your forced.

...Usually be because one of my friends, you know, who's got- Who's into that habit of, you know, going somewhere on holiday when we get like a long break or something. He would invite me to go along with them. And so, like, I've been to- Where was it? It's someplace in near Melbourne. Blue Mountains. They're called the Blue Mountains. They've got ski resorts and stuff there.

Near Sydney.

Okay, so it's not near Melbourne.

It's about an 11 hour drive.

But, no, that's right. Okay, so I say it's near Melbourne because we actually flew to Melbourne, rented cars and then drove from there to the Blue Mountains. Or no, was it the other way around? I think we flew to Sydney, drove to- Yeah, drove there from the Blue Mountains and then drove to Melbourne and flew back to Brisbane. So, it was this really cool trip. So, I went there.

I've been to Byron Bay a few times, which is just over the border in New South Wales, coming from Queensland, and that's about it. I never went to Ayres Rock, which is like the absolute must go place if you're a tourist in Australia.

Man, I've never been there. I want to go there, but I've never been.

I heard you can't go there anymore or you can't climb the rock anymore.

Oh, you can't climb it. No, no, no. So, the local indigenous people closed that down because it was a massive sort of disrespect thing where they see the rock as very, you know, a holy and religiously significant. And so, you know, for decades they've been saying, don't climb it, you're effectively scarring it because it had, you know, metal poles shoved in the side of it, so people could climb up on it.

And so, yeah, for a long time. But I think that was October of 2019, I think that they finally closed it down. But yeah, my dad's been to the top, he climbed it. But he was sort of- He had to because he went there as a school teacher and all of the students, you know, wanted to go up there.

So, he had to and he was like, it's screwed up. You go to the top of Ayers Rock and your kind of like, the only thing I'm here to see is Ayers Rock and I'm on top of it. It's the one thing I can't see. So, what the hell- And it's such an arduous climb, it's like hundreds of metres high. You don't realise. And the climb to get up it, at least initially because it's shaped like a loaf of bread. Right.

You know, that the sides are really, really steep. And so, it's like forty five degrees, you know, of an angle that you got to climb up with a chain and everything. People have died on it because they have heart attacks climbing up. I think it's like, you know, six people have died in history or something, just climbing up it and getting heatstroke and having a heart attack, so.

Anyway, yeah, that's closed down. If you want to do that sort of thing, you want to see the top of Ayers Rock get a- Pay 50 bucks or whatever it is to get on the helicopter and then just fly around it. But yeah, man, if you come back to Australia, maybe we'll have to do that together.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. For sure.

So, what were you studying in Australia and what was it like to study here?

It was- I was doing aviation management and the question about what's it like to study in Australia, I'd say it is expensive.

Well, especially, I think we've had this chat. Especially if you're studying anything in the realm of aviation.

Yeah, I think if you're studying anything in the realm of aviation, it really blows it up. But I think in general, like education in Australia is expensive. It's not as bad as the United States.

Oh, man. Especially not for the locals. Right. So for me, when I went through, it was effectively free, but I had to get a loan from the government that I only then have to pay back once I make a certain level of income and they'll only take a certain part off. But if you're a foreign student, then you've got to pay full fee up front. In America, yeah, they have the massive-

You get a loan, but it's usually like, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars for a four year degree. And so, it's like a house. For my- I did an undergrad for four years, a master's degree for two years, and then my PhD, which was seven-six years, six years and all up for the entire thing, I don't think I actually had to pay anything for the PhD, but for my entire education, it was $36,000 at university. That was it. You know, and...

Is that what you owe as your loan payback?

Yeah, that's all I owe. So, the total that I- I mean, it's less than that because I've been paying it off. But I think when I remember looking it up after I finished my master's degree for the subjects, because each subject you had to pay for effectively and it was like, you know, $800-$1,000. But for the entire- I guess that would have been six years worth of, you know, eight subjects a year, it was $36,000 for me. And I remember being astonished.

I was expecting when I opened up, you know, the government website being like, I'm going to get slapped with something huge. But then saw that was like, oh my gosh, woah, privilege, like, lucky to be Australian.

Yeah. So, but I think even for international students, I think, I mean, the reason why my Dad and I chose Australia was because it was way more affordable than the other choices we had to do a degree in English. So, in that sense, it is affordable.

But I think, you know, being a high school student, having no responsibility whatsoever, living with my parents up until 16 or, no, 18 and then suddenly having to, you know, manage my own finances, manage my own bills, my rent, and have the freedom to do whatever I want is I think, like a big change to have to adjust to.

It's a shock to the system. And I can't imagine doing that in a foreign country, let alone like, I obviously went through the same thing of turning 18, finishing high school and then suddenly moving a hundred kilometres away from my parents and getting, you know, how ever much money it was just injected into my bank account on a monthly basis to pay for rent, to pay for food, to pay for transport, you know, everything like that.

But no longer having anyone else that was responsible for it. Right. No one else gave a shit. It was you and you alone. And if you spent all your money on booze and pizza, you had to wait a month or get a job. Right. So, yeah, it was a big shock to the system. So, you went through the same thing, except you were in a foreign country as well, right?

Yeah, yeah. And- I mean, fortunately, I wasn't that crazy with like partying and, you know, spending my money irresponsibly or recklessly. But I think, like, the way it worked is whenever I needed money, I would just have to call my dad and tell him how much. And as long as the amount was reasonable, like it made sense. Like I wasn't asking- As long as I wasn't asking for like, you know, hundreds of thousands every week.

That's it. I just need to get my new Ferrari. The old one crashed.

And- Yeah. So, like, and he was really generous. So, he would just be like, yeah, okay, you know, I'll send it off today and you'll receive it in a week or something. And still, I just felt guilty asking my dad for the amount of money I actually needed to cover my bills and to pay my tuition. It just didn't- Like to me I felt like, why does it cost so much for just rent and food? Like how does this even make sense?

Because the cost of living in Brunei compared to Australia is so much more affordable, so...

I had that shock in reverse when I went to Indonesia to do field work for about two months. And I remember it was so funny getting off the plane and, you know, you want to go and buy something to drink or something to eat. And the weird thing in Indonesia was that it's kind of like the society is separated by class. And so, you would be able to find malls that you could go into and there would be Starbucks and it would be the same price as Australia.

And you'd be like, wait, what? But then the moment you would go outside and buy street food or anything, it would be like a tenth the price that you have just inside that mall. So, seeing those next to one another was really weird because you were kind of like, oh, shit, there's a whole group of people in society here that just never go into that building because they- That's- A day's pay would be their coffee.

Yeah.

And then there's another group that just never talk to or have anything to do with the people outside that sort of building on the street. It was very weird getting used to that. But I remember, yeah, buying street food and getting used to getting a bit of money out of the ATM, you know, the equivalent of $10 Australian and it would be many notes and it would last you a day or two.

And then coming home and I remember going to the supermarket and being like, what the fuck. $50! $50! Like, you know, that would have been like a week's worth of food. This is, you know, I bought some milk and chips. What the hell.

That said though, I think because Australia has such a strong agricultural industry. Like my mum- My mum came with me when like and she was with me for a week in Australia, just helping me get settled in and stuff. You know, we went to the grocery store and my mum was like a kid in a candy store because she's super thrifty. And she was the kind of mum who would like save every little penny.

Like she would have this list of probably three different grocery stores that we would shop at and there would be a different day of the week we would go to each one. And sometimes like when I'd go with her, I'd be like, hey, mum, do you know we're going to be out of milk soon? Should I get some milk? And she'd be like, no. We're not going to buy milk at this store because tomorrow we're going to that other store where it's two cents cheaper.

And I'm like, it's two cents cheaper. She goes, yep, because we're going to save every penny wherever we can. And she was so excited, like I kid you not she actually bought, I think it was cauliflower and a bunch of other vegetables and fruit, and she packed it into her luggage and carried it back to Brunei.

Saving that for later. We're not throwing this out, we're not throwing this out.

And it's true. Like it's nuts how cheap, you know, fruits and vegetables and even meat. You can get beef for as little as $10 a kilo in Australia. That is unheard of here in Japan or, you know, in many other parts of the world.

Really? So, yeah, that's always one of those things. Obviously, since I got back from Indonesia, I haven't really left the country to go to any other foreign countries, and I've become used to things again. But it is interesting, you go to the supermarket and sometimes you'll see prices on things and you'll be like, jeez, this is so expensive.

But you have no sort of relative understanding of what it's like in other countries, whether it's cheaper there or more expensive there.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think definitely for beef, I mean, beef is like this luxury, like out of all the different common meats, like if it's beef, chicken, pork and even lamb, like beef and lamb would be like right up on that hierarchy of luxury treats that you have once a year or something. But when it's your birthday and there's a rainbow outside at the same time.

Was this in Brunei or in Japan?

I think well, I'd say both. Think about Brunei's got this interesting thing because the Sultan of Brunei actually owns a cattle farm somewhere in the northwest of Australia. So, it's this huge plot of land that's probably bigger than Brunei itself...

He's one of the most- He's one of the richest guys in the world, isn't he?

He- yeah. He's one of them. He used to be- He used to be the richest guy in the world.

That's it. I remember that. You'd always be like, oh, the sultan of Brunei. What's he worth currently? Hold on, let me have a look. Twenty eight billion dollars. Jesus.

Sounds about right.

Okay, so about what? What's that? Maybe a fifth or- Yeah, about a fifth of what Bezos is worth from Amazon. So, not bad...

Yeah.

...He's doing pretty well. Just cattle you reckon, that's what he's been selling, huh.

Oh, it's oil because it's Brunei Shell. Shell is the only oil and petroleum Brand in Brunei and that's owned and run by the royal family or by the Sultan, really.

Yeah.

So, but yeah. Just for in order to get beef for the general public in Brunei at an affordable price, he owns a cattle farm in Australia where, you know, beef is farmed and all of that is for consumption in Brunei.

Wow. Okay.

And it's, you know, we just wouldn't have beef as affordably in Brunei if it wasn't for that.

Because of the land and everything, obviously. You just wouldn't have the amount of space to do it or you'd have to import it from somewhere else.

Exactly. And if you're going to import it, it's going to cost you whatever it does to properly import it, you know, pay the margins, pay the tax and all of that stuff. Right. Whereas because it's the Brunei government, basically that's importing it, you're not paying all that extra stuff.

Wow. So, did you have any other sort of culture shock things whilst you were here in Australia, that you sort of like, whoa, that's way too expensive or oh, my God, you can do that here?

I don't- I think probably the biggest culture shock was how casual and informal people can be.

Yeah.

Even if they're meeting you for the first time.

This would be an interesting point to transition between Japan and Australia, I think, because I have a feeling from my limited experience learning about Japan that it is the very inverse of what Australia is. So, can you, yeah, tell us a bit about that getting used to the informality of Australia and then maybe we can transition over to Japan, we'll go for a jump over the pond and...

Yeah. I got to say, I love that about Australia. I remember going to my university lectures and like the lecturers would literally be just talking to us like we were sitting around a coffee table and having a chat or having a coffee, and they were just that approachable. You could call your lecturers by their first names.

100%. Yeah.

...Could, but you'd- They'd probably not like you very much if you called them anything else.

Oh, yeah, man, that was- Excuse me. That was my experience. They would always be like, Jesus, don't call me Mister or Professor so-and-so or Dr so-and-so, you know, unless it was in a very formal situation where you would say, introducing them, you know, you wouldn't be like, oh, here's Cathe. She's coming up on the stage to give a speech. You'd be like oh, this is Dr. Handerside, she's coming up to talk about so-and-so.

But yeah, it would be one of those things where it's very- It makes us feel uncomfortable when you use those sorts of epithets before our names, because it's almost as if you see us higher than you, and we find that very uncomfortable. We want to be seen as equal, you know, we're on the same level.

Yeah. So- And that's something that I carry with me to this day, like I personally don't feel comfortable being called Mr. Rajaraman and or- My students used to call me Teacher David here in Japan. And that's the direct translation of David Sensei. It's- For me, it's just weird because again, for me, the feeling is I want to be an equal, I don't want to be seen as superior to you.

I am fallible I can make mistakes even as a teacher and I want to be treated and addressed that way. And it happens on social media as well. They'll be like, teacher David. I'm not teacher David. I'm David.

I've had it with quite a few Iranians. They'll call me Dear Peter, teacher Peter, I've had Master Peter and I was like, that makes me feel uncomfortable. Good God. Don't call me Master. You're not my slave. So, yeah. So, did you slide into the informality, the cultural informality in Australia pretty quickly and you got used to it and you felt, oh my God, I can adopt this, and this is part of my personality, and my identity now?

Yeah, absolutely, and I think there's- I mean, Brunei as well it's like the Malay version of that, I think in Brunei people are pretty informal as well. And it's just that we're using the Malay language when we meet for the first time and stuff. So, I was able to adjust to that pretty easily and also just the fact that I had, you know, teachers from Australia when I was in high school and stuff.

I think that kind of primed me and got me ready for that. I wasn't- It wasn't too much of a shock. Like off the top of my head I can't think of much that really was a culture shock. I think- I just kind of found a lot of it easy to accept. Like probably the the biggest departure from Brunei culture was the role of alcohol in society, in Australia.

Is Brunei a Muslim country?

Yeah, Brunei's a Muslim country and alcohol- The sale and purchase of alcohol was outlawed in like the late '80s or early '90s. So, I think it was like a roundabout when I was three or four years old. So, yeah, late '80s and probably like a couple of years after I moved to Australia, the same thing happened with tobacco. So, you could only buy it from outside the country, bring it in limited quantities for personal consumption.

And you could only smoke within closed doors on your own premises, like in your own home. So, you know, over in Australia, everybody drinks and it's like- And I've tried beer, I can't stand the taste or smell of it.

Yeah, it was something I didn't drink until I was probably 23, like legally, I was allowed to at 18, and most boys tend to start a lot earlier than that and they tend to start with something like beer because it's macho and, you know, manly.

But I just, I was always worried about just getting drunk because I saw a lot of my mates acting like dickheads and was just like, I'm a dickhead as it is, I don't need to drink anything to make this worse. I was worried about that. But I remember when I first started, it was- I just hated- I would have mixed drinks because I hated beer, I hated wine, I hated spirits, I just wanted to effectively drink something like Coke and have that-

Have alcohol in it. And then it sort of this transition, right, away from all the sweet things and then eventually you get into ciders and the sweeter dessert wines, and then all of a sudden you're like, oh, I want something bitter, more bitter, you know? So, I finally got into beers probably in my late 20s, and now it's just like, oh, wow, yeah, but it's a take it or leave it thing. I don't really- Yeah, it is interesting.

I always wonder what people from countries where these things are outlawed think it's like when they're legal because, you know, where you would imagine, oh my gosh, like in America with the drugs that are outlawed. Right. You can't do heroin, you can't buy heroin, you can't buy cocaine and people always think, oh man, if these things are legal tomorrow, people are just going to go nuts. Everyone's going to become a heroin addict.

They're going to be on the streets dying. But then say with like cannabis, when they show that they've, you know, legalised that in a lot of places in the US, the consumption is actually not- It doesn't go out of control. And the people who smoke or buy it are the people who were doing so beforehand, not necessarily just mum and dad who are like, finally, it's legal. Let's do it.

You know what? Now you bring that up, I think there might be a bit of a relationship between, if you're already doing or consuming that substance before it's legalised, because I think if you're already doing it and you're not abusing it to begin with, then once it gets legalised, there's going to be no difference to you whatsoever. It's just probably going to be more accessible. Right.

Well, the difference is, finally, I know that the quality is good quality and it's safe for my consumption as opposed to just buying it from some dude in a dark cloak in an alley somewhere who's just like, yeah, trust me, it's fine.

Yeah, but here's what I saw with some of my friends who are from other Muslim countries, some of them from Brunei. They get to Australia, their whole lives they've been told that alcohol is the devil. And like for the first time, they actually get to try it. They go nuts and they go out of control.

Really? I was expecting the opposite where they'd be like, this isn't that good. Boring.

No. They are literally out drinking, getting smashed. Getting smashed, which is like this term that you hear a lot in Australia.

Get drunk.

They were getting, you know, drunk off their faces almost every weekend. Like at best it would be every weekend. At worst it would be every night.

Good God.

And I just couldn't believe it, I'd be like- Like even some of my old friends from Brunei be like, where is- This was the same guy who was super pious...

I'd be thinking, what did you just turn 18? Like most Australians who are children or, you know, teenagers probably act like this for a number of weeks. I don't know if- You can't really maintain it much longer than that, but it tends to wear out pretty quickly. So, it would be weird to see grown adults come to Australia and then just be like it's on. And it sounds like the- That sort of- What would you call it?

The story of like the pastor's daughter who ends up being, you know, promiscuous. So, she's been grown up- She's grown up her whole life with this, you know, heavily religious parent or parents who've said you can't be with boys, you can't talk to boys, you can't hold hands with boys. And then she ends up, you know, incredibly promiscuous later on in life because she's been denied that her entire lifetime.

And it's funny when there's kind of like those two extremes, and I always worry about this with my kids. I'm like, what am I going to have to be self-conscious of and aware of like not being overly protective for the sake of in the long run, they don't go nuts with, say, you know, drug use where you teach them all drugs are bad no matter what, except have these legal ones.

So, never use this blah blah, blah, blah, blah, and then they turn 18 and just go berserk. Or, you know, with sex, you never talk about sex and then all of a sudden they work it out and they're like, oh my God, I found this secret thing that no one's ever told me about, and then they go bananas. So, it is interesting how some people just do that. Right.

Yeah. So, at the same time, like, I've had some of my friends grow up with super strict parents and they grew up fine, like they weren't, you know, they never turned- They never went crazy wild once they finally got their freedom. So, I don't know. I think-

I've heard parents say that, like, every kid is different and like, you know, these friends of mine who have like, let's say two or three kids and I've sat down and talk to them sometimes and I'll be like, do you treat each of your kids differently? Because you know that they're different and they respond to different things. And they'll be like, yeah, of course.

And they'll be like, I'll- In this sort of a situation, I'd treat my son like this, but my older son would be totally different. Okay.

It was interesting growing up with my parents, they were pretty open about these sorts of things and always comfortable talking about whatever. They wouldn't necessarily be like, yeah, go out there and do some heroin, it'll be great, you know, but it would be much more about informed decision making.

So, they would be like, ultimately, we're not you. You have to decide what you're going to do with your life. You gonna do drugs, if you're not gonna do drugs, if you're gonna, you know, go to university, whatever you want to do, you're going to have to do. But just make those decisions based on information that you have thought about and considered prior to making those decisions. Don't just run into things. And, you know, whatever happens, happens.

Yeah, yeah, that- I think- My mom, for example, she was super strongly against alcohol, like at all. There's no such thing as having a wine with a meal. Like that is- Even that is equivalent to getting drunk and beating your wife.

Jesus, yeah, that's one of those things that you just look at, you know, for me, and it's like, one of those is so normalised and I can't imagine ever normalising, yeah, he's just beating his wife, you know. What do you mean? You just do that, right? Like I can't- Yeah. It's so funny that you would see- Because I've obviously grown up in this culture and it's just part of my life. We had the same sort of experience when I went to France in year 11.

So, I would have been 16. In France it blew our mind because here in Australia, alcohol, you can buy alcohol, but you have to be of age. You have to be 18, you have to have ID and typically because of this, you end up with children- Well, teenagers that are- Once they get to like 15, 16, 17, start experimenting with alcohol, someone will buy it for them, they'll go to a party and there'll be older people there drinking and they'll sneak some.

And so, it's pretty common for teenagers to get drunk and, you know, throw up and have these sorts of events. Not a lot, but it happens. And I remember going to France and none of the teenagers behaved like that there. And because they had grown up with parents who were like, oh, you're 14. Do you want a little bit of wine with dinner? You know, so it was just not a big deal.

And I remember one of the girls when we were on this trip, went into a store and just came out with a bottle of vodka. And I was like...

Woah.

...You know, you know, so-and-so, how on earth did you get that? You're 16. And she was just like, they don't ask for ID. They don't care. And then I remember she ended up having, you know, all of the guys and her mates and everything in the room, you know, smashing this vodka one night and the next morning, everyone was like, all the kids were-

We were trying to go through Notre Dame or whatever, and they were all like vomiting in the streets of Paris. And the teacher being like, oh, it looks like everyone got like the flu or something or the stomach bug. And I was like, yeah, it's not that. But it was interesting because the French kids were like, what the hell is wrong with these people? Like- It's like you've never had alcohol before.

And the Australians were like, what the hell's wrong with these French kids? It's like they don't realise they can buy all this alcohol from the store. So, all right. So, that was an interesting sort of segway to moving to Japan. How did you end up doing that? And what was that process like?

Process was pretty simple- Well, simple for me, because I was in the last semester in Australia and I started applying for jobs because I was going to be graduating with my aviation degree. So, I was literally sending out at least maybe 10 applications a day to all sorts of places, airlines, airports, small flight schools and this is in various different countries. I didn't hear back from any of them, like absolutely none.

And around about that time, I met this friend who suggested that maybe I consider teaching English in Japan. And I didn't even know that such an industry existed. I didn't know it was a big deal. And then I thought, yeah, what the heck, you know, if they'll pay for my visa and, you know, pay me enough to survive, then yeah, maybe I'll consider it. So, I applied to a few of these like big- They're called eikaiwa's, like English conversation schools.

And actually, no, you know what, I didn't apply to a few of them. I shortlisted a few and I just applied to one. And this particular one was one of the big ones. And they actually had their interviews in Australia, the US and the UK, basically the countries where they recruited teachers from. So, when I looked at their calendar, they actually had an interview coming up pretty soon in Sydney.

And so, I applied, I got called in for the interview, I went for it and I did well enough that they decided to hire me.

Did you need prior experience or it was just, you just show up and they're like, well, speaks English, let's do it?

Basically, yeah. The only like hard requirements would be you need to speak English well enough on a first language level, basically, and you need to have a university degree in anything. And I think even the university degree is not necessary. It's just so they can sponsor your visa.

Okay.

And so, and that was it. Like, so I was graduating in a few months. So, the degree I checked that box and then with the English, it was my first language. So, I was able to do that as well. I think the other thing they look for is like the general stuff, like is this person- Does this person carry themselves professionally? Do they dress well? Do they speak politely and that sort of thing? But...

Does he drink too much?

Yeah, like basically I didn't pick my nose during the interview, so I got a pass on that.

They told you that at the end, did they? So, they were like oh, man, you did everything right. And fortunately you didn't pick your nose. So, you are hired.

Like those other guys did.

So, what happened? They hired you and then you just were like, all right, start work next week. Let's do this.

Yeah, I was basically, yeah, yeah, let's do this. And I- This was in May, around about May and I graduated in July. So, between then and when I actually moved to Japan, there were just like a number of phone calls for them to find a vacancy. Because they got like, I think it's over two hundred schools across the country.

Oh, wow. Okay.

Well, probably more than that. They're in all the major cities. And there was a recruiter at their main recruiting office in L.A. that I was in correspondence with. So, I think it took a few months for them to, like, look at my profile and kind of find a school and location that would be right for me. I'm not sure if that's actually true. That's what they said. And I think it's just, like you get on-.

You get put on a waiting list and as soon as a vacancy comes up, they're just like, here you go, let's put him there.

We've specially selected this one place for you, which is the only place we need someone right now.

And so, the vacancy was in December. So, I was swapping with a teacher who was leaving around about that time. And this is in a city called Wakayama, it's about a one hour train ride south of Osaka. And it's- It was in December, yeah, so it was between May and December. I was in India for a little bit. I was in Singapore, with my brother, for a little bit, just kind of waiting to get- To figure out where I was going to go.

And in December, packed my bags and went to Japan.

So, what was that process like? You- I mean, I've read a book called Rule Makers, Rule Breakers. I've got it up here so I can remember it. It's by Michele Gelfand. Do you know that one?

No, I haven't heard of it. What's it about?

Tight and loose cultures, and the secret signals that direct our lives. So, effectively she- I've heard her interview quite a few times as well on these topics and it's really interesting because cultures tend to be on this continuum between being very tight, like Japan, where, you know, have these very sort of strict social rules. We do this, we don't do that.

And then loose cultures like Australia, where things are a lot more relaxed and informal at times. And so, sort of all countries kind of follow along this continuum somewhere. So, you've obviously gone from Brunei, which I imagine in my mind is a bit of a tight culture being an Islamic country coming to Australia, which is a very loose culture, and then going to Japan, which is a tight culture again, but obviously a little bit different from Brunei.

What was the experience like, obviously, after adapting to life in Australia and getting used to the culture and the sort of looseness of society and then moving to Japan where things are so different? And it's a completely different language, one of the hardest languages for English speakers to learn.

Yeah, yeah. I think- I didn't really know what to expect because it was my first job and I kind of got a little bit of a brief before going there. They told me that I would be spending a week in training and then get put out, you know, with some other new recruits and then I'd move out to the actual school that I'm working at. That week of training was intense. It was like full working days.

And if you, you know, if you think about them trying to train you to teach English lessons and they're trying to train people who have no experience doing this whatsoever. They're trying to get you ready to go into their schools and basically start teaching lessons from their textbooks and curriculum. What- I didn't realise that a lot of this was exactly the same as how they do everything else in Japan.

But what what was kind of weird for me was, it was so precise and scripted, like they expected the lessons to be scripted. And so, they would train us on, like the flow of the lessons. How many minutes are meant to be spent on each section of the lesson. And the one thing that I wasn't used to at that point was keeping track of time to like in units of that are not five.

So, like typically, right, if you're going to plan something, you would say, I'm going to spend five minutes on this, 10 minutes on that, 15 on something. You'd count in kind of lots of five. Right. But with this, they were like, okay, we're going to spend two minutes on warm up, we're gonna spend three minutes on the first exercise, seven on the next, six on the following one and 13 on the final conversation.

I was like, who is coming up with these numbers?

That would be my question. I'm like, did you guys do empirical studies to work out that this is the most effective way or did you just pull these out of your bum, like are these just pulled out of thin air or...? How did you decide this?

And true enough to the stereotype, the Japanese are extremely religious about keeping time and about punctuality. And they expected that of us in training, they did tell us that, like, when you actually get to the schools, you can deviate from this. But here in training where you've got perfect students, we expect you to be pretty close to those time markers...

Surely that was a lot of stress.

Yeah, yeah, it was. And we'd have to plan out our lesson plans. And in our lesson plans on this A3 piece of paper, they had like little squares for each section of the lesson. They expected us to write out word for word what we were going to say.

Jesus.

Like including, and next, we're going to turn to page 34, and like you would have to write that out word for word and submit that the next day to our trainers. And then they'd be, like they'd have that with them as they're watching you deliver your demo lesson.

Holy moly. I can't imagine doing that. That sounds like a nightmare, just for me personally, because even my video's where I create content, even the podcasts, it's dot points and then I'm just speaking. I'm just free flowing. It's very informal. I'm just enjoying the process. I can't imagine, like reading off a teleprompter and needing to be that precise, it would just stress me out so much.

Yeah, yeah. But it- And it was stressful. Fortunately, the trainers themselves, they were super nice, very supportive, very, very friendly, approachable. And like training itself was intense, it was hard work, but it was fun at the same time. And that, you know, I got to build relationships with these other teachers as well, who all felt like I did because they were new, they were in Japan for the first time.

And we got to explore a little bit on our days off. And when I got to the school, I didn't feel ready at all. But again, the staff at the school, the other teachers I was working with, they were all really supportive and welcoming. But, you know, it was later on spending a little bit more time in Japan I realised that, you know, this is actually part of their culture. Like, they script everything.

They're meticulous about how everything needs to be done methodically. And for me, my perspective on doing any task is you have an outcome and that outcome is the objective. If there is any- It doesn't really matter how you get to that outcome, if you can get to that outcome by a method that gives you the desired efficiency and productivity, then that's mission accomplished.

But in my observation of Japanese culture is, regardless of the outcome, the method matters. The method is- The method for everything is prescribed and you are supposed to follow that method. Even if you get the same outcome, but you made a mistake on the method you will be, you know, for lack of a better term, at least told off for it.

It is such a peculiar culture from our point of view, I think. And they must see us equally as strangely, right. You would imagine the Japanese see the West as sort of like this, what do you mean you can just not follow the rules or not just do this, you know, this set of methods that you have to do to get the thing. I remember, I think we were chatting about hierarchies at workplaces. Right.

And how important you were telling me the positions are for each of the managers and everything, and how they see themselves, and also that you must do what you're expected to do, right, the way you're expected to to do it below each person. And if you don't, even if you succeed, you've effectively failed, right?

Yeah. Yeah. I think that, like along with the whole, like, paying attention to how something is done and that mattering as much as it does, I think what would shock a lot of people in Japan, as well as looking at other parts of the world and be thinking, how can you not have a prescribed plan and strategy for everything you do?

How do these guys accomplish anything?

Improvisation? What the hell is that?

Yeah.

And true enough, when you watch TV here, even reality shows are things that are supposed to be off the cuff, they're actually not off the cuff.

Yeah.

It's so clear that they are scripted. And- How do I put it? There's a lack of authenticity in- like in Japanese reality TV. Even though reality TV in general is scripted, but it's not to the extent that it is here.

What- what are the ways that- I guess- I guess what I wanted to to cover here is that I find a lot of the students who talk to me about wanting to develop confidence when speaking. You know, I'm afraid to speak. I don't want to make mistakes. By and large, they tend to be of Asian origin. They tend to be from countries like China or Japan, where I feel like there are a lot more that tie to cultures. They like, you say they have a certain method to doing something. And so when they go to classes for English, they're so used to sort of being spoon fed. Do this, do this, do this, and then remember all these things, go to the exam, answer the questions, and then you- your- you know, you can speak English. But then when they get off the plane, once they've arrived in Australia, they realise that, you know, interacting with people in the real world isn't like in a classroom where you can just, you know, use lines that you've practised and memorised.

It's actually improvising. Like conversations- like the conversation you're having with me now is all one hundred percent improvised. So I guess my, my point here is what sort of advice do you have as someone who's taught students in in Japan? Who have come from this background of being- you know, they've been raised with this sort of system that then when they get into the real life. Say they've come to Australia and their university and they're studying, it hasn't set them up to thrive. And they kind of have to unlearn that system. What's the kind of advice that you would give them for for doing well and being able to start speaking with confidence?

It's not- it's not profound advice, and it's probably not going to be as easy as it sounds, but it's- it's to stop- stop caring. I understand, having been here, how much pressure they can be- there can be about, what- when it comes to not making a mistake. And mistakes here, even if it's a small one, are taken seriously.

Every mistake is taken seriously and is- and there can be, in my opinion, I think, an overreaction when someone is being disciplined for even a tiny little slip up. And I think- and even with with English, the way it's taught here, it's mainly just a subject in school, right? You're preparing to take an exam. And so it's all about writing the correct answer. And if you don't put in those in that blank, if you don't write on that piece of paper, the prescribed expression or phrase, even if it's like one word off, you will lose marks. If you write something that is grammatically correct- actually heard about this happening to the daughter of a foreign and English teacher here in Japan. So it's her first language. She speaks English, right. So the level of English that she's being taught at school is super easy. On an English test. She wrote an answer, which is perfectly correct. If anything, it is more correct and more natural than what the actual prescribed answer was. She got marked down for it, and that's the only reason why she didn't get a perfect score. I can't remember what the actual sentence was, but it was something ridiculous.

It wasn't what they were looking for.

It wasn't what they wanted. And she didn't get the marks for it, even though it was actually correct. And that's what they're brought up with. So I don't- I understand that when they when they get put in real conversation situation, the first thought that comes to mind is "don't make a mistake".

Yeah.

I need to say what the correct expression is in order to communicate. And that's I just stop thinking that way. That's not- that's not the case.

It's communication over perfection, right? Ultimately, you know, if I'm in Melbourne and I come across someone from Japan and I want to talk to them or I'm meeting them for the first time or I'm going on a date with them, I don't give a shit about mistakes that I make. I want to be able to communicate with them. I want to be able to talk to them. And if they make grammatical errors or they use the wrong vocab, if I can understand them, that's a win. That's where you're correct. Like, as long as I can understand you and we can communicate, you won. That's it. That's the goal. Whereas I'm not going to remember if you make a mistake and I'm not going to remember if you get everything right. I'm not- you know, I've met plenty of English students and I've never come home and said to my wife, man, this guy today just made no grammatical errors. I was talking to him the whole time and he didn't make any mistakes. And equally, I've never come home and said, man, I was talking to this one guy and he made this one mistake. And I was like, what a fucking idiot. Like that guy.

So- no one ever does that. No one ever. Does it ever like, say, one hundred percent. That is that is what I would be telling them to. It's just you have to sort of relax, remember, it's about communication and don't stress out. It's not worth the worry. It's not worth the stress. And no one- you're putting it on yourself. No one else is expecting you to be perfect.

I will add one thing, though, I think. If anything, by being too cautious, by just kind of freezing up and making the other person wait till you get your thoughts out can probably frustrate them more than you just trying to communicate and perhaps making a few mistakes, but still getting your message across.

What's the hindrance? Right. You're hindering the communication process by actually overthinking it. It's like you're at your kids at the pool and one of them gets to the top of the diving board and the other kids are all lined up and they're like, just go! Just- just go! Just dive. Just stop thinking about it. Just do it, do it!

It's ok if you belly flop!

I know. And they're just like, let me get down. I want to get down.

So, all right. Finishing up. What were the really positive things that you learnt about Japan that you really love? Do the things that are obviously very different there from from Australia that you were like, man, Australia could totally benefit from from taking these things up, you know, food or cultural practises.

I would say safety is like the number one thing that I love about Japan. You can lose your wallet, lose your phone, your valuables, can drop it somewhere, and you will more likely get it back intact than for it to disappear forever.

Wow.

And in Australia, that doesn't happen. I mean, yeah, people are honest and they have integrity for the most part. But if you drop your phone somewhere, you're not getting that back.

That's going to fall into someone's hands through the line somewhere. Even if someone does say, oh, man, I'm going to make sure this gets back to the person- that's going to get to someone's head on Tuesday, they're going to be like "keeping it" or "I can't be bothered dealing with this" and just throw it away.

Or even if you drop your wallet, if you do get it back, it's going to be empty.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. What are you trying to say, dude?

But that's not that's not to say because- I know it's early, but that's anywhere else in the world.

Yeah. Yeah, pretty much.

But here here in Japan, it's it's just not like that at all.

Well, that-.

People will-.

It's the good side of the 'oni' culture. Right. Of where it says something very positive about you- culturally, that you see yourself as you do the right thing no matter what. It can be very uncomfortable, but you do the right thing. And Australia has that to some degree. But there's also the "Ehh, she'll be right. I can't be bothered."

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So it's yeah, that's- I'd say that's the number one thing I love about Japan, it's- it's not- and just how safe it is, you can actually go out at night. Go through the dark alleyways, the shady parts of town, and not get stabbed or not get into a fight. Not- not have a beer glass broken over your head for no reason. The worst thing that- I've literally had this conversation with some of my students. Like I'd talk to them about this- some part of town, and they'll be like, oh, you shouldn't go there late at night. It's dangerous. Like they literally use the word dangerous and I'll be like, oh, what could happen? They would be like, some random person might talk to you.

Like- one time this one person lost their wallet, never got it back.

Yeah, but even that wouldn't happen. Like if you did drop your wallet there you would actually still get it back, you know.

I wonder if they would have done studies on that. There must be studies where they've they've literally gotten, you know, 50 wallets. They put money in it and then they just drop them in different cultures around the world and then say "how many of these get returned?".

Yeah, that would be an interesting study. I'd love to see what happens.

It is funny to sort of finish up here that- I have a- I did a video on culture shock in Australia, and one of the points that I made in this video was that you could walk around at night and it's really safe. And I remember the amount of backlash that I got from from Australian women in particular, who- rightly would say, well, you're a man, you know, so you don't have to worry. Like, we have to worry if we're going out at night.

Which, you know, is a fair point. But then it was really interesting to hear from all of the foreigners who were like, "What're you smoking? He's dead on. Have you been to Brazil?" Like, you can't just- because- it doesn't matter who you are. You can't just walk around at night time in a park. What are you smoking? Whereas in Australia you can do that. And yeah, people have been murdered and, you know, horrible things have happened. But it's not like that's happening on a daily basis. And so it is really funny that it's kind of like you- when you're in the country, you see the culture is much more dangerous than than objectively it is. And other people who come to the country like Australia say it is the opposite sort of thing.

So it is- it is really funny where two people are looking at the same thing, but they're saying different things. Right? It's like that dress online or whatever. Is it blue and yellow or white and black or, you know, that optical illusion?

Yep.

So, yeah, it is interesting. One last question. What was it like learning Japanese? Because that sounds like it would have been quite a task.

Yeah, it's tough, man. The thing is, I haven't really applied myself, I should I should have, over the years. For me, I just learnt to- through conversing with people here and I had to. Otherwise I wouldn't be able to get- to get through my daily tasks. And I wouldn't be having any friends. So- and I found that pretty easy to- to get my head around their grammar because it's so similar to Tamil. So there's- there's a whole bunch of times where I've been unable to directly translate something word for word from Jap- between Japanese and English, but I am able to do that between Japanese and Tamil, like the word order is the same.

It's funny how your brain obviously finds shortcuts and just says, "Oh man, ok, well, Tamil's like this. Boom, that's similar Japanese. So I'll just go that route."

Yeah, I mean, it's not that- it's not that I actually translate in my head. I don't- like, I am able to think in Japanese and I reached that level, I think, in about a year to two years, somewhere around that range.

But the hardest thing about it is the reading and writing. Because they use the Chinese characters, every word has its own character. So you can't just sound something off and read it. If you never learnt that word, you see it, you're not even going to be able to look it up because you can't pronounce it in the first place.

You're fucked.

Yeah.

I always wondered that with languages that use characters, you know, what is the equivalent of a spelling mistake? And yeah, you can't sound out these sorts of words. It's a spelling mistake, I imagine, would be that you use a wrong stroke or something and it means something else or it doesn't mean- it is the same thing, but it's just not 100 percent correct. Whereas in English obviously you can- spelling mistakes aren't that you just write a different line on the paper. You'll use the wrong letter. Or you'll add letters when they shouldn't be, and everything. And one of the funny things bad English is I didn't appreciate this until I started speaking English. I wonder how much we, as a language, because we're not phonetic, at least most of the time.

Yeah.

Have much more trouble with spelling, especially too, because of on top of that we have the schwa. Right. So you have to- have these words with emphasis on different syllables and the syllables without the emphasis where it's reduced and there's a schwa can have effectively any vowel sound or combination of vowels that are just sort of disappeared.

And so I wondered how much- poor, I remember thinking I was so dumb in school because I was always making "independent" "independant". Does it end with an "ent" or an "ant". You know, that that sort of thing where you would just be like, oh my God, like, how do I not know this? And it's because it's a freakin schwa. So it just always blew my mind. But yeah, in Japanese, obviously you don't have that, right? If you're using the- is it the kanji, not the characters but the other, the other-.

The phonetic script?

Yeah. Because that's one hundred percent phonetic. Right. So they just- there's no way you would ever make mistakes, I imagine.

Correct, because they- they are phonetic, so that does make it a lot easier, but it's so rarely used. Like most things you write would be written, would have to be written in kanji anyway.

Cause it's just shorter and easier to do that, is it?

It's easier to do that. It's the correct way. And we talked about how the method is important.

Yeah.

I mean, you could if you wanted to write everything in hiragana, which is the phonetic script, it wouldn't be seen as professional. Your work of writing wouldn't be acceptable in an academic context and that sort of thing.

Man, imagine if you tried to learn Mandarin Chinese now. Because I know that the characters- well, actually it would probably have to be Cantonese because they use the classical Chinese characters and I know the Japanese got it from them.

But imagine that mind- mind bending- having to, say- I imagine a lot of the characters are the same, but I can imagine there are very many exceptions.

Yeah, yeah. I can't imagine having to learn Chinese, but I think eventually when I get my head around kanji, which I have to over the next few years, because I'm working at this- as a car mechanic now and I'm in training. I'm basically- I'm an apprentice, so I have to take some written exams to get my licence.

Yeah.

And so, um, basically I'm trying right now to to learn the written kanji, learn to write kanji because I have to write paragraphs on the exam. When I get my head around that, I might actually try my hand at Chinese.

Just a glutton for punishment, dude. Far out. Well, David, I've kept you forever. Now, where can people find out more about you and follow you? Because you well, I assume you're still teaching English online or you sort of- sort of gone off that now because you're a mechanic?

No, I am. I do still teach English online. You can find out about me and all my social media stuff on www.speaklikedavid.com.

Yeah. Brilliant. So easy. Just go a website. Go there, guys. Check him out and follow him on on Instagram for sure. Well, David, thank you so much for joining me. And we'll have to have you on again.

Cheers. Hey, thank you for having me. Have a great day.